House of Commons Journal Volume 11: 14 April 1694

Sabbati, 14 die Aprilis;

6° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Recovery of Tythes.

MR. Clarke reported from the Committee, appointed to draw up Reasons, to be offered to the Lords at a Conference, for disagreeing to the Amendments made by the Lords to the Bill, intituled, An Act for the more easy Recovery of small Tythes, That they had drawn up the same accordingly; which they had directed him to report to the House; and which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read; and agreed unto by the House; and are as follow; viz.

The Commons disagree to the Amendments made by the Lords, in the 4th, 6th, and 7th Lines of the Third Press.

1st. Because the whole Intent of the Bill would be defeated thereby.

2. For that the Bill is designed to give those who are intitled to small Tythes, a more easy and effectual Remedy for the Recovery of them; and to avoid the Vexation of long and chargeable Suits for such small Matters: And the Commons conceive it unreasonable, That the Persons to whom small Tythes are, or shall be, due, should be discouraged from seeking their Right, by the Consideration of the Tediousness, and the Expence, of a Suit to recover it; or that the Person, who may have neglected or omitted to pay an Easter Offering of Twopence, a few Eggs, or some such thing, be put to a long and troublesome Defence; wherein, how little soever the thing recovered against him may be, yet he may be condemned in 20, 30, 40l. or greater Costs: And therefore the Bill provides, That where the Title is not in Question, nor the Value of what is demanded exceeds 20 s. there shall be no Suit for such small Tythes, but in the cheap and summary Way that the Bill provides; Whereas, by the Lords Amendments, that Intent of the Bill is frustrated, and the Inconveniencies and Charges by the former Methods, for Recovery of small Tythes, are not prevented.

3dly. For that the Lords, by a subsequent Amendment, have agreed this Bill to be beneficial to the Clergy; and yet have excluded the Laity from taking any Advantage by it: And the Lords have, by these Amendments, left the Minister at Liberty to bring his Suit upon this Bill, or not; but have absolutely subjected the Parishioner to a new Jurisdiction, without freeing him from the Danger of being grieved by the old, dilatory, vexatious, and chargeable, Method.

4. For that the Commons are of Opinion, This Bill makes a beneficial Provision for all Parties concerned; and therefore the old Method of Suit for small Tythes should not be continued: And that there appears to be as much Reason against the Bill itself, to which the Lords have agreed, as there is for these Amendments made by the Lords.

The Commons disagree to the Lords Amendment in Line 30th, Press 5th:

1st, Because it alters the Intent of that Proviso, which was to be a Limitation of Time, within which all Claims for small Tythes should be made, or barred: Whereas the Lords Amendment makes it only a Bar to any Suit founded on this Act; but leaves Liberty of Suit for the same, in other Courts as before.

2dly, For that there is as much reason to limit a Time within which all Suits for small Tythes, due before the passing this Act, shall be commenced, as to limit a Time, within which all Suits shall be prosecuted for small Tythes, that shall became due for the future: And the Lords have agreed to a Clause in the Bill, whereby all Suits for future Dues, are required to be commenced within Three Years, or else they shall be barred.

3dly, For that the Commons think the First of May 1695, a reasonable Time to be given for bringing any Suit for a Matter of so small Value, which is already due; because few People take Receipts, or call Witnesses to testify the Payment of such little Sums; and, after a Year or two, it would be a hard Matter for any Person that has paid his Due to prove the same: And the Proof will, in this Case, lie on the Defendant, who ought not to be left liable thereto for so long a time till it will become very difficult for him to do it.

The Commons cannot agree to the Clause mark'd A:

1. Because they think themselves in Conscience bound to mete the same Measure to all Persons, and to let all the Subjects have equal Benefit of the Laws: And therefore they conceive, as to small Tythes, whether due to a Lay Person, or an Ecclesiastical Person, the Remedy for the Recovery of them ought to be the same; for it is an undoubted Maxim, That where there is the same Right there ought to be the same Remedy.

2. The Design of the Bill being to prevent Injustice in detaining what is due, and to provide against Oppression and Vexation in suing for those Dues which are of small Value; the Reason is the same, why Laymen should have the Benefit of this Bill, as well as Ecclesiastical Persons: But by this Clause an Ecclesiastical Person, who is Owner or Occupier of a Lay Impropriation, as the Lords call it, or Rectory Impropriate, or Portion of small Tythes, shall be included in the Bill, and have the Benefit of it, though a Layman shall not: Now the Commons do not see any Reason to make any such Difference between Ecclesiastical Persons and Laymen: And are therefore of Opinion That where there is the same Reason, there ought to be the same Law.

Conference desired with Lords.

Ordered, That a Conference be desired with the Lords, upon the Subject-matter of the said Amendments.

Clitheroe Election.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, touching the Election for the Borough of Clitheroe, be made upon Tuesday Morning next.

Supply Bill; Duties on Paper, &c.

A Bill for granting to their Majesties several Duties upon Paper and Parchment was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Monday Morning next, at Eleven a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider of the Bill.

Commissioners of Accounts.

An ingrossed Bill for appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine, take, and state, the publick Accounts of the Kingdom, was read the Third time:

An ingrossed Clause was offered, as a Rider, That the Commissioners do, by the next Session, state the Debt due to the Transports, for the War of Ireland:

And the same was thrice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House to be made Part of the Bill.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine, take, and state, the publick Accounts of the Kingdom.

Ordered, That Mr. Boyle do carry the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Robert Legard and Mr. Holford:

Mr. Speaker,

Vexatious Suits.

The Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for preventing frivolous and vexatious Suits, with some Amendments: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House: And also,

Duchy of Cornwall Leasing.

The Lords have agreed to the Bill, intituled, An Act for enabling their Majesties to make Grants, Leases, and Copies of Offices, Lands, and Hereditaments, Parcel of their Duchy of Cornwall, or annexed to the same; and for Confirmation of Leases and Grants already made; with some Amendments: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Tonage Duties, &c. [Bank of England incorporated.]

The House, according to the Order of the Day, took into further Consideration the Report from the Committee of the whole House to whom the Bill for granting to their Majesties certain Duties upon Wines, and upon Beer, Ale, and other Liquors; and also the Bill for granting to their Majesties several Duties upon the Tonage of Ships; . . . .:

And the rest of the Amendments, made by the Committee to the said Bills, were severally read a Second time; and some agreed, and others disagreed, unto by the House, upon the Question severally put thereupon.

A Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, That such foreign Stores as John Taylor Merchant hath contracted for to their Majesties Use before the first of December, which shall be imported, shall not be charged with the Duty of Tonage:

And the same was twice read.

And the Question being put thereupon, That the Clause be made Part of the Bill;

It passed in the Negative.

Another Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, * * * * :

And the same was twice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House to be made Part of the Bill.

Another Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, for appropriating the Monies to be raised by this or any other Act of this Session, except the Money appropriated to pay the Recompences in this, and the Act for granting certain Rates and Duties upon Salt, &c. to the Use of the Navy and Army:

And the same was twice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House to be made Part of the Bill.

Another Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, That in case the 1,200,000l. shall not be paid in time, the Fund, intended as a Security for the same, shall stand a Security to any Person that shall advance any Sum, to have such Annuities, as the Contributors to the 300,000l.:

And the same was twice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House to be made Part of the Bill.

Another Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, That all Ships importing Goods from France, shall pay the like Duty of Tonage as those from Portugal, after the War:

And the same was twice read; and, upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the House to be made Part of the Bill.

Another Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, for settling the Fees for the Officers of the Exchequer; with a Blank for the Sum:

And a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Blank be filled up with "Three Farthings in the Pound;"

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

So it passed in the Negative.

A Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the House do now adjourn;

The House divided.

The Noes go forth.

So it passed in the Negative.

An ingrossed Clause was offered to be added to the Bill, against the Trading of the Corporation:

And the same was once read; and withdrawn, by Leave of the House.

Ordered, That the further Consideration of the said Bill be adjourned till Monday Morning next, Eleven a Clock.

Ordered, That Sir Eliab Harvey have Leave to offer another Clause of like Nature, to be added to the Bill.

And then the House adjourned till Monday Morning, Nine a Clock.