House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 30 April 1621

Lunae, 30o Aprilis

Leave of Absence.

Mr. Lewknor, in respect of his Want of Health, hath Liberty, for some Time, to depart into the Country.

Egerton's Estate.

L. 1a. An Act to reverse Two several Decrees made in Chancery, and to restore to Edw. Egerton, Esquire, the Possession of certain Manors and Lands, taken away from him by force of the said Decrees.

Judges in Chancery.

L. 1a. An Act to establish Two Judges Assistants in the Court of Chancery, and to lessen the Charge of Suits in that Court.

Bankrupts.

Bankrupts: - Wednesday, Inner Temple Hall.

Chancery.

Bill of regulating the Chancery, - Wednesday, Lincolne's Inn.

Jurors.

Bill of Jurors, - Wednesday, Lincolne's Inn Hall.

Imprisonment.

L. 1a. An Act for the better Securing of the Subjects from wrongful Imprisonment, and Deprivation of Trades and Occupations, contrary to the 20th Chapter of Magna Charta. - Delivered in by Sir Wm. Fleetewood.

Poor.

L. 1a. An Act for the Avoiding of the great Charge, daily increasing upon the Inhabitants in Cities and Towns Corporate, for the Relief of poor People. - Upon Question rejected.

Sir Edw. Sands: - To send away a great Number of our poor People into Virginia.

Secret Offices, &c.

L. 2a. An Act against secret Offices, and Inquisition to be taken on his Majesty's Behalf, to the Prejudice of &c. his Subjects. -

Sir Geor. Moore: - That this a good Bill, yet short, because no Notice to be given to the Terre-tenant. - Only 40l. forfeited, where may prejudice 500l. to make it void.

Sir Edw. Coke: - By the Common Law a Travers; now none, without Licence. - Knoweth not, by what Law, - By the Law, is to have it to farm upon Sureties. -

Knoweth not the Mystery of this Denial of a Travers. - No such Provision in the Statute of .... whereby the Court of Wards established. - Not to make the Office void, for Want of Notice; but to leave Notice at the Party's House, in Writing.

Mr. Fetherston: - That this may also extend to the Palatyne of Durham, and Chester, where Jura regalia. -

Committed to Master of the Wards, Sir Edw. Coke, Sir M. Fleetewood, Mr. Fetherston, Mr. Noy, Mr. Hackwill, Mr. Attorney Duchy, Sir Tho. Denton, Sir H. Poole, Sir Ge. Moore, Sir Tho. Ryddall, Mr. Chancellor Duchy, Sir Ro. Bevell, Mr. Glanvyle, Sir H. Anderson, Sir H. Hastings, Mr. Brooke, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir D. Digges, Sir Ben. Rudyard, Sir T. Bowes, Sir Geor. Manners, Sir Edw. Peyton, Mr. Wentworth : - Thursday next. Court of Wards.

Transporting Wool. &c.

L. 2a. An Act to prohibit the Transportation of Wool, Yarn made of Wool, and Fuller's Earth, into foreign Parts. -

Sir Chr. Hildyard: - To provide against carrying into Scotland, whence it may be transported.

Mr. Neale:- - To have no Sheep transported hence into Ireland.

Sir Tho. Riddall: - To have an Exception of the Wool-fells of Northumberland, Cumberland, and Westmorland; which are coarse.

Sir Edw. Sands: This Bill a good Body; One ill Member: The Penalty, Felony; which unproportionable to the Fault, and unlawful to be made. - Not to put the highest Penalty to an Offence, which is not malum per se. Mr. Guy, accordant. - That this extendeth to every Shipper, Wool-grower. - No Witness to be admitted for him.

Sir Ro. Payne: - That divers Patents for Transportation of Wool into Garnesey and Jernesey. - To provide for these.

Sir Edw. Gyles: - To make it Felony. - As bad as malum in se. - Not to have the Master of the Ship included ; because it may be so sent by the Merchant, that he shall know it.

Sir Edw. Coke . - Many Acts of Parliament have made that Felony, which not malum in se. Transportation of Sheep made Felony: Transportation of Ordnance. - No Help for this, without this Penalty. - Stealing of a Sheep Felony: Carrying away Wool a far greater Offence. - Two Witnesses, and those sufficient, to accuse him; and he to have Witnesses to clear him. - A Precedent for this, 31 Eliz.

Sir H. Anderson, accordant, to make it Felony; ut Sir Tho. Riddall, for their Country Wool-fells ; which hath been allowed them by many Acts of Parliament. - That the Scottishmen else will buy them, and carry them away.

Mr. Towerson: - To provide for Scotland: - And that, if no Penalty but Felony, none will prosecute.

Mr. Whitson: - To have an Exception -

- Sir Edw. Coke, Sir Edw. Sands, Sir H. Anderson, Sir Tho. Riddall, Sir Edw. Mountagew, Sir Rich. Tichborne, Sir Peter Fretchwell, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Wm. Strowde, Burgesses London and Yorke: - All, that will come, to have Voices : - Wednesday next, in this House ; the Bill for Buying and Selling of Wools, being adjourned.

Dover Parishes.

St. Peters in Dover: To-morrow, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Transporting Ordnance.

Master of the Wards moveth, for a Bill to be prepared against the Transportation of Ordnance; and the King to be moved from both Houses, that he will pass his royal

Word, that neither upon any Suit of any Ambassador, or other, he will give way to any Transportation.

Mr. Bateman: - That a Bill drawn ; but thought fit by the Committee, that the King be moved, to know his Pleasure.

Master of the Wards : - This Petition to the King a good Ground to him to deny all Suits.

Mr. Secretary : - Not to move the King in this: - Not to tie the King's Hands so far. - Hath already tied himself, not to grant any, without Consent of his whole Council. - For may have Occasion to send, for Defence of his Children, or Allies.

Mr. Alford: - To have the old Bills, and the new-drawn, brought in To-morrow Morning; and then to be read. - Resolved. - And Mr. Solicitor to bring in the new Bill.

Sir W. Ehrle : - To move the Lords; and both they and we to petition the King, as the Master of the Wards hath moved. - But this stayed till the Bills read.

Warden of the Fleete.

The Warden of the Fleete to be presently sent for : And all the Lawyers of the House to come presently.

Floyde's Libels.

The Particulars against the Warden of the Fleete read ; and the Accusation against Floyde, by Dr. Willett, concerning base Words against the Prince Palatyne.

Sir Edw. Sands: - The Paper of Two Natures; Scorn, and Title. For the first; to examine, and punish.

Sir Ro. Phillippes . - Sorry, this Business came here; yet would now be more sorry, we should not punish it, and do that noble Lady right, for the base Words : And not meddle with the Title. - So Sir Th. Jermyn. - To meddle only with the Words of Disgrace.

Chanteries.

Mr. Brooke reporteth the Bill of 1 Ed. VI. of Chanteries with the Amendment; which twice read; - Engrossetur.

Fines, &c.

Sir H. Poole reporteth the Bill against acknowleging Fines, &c. in other Mens Names; with the Amendments. -

Mr. Recorder: - Liketh the Substance, but not the Remedy, by making void; which very dangerous, in respect of the Averment afterwards. - In Newman's Case, where he brought another Woman, instead of his Wife, though in Star-chamber this proved, yet would not sentence to avoid the Fine. - A Re-commitment.

Re-committed: - In the Committee Chamber, presently ; and Mr. Recorder added.

Message from the King- Irish Affairs:

Master of the Wards: - A tickle Matter, to bring a Message between the King and his People; yet liketh it the better, because bringeth no ill Use. - That the King took Notice of the Complaints made as last Week. That the King took it the more to Heart, because made by a Servant of his own, and One, that was a Privy Counsellor of Ireland. - That the King will not question our Privilege of meddling with this Business ; yet is to give Account to none but God; That the King appointed Three to survey some Patents.

A Particular, in Writing, delivered in by the Master of the Wards; containing Five Grievances exhibited to the King from Ireland; and the King's Letter, in Answer thereof.

- That the King hath of late heard of divers Briberies in that Country, by some eminent Persons : - Heard of this by the Lord Admiral: Is now about the Reforming it. - That the King saith, Ireland never in so great Prosperity, as now. That that One of his Master pieces, and to be an Honour to him for ever hereafter. - Will neither press upon the Power of this House, nor question it; but refer it to the Judgment of this House, whether they will think fit to prevent his Reformation intended, or to partake with him in Thanks or Honour for it. - That he will have his Ears open to the Gent, that reported this.

Sir Jo. Jephson: - That most of this, now read, known to him before. - Proposed to have related it, but his Want of Memory (having lost a great Part of his Skull) hindered him. - Sorry, the King should be offended. - Intended nothing but Loyalty to him. - That never intended further, but to inform the King, upon Examination ; and desireth, the King will give us Leave here to examine it.

Sir J. Perrott: - That thinketh, some Misdemeanors in that Country, known to others, not to the King : Therefore, if the King pleased, thought fit -

Mr. Serjeant Ashley : - That Sir J. Jephson, presently after his Speech, he told him, he intended to have remembered the King's Honour, in the great Care he had taken in this Business.

Sir Wm. Strowde: - Not to prevent the King's Thanks, how participate of his Honour; but to have the King moved, to give us Leave to examine it; and then to represent it to his Majesty : - Yet not to do it, except the King will be pleased to give way.

Irish Affairs.

Mr. Alford: - A dangerous Precedent, to surcease, upon a Message.

Mr. Treasurer : - Seeing the King hath already begun this Business, fit to leave it all to the King.

Sir H. Poole: - That fit to proceed no further. - To return the King Thanks for his gracious Message, by Master of the Wards.

Sir Geor. Moore, accordant.

Sir Edw. Sands: - That the Business, moved here, concerned not the Five Grievances, nor the King. - The Grievances of Ireland: The Danger of Ireland: - The State of Religion abroad; which dispersed into Six Parts of Christendom : Half of it almost gotten away; viz. the Alpes, Bohemia, with the Members, and the Palatinate. - That the State of Ireland, for Religion, in the uttermost Extremity of Ruin. In many Places, scarce One Protestant, for 100 there were before. -

That the greatest Oppression there, that in any civil Kingdom : - Not from the King. - Only to inform the King, and leave it to him. - To do nothing without the King's Leave. - To let him know, we desire no Sharing with him in Honour, or Thanks; but, if he please to give us Leave, that we will inform him, with all the Duty Subjects can do.

Sir D. Digges: - No Privilege here broken, by surceasing upon the King's Motion. - The King's Care great; but great Oppression by divers of the State there : This not known to the King. - To let the King know, we will surcease, or proceed, as the King pleaseth.

Sir Francis Seymor: - To petition the King, we may examine, and inform the King of the Misdemeanours in the State of Ireland.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Desirous every way to satisfy the King ; yet the State of Ireland so dangerous, as fit to be looked into: - 1. To thank the King for his gracious Favour, in acquainting us with the Particulars delivered by Master of the Wards. 2ly, To petition his Majesty, we may proceed on to examine, and then to inform his Majesty of the State of Ireland; and, if he will not then please to give way to it, then to surcease.

Sir Edw. Gyles: - To send Thanks to the King for his gracious Message; and to let him know, we will surcease any further Examination of this Matter, if he shall not please to give any way in it.

Master of the Wards : - That the King's Desire is, to leave the Examination of this Matter unto him. Mr. Mallory concordat cum Sir Ed. Gyles.

Sir Edw. Cecill: - That the Thing desired is but to inform the King, and so to make his Work the more glorious.

Mr. Beecher : - To give no Sacrifice of Thanks, but Obedience.

Mr. Brooke: - Perceiveth now the King's Desire, we should stay any further Examination - Sithence the King hath undertaken this himself, to leave it to him. To suspend our Proceedings for the present.

Mr. Solicitor: - The Business weighty. The Wisdom of a great Council to propound Things seasonably. - Not to obtrude our Council to the King against his Will. - To let the King know of the Dangers now propounded; and, if he please to use our Counsels further, to be ready; else, to stay.

Mr. Chancellor of the Duchy: - Never knew any House carry themselves with more Respect. - To leave it to the King. - Doubteth not, but, e'er many Months, the King will give us a good Account even of this Business.

Mr. Mallett: - Great Difference between Informations from this House, and from private Men. - To petition the King, for his Leave to proceed further.

Sir H. Withrington: - To send the King Thanks. To inform the King, what our Intention and Purpose ; and to desire his Highness to give Consent to our further Examination ; and that then, if he will not consent, to sit down.

Sir Geor. Chaworth: - To obey now, and not procure an absolute Command.

Sir Nath. Rich: - To name a select Committee, to consider of what Message to the King.

Sir H. Fane: - A Message of Thanks. - To surcease, for the present, all further Proceedings in this Business.

Sir Francis Goodwynn : - Inclineth to petition to proceed.

Message to the King.

Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer moveth, a Message, by the Master of the Wards, to let him know our Proceedings, and Desire here to proceed ; yet to surcease, if the King shall, upon a second Message, shew his Desire of staying any further Proceeding.

Agreed, Thanks to be given to the King for his gracious Message ; and to let him know, that the Intention of the House, to examine, and then inform his Majesty, but not to share in his Honour, or Thanks; but, if he please to assume it wholly to himself, and ease us of the Pains, they shall willingly submit.

This Message to be sent by the Master of the Wards: Which delivered in Writing (penned by Sir Edw. Sands) unto the Master of the Wards.

Sir Francis Fane : - That Sir Edw. Sands may return into the Committee Chamber, and set down, in Writing, what he propounded last for the Message.

Floyde examined.

Floyde, called to the Bar, and kneeling, and crossing himself, asked by Mr. Speaker, if he know Penington, saith, Yea. Saith, he never had any Speech with Penington, Willett, or Cole, touching the Palsgrave, or his Lady, or the King or Queen of Bohemia. Denieth, that he ever had any. Saith, that Two were present, when Penington saith he spake those Words: and yet neither of them will affirm any such Thing. Offered to take the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy.

That he never received the Communion, sithence his coming to the Fleete; which is One Year and half.

The Warden of the Fleete to attend here again Tomorrow Morning, and to bring Floyde, Cole, and Penington.

Sir E. Francis.

Sir Edw. Francis: - That Keeling informed him of this, offering to be sworn to this. - That his Wife traduced to be a Recusant. - She no Seducer: - Hath no Servant any Recusant. - His only Daughter none.

Mr. Secretary remembereth a Speech of Sir Edw. Francis, that he cared not for the Spanyard.

Whereupon Sir Ed. Francis explained himself, that he intended it only of the Spaniard's Religion; and intended that also no more of him, than of all other Princes, that were of that Religion.