Mr Sandys's Motion for an Address to the King, for an Account of the Expences incurr'd in consequence of the Vote of Credit pass'd last Session.
Feb. 13. Mr Sandys moved, 'That an humble Address
be presented to his Majesty, that he would give Directions
to the proper Officer to lay before the House an Account of
the Expences incurred, in Consequence of the Vote of Credit passed at the End of last Session of Parliament.'
Debate thereon.
But this Motion was oppos'd by Mr Horatio Walpole,
Mr Henry Pelham, Sir William Yonge, Col. Bladen, Mr
Winnington, and Mr Danvers, who alledg'd, 'That the
House had then before them what was propos'd to be defir'd by the Address moved for; for in one Account they
had the whole of the Expences that had been incurred by
any Addition made to the Sea-Service, in Consequence of
that Vote of Credit; in another they had an Account of
the whole Expences that had been incurred by any Addition
made to the Land-Service; and in a third they had an Account of what had been incurred on occasion of the Treaty
lately concluded with Denmark: Besides all which, they had
an Account of what Monies had been issued from the Treasury, for all or either of these Services in Pursuance of a
Clause in an Act of Parliament, pass'd last Session, for enabling his Majesty to apply any Part of the Money granted
for the Service of last Year, towards the Expence of making
such Augmentations of his Forces by Sea or Land, or of
concerting such other Measures as he should judge necessary
for the Safety of this Nation: That from these Accounts
any Man might easily see what Expences had been incurred,
in consequence of that Vote of Credit; for that as to the
Sea-Service, whatever appeared from that Account to have
been incurred, over and above what was granted by last Parliament, for maintaining the 20,000 Seamen then voted for
last Year's Service, must appear to an additional Expence,
incurred in consequence of that Vote of Credit; And as to the
Land-Service, whatever appeared from the Account then before them, relating to that Service, to have been incurred
over and above what was granted by last Parliament, for
the 17,704 Land-Forces then voted to be kept up in
Great Britain, Guernsey and Jersey, for last Year, must be an
additional Expence incurred, in consequence of that Vote of
Credit; And as to what had been incurred on Occasion of
the late Treaty with Denmark, it was certain the whole
was to be placed to the Account of Expences incurred, in
consequence of that Considence, which was so reasonably
vested in his Majesty in the last Session of Parliament. So that
they could not possibly expect any farther or new Accounts
by the Address proposed; and the presenting of such an
Address would, in their Opinion, shew a want of Respect to
his Majesty, and a sort of Jealousy and Diffidence in what
he had already ordered to be laid before them.'
Hereupon Mr Sandys proposed an Amendment to his Motion, by adding thereto the following Words, viz. Over and
above those, of which Accounts had already been laid before
the House; and was supported by Mr Pulteney and Sir William Wyndham: But the Members who opposed the Motion
as first proposed by Mr Sandys, objected likewise to the Amendment offered. 'That it was not to be supposed that any
other Expences had been incurred, than those contained in
the Accounts then before them: That they could assure Gentlemen, that no Money had been issued from the
Treasury, by Virtue of the Clause they had mentioned, but
what was stated in the Accounts already laid before the
House; nor had any Expences been incurred but what
were contained in the three Accounts relating to the SeaService, the Land-Service, and the late Treaty with Denmark: That the presenting of such an Address was really in some manner provoking the Crown to make farther
Demands upon them: And that if what was then proposed
should come to be a Precedent, it would become necessary
for the Crown to add a Certificate to every Account to be
given in hereafter to Parliament, certifying, That these are
all the Expences that have been incurred, or some such
Words to that Purpose, which they thought would lock a
little absurd: That therefore they could not agree to the
Amendment, but when it was disagreed to, as they hoped it
would, they would propose that the following Words should
be added, by way of Amendment to the Motion, viz. Notwithstanding that full Accounts of all Expences, that had
been incurred, had been already laid before that House: That
this was the most natural Amendment that could be made
to the Motion, because, by the Addition of these Words, it
would appear in its proper and true Light, and in that
Light they were persuaded the House would not agree
to it.'
To this it was answered by the Members, who were for
the Motion, 'That they could not but think that the Motion, as it stood at first, was a very proper Motion, because
it would be much better and more distinct, to have all these
Expences fairly and fully stated in one Account, than to
have them dispersed in several Accounts, and consounded
with a great many other Articles: That this Method of
stating those Expences would be attended with this Advantage, that it would clearly shew to Gentlemen, how sparing
his Majesty had been in making use of that unlimited Credit
given him the last Session, which would be a great Inducement to that House to renew that Credit, whenever his
Majesty should please to demand it: This they thought the
honourable Gentlemen would not have obstructed, because
it might perhaps be of great Advantage to them upon some
future Occasion; but as those Gentlemen did not seem to
like that Way of stating the Account, therefore they were
willing to make the Amendment proposed to their Motion,
in order to prevent a Negative's being put upon a Question
of such Moment: That they hoped no Expences had been
incurred, in consequence of that Vote of Credit, but what
appeared upon the several Accounts then before them; but
it would be a great Satisfaction to the House, to have a direct Answer upon that Subject from the Crown; for tho'
they were persuaded that the Gentlemen, who had taken
upon them to assure the House that no other Expences had
been incurred, or Money issued, but what were contained in
these Accounts, really believed it to be as they had declared;
yet in such Cases that House was not to take an Answer from
any Member, for were he the greatest Subject in the Nation,
his Word or his Declaration was no Parliamentary Satisfaction, nor could it be taken as such: That with respect to
the Certificate mentioned, it was in the present Case so far
from being absurd, that it was absolutely necessary: When
certain Sums were granted by Parliament, and those Sums
appropriated by Parliament to certain Uses, such a Certificate would, 'twas true, be quite unnecessary, it would be
ridiculous to insist upon any such; but when an unlimited
Credit had been granted by Parliament, and that Credit
unlimited likewise as to the Uses it was to be applied to,
it was absolutely necessary to have a Certificate in the Manner mentioned by the honourable Gentlemen, certisying that
such Sums, and no more, had been taken up on that Vote
of Credit; and that the Sums so taken up had been applied
to such Uses, and none other: For, without such a Certificate,
it would be impossible for that House to know how the
Accounts of the Nation stood; they could not know but
every succeeding Year might bring a new Demand, to provide for some Expence incurred, or some Debt contracted,
in consequence of the unlimited Credit they had formerly
given: That therefore it was incumbent upon them, as
Members of that House, to demand such a Certificate; they
were bound in Honour, and in Duty to their Constituents,
to insist upon having such a Certificate, and such a Certificate could not be had any other Way than by presenting
the Address proposed: That as to the Amendment intended
to be added by the worthy Gentlemen, in order to make
their Question appear ridiculous upon the Journals of that
House, it did not at all deter them from insisting upon their
Question, nor from insisting upon the Amendment they had
proposed: That they had no Cause to suspect, that that
House would agree to the Amendment intended by the worthy Gentleman; but if they had, it would give them no
Pain; for whatever that House might do, the World without Doors would judge rightly, and would fix the Ridicule
where it properly belonged: That they would, upon that
Occasion, put the Gentleman in mind of what appeared
upon their Journals: They remembered a certain great Man
was, in a former Parliament, accused of some very high
Crimes, and a Question was actually moved and seconded
in that House for a Resolution in these Terms, 'That it
appears to this House, that such a great Man [naming him]
had been guilty of several heinous and fraudulent Practices, &c.' That this was the Question as first moved;
but the Friends of that great Man, in order to defeat the
Question by rendering it ridiculous, proposed that the Words,
it appears to this House, should by way of Amendment be
left out of the Question: That upon a Division this Amendment was approved of by a corrupt Majority, and that the
Question, so made ridiculous by the Amendment, stood to
that Day upon their Journals, as the worthy Gentlemen
might see if they pleased; but that the thus rendering the
Question ridiculous, was far from rendering ridiculous those
who had at first proposed it: On the contrary, the Ridicule
fell upon those, who made the Question ridiculous by their
Amendment; and accordingly at the Elections for the very
next Parliament, most of them were neglected by their
Country, and justly refused the Honour of continuing any
longer the Representatives of the People in that House.'
The Question being at last put upon the Amendment, it
was carried in the Negative, by 167 to 106.
Debate concerning the Number of Land-Forces, for the Year 1735.
Feb. 14. The House being in a Grand Committee on the
Supply, Mr Andrews mov'd, That the Number of effective
Men, to be provided for Guards and Garrisons in Great
Britain, Guernsey and Jersey for the Year 1735, be 25,744,
including 1815 Invalids, and 555 Men for the Service of
the Highlands. Mr Andrews's Motion was supported by
Sir William Yonge, Col. Bladen, Mr Winnington, Mr
Horatio Walpole, and Sir Robert Walpole, as follows:
Sir,
'Though we are not as yet any way engaged in the present War, yet such Events may happen, as may make it
absolutely necessary for us to engage of one Side or the
other. The Affair of Poland, which is the only Motive,
the only Bone of Contention hitherto publickly avowed, is
an Affair this Nation has very little to do with; but if that
should appear not to be the real Motive, or if Success should
encourage either Side to extend their Views, the Balance of
Power may at last be brought into real Danger; and then,
for the Sake of preserving the Liberties of Europe, upon
which the Liberties of this Nation will always depend, we
must take a principal Share in the War. This Danger may
not perhaps be so remote as some People imagine; which has
made his Majesty become a Mediator for reconciling the contending Powers, before Conquests of either Side shall take
away all Hopes of Success in that Way; and his Majesty
has already pushed his Negociations with so much Vigour,
that a Plan of Peace will soon be offer'd; a Plan so well adapted to the Honour and Interest of all Parties concerned, that
whoever refuses it will thereby shew, that their secret Views
are more extensive than they have hitherto been declared.
'From hence, Sir, I must conclude, that we shall be
very soon able to determine, whether we must engage in
the War or not: If that Plan be accepted, then we shall
attain our Ends; the Peace of Europe will be restored, the
Balance of Power will be preserved, without our engaging
in the War, without subjecting this Nation to any Inconvenience, or to any Expence; but if reasonable Terms should
be haughtily rejected by either Side, we must then necessarily take a Share in the War. It is therefore very much
our Interest at present, to take every Measure that may contribute towards rendering his Majesty's Endeavours successful;
that may contribute towards inducing, or even compelling,
every one of the contending Powers to accept of that Plan,
which his Majesty, in Conjunction with his Allies, is to
offer to them: And, in my Opinion, nothing can contribute
more towards these great Ends, than our having such a
Standing regular Force, as may convince all Parties that
we are in earnest, and that we have it in our Power to
alter the Scale whenever we have a Mind. For this Reason I can hardly imagine, that any Gentleman in this House
will oppose the small Augmentation of our Land-Forces
now proposed, when he considers how many Millions we
may be obliged to expend, if, by refusing such a seasonable Expence, we should at last make it necessary to involve
ourselves in a heavy War.
'The Prosperity of this Nation, Sir, or at least our Security, depends upon the Tranquility of our Neighbours:
While they are at Peace, they will always consume more of
our Manufactures than when they are involv'd in Blood and
Confusion; and consequently we shall always, in Times of
Peace, have a greater Demand for the Manufactures of our
Country than in Time of War. Besides, while they continue
at Peace, the Balance of Power can be in no Danger, but the
Events of War no Nation can depend on; and therefore
this Nation among the rest, may be deeply affected by the
extraordinary Success of any one Power in Europe. Let us
not therefore grudge a small Expence, when it may evidently contribute towards restoring Peace among our Neighbours, upon which our own Prosperity and Security does and
always must depend.
'Our House is not as yet on Fire, but our Neighbour's is
all in a Flame; and then certainly it is Time for us to prepare the Engines necessary for preserving our own: These
are a powerful Fleet, and a sufficient Body of regular well
disciplined Troops, ready to march at the first Word of
Command. This, Sir, will give Weight to his Majesty's
Negociations, it will make all the Parties concerned give a
due Attention to what may be proposed, by his Majesty's
Ministers, for restoring the Peace of Europe; for a Minister,
whose Equipage consists of a large Body of good Troops,
will always be better hearkened to, than one whose Equipage consists only of a great Number of fine Pages and
useless Footmen.
'By agreeing to the Augmentation proposed, we may
expect, Sir, that the Parties now at War will be prevented
from forming any ambitious Views, either against this Nation or against the Balance of Power; and if any such
Views have already been formed, the Projectors will find
themselves under a Necessity of laying them aside; by which
Means we shall be able to restore the Peace of Europe,
and establish the future Security of this Nation, without exposing ourselves to the Inconveniences, the Misfortunes and
the doubtful Events of War. From a contrary Behaviour,
let us consider what we are to expect: Will not France and
her Allies from thence conclude, that they may go on and
conquer; that they may place upon the Imperial Throne a
Prince of the House of Bourbon; and that England is not
now, as formerly, apprehensive of the growing Power of
France, or concerned about the Preservation of a Balance
of Power in Europe. These are Conclusions which, I am
sure, no Englishman ought to give them an Opportunity to
make; for the Continuance of the War is a certain Consequence of such Conclusions, and if it should continue, we
must engage in it, or we, as well as the rest of Europe,
must submit to be Slaves to the Conqueror. Thus the Danger of not agreeing to what is proposed, is infinitely great;
but in agreeing to it there is no Danger, and the Expence is inconsiderable: If it procures a Re-establishment of the publick
Tranquility, the Usefulness of it must be acknowledged by
all; but if it should fail of the Effect desired, it will enable
us to join speedily and with Vigour in the War.
'To me, Sir, it is evident, that the small Expence, now
proposed, may prevent an infinite Expence and an infinite
Danger; and therefore I must think we are at present something in the Case of a Gentleman, suppose in the Isle of
Ely, whose Estate is in great Danger of being overflowed
by the Decay of, or some Breach in, those Dykes and
Mounds which were made to prevent Inundations: In such
a Case, suppose the Gentleman's Stewards and Managers
should come to him, and tell him of his Danger; and that
the Dykes might then be repaired for a small Expence, but
that one Flood or two might make such a Breach as would
cost him near the Value of his Estate to repair: Would not
that Gentleman be very much in the wrong, would he not
be mad, not to hearken to such Representations, and put
himself to a small immediate Charge, in order to prevent
the entire Ruin of his Estate?
'Our present Case, Sir, is the very same; one successful Campaign, two or three compleat Victories, would make
such a Breach in those Barriers, by which the Liberties of
Europe are preserved, as would cost an infinite Treasure and
a vast Effusion of Blood before it could be made up. This
is a Danger apparent from the Circumstances publickly
known; but there may be particular private Transactions
concerted, or now carrying on, which would demonstrate
the Necessity of what is now proposed: These his Majesty
may probably have discovered; and from the Experience
we have of his Majesty's great Regard for the Ease of his
People, we may, I think, conclude, that he would not have
proposed to have made any Augmentation of his LandForces, or to have put his Subjects to any additional Charge,
without an evident Necessity for so doing: I hope therefore Gentlemen will depend upon his Majesty's Wisdom and
Conduct in an Affair, which is of such a Nature, as may
render it impossible for his Majesty to lay his particular Reasons before this House, without running the Risk of disappointing all the Measures he has concerned for defeating any
ambitious Projects, that may have been formed; and for restoring the Peace of Europe, and thereby preventing this
Nation's being obliged to engage in the War.'
Mr Andrews's Motion was warmly oppos'd by Lord Morpeth, Mr Gibbon, Lord Noel Somerset, Sir John Barnard,
Sir Joseph Jekyll, Sir William Wyndham, Mr Pulteney,
and several other Members, who gave the following Reasons
against it.
Sir,
'I wish every Gentleman would be more cautious of
bringing his Majesty's Name into every Debate in this House.
I am persuaded, no Gentleman in this House doubts of his
Majesty's sincere Regard for the Ease of his People, or of
his Wisdom and Conduct in all Matters which are honestly
and fairly laid before him: These are Questions which can
never be properly brought before us. Upon this Occasion,
as well as all other Occasions of the same Nature, it is not
his Majesty's Regard for the Ease of his People, but the Regard his Ministers have for the Ease of the People, that we
are to consider; it is their Wisdom and Conduct that are
now under our Consideration: And, in my Opinion, this
House has no great Reason to depend much upon either.
I am sure the Generality of the Nation have no great Confidence in either; and therefore, if we speak the Language
of our Constituents, which I hope will always be the Language of this House, we cannot depend so much upon their
Wisdom and Conduct, as to load the People with any additional Expence, for no other Reason but only because the
Minister has told us it is necessary. This is a Method of
Proceeding, which no Man ought to agree to in any Case;
but especially in a Case which is of the most dangerous Consequence to the Liberties of our Country.
'The honourable Gentlemen, Sir, were very much in the
right to argue from general Circumstances, and such as are
publickly known; for particular Care has been taken that
we should not have any Thing else to argue from: But
if we argue only from such Circumstances, we must conclude,
that we are neither concerned in the War, nor can be concerned in the Event. If we have nothing to do with Poland,
if we are no way engaged to protect the Emperor's Dominions in Italy, surely we have no Concern in the War;
and as to the Event, France has declared they will not pretend to keep any of the Conquests they make: They have declared, they have no Intention to make any Conquests or to
extend their Dominions, but that their only Aim is to establish Stanislaus upon the Throne of Poland; and the other
two Allies have declared, that they have no other View
but to establish and preserve the Neutrality of Italy: These
are the only Circumstances publickly known; and from these
neither this Nation, nor the Balance of Power, can be in any
Danger.
'What particular Reasons we may have not to trust to
those Declarations, I shall not pretend to determine; but
all the other Princes and States of Europe, not already engaged in the War, seem to put their Trust in them, because
none of them have as yet made any Preparations. Nay,
even the Princes of Germany seem to think their Country
in no Danger, for some of the chief of them still continue
neutral; and those who have joined in the Declaration of
War, have great Numbers of Troops unemployed, which
certainly would be all sent to the Rhine, if they thought
their Country were in any real Danger, or that France
had a Design to impose an Emperor upon them. While
they remain so secure, while they give themselves so little
Concern about the Event of the War, why we should be so
terribly frightened, why we should imagine that France has
a Design to conquer Germany, and to place one of the
House of Bourbon upon the Imperial Throne, I cannot comprehend: I am sure no such Intention can be presumed from
any Circumstance yet publickly known; and I hope we do
not think that either Spain or Sardinia has a Mind to conquer Germany, or that France would allow them, if either
or both were able to accomplish such a Design. From publick Circumstances, therefore, I can see no Reason we have
now, or indeed ever had, to put ourselves to any Charge, or
to make any Preparations; and if there be any private Reasons, they must be such as concern us in particular, because, if they related to Europe in general, the other Courts
of Europe, particularly the Dutch, would certainly have
discovered them as well as we; nay, if they had not, it
would have been the Duty of our Ministers to have discovered them, not only to the Dutch, but to all the Princes
of Europe; for whatever Danger there might be in discovering them to this House, there could not surely be any
Danger in discovering them to those Courts, which have
as deep a Concern as we have in the Preservation of the Liberties of Europe.
'As no Part of our late Transactions has ever been laid
before this House, as all such Lights have been denied
us, I do not know, Sir, but there may be private Reasons
for our being particularly concerned in the Event of the present War: If there are any such, they must proceed from
some of our late Transactions; and in that Case, those
Transactions ought to have been laid before this House at
the very Beginning of the War, that we might from them
have seen our Danger, and might have provided for our
Safety in Time. But to insinuate, that either of the Parties
now engaged in War may have ambitious Views against the
Liberties of Europe, is an Insinuation that is contradicted by
the Behaviour of all the Princes and States of Europe not
already engaged in the War; and therefore cannot, in my
Opinion, have any Weight.
'We are next told, Sir, that tho' neither Parcy at present have any ambitious Views, yet they may form such
Views, and in order to prevent their forming any such, we
must make great Preparations; that this will shew them we
are in earnest, and will make them give Ear to the reasonable Plan of Peace which his Majesty, in Conjunction with his
Allies, is to offer: Whereas, if we make no such Preparation, that France will conclude we have lost all Apprehensions of the growing Power of that Kingdom, and
that we have no Concern for the Preservation of the Balance
of Power. For God's Sake, Sir, can Gentlemen be serious
when they argue at this Rate? Can France, or any Power
on Earth, imagine that we will look tamely on, and see the
Liberties of Europe overturned; or can the Addition of 7
or 8000 Men to our Army add any thing to their Dread of
our Power? They all know, and France in particular has
Reason to know, the Strength and Power of this Nation,
when wisely managed and prudently exerted; if therefore
they form any ambitious Views, if they reject the just
Terms of Peace that are to be proposed by his Majesty, or
if they despite the Mediation that has been offered, it cannot
proceed from any Contempt they have of the real Strength
of this Nation, but from a Contempt of the Councils by
which that Strength is to be exerted: This is a Contempt
which, I am afraid, they have already conceived; and if
we should agree to the Proposition now before us, without
seeing Reason for so doing, I am sure either the Wisdom or
Integrity of this House will suffer considerably, in the Opinion of the World both abroad and at home.
'Another terrible Thing we are this Day taught to apprehend, is, that Success may inspire one of the Parties engaged in War, with an ambitious View of overturning the
Balance of Power: That two or three complete Victories may
make it absolutely necessary for us to engage immediately in
the War; and that therefore we ought to prepare in Time,
that we may be ready to fly to the Relief of the Unfortunate, before they are quite overwhelmed: Upon this, Sir,
I shall only ask if any Gentleman in this House can imagine,
that Germany, Poland and Muscovy, for I think I may now
say they are united, can be conquered in one Campaign;
or supposing the other to be the unfortunate Side, can they
imagine that France, Spain and Italy can be conquered in
one Campaign? If any Gentleman can imagine such a
Thing, with him I shall not pretend to argue; but with
those who cannot, which I believe are the Majority of this
House, I think I may contend that neither Side can in one
Campaign be reduced so low, but that the united Force of
Great Britain, Holland, Denmark, and Sweden, thrown in
early the next Campaign, will be sufficient for their Relief,
and for obliging the proudest Conqueror to submit to reasonable Terms; in which Case we shall have the whole
Winter to prepare, and till then 'tis certainly quite unnecessary to put ourselves to any Expence.
'As this Day seems to be a Day of Paradoxes, among
the rest we have been told one with respect to our Trade.
We are told, Sir, that the Prosperity of this Nation depends
upon the Tranquility of our Neighbours; and that in Times
of Peace, there is always a greater Demand for the Manufactures and Produce of this Country, than in Time of War.
This, Sir, is so far from being a just Maxim in Trade,
that the direct contrary is true. The chief Part of the Produce of this Country consists in the Necessaries, and not
the Luxuries of Life; and consequently our Neighbours will
always consume as much of such Sort of Things in Time
of War as in Time of Peace: But the Difference is, that
when their Heads are not distracted, nor their Hands diverted, by any foreign or domestick War, they have Time
to apply themselves to Tillage; they have Time to apply
themselves to Manufactures of all Kinds; they have Leisure
to think of and to improve all the Arts of Peace; and by
so doing they furnish themselves at home with a great many
of those Necessaries which, in Time of War, they are oblig'd
to purchase of us. This is not only evident in Theory, but
is confirmed by Experience; for our Trade has suffered
more by the Domestick Improvements made by our Neighbours, during the last long Tranquility in Europe, than it
has done by any other Means; except the heavy Duties we
have laid upon ourselves, and the great Trouble and many
Fees and Perquisites we have subjected our Merchants to,
both in importing and exporting their Goods and Merchandize: These Incumbrances will in Time most certainly ruin
every Branch of our Trade, if we do not take Care to remove them speedily, by paying off those Debts by which
they have been occasion'd. And as to our Security, it can
never be disturbed by any Broils among our Neighbours,
unless the Balance of Power should be brought into real
Danger, which our Neighbours upon the Continent would
take better Care of than they do, if we did not upon
all Occasions shew ourselves so mighty officious as to do it
for them.
'It is an easy Matter, Sir, for any Man, who has a quick
Invention and a strong Imagination, to form imaginary Dangers. In Time of Peace we are frightened with Invasions,
because our Neighbours have their Troops quartered upon
their Coasts, and have nothing else to do with them; and in
Time of War, because our Neighbours have great Armies in
the Field, tho' no Power in Europe has any Quarrel with us.
In Time of Peace we must keep up a more numerous Army
than is consistent with the Liberties of a free People, in order to prevent a War's breaking out; and in Time of War we
must add to that Army, and put ourselves to great Expence,
in order to restore the publick Tranquility, and preserve the
Balance of Power, tho' no other Nation in Europe appears
to be in the least apprehensive of its being in Danger. Thus,
Sir, we are always in a Fright, and, for what I know, our
Apprehensions may at last become so extravagant; that if
Angria, the East-India Pirate, should fit out any greater
Number of Grabs than usual, we must fit out a Squadron
and augment our Land-Forces, for fear of his coming to
make an Invasion upon us. By this, Sir, I do not mean
to infinuate that we are now in no Danger; I do not know
but we may: But whatever Danger we may be in, I am
very sure it does not appear from any Circumstances yet
publickly known, nor from any Thing that hath as yet
been communicated to this House; and therefore I cannot
agree to load the People with any new Charge. If the
Danger is such as cannot be immediately communicated,
it must be such as cannot be immediately apprehended; and
if we are only like to be in Danger, we ought to follow the
Example of our wise Neighbours the Dutch, in putting our
People to no Expence, and in reserving our whole Strength
to be vigoronsly exerted against those, whose future Designs
shall seem any way to threaten the Safety of Europe.
'We have been told, Sir, that the Danger of not agreeing to what is proposed is infinitely great; but that in agreeing to it there is no Danger; Sir, in my Opinion, it is directly otherwise. It is certain, that the Regard we are to
expect from Foreigners must always depend upon the Esteem
they have of the Strength of the Nation, and of the Wisdom of those Councils by which that Strength is to be directed. The Strength of the Nation does not surely consist
only in the Troops we have on Foot, or the Squadrons we
have at Sea, but upon the Number of Troops we are able
to raise and maintain, and the Squadrons we are able to put
to Sea. Therefore it is certain that the Adding 7 or 8000
Men to our Land-Forces, or to the Squadrons we have already
fitted out, can add nothing to the Opinion Foreigners have
of our Strength: But the putting ourselves to such needless
Expence, when no Man can say that we are in any real
Danger, will certainly give Foreigners a very mean Opinion
of our Councils. The Armaments we have made can oblige neither of the Sides engaged in War, but may probably
give great Offence, by which we may draw a War upon
ourselves; our Armaments may very probably unite several
of the Powers of Europe against us, while by the Inaction
of those Armaments we may be deprived of every Ally.
'But, Sir, with regard to our domestick Affairs, the Danger is more apparent and much more terrible. The keeping up of a numerous Standing Army, in Time of Peace, is
absolutely inconsistent with the Liberties of this Nation.
The Gentlemen, or at least some of them, who supported
this Motion, talk of an Army of 18,000 Men as always
necessary to be kept up within this Island. This, Sir, is
the true Secret of this Day's Motion; those Gentlemen
know that when Peace is restored, the Nation will insist
upon a Reduction's being made, therefore, think they, let
us now increase the Army, that when Peace is restored we
may stop the Mouths of the Disaffected, (as they call them)
by making a Reduction of the Troops we are now to add:
And thus, Sir, we shall have a Standing Army of 18,000
Men saddled upon us for ever. As I am of Opinion, that
an Army of 18,000 Men is at least 10,000 more than we
ought to have in Time of Peace; as I am of Opinion that
such a numerous Army can be necessary for no End, but that
of enabling a Minister to trample upon the Liberties of his
Country; therefore I think the Motion ought to be rejected
with Disdain.
'As for Ministers, they must not expect Regard and
Esteem from their Equipage, but from the Wisdom and
Address of their Negotiations; for a Minister with a blundering Head, or one that is sent upon ridiculous Errands,
will make as sorry a Figure with an Equipage of regular
Troops, as an Equipage of Footmen; and I am afraid the
Ass's Ears will appear much more conspicuous under a wellburnished Head-piece, than ever they did under a well powder'd Peruke.
'The other Parallel, Sir, that has been drawn is very
much to the present Purpose, if it had been properly related.
We are in the very Case of a Gentleman, who is told by his
Steward and the Workmen employed by that Steward, that
his Estate is in great Danger of being overflowed by the
Breach in those Dykes and Mounds, which, as they say,
were made to prevent Inundations. The Gentleman is surprised at this, knowing that there were never any Dykes
or Mounds made upon his Estate for preventing Inundations,
but what were made by Nature; and that his Estate could
not be overflowed without some artificial Inlets made, or even
Windmills or Fire-Engines prepared and set up for that
Purpose. He answers, you really surprise me, I can hardly
believe there is a Possibility in what you relate; however,
I'll go along with you and examine every Part of my Estate,
and will then take such Measures as may be proper for preventing the Danger: Upon this the Steward and his Workmen are in a Fright, they know that the Inlets were made
or the Windmills set up, either by themselves or by some of
their Master's Neighbours, with their Connivance; and therefore they reply, O Lord, Sir! you must not examine into
Particulars, the Breaches are of such a Nature that if you
but look upon them they will become irreparable; give us
but a small Sum of Money, and an Order for such of your
Tenants as we shall name, to attend and assist us, we can
now easily make up the Breach; but if you delay, or offer to
examine into it, the Reparation will cost you more than the
Value of your Estate: If such a Gentleman should comply
blindly with such a Demand, I am sure, Sir, it must be
granted, that if he was not mad, he was very much under
the Management of his Steward.
'While the Dutch, and all the other States of Europe
not yet engaged in the War, shew so little Concern about it;
while even the Princes of Germany shew so little Inclination
to exert their whole Strength upon the Occasion; I cannot
think the Balance of Power in any imminent Danger: And
if any Danger threatens this Nation in particular, in God's
Name let it be told; when we know what it is, or from
whence it is to be apprehended, we may easily take such
Measures as may prevent it; but do not let us, under imaginary Pretences of distant foreign Dangers, subject our Constitution to a real, an imminent domestick Danger; for what
will it avail us to preserve the Liberties of Europe, if under
that Pretence we destroy our own?'
To this it was replied by the same Members who supported
Mr Andrews's Motion, as follows:
Sir,
'Whatever Advantage we may draw from the Tranquility of others, it is certain we must always draw great and
many Advantages from our own; and it is as certain, that
let the Designs of the Parties engaged in War be at present
what they will, we may be deeply concerned in its Event.
If either the present Designs should be pushed too far, or
new and ambitious Designs encouraged and set up by Success, we must necessarily at last be involved; and this is
what we ought if possible to prevent. This I take to be
the true and only Design of the Augmentation now proposed; it is so small that I cannot look upon it as designed
to engage us in the War, but to prevent our being engaged;
and for this Reason, I think, we may the more easily agree
to it.
'Whether the Balance of Power be now in Danger, or
whether this Nation in particular be now in Danger, is not
the Question before us; but whether both may not be in
Danger by the Event of the present War, and this I really
think can't be made a Question. In such a Case we are
not to be directed by the Behaviour of other States: At least,
I am sure, the Resolutions of this House ought as little to
be regulated by the Example of the Dutch, or of the
Princes of Germany, as they ought to be regulated by the
Advice of our own Ministers. In the War which was commenced before the Death of the late King William, I believe it will not be denied but that the Balance of Power
was really in Danger, and yet, for some Time after it
commenced, the Dutch seemed, to all publick Appearance,
as quiet as they seem at present; the Princes of Germany
seemed as little concerned, nay, some of them actually engaged against the Liberties of Europe, and of their Country. 'Till we declared ourselves, no Prince in Europe would
venture to stir to the Relief of the House of Austria; and
therefore I must think, that the outward Behaviour of all,
or any of the Princes of Europe, can never be made use of
as any Argument in this Debate. Besides, Sir, the other
Princes and States of Europe have no Occasion to make any
Augmentation of their Forces till they are just ready to take
the Field: They have, all of them, great Bodies of LandForces in continual Pay; there is hardly an Electoral Prince
of Germany, but what maintains as great a Number of
Land-Forces as are now in this Island; and yet, I hope, it
will not be said, but that if we were to engage, we not
only could, but ought to take the Field with a much greater
Army than either of them can maintain; for which Reason
we are always under a Necessity to begin to prepare much
sooner than any of our Neighbours.
'We may talk what we will of the Number of Men in
our Country, and the Numbers of Ships in our Harbours;
but from such Calculations the Strength of a Nation is not
now to be computed. It is from the Number of regular,
well-disciplin'd Troops, and from the Number of Men of
War provided with experienced Seamen, that the Strength
of a Nation is always now computed: A Number of regular well-disciplined Troops is now become as necessary, either
for Offence or Defence, as a well-disciplined, well-armed
Militia was of old; and the Regard a Nation is to expect
from its Neighbours, depends now as much upon the former,
as it depended of old upon the latter. 'Tis true, Regiments may be soon raised, Regiments may be soon augmented; but a Regiment newly raised must be exercised for many Months, before it can expect to engage successfully against
an old, well-disciplined Regiment; and even an old Regiment newly augmented, cannot pretend to enter upon immediate Action, it must have some Time to discipline the
new Men that have been incorporated. This is the Reason,
Sir, and, in my Opinion, a convincing Reason, why we
should always begin to increase our Land-Forces, at least,
some Months before there may be a Necessity for entering
upon Action: And by what is now proposed, the Increase
is to be made in the most proper, and the least expensive
Way; that is, by adding a Number of private Men to each
Company in the Service, without raising any new Regiments
or Companies, which could not so speedily be made fit for
Actition, and would, by increasing the Number of Officers,
be more expensive to the Nation.
'I am none of those, Sir, who imagine that Germany,
Poland, and Moscovy, can be conquered in one Campaign;
and much less do I imagine that France, Spain, and Italy,
can be conquered in one Campaign. And yet I do verily believe,
that a compleat Victory or two, gained in the very Beginning of a Campaign, especially by that Side which has hitherto had the best Success, might be attended with such
Consequences, and might bring the unfortunate Side so low,
if they met with no Relief or Assistance before the Beginning of the next Campaign, that to recover the Losses of
that Campaign, and compel the Conquerors to accept of
reasonable Terms, would most certainly cost this Nation a
vast Expence of Blood and Treasure; even though we were
immediately joined by Holland, Denmark, and Sweden,
neither of whose Assistance, even in such a critical Conjucture, we can pretend to depend upon with Certainty.
For upon such an Occasion, some of them might expect to
make an Advantage by joining the victorious Side; and if
we should be obliged to engage singly, and without the Assistance of either of the three Powers I have mentioned, one
unfortunate Campaign might involve us in a tedious, an
expensive, and even a doubtful War: Whereas, if we put
ourselves in such a Condition as to be able to give immediate
Relief to the unfortunate Side, or to engage immediately
against that Side whose Views shall hereafter be discover'd
to be inconsistent with the Safety of Europe, we may then
easily cast the Balance, and give Law to the Conquerors.
'I shall admit, Sir, that France and her Allies have
made the Declarations mentioned by the honourable Gentleman; and I do not know but they may be sincere, but I
am sure they are not to be trusted to: For even granting
that these Declarations are sincere, that they have really
no other Views but what they openly prosess, yet we know
that Success may elate the Minds of the Conquerors, and
may make them conceive new Designs, which they could
not at first have thought of. And against these we are to
provide, as well as against any Designs they may have at
present which we have not yet discovered; for if France
and her Allies should over-run all Germany, establish Stanislaus upon the Throne of Poland, and oblige the Czarina
to submit to their Terms, I am very far from thinking that
either of them would abide by the Declarations with which
they began the War: I am sure, our Constitution would be
exposed to much greater Danger, than it can be from the
small Addition now proposed to be made to our Army.
'This leads me, Sir, to consider that terrible, that imminent Danger our Liberties are exposed to, by keeping up
a numerous Standing Army in Time of Peace; which is a
Danger that has been much exaggerated, upon this and many
other Occasions, by the Gentlemen of the other Side of the
Question. I could easily shew, that an Army kept up from
Year to Year, under the Direction of Parliament, and commanded by Gentlemen of the best Families, and some of
them of as good Estates as any in the Kingdom, can never
be dangerous either to our Constitution or to our Liberties,
were it much more numerous than it is, or is now proposed
to be; but the keeping up a Standing Army in Time of
Peace is not the Question under our Consideration. Will
Gentlemen say, that when all Europe is in a Flame, we
ought not to begin to make Preparations? Will they say,
that we ought never to make any Augmentation, or to prepare for War, till it is publickly declared? Can this, Sir,
be a safe Maxim for any Nation?
'I do not know, Sir, that any Gentleman has in this
Debate declared, that 18,000 is the Number of Land-Forces
which must always be kept up in this Nation, even in time
of the profoundest Tranquility: However, it has been discovered, it seems, that this is the Opinion of some Gentlemen; and that the Addition now moved for, is proposed for
no other Reason, but only that these Gentlemen may have
an Opportunity of stopping the Mouths of the Disaffected,
by reducing that additional Number as soon as the publick
Tranquility is re-established. Sir, if no Reason had been
assigned for the Addition proposed, there might have been
some Room for this Presumption; but as other Reasons
have been assigned, as those Reasons are apparent from the
present Circumstances of Europe, I cannot see how such a
Presumption can be made: But suppose this were really
the Design of some Gentlemen in this House, will not every
other Gentleman be at Liberty to oppose that Design when
the Peace is restored? May not every Gentleman, who shall
then have the Honour to be a Member of this House, propose as great a Reduction as he pleases? Is it not as easy to
propose the Reduction of 17,000 as of 7000? And when
we are so happy as to have an Opportunity to make a Reduction, the Question will then come properly to be argued,
what Number of Land-Forces is necessary to be kept up in
this Nation in Time of Peace? Upon that Question, I hope
as great a Number will be reduced, without any regard to
the Addition now made, as the Safety of the Nation can
admit of; for I shall join with the honourable Gentlemen
in Opinion, that we ought never to keep up a greater Number than is absolutely necessary for the Safety of the Nation,
and the Support of his Majesty's Government; and whoever is against keeping up that Number, shall always be looked on by me as a Person disaffected to both.
'Before I conclude, Sir, I must take Notice that from
this Debate it appears to me, that the Gentlemen employed
in the Administration of our Affairs are always in the most
ticklish Situation. If they propose to make Provisions against Dangers, by which Provisions the People must be put
to an Expence, they then are charged with raising imaginary
Dangers, in order from thence to take an Opportunity to
load the People with new Taxes: And their Misfortune is,
that the more careful they have been in time past, the Argument grows every Day stronger against them; because
People begin at last to believe, that the Dangers which were
never felt were imaginary, tho' in Reality they were prevented only by the Provisions that were made against them.
However, many People may come at last to be confirmed in
this erroneous Opinion, by which the Ministers may be at
last refused those Provisions that are actually necessary; and
if, by such Refusal, any signal Misfortune should befal the
Nation, the Ministers would be sure to be loaded with
the Blame of it, tho' they had done all that was in their
Power to warn us of the Danger.
'I cannot really comprehend, Sir, what Sort of Information it is that Gentlemen want upon this Occasion; would
they have his Majesty send to tell us, that there is a bloody
War carried on by France, Spain and Sardinia against the
Emperor? Surely they do not expect that his Majesty should
send us a particular Message, in order to acquaint us with a
Piece of News that is known to the whole World! Probably his Majesty has not yet discovered, whether any of
the Parties engaged in War have any farther Views than
what they publickly avow; this I say may not probably
have been yet discovered, because no Plan of an Agreement
has yet been offered to the Parties concerned: Or perhaps
his Majesty has already discovered, that some of the Parties
concerned have some secret and ambitions Views, which
will oblige him to declare very soon against them. In the
first Case, his Majesty can give us no farther Information
than what he has already given; but suppose the last to be
the Case, ought his Majesty, either by Message or otherwise, to disclose to us the Secrets he has discovered, or the
Resolutions he has taken upon such Discovery? Would not
such a Message be an open and a publick Declaration of
War? And will any Gentleman say, that it would be wise
in his Majesty, or in those who have the Honour to advise him, to make any such publick Declaration, before he
has made all the necessary Preparation, and is just ready to
enter upon Action? In short, let us put the Case what Way
we will, it is impossible we can have, or ought to have,
any farther Information than what every Gentleman without Doors, as well as within, fully knows from the Circumstances Europe is in at present. And as these are, in
my Opinion, more than sufficient for inducing every Man,
who regards the Safety of his Country, to agree to the
Augmentation now proposed, I shall very little regard what
may be thought of the Wisdom or the Integrity of this
House; for I am very sure, every Man whose good Opinion
is worth desiring, will, from our agreeing to this Question,
be convinced of both.'
Mr Howe.
Some Members, who agreed to the Necessity of an Augmentation of our Forces, thought it more eligible to hire
foreign Troops than increase the Number of our Army at
Home: And in Support of this Proposal, Mr John Howe
stood up, and spoke as follows:
Sir,
'It is with great Diffldence and Confusion, that I stand
up to speak on this Occasion: I think it one of more Difficulty, a more critical Conjuncture, than ever I knew under
the Consideration of this House. I cannot, Sir, but with
the greatest Reluctancy think of adding to the heavy Burthen my Country already labours under; and yet it would
be the greatest Concern imaginable to me, if through an
ill-tim'd Piece of good Husbandry, I should suffer the Nation to be involv'd in Calamities, which some Expences
might have prevented. In this Streight I should be glad to
give no Opinion; but yet must now offer such as occurs to
me. Peace is the greatest Advantage that can be desired by
a free and trading Nation: Any Expence which will contribute to continue that Blessing to us, will be Money well
employed; and what is now proposed to us, I see in the Light
of a Measure for Peace: The Increase of our Forces in general appears to me, to be with an Intention, not to make,
but to prevent War. We are now in the rightest Situation
possible: We take on us the Part of Mediators, not of
Principals or Parties in the War: May our good Offices
be effectual? All I can do to make them so, I am sure I
wish: God send they may be so? But we must put ourselves into a Condition to be a Weight in whichever Scale
we may throw ourselves; for bare Reasons, Persuasives
alone, will, I fear, have little Effect. But if the stronger
Party is made sensible, that if it refuses to come into reasonable Terms, it will not long continue the stronger Party,
our Mediation will be more regarded; and a Minister will
be best hearkened to, whose Equipages, instead of a great
Number of fine Footmen, consists of a large Body of good
Troops: I am therefore, Sir, free to declare for arming
ourselves, convinced that an unarmed Mediation must prove
an unsuccessful one. But, Sir, as the shewing what a contrary Measure would produce, does best illustrate Things,
let us consider what would be the natural Effects of our declining to make any warlike Preparations. Would it not
be declaring to the French that they may go on and conquer? That they may place upon the Imperial Throne a
Prince of the House of Bourbon? That England is not
now, as formerly, apprehensive of the Increase of the
Power of France? This would certainly be the Conclusion
the French would naturally draw from our not arming: A
Conclusion no Englishman surely would give them an Opportunity to make. Warlike Preparations will, I hope, conduce to making Peace; and if they fail of making Peace, they
will-enable us to make War: The Expence will neither
way be lost. A noble Lord was pleased to say, that the
Prosperity of this Nation depended on the Peace and Tranquility of our Neighbours; I join with him in Opinion;
at least so far that it may be disturbed by their Want of
Tranquility: But surely then we ought not to repine at any
Expence to procure that Peace and Tranquility to them,
upon which our own Prosperity is thought to depend. Some
Gentlemen seem to apprehend, that arming will engage us
in War, without the Dutch; far from it; for if it should fail
of its desired Success, we are still at Liberty to act as we
think best: But upon that Article, I think it most proper to
be silent at present. We may, as the Country People express it, when the Time comes, do like our Neighbours.
But now, Sir, as I have given my Consent to the Increase
of Forces in general, I must likewise declare, that for the
Method, now proposed, of increasing them, by raising more
national Troops, I can by no Means approve of it. After
which it will be expected of me to say in what Manner I
would have them increased; for to oppose a Measure, and
propose no other in its Place, is certainly very unjustifiable.
On this Occasion therefore, I am not shy of declaring that
the warlike Preparation I mean, is by making Contracts
with foreign Princes for their Troops, in case we call for
them. To this Method there is no Objection but the unavoidable Expence; and yet the Expence of national Troops
is still greater: Even the disbanding of national Troops
does not free us from the Expence of them; their Half
Pay remains; and 'tis remarkable, that Half-Pay Officers,
tho' they hardly live, they never die. But other Objections
arise to national Troops; the Burthen they are otherwise,
and the Danger from them is likewise greater; not that I
look on them, as another noble Lord does, as a Standing
Army; for it is not to be supposed, that this can be the Number to be kept up: That is not my Objection; but I object
to the Increase of national Forces, as a Method in no Circumstance so easy or safe, as the engaging foreign Ones.
Arming in general I think absolutely necessary; and were
there no other Method, I would consent to this. Our
House indeed is not on Fire, but our Neighbours is in a
Flame; I therefore approve the increasing of our Forces
in general, and only oppose the Method now proposed of
raising national Ones, as there is a more easy and more convenient one of doing it, by engaging foreign Troops.'
Mr Lindsay.
To this Speech of Mr Howe's it was replied by Mr Lindsay, 'That by the Augmentation proposed, it was not intended to add new Officers, but only so many private Men
to each Company; so that when Peace was restored, the
Augmentation then made could be reduced, without leaving
any Charge upon the Nation: That in a Time of such publick Danger it was necessary to augment our Forces within
the Kingdom, and therefore any small Inconveniencies that
might from thence arise must be borne with: That by increasing our own Troops no Money was carried out of the
Kingdom: That it would add to the Number of our trained
Soldiers, which, if any future Danger should arise, would
be an Advantage to the Nation: That by a Man's becoming a Soldier his Labour and Industry was not quite lost,
for many of them were as industrious after listing as ever
they had been before: That old and infirm Soldiers must
always of course be dismissed, and new Recruits raised in
their Stead, tho' no Augmentation were ever made.
Mr J. Drummond. ; Mr Dundass.
Mr John Drummond, in Support of the Motion for the
Augmentation, took Notice of the Number of Forces the
Dutch had on Foot, and their Disposition to act in Concert
with Great Britain.' Then Mr Robert Dundass stood up,
and spoke against the Augmentation, and mention'd the bad
Purposes for which the Forces were employ'd, and instanc'd
the drawing up of the Regiment in the Abbey Close at
Edinburgh, to over-awe the Election of the Scots Peers,
or over-awe the Elections of Commoners; and to induce such
Places as were conceiv'd to wish for Troops, to vote for Courtiers, or otherwise to have the Troops remov'd from them.'
Mr D. Forbes.
To this Mr Duncan Forbes (fn. 1) answer'd, 'That the Drawing
up the Troops in the Abbey Close was an ordinary Muster
or Exercise of Arms; and the Abbey Close an ordinary
Place for such Musters; and that there was great Need of
armed Force in Scotland; without which the notorious Inclination there to Smuggling and Cheating the Revenue, and
to mutiny and resist the Execution of legal Process, could
not be quell'd; and concluded with disapproving the Proposal for hiring Foreign Troops.' Hereupon Mr James
Erskine stood up and said,
Mr. Erskine
Sir,
'I am loth to take up the Time of the House, now it
is so late, but as the Affair of the Troops at the Election
of the Sixteen Scots Peers has been misrepresented; and as
I am fully acquainted with the Truth of that Transaction,
I hope the House will indulge me.
'I believe no Member of this, or any other former Parliament, has ever asserted that a Standing Army was consistent with our Constitution, or even attempt to deny but it
is dangerous to our Rights and Liberties. A Standing Army
has been kept up, it is true, from Year to Year, and sometimes augmented, by pretending the Exigencies of the Times:
but such Exigencies, that the same, or other such, may to
the World's End be pretended: So that if the same mean
and low Spirit continues in Britain, a Standing Army is for
ever to be the Oppression of this once flourishing Island.
These Arguments are indeed too general to be dwelt on,
when the Question is not, Whether to have an Army; but,
Whether to augment it? Since it seems granted on all Sides,
that we must have an Army for this Year; that Britain
must for one Year longer submit to that Badge and great
Mean of Slavery: But if it is so dangerous to have any, it is
still more dangerous to add to it; and if Exigencies requir'd
such an Army as we had last Year, yet it behoves us to see
the Exigencies, that requir'd so large an Addition as 8000
more, before we ought to consent to it.
'The Pretext made use of is, that we and the Dutch are
to be Mediators between the contending Powers of Europe,
and that unarmed Mediators cannot effectually mediate;
yet the Dutch are to be unarm'd, not only by Sea, but are
to add nothing to their Land-Forces, as was but now acknowledg'd: Tho' the other Day we were told, That as
we should increase our Fleet, the Sea being our natural
Barrier; so would the Dutch augment their Troops, their
Barrier being by Land. But now we see that our Neighbours are to share with us the Honour and Advantage of
Mediating, and we are to bear all the Burden: Yet it seems
neither they nor we are indeed to be Mediators; for his
Majesty's Speech says only, that his good Offices, and the
good Offices of the States General, had been accepted of;
and as some Gentlemen had openly in the House deny'd
that we were to be Mediators, they explain'd the accepting
of these good Offices to be no more than barely to allow us
to make Proposals to the Powers in War. And is this all
the mighty Matter for which our domestick Army is to be
augmented so greatly? If a strong Army is necessary for
this Purpose, the Augmentation is too little: But any
Augmentation in our present Circumstances is not the
Way to make us to be regarded by the Potentates at
War. They know our Case, that we are under vast
Debts, much whereof was contracted for no Purpose, or
for bad Purposes: And to see us acting wisely and frugally, and to have Money and Credit as formerly, would
give Britain the Weight it formerly had; and they know
that then we could raise Troops at Home, and hire Abroad:
But they would never believe us noticeable for having 25,000
or 26,000 Men in our Army at Home, with not a Farthing
in our Pockets. After all, it seems hard to be believed that
it is in earnest said we are to be Mediators, or at all to interpose, or that we are any ways afraid of the Consequences
of the present War in Europe: For some Years ago we
were offer'd the Mediation, and then refus'd it; no doubt
to shew our Modesty, and that we were not so vain as to
take on us to offer Laws to France, a Nation superior to
Britain, and whom then we obsequiously courted. And to
say, we now dread the Progress of the Arms of the French
and their Confederates, one must be tempted to think but
a Pretext: For so wise Men as administer the British Affairs
did certainly foresee it, and can not be frighted at the
Consequences of their own Actions; since all stow'd from
the Introduction of Don Carlos into Italy, which was done
by our own Fleet. I am, in my own private Opinion,
so little persuaded of the Wisdom of that Expedition, that
I hope the 30,000 Seamen, voted the other Day, are design'd
for a better Purpose; yet it is better to make an ible, tho' expensive Show of them at Spithead, than send them Abroad to
do Mischief. And all this appears from our succeeding Conduct; for it would be a high Reflection to suppose the Intelligence of our Ministry so bad, that they knew not of the
Alliance when forming betwixt France, Spain and Sardinia,
and they could not but see the Consequences of it. Yet they
did nothing to stop that Treaty; nor, when it was finish'd, to
stop their powerful Armies from entering Italy, where they
have had so great Success; and our Trade to which Country
is now as precarious as our Trade to Spain: They likewise
must have foreseen the Progress of the French Arms on the
Rhine; for who did not know, that the Emperor, having a
great Army in Italy, was over-power'd by a greater; and
that France, in the German War, having nothing to apprehend from Italy or Spain, as in former Wars, could not
but be an Over-match for the Emperor on the Rhine?
Therefore as all this has happen'd, having been foreseen and
help'd on by our own Ministry, the Fear said to arise from
thence must be but an affected Pretence, as well as the Mediation which we had formerly refused, and now did not
pretend was offer'd to us: Nay, if it was otherwise, yet this
Augmentation of our Army is not the right Way to make
us considerable in the Mediation, nor a good Way to act for
ourselves, since we are not like to be attack'd this Year.
'I can't help taking Notice of what was said by the Gentleman who spoke last, [Mr Duncan Forbes] relating to the
Use of Troops in Scotland. I am sorry that such Things
should be said of that Country, by a Gentleman whom I
regard so much, and whose Worth and Learning I am not
a Stranger to: I dare assert the Law, and the Execution of legal Process, in Scotland has free Course without the Assistance
of Troops: I have heard of no remarkable Instance of the
Interposition of Troops in such Cases; but when it was done
illegally by those in Power and Office, to the Oppression of
the Subjects, and Overthrow of our Liberties, and contrary
to Law; Instances of which I can give, and I hope will
in due Time be adverted to, and meet with deserved Rebuke. There are more Instances of Mutiny and Tumult
in England than in Scotland; and more Running of Goods
in a few Days on the Thames, than in all Scotland for a
Year. [Here he related the Manner of drawing up the Regiment in the Abbey-Close at the Election of the Sixteen
Peers.] For my Part I know no Good the Army has done
in Britain, but making Roads thro' the Mountains of the
Scots Highlands, which was performed by a Handful.'
Col. Handasyde.
Colonel Handasyde took up Mr Erskine, as if what he
had said about the Regiment in the Abbey-Close had reflected on him, whose Regiment it was; and endeavour'd to
shew that it was but an ordinary Meeting there, and that nothing could be meant by it, since the Regiment march'd
from Town at Mr Dundass's Election: That he deserv'd
Thanks, and not Blame, for his Conduct by the Gentlemen
of that Country; but that some wish'd there had been Mobs
and Tumults, and from their Disappointment proceeded
their Complaints.'
Mr Erskine. ; Sir J. Campbell. ; Sir James Campbell call'd to Order, for reflecting on Mr Erskine, on account of his Brother the Earl of Mar's being concern'd in the Rebellion, Anno 1715.
Mr Erskine rising up to reply, Sir James Campbell stood
up likewise, and endeavour'd to shew the Necessity of Troops
in the Highlands; Urging, 'That they ought to be continued
though the Highlanders were, at present, mostly well affected; and gave for Instance the Advantage of having
Troops in Scotland in the Year 1715, when the Rebellion
was rais'd and carried on by the Earl of Mar, Brother to
the honourable Member who had spoke last against the Motion.' Several Members, resenting this Expression as a Reflection on Mr Erskine, call'd out, To Order: Hereupon
Mr Erskine stood up again, and said, 'That when he last
rose up to speak, it could not be to answer the Member
who had now spoke, [Sir James Campbell] for then he had
said nothing; and that he might for the same Reason pass
by all that the worthy Gentleman had spoke since.' Here
Sir James Campbell got up again; but the House would not
allow him to interrupt: Then Mr Erskine went on, and said,
'That the honourable Gentleman, who spoke before, [meaning
Colonel Handasyde] could not, on the least Reflection, imagine that any Thing said was meant against him, who he had
never, that he knew of, seen in his Life till now; and that the
Colonel was not then in Scotland, and therefore could not
be blam'd for any Thing done by his Regiment: That he
blam'd not even his Officers present, not doubting but they
had Orders: That this was not the Time to argue that important Matter and fragrant Encroachment on the British Liberties, which might come to be inquir'd into afterwards;
yet the Account he had given of it was just, notwithstanding
the Answer: That the Regiment had been muster'd, and
in the Field but a Day or two before, and therefore the
Meeting on that Day was not an ordinary one: That it could
not be without a Design, and a bad one too: That on such a
Day the three Companies at Leith were march'd to join
those at Edinburgh, and kept altogether under Arms during
the Election, and then march'd back to Leith: And that
other Facts, equally or more gross, could in due Time and
Season, be made appear to shew that it was done on a bad
Design: That their marching from Edinburgh at the Election for the County, proves only they were not in the Wrong
at that Time, tho' they were prodigiously wrong at the
Election of the Peers: That the Accusation of wishing for
Mobs and Tumults was injurious, and as weak as unjust: That
if it was meant against the Majority, what could they gain
by it? And still less could the Minority reap any Advantage
from it, except to put themselves in the Wrong, when they
had no Reason to hope they would meet with Pardon and
Indulgence: That Mutiny was the stale Pretence of those,
who wanted a Handle to oppress by superior Power: That
by Mobbing, the Minority could only expect such Ruin to
themselves, as had befallen his Kinsman by the Rebellion,
which an honourable Member had, with so much Discretion
and Justice, objected to him: That the Objection was so entirely from the Purpose, he would pass it by unanswer'd,
as well as the rest of what that honourable Gentleman had
said, did not the high Nature of it require him to speak
to it: That he had suffer'd more by it than any Man, except
his deceas'd Friend and Relation, who was at the Head of
it: That his Principle and Conduct, with respect to the present Establishment, ever since he enter'd on the World and
Business, had been uniform and firm in all Times and Situations, as every Body knew, who knew him; and as the Objector and his Friends had often acknowledg'd: And if now
his greatest Enemies could bring an Instance to the contrary,
he consented to have it reckon'd that he had always been
a Traitor: That, therefore, if the Occasion of flinging out
this at him, and the Air with which it was done, had not
look'd so unfavourably, he must, in Justice to the Gentleman who spoke it, have thought he intended to do him
Honour; by shewing his Loyalty to have been so unconquerable, that his nearest Relations, and with whom he had
so great Connection, could not shake or diminish it.'
Mr Cha. Areskine
Mr Charles Areskine (fn. 2) stood up next, and said, 'That
the Abbey and Parliament Close were so far distant, (fn. 3) that
the Regiment drawn up in the former could not over-awe
the Election at the latter.'
Then the Question being put on the Motion made by
Mr Andrews, it pass'd in the Affirmative by 261 to 208.