House of Lords Journal Volume 6
22 June 1644

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 22 June 1644', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 6: 1643 (1767-1830), pp. 600-603. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37550 Date accessed: 16 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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DIE Sabbati, 22 die Junii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Tuckney.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. North.
Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Dacres.

Message from the H. C. with a Vote for bringing in 10,000 more Scots.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by John Glynn Esquire, Recorder of the City of London, and others:

To let their Lordships know, that they are informed of the great Pressures which the Counties of Northumb. Cumb. and Westm. &c. suffer under the Enemy; and considering the Engagements the Scotts Army is in before Yorke, and the Inconveniency which will come to the City of London and the Southern Parts for Want of Fuel, if some speedy Course be not taken for reducing the Town of Newcastle to the Obedience of the Parliament: For preventing of these Things, the House of Commons have passed a Vote, wherein they desire their Lordships (fn. *) Concurrence; videlicet,

"That the Forces already raised, and in raising, in the Kingdom of Scotland (being, as is reported, about Ten Thousand), be invited forthwith to come in, for our Assistance."

Ordered, That this House agrees with the House of Commons in this Vote.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees with the House of Commons in this Vote, for inviting the Ten Thousand Scotts forthwith to come in, for our Assistance.

Hobbard's Protection.

The Earl of Holland's Letter to the Speaker, concerning taking off his Protection from Nathaniell Hobbard, in the Cause of Raven's Heir, was read.

(Here enter it.)

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, and others:

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance concerning the associating the Counties of Oxon, Bucks, and Berks.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Ordinance into present Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from the H. C. with Two Ordinances.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Greene and others;

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in Two Ordinances:

1. Concerning the settling the Payment of the Lord General's Army, and Sir Wm. Waller's Army.

(Here enter it.)

Read Thrice, and Agreed to.

2. An Ordinance concerning the paying Twelve Thousand and Three Hundred Pounds to the Lord General's Army, advanced by the Commissioners of the Excise. (Here enter it.)

Read Thrice, and Agreed to.

Letter from the L. General.

The Speaker acquainted this House, "That he hath received a Letter from the Lord General;" which was read, as followeth: (Here enter it.)

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore; and to the Speaker of the Honourable House of Commons."

Ordered, To be communicated to the House of Commons, at a Conference.

The Answer to the last Message was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agrees to both the Ordinances now brought up.

Message to them, for a Conference about the Letter from the L. General.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett:

To desire a Conference, concerning a Letter received from the Lord General, directed to both (fn. *) Houses.

Lady Joselyn and Lady Leventhorp's Children.

The Earl of Northumb. reported to this House, "That the Lady Joseline is willing to pay the Money, according to their Lordships Order, for the Use of the Children of the Lady Leventhorpe:" Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Money be paid into the Hands of the Clerk of the Parliament, there to remain until this House gives further Directions for disposing of it, according to the former Order of this House; and because the Money is in the Country, it is Ordered, That an Order of this House be granted, for the permitting of it to be safely conveyed to London: And it is further Ordered, That the Lady Josseline be kept harmless and indemnified, by virtue of this Order, for paying the said Money in accordingly.

Raylton's Petition, concerning the E. of Strafford's Assessment.

Upon reading the Petition of Will'm Raylton; shewing, "That whereas the Petitioner hears of an Intendment to tax the Right Honourable Wm. now Earl of Strafford for his Twentieth Part; and the Petitioner conceiving that, if any such Thing be, it is to be done by your Lordships, or by a Committee of the House of Peers (and not elsewhere), the said Earl being a Peer of this Kingdom: His humble Suit in Behalf of the said Earl (who hath been above these Fourteen Months past in Foreign Parts by Licence of this Honourable House) is, That, before such Assessment be made, you will vouchsafe to hear what may be fit to inform your Lordships Judgements concerning the said Earl's Estate."

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Agent of the Earl of Strafford shall be heard before he be assessed.

Committee to prepare Heads for a Conference on the L. General's Letter.

Ordered, That the Earls of Pembrooke, Lyncolne, the Lord North, and the Lord Willoughby, are appointed to consider what is fit to be said at the next Conference, upon the receiving of the Lord General's Letter.

Coventries Petition.

Ordered, That these Lords following are appointed to consider of the Coventries Petition, and report their Opinions to this House:

Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Howard.

Any Three, to meet on Monday Morning next, at Nine of the Clock.

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Lords Leave to be absent.

Ordered, That the Lord Hunsdon hath Leave to be absent from this House for Fourteen Days, upon his own Occasions.

Ordered, That the Lord Grey hath Leave (fn. *) to be absent until Tuesday next.

The Committee reported what the Committee hath drawn up to be offered at the Conference with the House of Commons, which was read:

Heads for the Conference on the L. General's Letter.

"That it be propounded at a Conference, That the Lords do conceive, that, in respect of the Reasons alledged by my Lord General in this Letter to both Houses, and that he is now so far advanced into the West, and also that the House of Commons have disposed of the Pay of the Armies suitable thereunto; that it is fit the Lord General should advance, and follow those Advantages he hath for the Recovery of the West, and preventing the Association of those Western Counties, the raising of Forces, and levying of Money in those Parts."

Resolved, upon the Question, That this be delivered at the Conference with the House of Commons.

Report concerning the Method of giving Audience to The States Ambassadors.

The Earl of Lyncolne reported, "That the Committee of Lords have met with the Committee of the House of Commons, concerning The States Ambassadors; and they offer to their Lordships their Opinion; videlicet,

"Resolved, That it is the Opinion of the Committee, That Sir Oliver Fleming, Master of the Ceremonies, shall repair unto The States Ambassadors, to let them know, that the Houses do expect that they make their Demand of Audience in Writing; with which Writing if the Houses rest satisfied, it is the Opinion of the Committee, That Audience shall be given to the Ambassadors in each House apart."

Ordered, That this House approves of this Opinion of the Committee; and that a Message be sent to the House of Commons, to let them know, that this House approves thereof; and that, if they do likewise approve of it, that Sir Oliver Fleming may have Directions forthwith to put the same into Execution.

And accordingly, for this Purpose, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett.

E of Holland's Letter, about his Protection to Hobbart, complained of in Raven's Suit.

"My Lord,

"I have, by the Favour of my Lords, seen a Petition of James Raven's, that hath been presented to their Lordships, and likewise their Answer, very graciously in the Manner of it expressed towards me. My Lord, I do humbly beseech you to represent unto their Lordships what hath passed concerning this Business; it is more than a Year since that a Petition was delivered to their Lordships to this Purpose, at which Time I told them, that this was the only Protection that I had given to any; and that I was ready, if their Lordships pleased, to re-call it; but I had informed myself that Mr. Hubbert was willing to pay, though this was none of his own Debt, his Part of the full Principal, it amounting to about, or something above, a Hundred Pounds; a Gentleman of very good Condition and Fortune, much more able than himself, being likewise bound for this Debt. This my Lords thought very fair and reasonable of Mr. Hobert's Part, and recommended the Performance of it to my Care. Upon the which, I sent to those Persons employed for young Raven, to whom Mr. Hobard very readily did offer to lay down this Money, and to leave him free, with the Bond in his Hands, and with the Advantage of the Execution to recover the other Part from that Gentleman that was bound with him; but, not being able to agree it upon the First Meeting, I essayed several Times to do it. But truly, my Lord, I found those Persons that dealt for Raven not willing to accept of that from Mr. Hobert that I should have done; they treating, and pretending to have it in their Power to compound with him. But, when I found I could not compose it between them, I made a Report unto my Lords what had passed in it, and that I was ready howsoever to recall my Protection, if their Lordships believed it fit; but they were so little satisfied with the Proceedings of these Persons, and did believe Mr. Hobert's Part to be so reasonable, the Debt not being his own, as they would not advise me to re-call this Protection: But, since it is again stirred, though by what I have observed rather to vex, than to receive any Advantage from this poor Gentleman in the low Condition of his Fortune, I am very ready to re-call this only Protection that I ever gave; especially finding what is my Lords Sense upon it, which I shall at all Times obey before my own; desiring their Lordships to believe likewise, that, as this Cause concerned an Orphan, I have looked upon it with such Tenderness, as my Part hath been, I am confident, more to oblige and relieve him in this Business, than these Persons that prosecute Mr. Hobert. I beg your Lordships Pardon for this long Relation, and rest,

"My Lord,

This 20th of June.

"Your most humble Servant, "Holland.

"For the Right Honourable the Lord Gray of Warke, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore."

Commissioners of Excise to reimburse themselves 12300 l. advanced for the L. General's Army.

"Whereas John Towse Esquire, Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Commissioners of Excise and new Impost, have, for and towards the next Month's Pay of the Lord General's Army, advanced the Sum of Twelve Thousand Three Hundred Pounds, before the same, in the Course of the ordinary Receipts, could come in: Be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the said Commissioners of Excise shall and may reimburse themselves of the said Twelve Thousand Three Hundred Pounds, or so much thereof as they shall disburse of their own Monies, out of the First Receipts and Income of the Excise, any other Ordinance or Ordinances whatsoever to the contrary in any Wife notwithstanding; and the said Sum of Twelve Thousand Three Hundred Pounds is hereby Ordained to be paid unto Sir Gilbert Gerrard Knight, Treasurer at Wars, for the Use aforesaid, whose Receipt shall be a sufficient Discharge unto the said Commissioners of Excise."

Ordinance for settling the Payment of the L. General's and Sir William Waller's Armies.

"Whereas, by a Commission from the Lord General, Sir Will'm Wall'r was appointed to lead an Army into the Western Parts, for reducing those Counties to the Obedience of the King and Parliament; and whereas it hath so happened, that the Lord General is himself marched into those Parts with the Army under his immediate Command, and Sir Wm. Walt'r is engaged in other Services: It is therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, That the Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds shall be defalked out of the Monies appointed by former Ordinance of Parliament to the Maintenance of my Lord General's Army, [ (fn. *) out of the Excise;] which Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds shall be issued from Time to Time for the Payment of the Army under the Conduct of Sir Will'm Waller, and, in Lieu thereof, the like Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds Monthly shall be paid, for Supply and Maintenance of the Armies under the Command of the Lord General, out of such Monies as shall be raised by the Committee of the Western Counties appointed by both Houses of Parliament; that is to say, the County of Wilts, Dorsett, Somersett, Devon, and Cornwall, together with the Cities of Bristoll, Exeter, and the Town and County of Poole, by virtue of any Ordinance of Parliament within the said Counties, Cities, and Towns; which said Committee are hereby authorized to make Payment of the said Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds Monthly unto the Treasurers of the said Army for the Time being, under the immediate Command of the Lord General, for the Use of the said Army, whose Receipt shall be a sufficient Discharge unto the said Committee and Collectors within the said Western Counties; this Ordinance to continue in Force until both Houses take further Order herein."

E. of Essex's Letter, desiring to proceed Westward with his Army.

Superscribed thus,

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore, and the Speaker of the Honourable House of Commons. These.

"Right Honourable,

"I received a Letter, dated June the 10th, signed by the Lord Gray of Warke and the Speaker of the House of Commons, in which the House of Parliament do direct that such a considerable Party of Horse should be sent to Lyme as might raise the Siege, and (that Siege being raised) join with those of Lyme in the Pursuit of the Enemy; and it appears by the same Letter, that both Houses expect that the Pursuit should be effectually continued, for the frustrating of the Enemies settling of an Excise and raising of Men and Monies in these Western Parts: I desire to satisfy the Expectation, and fulfil the Desires, of both Houses of Parliament, and therefore resolve to pursue Prince Maurice and Hopton with my whole Army; for it is impossible that the Settling of an Excise, &c. should be wholly frustrated in these Western Parts with a less Strength than the whole Body of my Horse and Foot, as will appear by these ensuing Reasons:

"First, the Enemy is gathered together again, (fn. *) and stands in a Body within Three Miles of Lyme; no Doubt but that they have certain Intelligence that Four or Five Hundred Men have been drawn off from Lyme since we raised the Siege: I hope they do not hear that we are desired to make a Stand by the Directions of the Grand Committee; yet have Reason to suspect it, because they are so bold as to face the Town again, as is signified to me by the Governor's Letter here inclosed.

"Secondly, I have sundry Troops of Horse engaged already for the Preservation of that distressed but deserving Town of Lyme; and now there are so many Hundred Men drawn off from thence, it is impossible that the Town should be defended, or my engaged Troops come off with Honour, unless I advance with my whole Army.

"Thirdly, Weymouth, Melcombe Regis, and Sarfoote Castle, being now surrendered into my Hand, I must leave some considerable Strength behind me, to preserve them, and block up Portland Men, or else I may lose Weymouth whilst I go to relieve Lyme: You see here's Work enough for a greater Army.

"Fourthly, I am assured by the Lord High Admiral, that the Western Countries will flock in from all Parts to our Body, in case I advance with my Army further West. Plymouth Men will take the Field with Two Thousand Five Hundred Foot and Horse, and fall upon the Rear of the Enemy whilst we charge them in the Front.

"Lastly, It is the unanimous Judgement of the joint Council of War, both by Sea and Land (called upon this Occasion by the Lord High Admiral and myself), that (fn. *) it will be exceeding prejudicial for me to retreat, or once make a Stand; and that my Advance will (in all human Reason, by the Blessing of Heaven) be (fn. †) effectual for the preserving of Lyme, breaking the Enemies Association, and reducing of the West.

"If, after all my sad Consultations, faithful Endeavours, and (by God's Blessing) happy Success, you shall call me back, as One that is not fit to be trusted any further in a Business of such high Concernment, I will come and sit in Parliament; as not knowing any Military Employment worthy of my Presence in any associated County, which is wholly committed to the Care and Trust of some inferior Commander. I have no more to add but this, that though your former Directions could not be observed, yet your Desires have been fulfilled, by

"Your Lordships humble Servant, Essex.

"My Lords, I do forbear to give you an Account of the Ordnance, Arms, and Ammunition in the Towns, because there are Discoveries made every Hour of more and more but what is already is very considerable, and I shall shortly give you a particular Account."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till Monday Morning next.

Footnotes

* Origin. Conveniency.
* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
Origin. effectual.