House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 23 May 1614

Lunae, 23o Maii

Murray's Nat.

L. 1. AN Act for Naturalizing of Eliz. Murray, Wife to Jo. Murray Esquire, One of his Majesty's Bed-chamber.

Oath.

L. 1. An Act against the Oath ex officio.

Windham.

L. 1. - Windham.

Monmowth Hospital.

L. 3. - Hospital. - Monmowth . - Passed, upon the Question.

Jernegan's Decree.

L. 3. An Act for Confirmation - Jernegan. - Passed, upon the Question,

Pelham's Estate.

L. 3. - Pelham. -

Sir H. Poole; - That Twelve Committees, all Sussex Men, but he ; and all agreed, but he. That this concerneth all their Freeholds. That here the Right of many shall be taken away, without Judgment of Trial, and that from Infants, by Act of Parliament. That the Estates of the Infants grounded upon a Fine and Indentures.

Mr. Fuller, contra: - For the Debts are to be paid. - That the Stating of these Lands thus for Life, with Remainder for Life, &c. a new Invention, and worthy to be taken away.

Mr. Ashley, accordant. - Precedents: Yewe's Bill, last Day; Evelyn's Bill, last Parliament.

Sir D. Digges, against the Bill. - Precedent of Platt's Bill, last Term rejected.

Mr. Browne, for the Bill. - That Platt's Case was, where Lands were estated by the Grandfather, and, after his Death, the Father would have undone this by an Act.

Mr. Amnerst, for the Bill.

Sir Jo. Savyle, - against the Bill. - That a Bill, in this Case, preferred the last Parliament, and rejected.

Mr. Glanvyle, against the Bill.

Mr. Weare, accordant,

The House divided :

Tellers for the Noe: Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Edw. Hobby.

Tellers for the Yea: Sir Christofer Hatton, Sir Olyver Cromwell.

With the Noe, 201.

With the Yea, 133. -

Dashed.

Gold and Silver.

L. 3. An Act against the vain wasting and consuming of Gold and Silver: - Passed.

Bills sent to Lords.

Six Bills sent up to the Lords by Sir Tho. Lake.

Nat. Bill.

L. 2. An Act for the Naturalizing of ....

Sir Ro. Phillipps moveth that the Committee may consider of some Course, that neither these, nor any other of that Nation, that shall be naturalized hereafter, may be of this House.

Sir Wm. Cavendish: - Not to have a particular Tax upon these Gentlemen.

Sir Wm. Maynard, accordant.

Reading a written Speech.

Sir Jo. Savyle: - That Mr. Speaker should have found Fault with a Gentleman (meaning Sir Wm. Cavendish) which read out of his Book what he should have spoken.

Sir Jer. Horsey: - That divers of the House have usually helped their Memories with their Notes.

Mr. Secretary: - That this Matter of great Weight. - Desireth therefore a further Consideration of it, at least. Mr. Fuller: - That this a Matter of so great Consequence, as not fit to leave it to the Committee; but to determine it by a Question here in general; so as it shall not be in any particular, but generally to all.

Nat. Bill.

Mr. Knollys desireth, this may not now be put in; because that will open a Door to all to be of this House, that have been naturalized before.

Mr. Mallett moveth for a Clause -

Mr. Alford moveth -

Committed to all the Privy Council, Sir Christopher Hatton, Sir Olyver Cromwell, Mr. Mallett, Mr. Knollys, Sir Ro. Drury, Sir H. Nevill, Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir Jo. Killigrew, Sir Tho. Hobby, my Lord Clifford, Sir J. Strangwayes, Sir Ro. Sidney, Sir Robert Phillippes, Sir Ed. Sands, Sir Ro. Owen, Sir D. Digges, Sir Ed. Gyles, Mr. Fuller, Mr. Alford, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Sir Francis Lea, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Mr. Beecher, Sir Tho. Germyn, Sir Jo. Sammes, Sir H. Withrington, Sir Ro. Mawnsell, Mr. Drake, Sir Wm. Maynard, Sir Wm. Cavendish, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Geor. Manners, Sir H. Rich, Mr. Duncombe: - Thursday next, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Baronets.

Sir Edw. Sands reporteth the Matter for Baronets; which offereth to the Committee, and by them thought fit to be retained : Which here he offereth to the House.

Mr. Fuller: - To have this give Place to greater Matters.

Sir H. Poole: - That this Matter of Honour and Reputation, as much as the -

Mr. Secretary: - That neither for the Honour, nor Liberty of this House, now to read it. - 1. That this calleth in Question the King's Honour. -

That the Liberty of this House cannot be maintained, except moderately used. That this only a Point of Honour; which freely in the King's Power, where he will dispose it; so as, that being his Right, this to question the Discretion of his Majesty, which should have conferred it upon unworthy Persons. -

That this, touched not the Nobility, Yeomanry, Gentry, nor any but Knights before this Creation. That the Ground of it for Ireland: The Necessity of it great: That the Money employed accordingly. - No Cause to question this, more than the Knights of Bath, Garter, &c. This according to the Custom in other Nations.

Mr. Alford . - To have it determined first by Question, whether it shall be read, or not read.

Sir Edw. Hobby: - That usual to read those Things delivered in by a Committee, else a Disgrace to the Committee. -

His thoughts loyal, his Actions just. - That he hath already. -

Woe to that Time, where an humble Petition of the grieved Gentry of England shall be called an entering upon the King's Prerogative. -

That each Man cannot well digest his Wrong. - He a Woman's Son : When his Tongue hath spoken, his Heart eased. - That this concerneth him more than any in the House: - Will shew the Reasons hereafter. - Desireth the reading it. - That there will be propounded sufficient Matter, both for the. King's Honour, and Profit. - Mindeth not Subsidies.

The Motives, openly read.

Sir Tho. Hobby .- - That petitioning his Majesty in this, no Breach of the Prerogative. - Moveth, a select Committee, to consider of this Petition.

Sir Tho Lake : That this not now seasonable. Many Things of great Weight now in Hand, which distaste...

- Not to mingle too many Things of Distaste. That this trencheth high, to impeach the King's Prerogative and Discretion.

Sir D. Digges . - The Earl of Wilshyre took a great Farm of the King : At the Prayer of the Commons took it back, and thanked the Commons. -

That prejudicial to the King, to bind his Successors not to advance Virtue. That this Power hath ever kept this a flourishing Kingdom.

Sir A. Cope . - Not to stir Matters which shall hinder Matters of greater Weight. That this openeth a Gap to Gentlemen, to question Knights in the like Manner.

Mr. Glanvyle moveth, whether the King, by Law, can create Estates of Inheritance. All Estates in Fee-simple, till West. 2. Sithence, no Office, nor any thing not annexed to Land, can be entailed. An Annuity cannot: A Rent-charge may. This not therefore warranted by Law, except made a Baronet of some Place, and with Lands.

Upon the Question, this committed to Sir Edw. Sands, Sir Edw. Hobby, Sir H. Nevill, Mr Glanvyle, Sir Roger Owen, Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir Jo. Scott, Sir Christopher Hatton, Sir Jo. Hollys, Sir H. Poole, Sir Francis Lea, Sir Rich. Bulkeky, Sir D. Digges, Sir Mervyn Awdeley, Sir Francis Vane, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Jo. Sammes, Mr. Ashley, Sir Edw. Gyles, Mr. Crew, Mr. Savadge, Mr. Nevill, Sir Jo. Strangwayes, Sir Wm. Brereton, Sir Wm. Tate, Sir H. Rich, Sir Alexander St. John, Sir Ro. Rich, Sir H. Wotton, Sir Geo. Manners, Sir Tho. Hobby, Mr. Hackwyll, Mr. Hoskyns, my Lord Clifford, Sir Francis Goodwyn, Sir James Scydamore, Mr. Whitlocke, Sir Wm. Candish, Sir Tho. Wharton, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Sir Tho. Jermyn, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Geor. Moore, Sir Wm. Cooke, Sir Wm. Walter, Sir Tho. Lowe, Sir Tho. Vavasor, Sir H. Withrington, Mr. Duncombe: - Friday in the Afternoon, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Sir A. Cope: - Why Baronets should not be Committees.

Sir Ed. Hobby: - That no Man speaking against the Body of a Bill should be a Committee.

Sir Jerome Horsey: - That pardoneth Sir A. Cope, for calling this a Libel, because he speaketh for his Penny.

Sir Edw. Sands sheweth the Reason why the Name torn off.

Statutes.

Sir Edw. Sands moveth, the Committee for Statutes may meet orderly on Mondays. - That Mr. Finch, &c. may. -

Sir Jo. Savyle, Sir H. Poole, and any other of the House, which will come thither, to be of the Committee, and have Voice.

Stolyon's Bill.

Stolyon's Bill adjourned until Friday-come-sevennight, in the Court of Wards.

Elections,&c.

Mr. Hackwill moveth the Continuance of the Matter concerning Elections, &c.

This to meet on Wednesday next, in the Star-chamber.

Stockbridge &c. Petitions.

Stockbridge and Northumberland Petitions referred to the Committee of Privileges.

Apparel.

Mr. Brooke: - That the Committee for Apparel is sine die.

Sir H. Nevill, Sir Nich. Smyth, and whosoever shall attend, to have a Voice: - Wednesday next, in the Court of Wards,

Hull.

The Hull Business on Thursday next.

Stockbridge, &c. Petitions

The Two Petitions for Stockbridge read, and that for Northumberland.

Sheriff of Northumberland.

Sir H. Withrington moveth, the Sheriff of Northumberland may be heard in the House.

Sir Tho. Hobby. - That he hath out-ridden the Serjeant's Man.

Mr. Serjeant: - That the Sheriff would not so much as bid his Man drink.

Ordered, The Sheriff of Northumberland shall come to the Bar to Mr. Serjeant's Custody, as a Prisoner, Tomorrow, at Nine of the Clock,

Reading of Bills.

Ordered, That the House shall every Day sit at Seven of the Clock in the Morning, and to begin to read Bills secondly at Eight of the Clock.