House of Commons Journal Volume 12
6 January 1698

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History of Parliament Trust

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1803

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29, 30, 31, 32, 33

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 12: 6 January 1698', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 12: 1697-1699 (1803), pp. 29-33. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=39522 Date accessed: 29 July 2014.


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Jovis, 6 die Januarii;

Nono Gulielmi Tertii.

Prayers.

Leave of Absence.

ORDERED, That Mr. William Johnson have Leave to go into the Country for a Fortnight, his Lady being very ill.

Maesacker's, &c. Nat.

An ingrossed Bill, from the Lords, intituled, An Act for the Naturalization of Gerrard Maesacker, and others, was read the First Time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second Time.

Duties on Leather.

A Petition of the Skinners, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, of the Town of Manchester, in the County of Lancaster, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Petitioners Trades, at best, was but a bare Subsistence for their Families; and, since a Duty of Three Shillings per Pound has been laid upon Leather, the same is much lessened, and the Petitioners much impoverished: And praying Relief in the Premises, by taking off the said Duty.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Aldermen, Stewards, and Company, of Fellmongers, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, in the City of Chester, is referred: And that they do examine the Matter thereof; and report the same, with their Opinion therein, to the House.

Duties on Leather.

A Petition of the Fellmongers, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, of the Borough of Whitney, in the County of Oxon, and several others near the said Borough in the said County of Oxford, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Petitioners have always been famous for dressing Alum-Leather, and making Gloves; and thereby maintained their Families, and contributed to the Poor; but, since a Duty has been laid upon all Leather, the Petitioners Trade is greatly decreased, and they are in great Want: And praying Relief in the Premises.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Aldermen, Stewards, and Company, of Fellmongers, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, in the City of Chester, is referred: And that they do examine the Matter thereof; and report the same, with their Opinion therein, to the House.

Ditto.

A Petition of the Company of Glovers and WhiteTawers of the Town and County of Haverfordwest was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That since a Duty of Fifteen Pounds per Cent. has been laid upon Leather, near Three Hundred People in the said Town now want Bread, for want of Employment, who before comfortably maintained themselves: And praying, That the Monies intended to be raised by the said Duty may be raised by some other Means.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Aldermen, Stewards, and Company of Fellmongers, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, in the City of Chester, is referred: And that they do examine the Matter thereof; and report the same, with their Opinion therein, to the House.

Ditto.

The Petition of several Tanners inhabiting in the Borough of Shafton in the County of Dorset, presented to the House on Tuesday last, was read; setting forth, That the great Duty upon Leather hath already much decayed the Petitioners Trade, not only because they are forced to give longer Credit than before, but when they go to any Fair or Market, and there agree to sell their Goods at a certain Rate, and enter the Duty at the full Value, yet the Collectors refuse to do the same, and charge it undersold; and that they will take it at that Price, according to the Power of the said Act; yet perhaps do not pay the Money till the End of the Market or Fair; and then they sell it at the same Price the Petitioners had agreed for: Which neither is the only Grievance; but the Collectors refuse to grant another Permit to remove Goods to any other Market or Fair, without great Delay, which occasions Charge, and sometimes the Loss of the intended Market: And praying, That the House will grant some speedy Relief in the Premises.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the Petition of the Aldermen, Stewards, and Company of Fellmongers, Leather-dressers, and Glovers, in the City of Chester, is referred: And that they do examine the Matter thereof; and report the same, with their Opinion therein, to the House.

Transport Debt.

A Petition of Jenkin Donne, and several other Masters of Ships and Vessels belonging to the Town of Swanzey in the County of Glamorgan, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That the Commissioners for Transport-Service entered into Charter-party in 1693, with the Petitioners; and there is due to the Petitioners thereupon above 1,000l. for Transport-Service; which the Petitioners greatly want, and cannot adjust Accounts with their Owners till paid: And praying, That they may be paid what is due to them on such Account, as aforesaid.

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to the Committee, to whom the States, Estimates, and Accounts, presented to the House, are referred.

Irish Arrears.

A Petition of Peter Chabet, in behalf of himself, and several others Troopers of the Earl of Gallawaye's Regiment of Horse, was presented to the House, and read; setting forth, That they petitioned the House last Session, That they might be paid their Irish Arrears: Which Petition was referred to a Committee; and, upon Examination of the Matter, it was agreed to refer it to Two indifferent Persons; who have shewed great Partiality, by keeping the Troopers out, and suffering the Agent and Officers to be present; and keeping their Resolutions to themselves till the Parliament was prorogued; by excluding Relations, Executors, and Assigns, from their Right; and by not allowing what was each Man's Due: And praying Relief of the House in the Premises.

And a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Consideration of the said Petition be referred to a Committee;

It passed in the Negative.

Report on Estimates & Accounts.

The House proceeded, according to the Order of the Day, to take into Consideration the Report made Yesterday from the Committee, to whom the States, Estimates, and Accounts, presented to the House, were referred:

And the said Repert was read; and is as followeth; viz.

Report on Estimates and Accounts.

       £.        £.
The Committee, in the First Place, proceeded upon the Estimate of the Deficiencies of the last Year's Aid; And it doth appear, That the Aid of 3 s. in the Pound, for the Year 97, is made a Security for Principal-Money, amount . . . to 1,500,000
That, by a Computation made, the Interest of the same, being Part at 6, and Part at 8 per Cent. will, from the time of borrowing, until the time of Repayment, amount to 120,000
So that the Principal and Interest, to be made good out of the Aid of 3s. in the Pound, amounts to 1,620,000
That, by Computation, the Land Tax for the Year 97, will be near the same, in proportion, with the Aid of 4s. in the Pound, for the Year 1696; which produced the Sum of 1,706,869l. 10 s. 1 d. So that it is computed ¾ths of that Sum to be the Produce of the 3 s. in the Pound, for the Year 97: But deducting 8 d. per Ounce, for so much thereof as was paid in hammered Money, before the 1st of June 97, and 2 d. per Ounce, for what was paid in hammered Money, after that Day: Which Deductions were computed at 80,000l.; but the Committee thought, that 67,000l. was sufficient for that Allowance: And then the net Produce of the 5 s. in the Pound, will be about 1,213,000
So that, by this Computation, There is a Deficiency, in the Aid of 3s. in the Pound, amounting to the Sum of 407,000
The next was the Capitation-Tax; which was made a Security to discharge Bills of Credit, amounting, in Principal-Money, to 1,500,000
That the Interest, at the Rate of 5 d. per Day, is to attend the said Bills, when they are not in the Exchequer; or in the Hands of publick Receivers, or Collectors; Which Rate, in the Whole, from the time of making out these Bills, till the time of cancelling the same, is computed at 100,000
So that the Principal and Interest, appointed by Act of Parliament to be made good out of the Capitation-Tax, will amount to 1,600,000
The said Capitation-Tax will, by Computation delivered in to the House, make about 700,000l. out of which deduct 40,000l. for the Payments in hammered Money; and then the net Produce, towards discharging the said Bills of Credit, is estimated at 660,000
By which Computation, there will be a Deficiency in the said Capitation-Tax, amounting to 940,000
The next was the Aid of 1s. in the Pound; which was given for 500,000
It appeared, That the said Aid of 1 s. in the Pound, together with New Subsidies of Tonage and Poundage, were made a Security to discharge Bills of Credit, amounting to 1,200,000l. Principal Money, with Interest, at the Rate of 5 d. per. Day, for every 100l.; and the Interest of so many of the said Bills, as are to be cancelled, on the said Aid of 1s. in the Pound, singly, is estimated at 33,000
By which Computation, the Principal and Interest, to be made good out of the Aid of 1 s. in the Pound, will amount to 533,000
The net Produce of the 1s. in the Pound, which is estimated, in proportion, with the 3s. in the Pound, amounts to 404,000
So that there will be a Deficiency, to be provided for, towards discharging so many of the said Bills of Credit, as are to be cancelled, on the 1s. Aid, with the Interest thereof, amounting to 129,000
By all which Computations, the Total of all the Principal and Interest Monies, appointed by Parliament to be paid out of the Funds given the last Sessions, except the Tonage and Poundage, and Malt-Duty, which are not estimated, amounts to the Sum of 3,753,000
And the Sum Total of all the Monies, which will arise out of the Aid of 3s. in the Pound, the Capitation, and the 1 s. in the Pound, towards discharging the Principal and Interest of the said Loans, is estimated at 2,277,000
So that the whole Deficiency, upon the Aid of 3s. in the Pound, the Capitation, and the 1s. in the Pound, by this Estimation, amounts to 1,476,000

As to the Aid of 3 s. in the Pound, the Committee examined into the Reasonableness of the Computation aforesaid; viz. The 120,000l. Interest upon the 1,500,000l. It did appear, That a great Part of the Interest begun above a Year ago, and will not be paid in a Year's time.

That the Money comes in very slow; and the Agents for Taxes have sent Letters to the Commissioners in the Country to hasten them: Who returned Answer, That there was but very little milled Money. It did appear, That there had not been above 600,000l. brought in, both in new and hammered Money; and that the Receivers have committed very great Abuses; particularly, in keeping new Money in their Hands, and buying up Exchequer-Bills with the same.

As to the Interest of 100,000l. upon ExchequerNotes, That the Abuses committed by the Collectors and Receivers, in taking new Money and Guineas, at 22s. and buying up Exchequer-Bills with the same; and other Abuses by them committed; has occasioned the Interest to be so great.

That there is 100,048l. of the Bills not yet made out: That there is about 570,000l. of the Bills, which are cancelled.

That 2 or 300,000l. of them have been paid to Seamen: That there is about 2,000,000l. now out, that carry the Interest of 5 d. a Day. So that it will be a considerable time, before they are all cancelled; which must necessarily occasion the Interest to be so great.

The Committee examined the Chamberlain of London, in relation to what Money had come in, upon the 3 s. Aid, the 1s. Aid, and the Capitation: Who informed them, That there was come in, upon the 3 s. Aid, 120,000l.; 110,000l. whereof was paid him in old Money, and the rest in Exchequer Bills; and not 200l. in milled Money.

He further informed the Committee, That the 3s. and 1s. Aid, distinct from the Capitation, within the City of London, will fall short, at least, 30,000l. of the 4s. Aid in 1696: That he has received, by the CapitationTax, about 130,000l.; but most in Exchequer Bills, and old Money: That he hath paid into the Exchequer, in hammered Money, about 130,000l.; which produced, when coined, about 110,000l.

The Committee examined Mr. Ryley; and asked him, What the 3s. and 1s. Aid would produce? Who informed them, That he could not give them an exact Account; but did believe, It would hold near the same, in proportion to the 4s. Aid, granted in the Year 96.

He also informed the Committee, That the Duplicates are not yet returned from the Countries; and that the Agents of the Taxes have done all they can, and have pressed the Commissioners for the Duplicates; who have sent Answers to them, That the Reason why the Duplicates are not returned, is, Because of the frequent Removals of Persons and Servants: So that, till the Last Quarter be paid, they cannot return the same.

Memorandum. The new Subsidy, and the 1 s. in the Pound, is charged with the Payment of 1,200,000l. That the 1s. in the Pound will produce, by Computation, 404,000l. But the Subsidy of Tonage and Poundage, which is granted from the 1st of May 97. unto the 1st of February 99, is to make good the said 1,200,000l.

The Committee proceeded upon the Consideration of the Abstract of the Arrear due to the Land-Forces, Guards, and Garisons: And it appeared according to the best Information the Committee could get,

£. s. d. £. s. d.
That there is due, to clear the Arrears of Pay, from the 1st of April 1692, to the last of September 1697, according to the Establishment 1,200,054 16 3
That there is due, to clear the Arrear of Subsistence to the Troops in England, according to the Regulation thereof, between the 1st of January 1696, and the 1st of August following 203,415 7
Most of which is due to Quarters.
That there is due, to clear the Arrear of Subsistence due to the Troop of Scotch Guards in Scotland, and the Regiment and Companies in the West-Indies, from the 1st of January 1696, to the 20th November 97, inclusive; to which time the Army in England have been subsisted, except for the Seven Months, between the 1st of January 1696, and the first of August following 21,348 9
Whereof 4,936l. 19s. is set down, as due to the Troop of Scots Guards.
That there is due, to clear the Arrear of Subsistence due to the Troops in Flanders, to the 4th of October last, according to the best Estimate that can be made of the same, 450,816l. 17s. 8d.; and to clear Contingencies to the said time, 28,293l. 2s. 4d. making together, as per Abstract, delivered in 479,000 703,763 8
That there is due to the General Officers, with their Aids de Camp, and the Majors of Brigade, about 50,000
That there will be due, for Arrears of Pay to the Land-Officers, Guards, and Garrisons, which will be due to them from the said last Day of September last, to the 31st of December, inclusive, about 75,000
£.2,028,818 4
Memorandum, It appeared, by an Account delivered in to the Commissioners, by the Lord Ranelagh, there was further due, to clear the Arrear of Subsistence due to the Troops in Flanders, from the 4th Day of October 1697, exclusive, to the last of December, inclusive 195,990 9
Towards clearing of which, there has been borrowed, and remitted, and not yet paid here, 100,000
And there has likewise been furnished, by Mr. Hugueton, and others, who are repaid out of the Loans made to the Exchequer in general, 58,000 £.158,000
Balance remaining £.37,990 9
£. s. d.
That, upon Consideration of an Account, signed by the Lord Coningsby, and Charles Fox Esquire, it appeared, That there is due to the several Regiments therein mentioned, to the time they were placed on the English Establishment 99,951 18 41/8
And that it also further appeared, by an Account signed by Jacob Vander, That there is due to the Regiments therein mentioned, to be cleared of their Irish Arrears, till the last of March 1692 27,260 17 1

Ordered, That the said Report be referred to the Consideration of the Committee of the whole House who are to consider of the Supply to be granted to his Majesty.

Supply.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Saturday Morning next, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the Supply to be granted to his Majesty.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Darrell have Leave to go into the Country, upon extraordinary Occasions.

Preventing Correspondence with late King James.

The House, according to the Order of the Day, proceeded to take into Consideration the Amendments, made by the Lords, to the Bill, intituled, An Act against corresponding with the late King James, and his Adherents:

And the same were read; and are as follow; viz.

1st Skin, 32 L. for "6th," read "14th."

2 Skin, 4 Line, for "6th," read "14th."

4 Skin, 22 L. after. "Treason," leave out to "and," in the 29th L.; and insert Clause A, That if any Person who hath taken any such Grant, or Pardon, as aforesaid, shall deliver up the same, before the 13th of February, he shall not be punishable for the same.

The First and Second Amendments were read a Second time; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

The Third Amendment, 4 Skin, 22 L. after "Treason," leave out to "and," in the 29th Line, being read a Second time;

And the Question being put, That the House do agree with the Lords in the said Amendment;

It passed in the Negative.

Ordered, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons, to be offered to the Lords at a Conference, for disagreeing to the said Amendment.

And it is referred to Sir William Williams, Sir Richard Onslow, Colonel Granville, Mr. Conyers, Sir John Bolles, Mr. Manley, Mr. Price, Lord Norris, Mr. Pocklington, Mr. Sloane, Mr. Gwynn, Mr. Blake, Mr. Attorney-General, Mr. Berty, Mr. Solicitor-General, Mr. Harcourt, Sir Edw. Seymour, Mr. Tredenham, Lord Ranelagh, Mr. Foley, Mr. Brotherton, Mr. Boyle, Mr. Hammond, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Norris: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Four a Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Counter's, &c. Imprisonment.

An ingrossed Bill for continuing the Imprisonment of * * Counter, John Bernardi, Robert Cassells, Robert Meldrum, James Chambers, and Robert Blackborne, committed to Newgate, for the late horrid Conspiracy to assassinate his Majesty, was read the Third time.

An Amendment was proposed to be made to the Bill, by leaving out "and such other Persons who shall hereafter render themselves, or shall be apprehended; and against whom there shall be Evidence upon Oath, of their being concerned in the said barbarous and bloody Conspiracy to assassinate the Person of his Sacred Majesty."

And the Question being put, That the said Words stand Part of the Bill;

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Another Amendment being proposed to be made to the Bill, by leaving out "and to the End of the next Session of Parliament;"

And the Question being put, That the said Words stand Part of the Bill;

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

The Question being put, That the Bill do pass;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

Tellers for the Yeas, Colonel Wharton,
Mr. Norris:
191.
Tellers for the Noes, Mr. Brotherton,
Mr. Arnold:
2.

So it was resolved in the Affirmative:

And that the Title be, An Act for continuing the Imprisonment of * * Counter, and others, for the late horrid Conspiracy to assassinate the Person of his Sacred Majesty.

Ordered, That Mr. Clark do carry the Bill to the Lords, and desire their Concurrence thereunto.

Timber in New-Forest.

Resolved, That this House will, upon Tuesday Morning next, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Bill for Increase and Preservation of Timber in the New-Forest, in the County of Southampton.

Ordered, That such Persons as were ordered to attend the said Committee this Day, to attend again upon Tuesday next.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.