House of Commons Journal Volume 1
09 May 1621

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 09 May 1621', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 615-616. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=3830 Date accessed: 30 July 2014.


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Mercurii, 9 Maii

Proctors.

L. 1a. - PROCTOR - Upon Question, rejected.

Executors, &c.

L. 1a. An Act for Recovery of Debts against Executors and Administrators, and Ease of Sheriffs.

Transporting Money.

Mr. Snelling: - That 50,000 l. yearly transported to Danske, and there minted : - This done by the Dutch: - And hinder 50,000l. more in Cloths Transportation:

This done, by Colour of Bills of Exchange. - Tendereth a Bill for Help of it.

Court of Chancery.

Regulating the Court of Chancery : - This Afternoon, in the former Place.

Committees.

Sale of Lands in Fletton: - Friday next, in the Afternoon, in the former Place.

Bill of Jurors, - on Friday next, in the former Place,

Hogan's Fine.

L. 1a. An Act for the Declaring of the Uses of a Fine, levied by Ro. Hogan, his Majesty's Ward, during his Minority, and dying before his full Age; and for the Preventing of all Fines, Recoveries, and Assurances, to be had and obtained from Infants, being Wards.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle, - against the Bill. - That Hogan, wanted not above Four or Five Weeks of 21 Years: The Fine by his own Desire. The Consideration of 10s. was only, for Power for himself to redeem. - This dangerous for avoiding Fines. - This, by Writ of Error in King's Bench affirmed, made good, in Star-chamber, and twice affirmed in Chancery.

..... - Fit to examine this by a Committee.

Sir Geor. Moore: - If this concerned only the Lady, would consent, not only to the Retaining, but Passing, it : - But not to entertain it, in respect of the Danger of avoiding Fines, and that it hath been examined by so many Courts. - To reject it.

Mr. Denney: - A Mischief better than an Inconvenience. This Cause handled in many Courts. - Dangerous - avoid Fines.

Mr. Sotwell, contra. - Fit to relieve here a Mischief apparent, procured by Practice. - To retain it,

Mr. Wentworth : - Allegations not to be admitted, not appearing in the Bill. The Relief fit here, and no where else : Therefore no Reason to reject it here, because handled in other Cases.

Sir H. Poole, accordant. - If the Suggestions of the Bill shall prove true, shall have his Voice to pass. - Voucheth Longes Case ; where, upon Proof of Practice, Fines avoided by Order in Chancery.

An Act for the Declaring of the Uses of a Fine, levied by Ro. Hogan, his Majesty's Ward, during his Minority, and dying before his full Age ; and for the Preventing of all Fines, Recoveries, and Assurances, to be had and obtained from Infants, being Wards.

Navigation, &c.

L.1a. An Act for the Maintenance and Increase of Navigation, and to prevent the Exportation of Coin.

Imprisonment.

The Bill for Imprisonment, - Tuesday next. Two of the Clock, at the former Place.

Fees in Courts.

L. 1a. An Act for Reformation of the excessive Fees taken by Persons in Places of Judicature, Practisers in the Common and Civil Laws, Clerks, Registers, &c. as well within the high Court of Parliament, as other inferior Courts of Justice, through all this Kingdom of England.

Conference.

The Sub committee, for the Conference, to meet Tomorrow Afternoon in the Court of Wards, Eight of the Clock; and special Caution, the Committee conceal their Conference and Resolutions; and to have there the Copy of the Judgment and of the Message sent by the Lords.

Irish Cattle.

L. 2a. - Irish Cattle.

Sir Rich. Gravenor: - This Importation of Cattle a great Robbing of our Coin, and spoileth all the near adjacent Countries to them. That 5 or 6,000 Cattle imported in the Port of Chester last Year. These carry over nothing but ready Money. The Irish undersell us much. Land by this Means fall 20 in the 100.

Sir H. Curwen: - To stop their Coming in also at Port Patricke.

Mr. Wentworth.- - (That the Penalty, to be sued for in any Court of Record, crosseth our Provision in the Billof Informers. - To limit it before Justices of Assise, or Justices of Peace.-The Question, whether fit to make Cattle dearer. - Therefore to provide only for the Employment of their Money after Sale.

Sir Edw. Sands; - Principally to respect the general of the Commonwealth. - A Member oft cut off, for preserving the whole Body.

Sir Jo. Jephson,: - That Importation of these Cattle bringeth a great Cheapness ; - But not Exportation, of Coin, further than fit. - That Ireland receiveth all Apparel, Houshold-stuff, out of England. - Not to hinder Trade with Ireland.

(Mr. Secretary; - That a Fallacy in Sir Jo. Jephson's Speech. - That greater Sums, by far, carried over thither than fit. That a Dearth better, where groweth not from Want of Money.)

Sir Ro. Phillippes, - for the Bill. - Cattle, never the cheaper with them for * Importation; and yet have, this last Year, carried out of their Country 20,000 l. at least. - Mar the Breed of the Cattle.

Mr. Neale: - That out of Devon they have 200 Sail of Ships yearly go for the Newfound-land; which, for most Part, victualled out of Ireland. Beef dearer with them now, than heretofore. - That, for this Purpose, those Ports in Devon may have Benefit of Beef and Tallow for their Ships.

Mr. Towerson: - That Beef and Mutton here, in and about London, so dear, as many thousands scarce know the Taste of Flesh. This will make it dearer.

(Sir Wm. Gray: - To make a Provision likewise against bringing in Scottish Cattle.)

(Mr. Whytson; - That the Merchant, that goeth into Ireland, must needs have above 6s. 8d. in his Purse; for then shall be enforced to sell their Goods, at 20 per Cent. Loss, to raise Money)

Sir Edw. Coke: - That this Law striketh at the Root of Exportation. - To commit it.

Sir Edw. Wardor: - Inconvenient, absolutely to prohibit, Importation of Cattle, in respect of the Dearness of Beef here. - To limit them to -

Sir D. Digges : - Against the common Good, to impoverish us, and enrich Ireland, by carrying away our Money. Their Lands improve, ours decay. - (If want here, let our Merchants fetch it there.)

Sir Edw. Sackvyle, accordant. - Not to have our Cattle here at so low a Price as the Gentleman and Farmer, here may live.

(Mr. Weston ; - Cattle cheap with them, yet Beef dear here: That the Fault of the Governors of London.)

(Sir Wm. Herberte: - That, if Provision be not made, it will undo all Wales

Mr. Kippax; - To provide against Importation out of the Isle of Mann.

Committed - all the Knights and Burgesses of Wales, Sir Jo. Jephson, Sir Ro. Phillippes, Sir Wm. Herberte, Sir Francis Fane, Mr. Fetherston, Sir Ch. Mountague, Sir H. Withrington, Sir D. Digges, Sir Edw. Sands : - All, that come, to have Voice : - Tuesday next, Star-chamber.

Wales.

L. 3a - 34 H. VIII. - Wales. - Upon Question, passed.

Quarrel between Members.

Mr. Glanvyle : That, upon Monday was sevennight, he sat by Sir Ch. Morrison and Mr. Coke: that, the Glass Patent being then in Question at the Committee, Sir Ch. Morrison fell into an old Rhyme,- and, being out of it, asked him how the rest was ; and he repeated the Two last Verses, of "Asses and Glasses." That some Words passed after between them, which he heard not.

Mr. Glanvyle asked, whether, after the Words of the Rhyme, he heard no Words further between them; - nor observed any Discontent about it; but thought it had been taken as well by Mr. Coke as it was by himself.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - That he, that hath stricken the Other, that is the Affront to the House ; for ought not to have stricken upon any Occasion; but should, if wronged, have complained to the House. - Here no Swordmen; but Men of Peace, to make Laws.

Mr. Whitby: - If Matter of Provocation in the House, then the Fault of the Blow extenuated: If no Witnesses to the Provocation, then the Credit of the Parties on both Sides, affirming or denying, to be weighed.

Sir S. Sands .- - That Mr. Coke took it ill, the Mentioning of Judges riding upon Asses, - Judges, in his Memory, rode upon Mules: So the Lord Treasurer and Lord Keeper. - Mr. Coke's Fault, to take this worse than meant. - The Blow confessed. - To admit no Testimony of any, not of the House, without Oath; whereof, no Question, but we have Power, considering it is of a Thing without our Jurisdiction.

Mr. Recorder : - No doubt but we may give an Oath now; yet no need, because the Witnesses of the Provocation (which only doubtful) are Judges, and not to be sworn. The Giving of an Oath not fitting now.

Mr. Solicitor : - No Question of our Power to give an Oath; yet not convenient now, except special Cause.

Mr. Crew: - We a Court of Record : An Oath incident ; as a Court Baron to a Manor. - Precedents for it; yet considerable how now to use it.

Sir D. Digges: - The Fact confessed. No just Cause, out of Mr. Coke's own Relation, to believe any Occasion from Sir Ch. Morrison, to take it ill. - Not to press too much against Sir Ch. M. lest that occasion the House to be too sharp against Mr. Coke.

Mr. Wentworth: - If Mr. Coke cannot make Proof of the Provocation - That Justice Crooke, in his Report, - that the Commons House may take a Recognizance, as well as the Upper House. - To send Mr. Coke to the Tower.

Sir Tho. Row: - Apparent, by Mr. Glanvyle's Report, that Sir Ch. M. spake not the Words of " Asses and Glasses." - That he most unwilling to submit to Satisfaction, therefore like to be most guilty. - To commit him to the Tower; and there to continue, till he offer such Satisfaction to Sir Ch. Morrison, as the House shall think fit.

Sir Edw. Wardor, accordant, for the Punishment.

Mr. Whitby: - That Mr. Coke humbly submitteth himself to the Censure of the House: Acknowlegeth he is heartily sorry for his Offence to the House : Justifieth the Provocation by Sir Ch. M. - That, if Sir Ch. M. will confess he meant no Disgrace in the Words he used, then he will confess, he is sorry for that he hath done to Sir Ch. Morrison, &c.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - That theExtenuators of Mr. Coke's Fault against this House aggravate it. - The Respect to his Father would, in his Private, make him much incline to Mr. Coke; - cannot do it, as a Judge. Is satisfied Sir Ch. M. never intended the least Provocation to Mr. Coke. - That, to keep Mr. Coke in the Tower, till he make Satisfaction, is to enforce him to it; which not for Sir Ch. Morrison's Honour. - To send him to the Tower only.

Sir Geor. Moore: - The Offence great, to strike a Parliament-man, of * Eminency, in Parliament-time, and so near the Parliament house. - To commit him, and without an " until," during the Pleasure of the House; and, if then he shall desire Favour, let it proceed from himself. - To send him to the Tower.

Sir Geor. Manners, accordant: - And to appoint some Course for Satisfaction; because, when the Parliament dissolved, the Cause of Mischief will else remain.

Sir Edw. Rodney: - Some Things, in this Quarrel, transcendant. - Breach of the Peace by Parliament-men, sedente Parliamento. - This the fittest Place to judge of Matter of Honour. - The Injury remaineth upon the Person of him that receiveth the Blow.

Mr. Finch agreeth with the Punishment of Mr. Coke. - But to have a Reparation of Sir Ch. Morrison s Honour. Yet not to make this a Part of his Sentence ; for then compulsory. - To leave this for a Week ; and, if in the mean time, he submit not, by offering Satisfaction, then to proceed further.

Sir H. Manwaring: - To commit him to the Tower. To have a Committee, of some Ten, to set down what Satisfaction fitting. - Mentioneth a Satisfaction appointed by the Earl of Essex, Lord Marshall, between Withypoll and Felton.

Sir Edw. Sands: - Clear Sir Ch. M. gave no just Cause, to Mr. Coke, of Offence, - Knoweth him to be a Man no ways offensive. - No Proof of the Provocation alleged by Mr. Coke. Idem non me, et non apparere. - Loveth him, in his Person ; thrice, for his Father. - To the Tower, which our Prison. - For the Punishment, agreeth with Mr. Finch. - Like, within a Week, by Mediation of Friends, a full Satisfaction must be made: If none be made, then this House to set down the Satisfaction.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle agreeth with the Punishment to the Tower. - That the House may, and ought, in all Reason, to set down the Satisfaction. Both are to deposite their Honours to this House, as usually done at the Knight-marshal's Court. Fitter to do this by the House, than by Mediation, or Consent of Parties.

Sir Wm. Strowde agreeth for the Punishment. - Mr. Glanvyle a Judge's Son, as well as Mr. Coke ; and might have taken it as ill. - Thinketh, what ariseth from Mr. Coke's own Motion, will give better Satisfaction to the Parties, than if he be only pressed to it by the House.

Mr. Alford: - Will aggravate nothing. - Concurreth with Mr. Finch. - Let him make his Offer, and Petition, if he can : If none made by him, in due Time, then the House to take further Consideration thereof.

Member committed.

Upon Question, Mr. Coke, for his Contempt to the House, to be sent to the Tower, during the Pleasure of the House; and Sir Ch. Morrison to be enlarged from any Restraint.

Lord Clifford: - To call in Mr. Coke, and give him his Judgment; and then for Sir Ch. Morrison, and put him in his Place.

Mr. Coke kneeling at Bar, Mr. Speaker pronounced his Judgment accordingly.