Mr Plumer's Motion for laying before the House the King's Warrant for permitting Letters to pass Post Free.
Feb. 17. Mr Walter Plumer mov'd, That the Postmaster
General might lay before the House a Copy of the King's
Warrant, whereby Letters were permitted to pass Post-free.
Feb. 19. The said Warrant was laid before the House.
Feb. 24. Several Resolutions of the Committee on the
Supply, having been agreed to by the House, Sir William
Wyndham mov'd, 'That the Journal of the House of the
5th of December 1690, in the second Year of William and
Mary, in relation to the Report from the Committee, to
whom the Consideration of the Estimates and Accounts relating to the Army, Navy and Treasury were referred,
might be read; which was done accordingly. Then he
mov'd for reading the Journal of November 9th, 1691, in
the third Year of the same Reign, in relation to appointing a Committee to inspect the Estimate of the Navy for
the Year 1692, which having been also read, Sir William
Wyndham stood up again, and spoke as follows:
Sir W. Wyndham's Motion for referring the Estimate of the Navy for the Year 1735, to a select Committee.
Mr Speaker,
'When I reflect on the long Peace this Nation has enjoy'd, I am surprised how small a Part of our publick Debts
has been paid off; but when I consider the vast Sums that
have been yearly raised, that the People have not been made
quite free of any one Tax which the preceeding War
brought upon them, nor any Tax, except one only, in the
least diminished; I cannot comprehend how it was possible,
in every Year of this long Term of Peace, to find Pretences
for putting the Nation to such a vast Expence: And I must
think, If our Parliaments, for these twenty Years past, had
followed the Example laid down in the Precedents now
read to you, and had always appointed a select Committee,
to examine the Estimates yearly laid before them, it would
not have been possible to prevail with them to agree that
such an Expence was necessary.
'This, Sir, I wish had been done by every Parliament
since the Revolution; and as this is the first Session of a
new Parliament, I hope we shall begin to follow that Example which was shewn by the first Parliament after the
Revolution. I hope it will not be said, but that Parliament
had as good Reason to put a Confidence in the Administration as this Parliament has, or as any Parliament had
since that Time; and yet we find that Parliament, in their
very first Session, passing an Act, and by Ballot appointing
Commissioners, for taking and examining the Account of all
publick Money, and resolving that no Person should be one
of those Commissioners, who had any Office of Profit, or
was accountable to their Majesties; and their Care of the
publick Money, in their second and third Sessions, we may
collect from the Journals now read to us. For this Reason I am convinced, that what I am now to propose cannot
be thought shewing the least Disrespect to his Majesty: It
is only shewing that prudent Care of the People's Money,
which we ought always to shew as their Representatives,
even tho' there were no particular Reason for our being so
careful.
'But at present, Sir, we have a melancholy Reason for
resuming the ancient Usage of Parliament; It is well known
that Estimates have been every Year laid before this House
of all the Expences, which were then supposed to be necessary for the ensuing Year; and notwithstanding those Estimates were much larger than were ever before usual, yet in
every Year ample Provision has been made for the Expences
of the ensuing Year, conformable to the Estimates laid before
the House: This is known to almost every Man, and every
Man that does know it must think it very odd, that in so
small a Number of Years such a great Debt should be contracted as is at present due upon Account of our Navy; but
it must appear still more surprizing when we consider, that
in every Session of Parliament Accounts have been laid before this House, of the Deficiencies of all former Grants,
and likewise of all Services incurred and not provided for
by Parliament. If such Accounts had been rightly considered, they would certainly have been made good, and the
Services, if found to have been necessarily incurred, would
certainly have been provided for, out of the first and readiest
of the Grants made for the Service of the next ensuing
Year.
'This, Sir, is the only proper Way of providing for all
Services incurred and not provided for in the former Session of Parliament: While this Method is regularly pursued, the Strength of the Nation is not impaired by loading
Posterity with Debts and Mortgages; nor can the People
be so easily prevailed on to submit to any unnecessary Expence; and the Facts being fresh in every Man's Memory,
if any Fraud be couched under any of the Articles of the
Accounts given in, it may be easily discovered; but when
the Nation is thus secretly run in Debt, the People being
ignorant of their Expence, cannot find Fault with any of
those extravagant Measures which occasioned that Expence;
and when Accounts are brought into this House in a Heap,
and after the Transactions to which they relate are all forgotten, it is then impossible for Gentlemen to discover the
Fallacies that may be practised in the Manner of stating these
Accounts.
'Upon such a slight View, Sir, as I have taken of the
Accounts now upon the Table, it is not possible for me to
enter into the particular Articles; but I cannot help taking
Notice of one which to me appears very extraordinary.
There is near 250,000 l. charged, not for the Building of
Ships, but for the Building of Houses; whether such Houses
were necessary I shall not now pretend to determine; but if
they were, I think it is too large a Sum for any Administration to have expended, without a previous Authority
from Parliament; and that I am sure was never asked for.
What the present Age may think of such a Sum, I do
not know, but I am sure our Ancestors, even of the very
last Age, would have been extremely shy of loading the
People with at least Six-pence in the Pound upon all the
Lands in Great Britain, for building Houses for the Officers belonging to the Admiralty; and I must think it a little extraordinary to see Ministers, of their own Heads, undertake to do that which even Parliaments of old would
scarce have undertaken to have done. 'Tis true, Parliaments have of late become very good natur'd, they have put
great Confidence in Ministers, and have generally, I shall
not say blindly, approved of all ministerial Measures: This
may perhaps have made Ministers presume a little farther
than they would otherwise have done; but I am very sure,
that till very lately, no Minister would have dared to have
drawn the Nation into such an Expence without an Authority from Parliament for so doing.
'This Article would, I believe, Sir, have appeared a
little extraordinary, in the most flourishing Circumstances
that ever this Nation was in; but when the People are
groaning under heavy Taxes, when most of those Taxes
are already engaged for the Payment of our Debts, I must
think it highly extravagant. We ought to make our Estate
our own, we ought to free it from Mortgages, before we
think of beautifying it with costly Buildings. However, Sir,
let me suppose that this Expence was absolutely necessary,
yet still it ought to have been provided for by Parliament
before it was undertaken, or at least the next Session after
it was laid out: In that Case the Parliament would probably have taken Care to have saved as much upon some
other Article: By that means our being involved in so heavy
a Debt as we are at present would have been prevented,
and we might have been in a Condition for acting that Part,
which the present Circumstances of Europe may make incumbent upon us to undertake.
'The Revenues of a Nation, Sir, which always arise
from those Taxes the People are to pay, may be compared
to the Revenues of a private Gentleman's Estate; and every
Gentleman who has a Regard to his Family, or to his own
Credit, will certainly proportion his Expence to the Revenues of his Estate, taking Care to save as much yearly as
may be necessary for providing for younger Children, and
for answering future Accidents or Misfortunes: Such a Gentleman will consider that if, by his Way of Living, he spends
more than the yearly Revenue of his Estate may, according
to this Computation, answer, he must yearly destroy a Part
of his Estate; and that the greater this Surplus is, the sooner
his Estate and Family will be ruined. Let us suppose then
that such a Gentleman should order his Steward to compute
the Manner how he was to live, so as not to spend yearly
more than the Revenue of his Estate could bear, allowing so
much yearly for Childrens Fortunes, paying off Mortgages,
or future Contingencies: Suppose this Steward had prescribed such a Manner of living, and had for several Years
sed him with a Notion that he was spending no more yearly than his Estate could bear; but at last brings him in a
terrible Account of Debts contracted, by that Manner of
living which he himself had prescribed, and gravely tells
him, he must sell or mortgage one of his best Manors for
paying off those Debts: What would such a Steward deserve? Surely he must at least expect all his Accounts to be
examined in the strictest Manner, and his Master would never place a Confidence in any of his Calculations for the
future.
'The Case, Sir, is the same with this Nation at present: We have been made to believe, that what we were
spending yearly was no more than the yearly Taxes would
answer: These Taxes have been chearfully granted by Parliament, and as chearfully paid by the People, in full Expectation that these were all that were necessary for answering our annual Expence; but now, Sir, when we are in
Danger of being brought into a great and unforeseen Expence, we are told that we have run much in Arrear, that
a great Debt has been contracted, and that for the Payment of this Debt, we must either mortgage those Funds
which ought to be reserved for a Time of Danger, or we
must lay violent Hands upon those Funds which have been
long ago declared sacred, and religiously appropriated for
relieving us from those heavy Burdens we at present groan
under. While we are Members of this House, Sir, we
are the Trustees of the People; and when the People have
been insensibly run into a heavy and unexpected Arrear,
shall we approve of the Accounts of those Services by which
that Arrear has been occasioned, without examining strictly
into every Article? I must think we are, both in Honour
and Conscience, bound to examine them in the strictest Manner; and therefore I shall beg leave to move, That the
ordinary Estimate of his Majesty's Navy, for the current
Year, may be referred to the Consideration of a select Committee, and that they do examine the same, and report the
Facts, with their Opinion thereupon, to the House.'
Debate thereon.
Sir William Wyndham being seconded by Mr Sandys, the
same occasion'd a great Debate, in which Sir Robert Walpole, Mr Horatio Walpole, Mr Winnington, Sir William
Yonge, and Colonel Bladen, urg'd the following Arguments
against the Motion.
Sir,
'The Affairs of Europe, and the various Incidents that
have occurred since the famous Peace of Utrecht, are so
fresh in every Man's Memory, that I think it sufficient to
observe in general, that every Man, who knows any Thing
of the History of Europe for these last twenty Years, may
easily give a Reason why we have not been able to pay off
any considerable Part of the publick Debts. There was no
Method of paying off honestly and fairly any of our Debts
formerly contracted, but by increasing the publick Revenue,
or saving a Part yearly of that which had before been established; and every Gentleman must acknowledge, that both
these Methods have been pursued as much as it was possible.
We could not increase the publick Revenue by imposing any
new Taxes, for our People think they are already burdened
with too many; and if any such Method had been proposed,
it would certainly have been opposed, perhaps by some of
those Gentlemen who now find Fault with so small a Part of
our Debts having been paid off: The only other Method of
increasing the publick Revenue was, by having the Taxes
carefully collected, and thereby endeavouring to increase the
Produce of each; and this has been pursued with the utmost Care, so that most of our Taxes produce more now
than they did twenty Years ago.
'With respect to the saving a Part of the publick Revenue which had been before established, it could be done
no other way but by reducing the Interest payable to the
Creditors of the publick, or by reducing the publick annual
Expence: The first of these Methods has been pursued, and
luckily for the Nation, with great Success; and no Man can
with Justice say, that for these twenty Years the Nation has
been put to any Expence but what was absolutely necessary,
according to the Circumstances which the Affairs of Europe,
or the Affairs of the Nation were in at that Time; nor has
it been put to any Expence but what was regularly laid before the Parliament, and always approved of by Parliament;
so that the finding Fault with any Part of our Conduct for
these twenty Years past, is not really finding Fault with
the Conduct of our Ministers, but with the Conduct of King
and Parliament.
'I shall agree with the honourable Gentlemen, Sir, that
Estimates have been every Year laid before the House, of
what was then suppos'd to be necessary for the Service of the
ensuing Year; and I hope they will agree with me that it
was right to do so; but I never heard that the Gentlemen,
who computed those Estimates and laid them before the Parliament pretended to be infallible. The Estimates they have
given in have been found to be deficient, some of the necessary Services have been sometimes omitted, or the Sums
thereby allotted have been found not sufficient for answering
the Services for which they were appointed, and this is one
of the Reasons why so large a Debt now appears to be due
on account of the Navy: Another Reason is, that the
Funds appointed by Parliament for raising those Sums, which
were yearly granted by them for the Service of the Navy,
have been always found deficient; and a third Reason is,
that the Parliament have often found it necessary for the
Safety of the Nation, to give his Majesty Votes of Credit,
in Pursuance of which some additional Expences have been
incurred, above what were mentioned in the Estimates yearly given in at the Beginning of the Session: And as such
Expences were generally incurred by making Additions to
our Navy, which is the natural Defence of this Nation in
all Times of Danger, it has greatly increased the Debt due
on account of our Navy, and is one of the chief Reasons
why that Debt is now become so considerable.
'Some of those Accounts relating to the Navy-Debt,
have been for several Years successively laid upon your Table, and all of them, except some few Articles which have
lately accrued, were laid before the last Session of Parliament; and for what Reasons, I shall not pretend to determine, the Parliament never thought fit to provide for those
Deficiencies, or to pay off any Part of that Debt which had
been thereby occasioned; tho' I must suppose that, as the
Accounts were regularly laid before the Parliament, when the
Transactions to which they related were fresh in every Man's
Memory, if an Error or Fallacy could have been pointed
out, or if any Objection could have been made to any one
of the Articles, it would not only have been taken Notice
of in this House, but would have been made a Subject for
Clamour over the whole Nation; for there always have
been, and I hope there always will be, a great Number of
Gentlemen in this House not only capable, but ready and
willing to discover any Fallacies that may be artfully foisted
into our publick Accounts; and if any such Discovery had
been made, those who are disaffected to his Majesty's Government might, and would certainly have from thence endeavoured to have raised a popular Clamour against the Administration: For this Reason I may suppose, that all the
Accounts upon your Table have already been sufficiently
canvassed, and therefore I cannot think there is any Occasion
for appointing a select Committee for that Purpose.
'As for the Article, Sir, which the honourable Gentlemen have been pleased to distinguish by a particular Remark, it is certain that Houses, Docks, Dock-yards, and
Magazines, are as necessary for the Support of our Navy as
Ships of War; and it is as necessary to rebuild the former,
when fallen to Decay, as it is necessary to rebuild the latter.
To pretend that Ministers, by Directions from his Majesty,
ought not to order a Dock, Dock-yard, or Admiralty-Office
to be repaired or rebuilt, without having first laid the same
before Parliament, seems to me very extraordinary; it may
be as well pretended, that they ought not to order a Man
of War to be rebuilt or repaired, without first having laid
the same before Parliament: In this respect the Sum can
make no Difference; it is the Nature of the Service only
we are to regard, when we are to determine, whether it
ought to be laid before Parliament before it be undertaken;
and surely no Man will say, but that his Majesty, or his
Ministers by his Direction, may give Orders to rebuild a
Man of War, or to repair or rebuild a publick Office,
without having first laid the Affair before Parliament for
their Approbation. I believe it will be granted, and if
it were inquired into it would be found, that no Money
has been laid out in this way, nor any House built, but
what were absolutely necessary; and if there had been any
Fallacy in the Accounts relating to that Expence, as they
have been long upon the Table, it would certainly before
now have been taken Notice of.
'Thus it must appear, Sir, that the Story we have been
told of a Steward's running his Master in Debt, is no Way
parallel to the present Case; for this Nation has been run
into no extraordinary Expence, but what had not only the
Authority of Parliament before it was undertaken, but the
Approbation of Parliament after it was laid out: And if any
Debt has been contracted, if the Funds appropriated for the
Service of the Year have proved at any Time deficient, or
if any Services have been incurred which were not provided
for by Parliament, those Deficiencies and those Services have
been regularly laid before Parliament as soon as they could
be brought into an Account: And it is very certain, if a
Steward should run his Master into no Expence but what he
had a previous Authority for, and should fairly and honestly
lay before his Master every Year, or as often as it could
possibly be done, a full Account of the Debt he had contracted in the preceding Year, that Steward could deserve
no Censure from his Master.
'Now, Sir, as the naming of a select Committee, to inquire into Accounts and Estimates, is a very extraordinary
Method of Proceeding, a Method which has not been practised for many Years, and never was often practised, we
must suppose it will give a general Alarm, and make People
imagine that some Frauds have been committed. This will
of course throw a Reflection upon his Majesty's Government;
and therefore I think we ought not to enter into any such
Method without some very strong Reasons; and as I can
see no Reason for our entering into any such Method, as I
can see no Good that can be expected from any such Method, as I am convinced it will do a great deal of Mischief,
by raising Jealousies and Fears among his Majesty's Subjects,
therefore I must be against the Motion.'
To this it was replied by Mr Gybbon, Sir Joseph Jekyll,
Mr William Pulteney, and other Members as follows:
Sir,
'It is from the Knowledge I have of the History of this
Nation in particular, and of Europe in general, that I am
so suprised, with respect to the small Part of our publick
Debts paid off, notwithstanding the Continuance of all our
Taxes, and the vast Sums that have been raised every Year;
and the more I consider it, the less I can account for the
unprofitable Use we have made of such a long Term of
Peace. But I am still more surprised to hear any Gentleman
say, that all possible Methods have been pursued, either for
diminishing the publick annual Expence, or the annual Interest due to the Creditors of the Publick; on the contrary
I am convinced, that all possible Methods have been pursued
for increasing the first, and no Opportunities have been embraced for reducing either the Principal or the Interest due
to the Creditors of the Publick, but such as durst not be
refused or neglected.
'We have been for these twenty Years in a continued
Course of publick Peace, at least we have had no War declared, nor any Broil with any of our Neighbours; and yet
every Year we have been very near at as great an Expence,
as we were at in any one Year of the heavy War in King
William's Reign: We have had numerous Armies kept up
in our own Country, we have maintained many Princes and
Armies in foreign Countries, and we have sent many expensive Squadrons into almost all Places of the World; and I
should be glad to hear a Reason given for any of our naval
Expeditions into the Baltick or the Mediterranean, by those,
who are now for our looking quietly on to see the Emperor
stript of his Dominions in Italy, and Muscovy giving Sovereigns to its neighbouring Kingdoms. I should be glad
to hear a Reason for our being so alarmed at the Alliance,
only between Spain and the Emperor, by those who now
seem to be so little alarmed at a Treaty, not only of Alliance but of Conquest, between France, Spain and Sardinia:
This, Sir, I do not say with a Design to insinuate that we
have as yet any great Reason to be alarmed at this last Alliance, but I must think we had from the Beginning much
greater Reason to be alarmed with it, than ever we had to
be alarmed with the former; and I must think it would
now have been more justifiable to have thrown ourselves
into the Arms of the Emperor, to have prevented the Consequences of this last Alliance, than ever it was to throw
ourselves into the Arms of France, to prevent the Consequences of the former: From all which I must conclude,
either that a great Part of the Expence we have formerly
been at might have been saved, or that our present Inactivity is highly inexcusable; and which of these two to
chuse I shall leave to the Gentlemen who now so strenuously
insist, that for these last twenty Years we have taken all
possible Methods to diminish our annual Expence.
'Now, Sir, as to the diminishing of the Interest payable
to the Creditors of the Publick, can it be said that we have
taken any one Method to diminish it, but what the Nature
of the Thing and the Circumstances of the Nation pointed
cut so plainly, that it would have been highly criminal in
any Administration to have neglected the Opportunity? But
if we had applied the Sinking Fund regularly to the Payment of our publick Debts, if we had saved that Expence,
which has been thrown away in maintaining numerous idle
Armies, and sending out many idle Squadrons, and had applied all the Savings to the same honest Purposes, the Principal of our publick Debts would have been so greatly reduced, that the Creditors who remained unpaid would have
been glad to have taken what Interest we pleased: Nay, I do
not know but the Principal would, by this Time, have been
so greatly reduced, that the three great Companies would
have been glad to have passed from the Payment of any future Interest upon what was due to them, in order to have
had their Charters continued.
'Whether Accounts were regularly laid before the Parliament of the present Navy-Debt, yearly as it became due,
is what I shall not pretend to deny, because I do not really
know whether it was so or not; but if this be true, which I
shall, in Complaisance to the honourable Gentlemen, admit,
it is the strongest Argument that can be given for what is
now proposed; it is a full Confirmation of the old Proverb
that What is every Man's Business is no Man's Business,
and therefore an unanswerable Argument for our returning
to the old Custom of Parliament, and appointing select
Committees every Year to consider and examine every Estimate laid before us: For I hope no Man will say but that
we ought, in Time of Peace especially, to raise as much
within the Year as will answer the Service of the Year;
and if any Deficiency should happen in the Funds granted
for one Year, or if it should be found that the Estimates
were deficient, all those Deficiencies ought certainly to be
made good the very next Year. It is certainly inconsistent
with the publick Good to leave Arrears long due, because
when Tradesmen, or those who furnish the Publick with
what is necessary for publick Use, must lie for Years out of
their Money, it is certain they neither can nor will serve the
Publick so cheap, as when they know they are sure of their
Money within a few Months after the Goods are delivered;
and the longer any of those Arrears stand unpaid, the greater
Price they will be obliged to pay for every Thing afterwards
bought for publick Use.
'With respect to Ministers, indeed, and the Tools employed under them, I must observe, Sir, that it is of great
Advantage to have publick Accounts stand long in Arrear;
and this Advantage is greater in the Navy than in any other
Branch of publick Business, because Tradesmen, and others
who serve the Publick, but especially Seamen, cannot lie
long out of their Money: If they cannot get their Money
soon after it becomes due, they must go to Usurers, ministerial Tools, and such like Extortioners, to sell or pledge
their publick Securities. This brings such Securities to Discount, the longer they are of being paid, the greater Discount they come to be at; so that at last they furnish a plentiful Harvest to Ministers and their Favourites; for when
the Discount upon those Securities is raised to a sufficient
Height, Ministers then give the Watch-Word to their Agents
and Favourites to go out and purchase; and when they have
got them all, or most of them into their Hands, then the
ministerial Bowels begin to yearn for the Sufferings of the
publick Creditors, in having lain so long out of their Money; and great Merit is assumed from their coming to a compassionate Resolution, to have such or such a Class of pub
lick Creditors paid off: This House is always too good natured to refuse such a just Request; and thus Extortioners
get the full Value of those Securities, which they purchase
at a great Discount. This, Sir, I shall not say is the Case
at present; but I must say I am apt to believe, if an Inquiry were made into the Affair, it would be found that
there is but a small Part of the Debt, due upon the Navy,
now in the Hands of the original Creditors of the Publick;
and even this, Sir, is an Inquiry not unworthy of the Representatives of Great Britain in Parliament.
'But, Sir, whatever the Interest of Ministers may be, it
is certainly the Interest of the Publick to pay off their
Debts regularly, and as soon as possible; and as I am convinced every Gentlemen now, or formerly, in this House,
has, and always had, the Interest of the Publick more at
Heart than the Interest of the Minister; therefore I am convinced, that if these Accounts have been upon our Table, all
the other Gentlemen of the House are in the same Condition with me; they are so far from having canvassed every
Article of them, that they are quite ignorant of their having
been ever laid upon the Table before this Session: If any
Gentleman had but cast his Eye upon such Accounts, in any
preceeding Session, and had observed the Arrears standing
unpaid, or unprovided for by Parliament, his Regard for
the Publick, his Regard for the Distressed Creditors of the
Publick, would certainly have prompted him to have moved
to have had them taken into Consideration, and paid off long
before now; nothing could have prevented it but a Neglect,
which has been occasioned by its not having been made the
Concern of any particular Set of Men; and for this Reason
we never ought to think it sufficient to have Accounts or
Estimates laid upon our Table, we ought always to refer
the Consideration of them to select Committees; and thus,
by making it the particular Business of a few, we may expect they will never be neglected as those now before us
seem to have been, by their having been left to the Care of
the whole House.
'I must beg Leave to differ with the honourable Gentlemen, when they say, that the Nature of the Service is
only to be regarded, when we are to determine, whether it
ought or ought not to be laid before the Parliament; for in
my Opinion, the Sum to be laid out ought likewise to be
considered: If the Sum be but small, and the Nature of the
Service such as often occurs, it may be undertaken without
any particular Authority from Parliament; but if the Sum
be large, tho' the Nature of the Service be such as often occurred, and has generally been undertaken without any particular Directions from Parliaments, yet such Directions become necessary when the Sum is much larger than what is
usually required for that Service: His Majesty may, without Doubt, give Orders to have a Man of War, or perhaps
half a Dozen in a Year, repaired; but if by any great Misfortune, it should become necessary to lay out, in any one,
two or three Years, a very large Sum for that Purpose, it
would then be proper to lay that Necessity before Parliament; and I think no Minister ought to undertake such an
extraordinary Service without having first obtained an Authority from Parliament for so doing: In the Case mentioned, I believe it will be granted, that the building of
Houses is a Service that does not often occur; and I am
very sure the Sum that has been laid out, and which now
makes a great Part of our Navy Debt, is a much larger
Sum than was ever laid out in this Nation upon such a Service, in so small a Number of Years; nay, I do not know
but it amounts to more than was ever before expended in
this Nation for Building Docks or any other Sort of Buildings for the Use of the Navy, or the Officers of our Navy;
and therefore, both with respect to the Nature of the Service, and the Sum to be laid out, it ought not to have been
undertaken without a previous Authority from Parliament.
'Sir, if the Nation has been run into any unnecessary Expence, I am sorry to hear it said, that nothing has been
undertaken without the Approbation of Parliament; but,
Sir, if it were so, the Authority or the Approbation of former Parliaments can be no Reason for our following their
Example, in giving our Authority for undertaking such Services for Years to come, as they have authorised for Years
past: We are under no greater Obligation to approve of
what was approved of by the very last Parliament, than that
Parliament in King Charles IId's Reign, called The Pensionary Parliament.
'To pretend that what is now proposed will raise Jealousies among the People, or give them any Suspicions of
his Majesty's Government, is an Argument, I find, always
to be brought in when any Attempt is made to inquire into
the Conduct of his Majesty's Ministers; but I would have
Gentlemen consider, that the proper Business of Parliament
is to inquire into the Conduct of Ministers; and if the
People find that such Attempts are always over-ruled, it will
give them a Suspicion, not only of his Majesty's Government, and the Conduct of his Ministers, but it will give
them likewise a Suspicion, and a just one too, of the Conduct of Parliament: We ought to consider what it was
that gave the Parliament in King Charles IId's Reign, the
ignominious Epithet it is now branded with; and if the
People should conceive any such Suspicion of this or any
future Parliament, it would raise real Jealousies among them,
it would make them despair of ever having their Grievances
redressed in a legal Way, and that Despair might drive
them into the most violent Methods of seeking Redress;
therefore I wish Gentlemen would, upon all Occasions, distinguish a little between his Majesty and his Ministers, and
never allow the Respect they have for the latter, to over-balance the Duty they owe to the former.
'The Respect that former Parliaments have shewn to the
Ministers for the Time being, and the great Confidence put
by Parliament in their Conduct, is, I am afraid, one great
Cause that the Nation now remains under such a Load of
Debts and Taxes; and therefore it is high Time for us
to reassume that Jealousy which has so often proved to be
of the most signal Benefit to this Nation. We have been
talking, Sir, of putting ourselves in a Condition to compel
the Acceptation of the Terms of Peace we are to propose,
but I wish we may not find that our Neighbours are too
well acquainted with our Circumstances to be afraid of
any Thing we can do: They know that our People are already as heavily taxed as they can bear: They know that
all those Taxes are already engaged, either for the Payment of our Debts, or for the Support of our Civil Government; can it be supposed that our Menaces will have
great Insluence upon any of their Resolutions ? But if they
should find, that our Parliament were beginning to look
closely into the Management of our publick Affairs, they
would from thence conclude, that the best Use would be
made of every Shilling hereafter to be raised; that the
People would contribute with the more Alacrity, and from
thence they will probably be induced to give some Attention to whatever we may think necessary to propose, for restoring the Peace of Europe. For this Reason, if there
were no other, we ought to agree to what the honourable
Gentleman has been pleased to propose.'
Then the Question being put upon Sir William Wyndham's Motion, it was, upon a Division, carried in the Negative, by 198 to 168.
Mr Plumer's Motion for appointing a Committee to inquire into the Post-Office.
Feb. 26. Mr Walter Plumer mov'd, 'That the Copy of
the King's Warrant, whereby Letters were permitted to pass
Post-Free, which had been laid before the House on the
19th Instant [See p. 73] might be taken into Consideration. The Warrant being accordingly read, Complaints
were made by several Members, that their Letters were not
only charged at the Post-Office, but that they were often
broke open and perused by the Clerks: That this Practice
of breaking open Letters was become frequent, and was so
publickly known, that the very End for which that Liberty
was given to the Postmaster was entirely disappointed; for
the Intention being at first to discover any treasonable Correspondence that might be carried on against the Government, that Intention was rendered altogether vain, because
by the Practice of opening Letters being so frequent, and so
well known, it was certain that no Man would carry on any
treasonable Correspondence by Means of the Post-Office; so
that the Liberty given to break open Letters at the Post-Office could now serve no Purpose, but to enable the little
Clerks about that Office to pry into the private Affairs of
every Merchant, and of every Gentleman in the Kingdom.
At last it was insisted, that the Warrant then laid before
the House was not the last Warrant granted by his Majesty,
nor the Warrant by which the Post-masters then acted; and
therefore it was moved, that a Committee be appointed to
inquire into that Affair.
Debate thereon.
Mr Plumer's Motion was supported by Mr Lisle, Mr
Heathcote, Mr Pulteney, Mr Dundass, and Mr Perry; it
was in some Measure opposed by Sir Robert Walpole, and
Mr Henry Pelham, but at last they agreeing to the Motion, provided that Committee did not inquire into any
Thing that might tend to the discovering the Secrets of the
Government; a Committee was appointed accordingly.
Sir Wal. Wagstaff Bagot's Motion for a Clause to be added to the Mutiny-Bill, relating to the inlisting of Soldiers. ; Debate thereon.
The same Day the Mutiny-Bill being reported to the
House, Sir Walter Wagstaff Bagot, Bart. stood up, and
said, 'That since the House had made such a large Addition to the Army, and seemed inclined to continue the
severe Penalties on Deserters, and the Method of recruiting
prescribed by that, and former Bills of the like Nature,
he thought it necessary to add some Clause, to make
the Bill less dangerous to the Subject: That by a Clause in
the Bill it was proposed to be enacted, as in former Bills,
that if a poor Country-Fellow should inlist with an Officer
and take his Money, and afterwards, when carried before a
Justice, refuse to declare himself inlisted and to take the Oaths
prescribed by Law, it should then be in the Power of the
Officer to send such a poor Fellow to Prison, and confine
him in a Dungeon for a whole Month, even tho' it should
appear that the poor Fellow inlisted when he was drunk,
and was willing to return the Money he had taken, and fatisfy all the Charges the Officer had been at: That this Power
of confining a Man in a Dungeon, where he might be in Danger of starving, was, he thought, too great a Power to be
intrusted absolutely in the Hands of any Officer: That it
was no way necessary for his Majesty's Service, and might
be of dangerous Consequence, because it might tempt some
Officers to practise all the inveigling Arts they could think
of, not with an Intention to recruit his Majesty's Forces,
but to compel poor Country-Fellows to give them a Sum of
Money, by way of Composition, for being discharged from
the Bargain they had made when drunk, or in a Passion,
and for being freed from the Consinement to which the
Officer had, by Law, an uncontroulable Power to subject
them: That therefore he would beg Leave to offer a Clause
to be added to the Bill, 'That every Officer, who should
thereafter inlist any Man to serve in any Regiment, should
within Days carry the Man so inlisted before some
one of the next Justices of the Peace, where the Man so
inlisted should be at Liberty to declare his Dissent, and
his having repented of what he had done; and upon his
so doing, and returning to the Officer the inlisting Money,
and the Expences the Officer had been at by inlisting him,
and carrying him before the Justice, not exceeding the
Sum of such Justice should forthwith
discharge him: And that an Officer, guilty of any Failure or Neglect in this Respect, should be liable to the
same Penalties to which Officers are made liable for false
Musters.'
Mr Bramston.
This was seconded by Mr Bramston, who informed the
House, 'That he actually knew a Case, where a poor Fellow was inveigled when he was drunk, and when he came
to be sober, repented, and therefore refused to take the
Oaths when carried before the Justice; but the Officer insisted upon his being sent to Prison, and confined for a
Month in the Terms of the Act of Parliament, tho' the
poor Fellow offered to return the inlisting Money and all
Charges; and it not being in the Power, or in the Inclination of the Justice to refuse the Officer's Demand, the
poor Fellow was accordingly sent to Jail, where he remained
for some Time; but having no Victuals nor Drink, he was
at last compelled to go before the Justice and take the Oaths
prescribed, in order to prevent his being starved.'
To this it was answer'd by General Wade, Mr Henry
Bromley, Mr Lindsay, and Mr Hay, 'That what was proposed by the Clause offered had already been taken Care of
by his Majesty's Orders for regulating the Army, for as no
Soldier could be tried upon the Mutiny-Act, unless he had
taken the Oaths prescribed by that Act before some Justice of
Peace, therefore his Majesty had given an Order to all Officers, that no Recruit should be brought to or entered in any
Regiment, 'till he had first been regularly inlisted, and had
taken the Oaths prescribed by Law, before some of his Majesty's Justices of the Peace; so that by his Majesty's Order
every Officer was obliged to do what was proposed by the
Clause offered; and as the Bill then before them was of the
same Nature with former Bills against Mutiny and Desertion,
it would be absolutely necessary to continue the same general Order to all Officers, with respect to their carrying Recruits before some Justice of Peace, therefore they thought
it was unnecessary to add any Clause for that Purpose; and
it would be attended with many Inconveniencies, particularly, that it would be sometimes impossible for an Officer to
carry a Recruit before any Justice within the Time proposed,
or within any limited Number of Days.'
To this it was replied by Sir William Wyndham, Sir
John Barnard, and Mr Sandys, 'That the very Clause then
proposed had been in several Mutiny-Bills during the Reign
of King William, tho' it was then in Time of War, and
Recruiting of Course more difficult than it could be supposed
to be at present: That the honourable Gentlemen who opposed the Clause, could not say, that by any Order his Majesty could give, the Justice of Peace was obliged to discharge the Man inlisted, upon his declaring before him his
having repented of what he had done, and returning to the
Officer the inlisting Money and all the Charges the Officer
had been at for inlisting him: That what was proposed by
the Clause was to lay an Obligation upon the Justice, and to
give a poor Fellow an Opportunity to get off upon reasonable
Terms, in case he should repent of what he had done; neither of which could be effectuated by any Order his Majesty
had given, or could give for regulating the Army: That the
Grievance complained of was, the inveigling of Men to inlist,
and making a Property of them after their having been so
inveigled: That this was a Privilege which they hoped no
Officer would insist on: That the Abolishing of this Privilege
was what the Clause offer'd chiefly aim'd at; and therefore
they hop'd the House would agree to it.
Sir Robert Walpole and Mr Henry Pelham having declared, That they would be for the Clause, if it could be
so drawn as not to be attended with any Inconvenience to
the Service; and thereupon proposed that the Debate be
adjourned till the next Day, in order that such a Clause
might be contrived: And it being admitted of the other
Side, that the Clause, as it then stood, might perhaps stand
in need of some little Amendment, it was agreed to adjourn the Debate accordingly till next Day; when the Clause
was agreed to, and added to the Mutiny-Bill.
Mr Walpole's Motion for a Subsidy of 56,250 l. to Denmark. ; Debate thereon.
Feb. 28. The House being in a Grand Committee on the
Supply, and the Treaty with Denmark, dated Sept. 19,
1734, having been referred to the said Committee, a Motion was made by Mr Horatio Walpole, 'That the Sum
of 56,250 l. be granted to his Majesty, on account of the
Subsidy to the King of Denmark, pursuant to the said Treaty, for the Service of the Year 1735.' This occasioned a
long Debate, in which Mr Walpole's Motion was supported
by Mr Winnington, Mr (fn. 1) Willes, Col. Bladen, and Sir
Robert Walpole, as follows:
Sir,
'Although we are not engaged in the present War, yet,
as the Balance of Power in Europe depends very much upon
the Event of it, we may be soon under a Necessity of joining one or other of the Parties; therefore it is incumbent
upon us to strengthen ourselves before-hand, by engaging as
many foreign Powers as we can to join with us upon such
an Event. In this Situation, it was natural to cast our Eye
first towards Denmark, the Interest of that Nation being
generally the same with our own; and at present was the
more necessary, because great Endeavours were us'd to engage that Court on the other Side of the Question, which
might have proved of the most fatal Consequence to the
Liberties of Europe, and consequently to those of this Nation.
'The Experience of the last two Wars against France
may convince us, Sir, how dangerous it is to allow any one
Power in Europe to exalt itself too much, and how expensive it may prove, to reduce a Power that has once got too
great an Ascendant over its Neighbours. The Expence,
which Great Britain is to be put to by this Treaty with
Denmark, must appear very inconsiderable to every Gentleman who considers, that we thereby not only secure the
Assistance of a powerful Kingdom, but prevent their being
engaged against us, in case the Event of the War should
make it necessary for us to join the other Side. In all Cases
it is certainly prudent upon any Emergency, to lay out a
small Sum, when it is probable we may by so doing prevent
our being afterwards brought under a Necessity of putting
ourselves to a much greater Expence: And this is the very
Case at present in relation to our Treaty with Denmark.
'It is well known, Sir, that Nations are, in all their publick Transactions, governed by their own Interest; and as
all Europe knew that great Offers were making to Denmark,
to secure them on that Side, against which we might soon
be under a Necessity to engage; therefore it became absolutely necessary for us to offer them such Terms as might
convince them, that it was more their Interest to join in
Alliance with us, than with either of the Parties concerned
in the War: I must therefore think, that the concluding this
Treaty was one of the most prudent Steps his Majesty could
take, and the Conditions on our Part are so reasonable, that
I think every Gentleman in this House must approve of
them; and therefore, I hope, this Motion will be agreed to
without Opposition.'
Mr Walpole's Motion was oppos'd by Sir William Wyndham, Mr Pulteney, Sir John Barnard, Mr Sandys, Mr
Shippen, and Sir John Hynde Cotton, who alledg'd the following Arguments against the Motion.
Sir,
'I am glad to hear that we are as yet no way engaged in
the War; if it be so, I am sure it is ridiculous to put the
Nation to a great Expence, to provide against a Danger
which may never happen. As we have no particular Interest of our own for inducing us to engage in the present
War, but only the Danger the Balance of Power may be in
by that Event: And as all the Powers of Europe are as
much, or more, interested in the Preservation of that Balance than we are; if it should come to be in any real
Danger, they would certainly engage in its Defence, without receiving any valuable Consideration from us; but if
we should be always the first to take the Alarm upon any
War's breaking out, and offer Bribes and Pensions to all the
Princes in Europe, the whole Charge of preserving that Balance would fall upon this Nation; and each of them would,
upon every such Occasion, expect a Bribe or a Pension from
England, for doing that which he would otherwise be obliged
to do for his own Preservation: Even the Dutch may at last
refuse to assist, when the Balance of Power is really in Danger, unless we submit to make the Grand Pensionary of Holland a Pensionary of England, and take a Number of their
Forces into English Pay.
'It is really surprising, Sir, to hear Gentlemen talk of
the Balance of Power's being in Danger, and that we must
already begin to provide for its Preservation, when there is
not a Prince or State in Europe, who seems to apprehend
any such Matter. The Dutch have not put themselves to
one Shilling Expence on account of the present War, or for
that Mediation they are engaged in as well as we. The
Princes and States of Germany are so far from being apprehensive of any Danger, by the Event of the present War,
that some of the most considerable of them have actually engaged in a Neutrality. Even the King of Denmark, whom
we have thought necessary to engage by a considerable yearly
Pension, is himself a Prince of the Empire, and would certainly suffer, by the Overturning the Balance of Power in
Europe, much sooner than this Nation would; and therefore
we must conclude, that it is more immediately his Interest to
engage, not only in Defence of that Balance, but in Defence
of the Empire; yet we, it seems, have been so generous as
to promise to reward him bountifully for doing what is absolutely necessary for his own Preservation. This, Sir, is a
most pernicious Example, it may at last bring the Balance
of Power into real Danger, because it may tempt all the
Princes of Europe to neglect it, until we grant them yearly
Pensions for taking Care of it; and perhaps this very Precedent has now provoked all the other Princes of Germany
to stand off, on Purpose to engage us to extend our Bounty
in the same Manner to each of them.
'To tell us, Sir, that if we had not entered into this
Treaty with the King of Denmark, he might have been
prevailed on to have concluded a Treaty with another
Power, which might have been prejudicial to us, is, in my
Opinion, very odd. Princes, 'tis true, Sir, do not always
see their real Interests, but if we resolve upon every Occacasion to clear their Eyesight by a Pension, I am afraid none
of them will ever open their Eyes without receiving some
such Remedy from us. We are never to suppose that any
Prince of Europe will engage against the Liberties of Europe,
or will perform any former Engagement, when the Performance comes to be apparently inconsistent with the Liberties
of Europe, and consequently with his own Independency,
unless he be very much blinded by some particular Interest
of his own: And of all the Princes of Europe the King of
Denmark is, in this Respect, the least liable to any Temptation; there are several other Princes of Europe, who may
be tempted to join with those who have Designs against the
Liberties of Europe; because they may be made from thence
to expect some Addition to their own Dominions; and these
are the Princes upon whom we ought to have a watchful
Eye; these are the Princes, if any, upon whom we ought
to bestow our Pensions, in order to keep them firm to the
general Interest of Europe. If we had by any Subsidy engaged the Duke of Bavaria in an Alliance; if we had by
any Subsidy disengaged the King of Sardinia from his present Allies; or if we had laid out a Sum of Money in engaging the Polanders to make such a Choice of a King, as
would have prevented the breaking out of the War, (and
perhaps a less Sum might have done than the Expence we
have been at on account of the War) there might have been
some Reason for our being at such an Expence; but I can
see no Advantage we can expect, from the Expence we are
to be at, on account of this Treaty with Denmark.
'I shall readily agree with the honourable and learned
Gentleman [Mr Willes] that Nations are entirely governed
by their own Interest; but as it is the Interest of Denmark,
as much as it is the Interest of this Nation, to preserve the
Balance of Power in Europe, therefore I must think it was
quite unnecessary for us to give them a Fee for doing so:
I shall indeed grant, that they were in the Right to take it,
for, I believe, few will refuse to take a Fee for that, which
is both their Duty and Interest to do without any Reward.
As I have a great Opinion of the Honour and the Penetration both of the King and the Ministers of Denmark, I must
conclude they would never have entered into any Engagements, that were inconsistent with the Liberties of Europe; I must conclude they will always be ready, without
any Fee or Reward, to join with all their Force in the Preservation of the Balance of Power, whenever it shall appear
to be in any real Danger. Consequently it was altogether
unnecessary for us to enter into any such Treaty as that now
before us, or to promise any such Subsidy as is by that Treaty stipulated; and therefore, as one of the Representatives
of the People, to whom they have entrusted the laying out
their Money, in the most frugal Manner, I cannot agree to
such an unnecessary Expence as what is now proposed.'
Upon this Sir Joseph Jekyll, and Mr Howe declar'd,
'That they approved of the Treaty as little as any Gentlemen did: That tho' they thought it was altogether unnecessary, to put the Nation to such an Expence 'till the Danger
became more apparent, yet as it was the first Treaty his
Majesty had concluded upon the present Emergency, they
would agree to the Motion; because if that House should not
agree with what his Majesty had done with respect to that
Treaty, it might be, at such a Conjuncture, of the most
dangerous Consequence to the Liberties of Europe, by encouraging the ambitious Views which some of the Parties engaged in War may now have, or hereafter form to themselves, and by discouraging any of the Princes or States of
Europe from entering into any Treaties with his Majesty,
even tho' the Circumstances of Europe should then absolutely
require such Treaties to be concluded.'
Then the Question being put for agreeing with the Motion, it was carried in the Affirmative, by 270 to 178.
Sir J. Barnard moves for a Bill for restraining the Number of Play Houses. ; Debate thereon.
March 5. Sir John Barnard mov'd for bringing in a Bill,
for restraining the Number of Houses for playing of Interludes, and for the better regulating Common Players of Interludes. In Support of this Motion he represented the Mischief done to the City of London by the Play-Houses, in
corrupting the Youth, encouraging Vice and Debauchery,
and being prejudicial to Trade and Industry; and how much
these Evils would be increas'd, if another Play-House should
be built in the very Heart (fn. 2) of the City.' Sir John Barnard
was seconded by Mr Sandys, and supported by Mr Pulteney, Sir Robert Walpole, Sir Joseph Jekyll, Sir Thomas
Saunderson, and several other Members; Mr James Ereskine in particular reckon'd up the Number of Play-Houses
then in London, viz. The Opera-House, the French PlayHouse in the Hay-Market, and the Theatres in Covent-Garden, Drury-Lane, Lincoln's-Inn-Fields, and Goodman'sFields; and added, 'That it was no less surprizing than shameful, to see so great a Change for the worse in the Temper and
Inclinations of the British Nation, who were now so extravagantly addicted to lewd and idle Diversions, that the Number of Play-Houses in London was double to that of Paris;
That we now exceeded in Levity even the French themselves, from whom we learned these and many other ridiculous Customs, as much unsuitable to the Mein and Manners
of an Englishman or a Scot, as they were agreeable to the Air
and Levity of a Monsieur: That it was astonishing to all
Europe, that Italian Eunuchs and Singers should have set Salaries, equal to those of the Lords of the Treasury and Judges of England. After this it was order'd, Nem. Con. That
a Bill be brought in pursuant to Sir John Barnard's Motion;
which was done accordingly: But it was afterwards dropt,
on Account of a Clause offer'd to be inserted in the said Bill,
for enlarging the Power of the Lord Chamberlain, with Regard to the Licensing of Plays.
Mr Bramston's Motion for restraining the Counsel from offering Evidence, touching the Right of Election for any Place, contrary to the last Determination of the House.
March 7. Mr Bramston moved, 'That the Clause of an
Act made in the second Year of his present Majesty's Reign,
intitled, An Act for the more effectual preventing Bribery
and Corruption in the Elections of Members to serve in Parliament, which relates to the last Determination in the
House of Commons, concerning Votes for Members to serve
in Parliament for any County, City, Borough, Cinque-Port,
or Place; with the Clause relating to the Oath to be taken
by returning Officers, should be read; and the same having
been read accordingly, Mr Bramston stood up again, and
spoke as follows:
Mr Speaker,
'By the Clause of the Act now read to you, it appears,
that the last Determination of the House of Commons, with
regard to the Right of voting at any Election, is declared to
be final to all Intents and Purposes whatsoever, any Usage
to the contrary notwithstanding; so that in all future Disputes
about any Election for the same Place, the last Determination of this House is the Rule, by which the Right of voting
is to be determined, and against which no Arguments, nor
any Proof can be admitted: This I take to be now the Law
of the Land, and consequently is binding as well upon this
House, as upon every Gentleman who has been since that
Act, or may hereafter be concerned in any Election.
'At all Times, Sir, and particularly in such a dangerous
Conjuncture as the present, it is incumbent upon us to establish among the People a good Opinion of the Impartiality,
Integrity, and Justice of this House in all our Proceedings.
With Respect to State Affairs, especially such as relate to
Foreign Transactions, the Facts are not publickly known,
nor can the Motives or Arguments for or against any Question relating to them be understood by the Vulgar; and therefore in such Questions it is not easy for the People in general
to comprehend the Debates; nor would it be possible for
them to discover the Injustice or the Partiality of our Proceedings, were it possible for this House to be guilty of any
such. But in all our Proceedings relating to Elections, the
People in general, or at least those who live in the Neighbourhood of the Place where any Dispute happens about an
Election, know every Circumstance, and are as capable of
judging of the Motives or Arguments for or against most of
the Questions that occur upon such Occasions, as any Member of this House: And when the People observe a Contradiction in our Determinations relating to such Affairs; when
they observe the Right of voting at an Election given by this
House to one Sort of People, and in the very next Session,
perhaps, that Right determined by this House to be in a
quite different Sort of People, they must conclude, that the
Determination of this House in relation to that Affair did
not proceed from Justice and Impartiality, but from private
Interest, or from Party-Zeal. This is the Conclusion they
must necessarily form with Respect to those Affairs they
know, and can judge of; and the Misfortune is, that they
from thence naturally conclude, that our Proceedings are governed by the same Motives in those Affairs which they do
not know, nor can judge of.
'To prevent an Effect so dangerous to our Constitution
was, I believe, Sir, one of the chief Motives for inserting
the Clause now read to you in the Act of Parliament, and
Care has been taken to express it in Terms so strong and
explicit, that it cannot, in my Opinion, be evaded by any
Artifice or Subterfuge. It is now the Law of the Land;
a Law so reasonable, that I hope it will never be altered or
repealed; and a Law so plain, that I can make no Doubt,
but that the last Determination of the House of Commons
will, for the future, be, in all such Cases, a Rule from
which we cannot depart. However, Sir, as some Gentlemen are not sufficiently apprised of this Law, or may entertain Hopes that this House will not, in their future Determinations, strictly adhere to it, they may therefore put them
selves to great Expence in bringing up Witnesses, and may
take up a great deal of your Time with Arguments to shew,
that the Right of voting at any Election now disputed, is not
in those People only, in whom it was declared to be by the
last Determination of this House: This will be putting themselves to great Expence, and taking up the Time of this
House to no Purpose, since the last Determination of the
House of Commons is now by Law established as a Rule,
from which we cannot depart, notwithstanding the clearest
Proof of any Usage to the contrary.
'As we ought, Sir, to prevent Gentlemen putting themselves to any needless Expence, as we ought to prevent their
attempting to take up the Time of this House to no Purpose,
therefore I think this Law ought to be some way reviv'd, not
only to put Gentlemen in mind of it, but to shew them
that we are resolved to adhere to it in the strictest Manner;
and as the only proper way for us to revive any Law, is by
coming to some new Resolution in relation to it, therefore I
hope the House will agree to the following Motion, which
is, 'That the Counsel at the Bar of this House, or before
the Committee of Privileges and Elections, be restrained
from offering Evidence, touching the Right of Election of
Members to serve in Parliament for any City, Borough or
Place, contrary to the last Determination in the House
of Commons; which Determination, by an Act passed in
the second Year of his present Majesty's Reign, intitled,
An Act for the effectual preventing Bribery and Corruption
in thè Election of Members to serve in Parliament, is made
final to all Intents and Purposes whatsoever, any Usage
to the contrary notwithstanding.'
Debate thereon.
This Motion being seconded by Mr Sandys, and supported
by Mr Walter Plumer: The same was objected to by Mr
Horatio Walpole, Mr Henry Pelham, and Sir William
Yonge, who did not directly oppose the Motion itself, but
proposed the Delaying of it a few Days, as follows.
Sir,
'I must own, I have not lately considered the Clause
now read to you, and therefore am not prepared now to
speak to it: But upon the first View, I take the Motion to
be of the utmost Consequence, because I look upon it as a
Restraint designed to be put upon the Jurisdiction of this
House in the most material Point, that of determining all
Questions relating to electing the Members of our own
House. I really never imagined, that the Intention of that
Act, or of any Clause in it, was to restrain the House of
Commons, with respect to their Determinations in Matters
of Election; for in all such Determinations I think we ought
not to be under any Limitation, nor confined by any Rule;
and if there had been any such Intention, I believe this
House would never have agreed to the Bill, or at least that
Clause by which any such Restraint was intended to be laid
upon this House.
'It is for this Reason, Sir, that I have always imagin'd,
and still think, that the Clause now read to you relates only
to Returning Officers, and was designed as a Direction to
them, what Sort of Persons they were to admit to vote at
any Election; with respect to which they were by this
Clause obliged to take the last Determination of the House
of Commons, as a Rule to be inviolably observed by them
at all succeeding Elections. This, Sir, I must still think,
is all that was designed by the Clause; for it is certain,
that if in all future disputed Elections, we were to take the
last Determination of this House as an infallible Rule for our
Conduct, a very great Injury would thereby be done to a
great many Cities and Boroughs in England; and I cannot
imagine that it was ever the original Intention of any Act
of Parliament to do an Injury to any one, much less to great
Numbers of his Majesty's Subjects.
However, Sir, as I have not lately read or considered the
Act, I will not now pretend to be positive in my Opinion,
and therefore I hope the honourable Gentlemen will agree
to put off the Consideration of this Motion to some short
Day, to Monday next if they please, that other Gentlemen
as well as myself may have Time to consider it, before we
are obliged to give our Opinion in a Case which is certainly
of great Consequence.'
To this it was reply'd by Sir Joseph Jekyll:
Sir J. Jekyll.
Sir,
'As I had the Honour to be a Member of this House
when the Clause now under Consideration had the good
Fortune to pass, I well remember the History of it: This
Clause was not originally in the Bill, but was put into it by
the other House, and I believe, with a View to prevent the
Passing of it; or at least that it was the Intention of those
who first contrived this Clause; for they imagined that this
House would never agree to such an Amendment: But when
the Bill came back to this House, the Gentlemen who promoted the Bill were so justly fond of it, that they chose to
agree to all the Amendments made by the other House,
and this among the rest, rather than lose so good a Bill. Indeed as to this Clause they had a very good Reason for
agreeing to it; for tho' it did lay some Restraint upon the
Jurisdiction of this House in Matters of Election, yet the
Majority of the House then thought it a reasonable Restraint, and even a necessary Restraint, in order to prevent,
in Time to come, that frequent Contradiction in our Determinations with respect to Elections, which had in Time past
greatly contributed to the giving People a contemptible Opinion of all the Proceedings of this House.
'The Clause now read to you, Sir, is so full, and conceived in Terms so plain and easy to be understood, that I am
surprised to hear any Gentleman desire an Hour to consider
of it; but I am still more surprised to hear any Gentleman,
especially a Gentleman who has often attended the Committee of Elections, say, he imagined this Clause was intended only as a Direction to Returning Officers, what Sort
of People they were to admit to poll at any Election; because this very Direction was given by Act of Parliament
many Years ago to all Sheriffs and Returning Officers: So
long ago as the eighth Year of King William's Reign, all
Sheriffs and Returning Officers have been prohibited, by an
Act then made, to return any Member to serve in Parliament, contrary to the last Determination in the House of
Commons, as to the Right of Election for such Places;
and therefore it would have been ridiculous to have inserted
in a late Act such a Clause as that now before us, if no
more had been intended by it, than to give the same Directions to Sheriffs and other Returning Officers, which were
given to them by a former Act then in full Force: But,
without any such Consideration, the Clause before us is in
itself so clearly expressed, that it is impossible to mistake its
Meaning; and as the honourable Gentleman intends nothing
by his Motion but to prevent Gentlemens putting themselves to a needless Expence, and giving this House an unnecessary Trouble, I can see no Reason why we should make
any Difficulty in agreeing to what he has proposed.
'Can Gentlemen be serious, Sir, when they say that this
House is not to be confined by any Rules; that we ought
not to be under any Restraint, with respect to our Determinations about the Election of our own Members; and
that this House would never have agreed to the Clause, if
any such Thing had been intended? Our Determinations
in such Cases are, 'tis true, supreme and final; but surely,
Sir, even in such Cases we are confined by the Rules of natural Justice and Equity, and likewise by the antient Customs and the Laws of the Kingdom. Let a Court of Judicature be as absolute and supreme as can be imagined,
yet I should have a very bad Opinion of the Judges of that
Court, if they confined themselves to no Rules, nor even
to those Laws they themselves had before made for their
future Conduct. I do not know but some of the Cities
and Boroughs of England may have been injured by the last
Determination of this House, and in such a Case it is a
Hardship to make that injurious Determination absolute and
final as to them in all Time to come; but if there were any
such injurious Determinations made, it is the more necessary by a Law to put a Stop to them. The Hardship is
already put upon them; the Law is already passed; it is
now one of the established Laws of the Kingdom, and cannot therefore be altered or amended by any Resolution of
this House: It is not the first Time that a Hardship has
been put upon particular Men for the Good of the Society
in general; but in this Case, if any City or Borough has
been injured by the last Determination of the House of Commons, and that Injury fix'd upon them by the Law now
under our Consideration, they may apply to Parliament for
Relief, and will certainly obtain an Act of Parliament for
that Purpose, which is the only Method by which they can
now be relieved; so that the Hardship, if any has been put
upon them, cannot come under our Consideration in the
present Question.
'However, Sir, tho' I do not think it at all necessary to
take a Day to consider of the present Motion, yet I shall
not be against it; because I wish it were made a standing
Order of this House, that no Motion should be taken into
Consideration or agreed to the same Day it is made: For
this Reason I shall not be against adjourning the Debate 'till
Monday, according to the honourable Gentleman's Desire;
and I agree to it the rather, because I hope when the Motion has been fully and maturely considered, it will be unanimously agreed to: But, on other Occasions, I hope those
Gentleman will shew the same Complaisance to others, and
will not insist, that any Motion they may hereafter think
fit to make shall be immediately taken into Consideration;
for if this should be made a Rule for one Side, and not for
the other, it would be as partial a Method of Proceeding
as was ever practised by former Parliaments in their Determinations about Elections.'
It was ordered accordingly, that the farther Consideration
of that Question should be adjourned to the Monday Morning next, when the Motion was amended thus: 'That the
Counsel at the Bar of this House, or before the Committee
of Privileges and Elections, be restrained from offering Evidence, touching the Legality of Votes for Members to
serve in Parliament, for any County, Shire, City, Borough,
Cinque-Port, or Place, contrary to the last Determination
of the House of Commons: Which Determination, by an
Act passed in the second Year of his present Majesty's
Reign, intitled, An Act for the more effectual preventing
Bribery and Corruption, in the Election of Members to serve
in Parliament, is made final to all Intents and Purposes
whatsoever, any Usage to the contrary notwithstanding.'
And then it was agreed to without any farther Debate.
A Bill ordered to be brought in, for limiting the Number of Officers in the House of Commons, upon Mr Sandys's Motion.
March 19. Upon the Motion of Mr Sandys, it was order'd, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill for the better
securing the Freedom of Parliaments, by limiting the Number of Officers in the House of Commons; and Mr Sandys,
Mr Wortley, Mr Howe, Sir John Hynde Cotton, Mr Watkin
Williams Wynne, and Sir William Lowther, were ordered
to prepare and bring in the same.
March 21. The said Bill was presented to the House by
Mr Sandys.
The Resolutions of the Committee appointed to inquire into the Complaints relating to the Post-Office.
April 16. The Report from the Committee appointed to
inquire into the Complaint relating to the Post-Office, being
taken into Consideration, the Resolutions of the said Committee were as follows; viz. I. That the Privilege of franking Letters by the Knights, Citizens and Burgesses, chosen to
represent the Commons in Parliament, began with the erecting a Post-Office within this Kingdom, by Act of Parliament. II. That all Letters, not exceeding two Ounces,
signed by the proper Hand of, or directed to any Member
of this House, during the sitting of every Session of Parliament, and forty Days before and forty Days after every
Summons or Prorogation, ought to be carried and delivered
freely and safely from all Parts of Great Britain and Ireland
without any Charge of Postage. III. That it is an high Infringement of the Privilege of the Knights, Citizens and Burgesses, chosen to represent the Commons of Great Britain
in Parliament, for any Post-master, his Deputies or Agents,
in Great Britain or Ireland, to detain or delay, open or look
into, by any Means whatsoever, any Letter directed to, or
signed by the proper Hand of any Member, without an
express Warrant in Writing, under the Hand of one of the
Principal Secretaries of State, for every such Detaining, Delaying, Opening, or Looking into. IV. That all Letters
directed to any Member of this House at any Place within
the Bills of Mortality, be carried by the proper Officers of
the Post-Office to the House or Lodgings of such Member,
or to the Lobby of the House of Commons. V. That it
is a notorious Breach of the Privilege of the House of Commons, for any Person to counterfeit the Hand, or put the
Name of any Member of the House of Commons upon any
Letter, in order to prevent its being charged with the Duty
of Postage. VI. That such Persons as shall presume to do
the same, ought to be proceeded against with the utmost
Severity.
The first two of these Resolutions were agreed to, and on
the 25th the third Resolution was amended thus: viz. That
it is an high Infringement of the Privilege of the Knights,
Citizens and Burgesses, chosen to represent the Commons of
Great Britain in Parliament, for any Post-Master, his Deputies or Agents, in Great Britain or Ireland, to open or look
into, by any Means whatsoever, any Letter directed to, or
signed by the proper Hand of any Member, without an express Warrant in Writing, under the Hand of one of the
principal Secretaries of State, for every such Opening or
Looking into; or to detain or delay any Letter, directed to,
or signed with the Name of any Member, unless there shall
be just Reason to suspect some Counterfeit of it, without an
express Warrant of a principal Secretary of State as aforesaid, for every such Detaining or Delaying.
Which are agreed to by the House.
Then the three other Resolutions were severally read a
second Time, and agreed to, without any Amendment.
Debate on a Motion for committing the Bill for limiting the Number of Officers in the House of Commons.
April 22. The Bill for limiting the Number of Officers
to sit in the House of Commons being read a second Time;
and a Motion being made for committing the same, there
ensued a great Debate. The chief Speakers for committing
the Bill were Mr John Pitt, Mr Boone, Mr Lyttleton, Lord
Polwarth, Mr Hume Campbell, Sir Joseph Jekyll, Sir William Wyndham, and Sir John Hynde Cotton. The Speakers against committing it were Mr Stephen Fox, Hon.
Mr Stephen Cornwallis, Mr Lewis, (of Hampshire) Mr
Hanbury Williams, Hon. Mr Robert Byng, Mr Lindsay, Mr Oglethorp, Mr Danvers, Mr Thomas Corbet,
Hon. Mr Henry Pelham, General Wade, Sir Robert Walpole, and Mr Rider the Solicitor General.
But the Question being at last put for committing the
Bill, it was carried in the Negative by 216, against 192.
May, 15. The King came to the House of Peers, and
the Commons being sent for and attending, his Majesty gave
the Royal Assent to several Bills: After which he put an
End to the Session with the following Speech to both Houses.
The King's Speech at putting an End to the first Session.
My Lords and Gentlemen,
"I Am glad the Business of this Session of Parliament is
brought to such a Conclusion, that I have now an
Opportunity of giving you some Recess, after the great
Pains you have taken in the Service of your Country. On
this Occasion I must in Justice return you My Thanks for
the many Instances you have given Me of your Duty and
Affection to My Person and Government, and for the
necessary Provisions you have made for the Publick Security, as far as the immediate Circumstances of Affairs
might require.
"I have considered with great Care and Attention the
present Situation of Europe, and duly weighed the Consequences, that may arise from the Progress of the War,
either by means of its becoming more general, or continuing only to be carried on between the Powers already
engaged.
"An Accommodation of these unhappy Troubles appeared to be the best Means to prevent the Dangers, that
are to be apprehended on either Side. In this View, a
Plan of Pacification was concerted between Me and the
States General with great Impartiality, and not without
reasonable Grounds to hope for Success, altho' it hath not
had the desired Effect.
"But all future Resolutions, to be taken in this important and critical Conjuncture, must be principally determined by future Events: This makes it impossible for Me,
at present, to take the previous Advice and Concurrence
of My Parliament in such Measures, as may become absolutely necessary to be entered into. But you may be
assured, that My constant Concern for the Publick Welfare, the Liberties of Europe, and, in particular, for the
Felicity and Security of these Kingdoms, will never suffer Me to take any Steps, but such as the Honour and
Interest of My Crown and People shall call for and justify; and in the Pursuit of these great and desirable
Ends, I do, with the best grounded Confidents, promise
Myself your zealous and affectionate Support.
Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"I return you My hearty Thank for the Supplies you
have, with so much Chearfulness and Dispatch, granted
for the Service of the current Year, which have been so
effectually raised, and accompanied with so seasonable an
Augmentation of Our Forces by Sea and Land, that I
shall be in a Condition to make use of them, in the most
advantageous Manner, for the Publick Service, as any Occasion, that may happen to arise, shall require."
My Lords and Gentlemen,
"The Conduct and Prudence of this Parliament, in a
Time of so great Difficulty, cannot be enough commended. The Posture of Affairs before us required all possible
Resolution, joined with Caution, neither to be unwarily
involved in the present Disturbances, nor to remain unprovided against those Dangers, which are too obvious to
stand in Need of any Explanation, and may either directly
or remotely affect Us.
"As I think it necessary this Summer to visit My Dominions in Germany, it is My Intention to appoint the
Queen Regent here during My Absence; of whose just
and prudent Administration you have on the like Occasion
had Experience. Let Me earnestly recommend it to you,
to render the Burden of this weighty Trust as easy to Her
as possible, by making it your constant Study and Endeavour, as I am sure it is your Inclination, to preserve the
Peace of the Kingdom, and to discountenance and suppress all Attempts to raise groundless Discontents in the
Minds of My People, whose Happiness hath always
been, and shall continue My daily and uninterrupted
Care."
The Parliament prorogued.
Then the Lord Chancellor, by his Majesty's Command,
prorogued the Parliament to the 12th of June: They were
afterwards farther prorogued to the 15th of January.