House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 30 April 1604

Lunae, 30o Aprilis, 1604

Rodney's Estate.

B. FOR the quiet Establishing and Settling of the Lands and Possessions, late of Sir Geo. Rodney, &c. reported from the Committee by Mr. Hoskins, with Amendments; the Amendments Twice read; and the Bill, upon Question, ordered to be ingrossed.

Jermye's Decree.

The Hearing of the Council in Sir Tho. Jermye's Case, by former Order appointed this Day, upon special Cause, adjourned till Friday.

D. of Somerset's Estate.

Hearing of Counsel concerning the Possessions of the Duke of Somersett, deferred till Tuesday Sevennight.

Sail-cloth.

L. 1. B. For the Making of Sail-cloths, called Poll-davyes.

Losse's Estate.

L. 1. B. For the Sale of the Lands of Sir Hugh Losse, Knight, &c.

Tanners,&c.,

L. 1. B. For Explanation and Enlargement of some Part of a Statute, made in the Fifth Year of the Reign of the late Queen Elizabeth, intituled, An Act touching Tanners, Curriers, Shoemakers, and other Artificers, occupying Cutting of Leather.

London Merchants.

L. 2. B. For a Court of Merchants in the City of London, as in Scotland and France: - Upon this Second Reading, much disputed; and, upon the Question for Commitment, rejected.

Bruce's, &c. Nat.

Mr. D. Swale and D. Hone bring from the Lords a Bill, intituled, An Act for the Naturalizing of Sir Edw. Bruce, Knight, Lord of Kinlosse, his Wife and Children; and for the Confirmation of Letters Patents made unto him.

Petition to the King against Purveyors, &c.

The Committees appointed to present the Petition, touching the Abuses of Purveyors, &c. had Access and Audience, on Saturday [b] last. The Petition was read by Mr. Hare, in this Form:

To the King's most excellent Majesty :

IN all Humbleness sheweth, and complaineth, unto Your Highness, Your faithful Subjects, the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the Commons House of Parliament, for and on the Behalf of all the Commons of England: That, whereas many good and wholsome Statute Laws, to the Number of Six-and-thirty, or more, have been by many Your noble Progenitors, from time to time made and provided, as well for Prohibiting of all Purveyances and Takings, except only for the King, Queen, and Prince; and for repressing the Malice of the King's Purveyors and Takers, in oppressing the People; and for taking their Oath to deal justly in their Office ; and for appointing the Form of their Commissions, which should express the Manner and Knowledge of their Takings, together with the Pains and Penalties mentioned in those Laws, upon such Purveyors; and how, and after what Manner, Appraisements, Prices, and Payments should be made for Things taken; and for Prohibiting of double Appraisements; as also to secure the Subjects, that they should not be put into Contempt, or punished by any of the King's Officers, for observing the Tenor of those Laws; and likewise for Punishing and Resisting of such Purveyors and Officers, as should disobey, or not perform, the Orders and Directions appointed by the said several Laws: So it is (most gracious Sovereign) that Your said faithful Subjects, in all Parts of this Realm, are, contrary to those Laws, and against all Law and Right, and with Slander to Your Majesty, mightily oppressed, charged, and disquieted, by sundry Grievances daily put in use, as well by Your Highness' Purveyors, Takers, and their Ministers, in doing contrary to the Laws, in most Points ; as also by Your Highness' Officers of the Green-cloth, in sending forth Commissions directly contrary to the Appointment of the foresaid Laws, and in maintaining the unlawful and unreasonable Doings of the said Purveyors and Takers : Which said Officers also do, against Law and Right, and that in Your Majesty's Name, deny unto Your Subjects the Freedom and Benefit of the said former Laws, unto which they are freely born; and do cheek, charge, and imprison them, at their Will and Pleasure, for claiming and using the Direction and Liberties of the Laws. For Remedy whereof, Your said faithful Subjects, according to ancient Usage and Precedent, have exhibited a Bill in the Commons House of Parliament; not to take away any Right from Your Majesty (as the said Officers do wrongfully pretend) but only to confirm, and put in Execution, the Laws already made; which is, and will be, great Honour and Safety to Your Highness, and great Comfort and Relief to Your People, which cry and groan under the Burthen of these Abuses, still growing greater in every Coast of your Kingdom.

But, for as much as Your said faithful Subjects do fear, and doubt, that Your Highness hath been informed by some of Your said Officers, that we do seek, by our said Bill in Parliament, to take away some of Your Majesty's Right (which is far from us, and which Right we are bound, by Duty and Oath, strongly to maintain) our Doubt therein growing from some Part of Your Majesty's late most gracious Speech unto us, as also from the Words of One of Your Officers of the Green-cloth, that hath of late plainly told us, that we shall not, or must not, have any Law pass herein; we have therefore thought meet, besides our said Bill in Parliament, to exhibit this our humble Petition to Your Highness, shewing the Premises, and therewith also, drawn into Articles hereunto annexed, some of the said particular Grievances; most humbly beseeching Your excellent Majesty to take them, with this our Petition, into Your princely and prudent Consideration, and to discern our heavy Grievances, the Justness of our Complaint and the Necessity of our Bill exhibited in Parliament; which Bill, upon assured Confidence of Your Majesty's Goodness and Justice, we hope, will take a due Effect, notwithstanding any wrong Information or Suggestion formerly made to Your Majesty; and, according to our bounden Duty, we shall daily pray unto Almighty God for the long Preservation of Your Highness, and Your Posterity, in much Joy and Happiness.

Divers particular and unlawful Grievances by the Cart-takers.

The said Cart-takers, upon every Remove, do for their private Gain, charge excessive Number of Carts; that where Two hundred, or thereabouts, would suffice for all Your Majesty's, the Queen's, and Prince's Carriages (for which only Carts are to be taken) there are taken ordinarily Eight or Nine hundred, and many times a thousand; many of which he dischargeth for Money, and many of the Carts he bringeth Thirty Mile, and above, from the Place of their Dwelling, before they take their Loading, some of them being Ox-teams; and forceth them oftentimes to wait a Week together, to their great Loss, and many of their Undoings; and have but Two-pence a Mile from the Place of Loading, and allowed nothing for their Journey forward nor backward, contrary to the Law, which prohibiteth all Taking of Carts, except by Gree of the Party; Besides, the said Cart-takers do take great Sums of Money in gross, and sometimes yearly Stipends, to ease certain Hundreds, Persons, and special Places, and yet

notwithstanding chargeth the whole Sum of the Carts upon the Residue.

Also they exact Ten Shillings a Cart of all Defaulters, which have been warned to appear, notwithstanding the said Cart-takers, have more Number of Carts, for that present Remove, than they need, or do use.

They do also take Carriages for other than the King, Queen, and Prince, against the Law : And do also take quarterly Stipends of all Carts and Wains near abouts or coming to, London; which amounteth to a great Revenue.

The Cart-taker sendeth to some Hundreds to borrow Money, promising them Favour for it; but they refusing to lend, he presently sendeth, the next Day, Warrant to them, to send in many Carts ; and after, upon Suit, dischargeth for Money divers of them : Also they do charge many Carts far off, and yet nevertheless in their Warrant do signify, that if such far Dwellers will give Hire for Carts, to be taken nearer, then, upon Delivery of their Money to the Constable, they shall be discharged for their Travels so far.

This Year, 1603, there hath been charged by Precept, with One Fortnight, in some County, of Carriages Six hundred and Six, where One hundred and Five served ; and the Purveyors took Money for the Discharge of the rest; and yet your Majesty came not within that Shire; And in some One hundred, where are but Thirty Teams, they have been all compelled to serve, from the Twelfth of December last, to the Twelfth of March following, the Number of Eight hundred Ninety-one Carriages.

If the King remove but for a Dinner, the Purveyor chargeth near as many Carts, as at a full Remove; and the over Number must either compound with the Purveyof for Money, to save his coming, or else travel to the Court, and go Home, as many Times he doth, empty, no Carriage being there for him. There are Ten several Commissions to take Carriage for these Ten Particulars, and every Taker Three or Four Under-takers; these do take all Cars, Wains, and Carts, whatsoever, belonging or coming into London, or the Suburbs, to serve for Carriage of these Things, except they will compound, and pay either present Money, or quarterly Exhibition. And such Carts as serve to One Commission, immediately upon their Return, are taken again to serve another of the Commissions; and so infinite, till they do compound : And if they refuse to serve, the Green-cloth severely punisheth them. Also they take up Teams that are wearied, and unable to serve, only to get Money more readily for their Discharge.

Also, besides the Carriages for Removes of your Majesty's Household, the Country is exceedingly charged vith Carriages for Wood, Coal, Hay, Straw, Timber, and divers others; putting many of your People, in less than a Year since your Majesty's Reign, to more Charge than Five or Six Subsidies.

The like Abuses and Extortions touching Cart-taking, as is before mentioned, are also committed by Purveyors of Carts for the Council of the Marches of Wales; who also do often enforce'Carriage by Land, when it may more easily and fitly be carried by Water.

The Purveyors for Poultry, Conies, and Fowl, having large Allowance for Carriage, to the Undoing of divers of Your poor Subjects; by reason that many of their Horses die within Two or Three Days after they are returned to the Owners, the said Purveyors detaining of the Horses sometimes Four or Five Days.

Post-horses are now of late excessively taken fer private Uses, where they ought not to be taken but for the publick Use and respect; whereby Your Subjects have their Horses often taken out of their Carts, Ploughs, and upon the Highways, to the utter Undoing of many of Your poor Subjects, and the Hindering of Tillage.

Divers Grievances by Purveyors of Victual, Wood, Coal, and such like, and by the Form of their Commission.

Petition to the King against Purveyors, &c.

Whereas by divers Laws it is provided, that the Purveyors Commission shall contain the Form, plain Manner of their Takings; mentioned in the Statute Laws; attd that he should make ready Payment for all things taken by him, and that the People shall not obey any

Commission otherwise made ; now these Matters are omitted out of their Commissions, and such Form of Commissions made, as the Officers of the Green-cloth do devise, without respect of Law, or Quiet of the People, and That also, in the most part, clean contrary to the Laws; whereby the People are much grieved, and abused : Besides, by the Law. the Purveyors should be few in Number, and have no Deputy, and to be Men of Value, to answer the People; and should likewise be sworn : But all this is neglected, and Purveyances, are made according to the Will of the Purveyor, and at what Price he listeth; whereby much Grievance groweth to the Subject, contrary to the good Provision of so many Laws; and hereby there is no Mean to know what he taketh ; neither is there any Appraisement made of Things taken, to the Value, as the Price goeth in the next Market, as it ought to be; but contrariwise, in some Commission there is a Price certain expressed in the Commission, not above the Fourth Part of the true Value; and if any Appraisement of Things taken, happen to be by the Constable and Four others in the Country, as the Law appointeth, the Purveyors, misliking that Price, do make, at the Court-gate, a new Appraisement, by Strangers of his own Choice, and will pay but according to such second Appraisement; But, for the most Part, the Purveyors do neither make such Appraisement, or pay ready Money, as the Laws appoint; and if the Owner therefore resist, and the Constable do his Office, to assist such Resistance, as the Law appointeth, they are vexed by Pursivants, and imprisoned by the Officers of the Household in extreme Manner.

Whereas the Purveyors, by the Statute Laws, are appointed to take in convenient Places, where Plenty is, and in easy manner, without Compulsion or Threatening; now they take in Highways, and in Night-times, where there is not, nor cannot be Appraisement; and in some Places charge your Majesty's People with Provisions they have not, and enforce them to pay Money, at dear Rates to their Purses, for such Provisions; and then nevertheless, they take these Provisions in full, in other Places, at low Prices, such as they please.

The Purveyor ought by Law, to shew his Commission to the Party, of whom he taketh; but contrariwise he sendeth a Warrant, in Writing, to the Constable, for Sending in of such Nature and Quantity of particular Provisions, as pleaseth him, without shewing Commission, and without entering the Things taken upon the Blanks, which should be annexed to the Commission, or paying for this in Hand, as the Law requireth: And such, for the most part, is now the Course of all the Purveyances; whereby much Wrong is done to Your Majesty, and Your poor People also.

Also there is a new Charge, within these Three or Four Years last past, for the Provision ot Sturks for the Houshold, raised in all Counties of Wales, never used before; and by Colour thereof, Your Majesty's Officers force them to a yearly Composition; whereas, in Truth, within most Counties they have no Sturks: And by such compulsory Means almost all late Compositions are grown.

Also Purveyors do divers times take great Quantity of Timber, squared in the Wood, and chargeth the Country to carry it, by Carts, to the Water-side ; and after do sell all that Timber away for Money, and do commit many such tike Abuses.

Also the Purveyor doth sometimes make the Customer his Deputy, who will not accept any Entry of Custom of Wares brought into the Realm, until great Sums of Money be paid unto him for Purveyance upon these Wares, which was never paid or demanded before; and the Deputy Purveyor being indicted for the same, the Followers of the Indictment are sent for up by the Green-cloth, and much threatened by them, and sometimes committed to Prison, and awarded by the Officers of the Green-cloth, to pay to the Pursivant great Sums of Money for Fees; and do bind them to appear from Day

to Day, notwithstanding they shew forth good Cause of Discharge.

Whereas no Purveyor may take Woods but by the good Will of the Owner; Your Majesty's Purveyors do suddenly fell great Quantity of Woods, in many Places, without Notice or Privity of the Owner, no Price agreed on, and make the Country provide Fellers, Ten or Twelve Miles Compass off the Place, at their own Charge; and they make the Owner oftentimes, at his own Charge, to put it into Coal, and sometimes to carry it; by which the Price of his Wood, which Your Majesty alloweth him, is clean spent and consumed. And further, although they take great Quantities more than need, of Wood and Coal, in the Woods and Wharfs, yet they take also great Store from the Bargemen upon the Thames, compelling them to lose Five Shillings in every Two Load; and when they should have their Money, then also to abate 12d. and sometimes 2s. in the Pound; Also, when they have taken from the Owner of Woods, at the Stubbe, they do also take from the same Owners much of the Residue, when he bringeth it to the Water's Side, or is upon the Water: Also they compel poor Bargemen to carry Wood ; wherein they lose the third Part of the Value of the Labour, that have no Mean to maintain their poor Wife and Children, but only their Labour: They also take Woods in remote Places from the Waterside, so much as the Charges of the Carriage, which the Country payeth, is twice or thrice as much in Value as the Wood in the Place where it is taken.

Whereas Justices of Peace, by Statute Laws, have Power to hear and determine the aforesaid Offences of Purveyors, and others, whereof many are Felonies ; and those Justices, upon Complaint, are bound, by Oath and Duty, to proceed against them; now, for doing their Office therein, the Justices, together with divers Constables, doing their Duties, and others prosecuting against Purveyors, are often convented, forced to attend, threatened with Imprisonment, and disgraced by the Officers of Your Majesty's Household, to the Encouragement of Purveyors in their Offences, and Discouragement of the Justices from doing their Duties.

Divers particular Grievances of Purveyors, and Officers of the Stable.

The Officers of the Stable being served of divers Loads of Hay, from divers Places charged therewith, they do commonly, when it is brought, refuse the same; which groweth upon such Grounds, as insufficient; and do compel, by this Means, most Men assessed, to a Composition of Money for it, at 10d. the Truss, or 3s. a Load, besides 10s. retaining in their Hands, which is their pretended Price; most of the Country Inhabitants never receiving any Money, either for their Hay, Corn, or Straw, so taken, neither for any Carriage thereof: Besides, they will have Sixty Pounds weight in every Truss, which ordinary ought to be but Fifty-six; and Forty Trusses to a Load, where it should Thirty-six.

This Purveyor also commandeth from the High Constable more Loads of Straw for the King's Service, than is used in that Service, and more than was formerly paid, and that also in very unseasonable Times of the Year, when Men have it not, nor can in divers Places have it for Money. They will also have Corn heaped Measure, which the Statute expressly forbiddeth: They do also, of late time, require from the Inhabitants of the Forest, where the King's Deer doth feed, and spoil much of it, as great a Proportion of Hay, Corn, and Straw, as in other free Places of the Shire, albeit in former Time divers of those Places were freed from such Payments.

They send Warrants for excessive Quantity of Hay, Straw, and Oats, and command the Carriage; which Carriage alone, in divers Places, costs the Subject double as much they receive for the whole Stuff and Carriage.

Infinite Particulars may be manifested, upon Enquiries by Commissions in the Country; but these few Heads we set down, upon the Knowledge of such as are present to justify the same, if so it please Your Highness: And we do most humbly beseech Your most excellent Majesty to vouchsafe Your gracious Consideration thereof, and of Your princely Love and Justice to your People, who are ready to pour out their Bloods for your Service, to give such Relief, as Your all-discerning Wisdom and Judgment shall seem meet: For which we, and our Posterity, shall be further bound, as infinitely we are already, daily to pray to God the Almighty, for Your Majesty, and Your Royal Progeny's most blessed Reign, in all Felicity, perpetually to continue over us.

Petition to the King against Purveyors, &c.

Sir Francis Bacon maketh Report of the Access and Audience with his Majesty of the Committees, of the Delivery of the Petition, of his own Speech of Introduction and Explanation, touching the Abuses of Purveyors, &c.

The Audience, he said, was in the Lobby at Whytehall.

In it there was his Proposition :

The King's Answer.

With some Introductory Speech.

Kings affected to be called Caesar Germanicus, Britannicus, &c. where they had been victorious : - Semper Augustus, greater: - It participateth of the Divine

Majesty. - Nothing more worthy of him, than Pater Patriae, and that much better for human Honour. - His Majesty might take many of the first Names by Blood; they by Bloodshed.

Quae miramur, habemus; quae laudemus, expectamus:

- Not so with us.

His Heart like the Sands of the Sea: Nothing so great, but he could comprehend ; nothing so little, but he could touch and discern.

His Commendation was, that in his Time, the Church was decided ; his Nobility increased; the Burden of the People eased.

Then he shortly set forth,

Their Respect in Proceeding:

The Substance of their Desire :

Their Motives and Reasons. -

It was no Part of their Thoughts to abridge his Majesty's Prerogative:

It was only their Desire to have the old Laws confirmed.

There be Leaves, Roots, and Nettles.

St. Austin.

The Purveyors the Leaves; the Green-cloth the Roots, which support those Leaves; their Abuses the Nettles.

The Abuses themselves :

Abuses, which support them.

Their Abuses :

1. They take that they ought not:

2. Not in One Quantity:

3. In an unlawful and undue Manner.

Not Takers, but Taxers. They Tax ad redimendam exemptionem: - Present, and annual Sums, ne noceant. - The only Multipliers: - Scarce a third Part comes to his Majesty's Use.

The Price ought, by the Law, to be according to the Gree of the Party; now set down by the Purveyor. -

The Place: - In the meanest Ale-houses, &c.

The Times: - The Twilight.

The Manner: - The Commissions may.

Abuses, which support:

Commissions against the Tenor and Warrant of Law.

Motives:

The Matter itself spake.

1. Since Magna Charta, in H. III's Time, a Part of every King's Glory to make a Law against Purveyors. - In E. III's Time, Ten Laws.

2. He would not hold himself guiltless, &c.

3. Concluded with Pyndarus: Optima res aqua, because common: - Pessima res Purveyors, because to the Commons.

His Majesty's Answer.

A Declaration of his Mind:

Of his Care already.

Of his Pleasure.

The Name of Father of the People greater than Emperor: Spoken of those, that, in Fact, would give Comfort.

Opposite to Rehoboam's Answer. -

He would not answer so, but he would ease the Burden.

- Hoped, his Fortune would be otherwise; to unite, where Reboham hath rent and torn.

He had Cause to be sorry, and glad :

Sorry, that the general Expectation of Relief and Solace should be frustrate by these Men ;

Glad, that there was Occasion for him so well to understand them.

He would not neglect the Punishment of that which is past: - Provision for that which is to come ; - Satisfaction in both.

His Care hath been expressed : -

In Summer last a definite and Provisions. -

A certain Number of Carts.

He appealed to his Council, who, being present, testified it. -

His Desire and Pleasure, that they would have some Conference with his Privy Council.

The great Officers of the Houshold gave some Interruption by way of

Disproof:

Justifying. -

When Complaint was made, they did Justice. -

Never Complaint in the Stable since my Lord of Worcester's Time.

The like said by the Lord Admiral, the great Officer of the Navy. -

That they had these things only by Relation.

Answered: They would be verified.

They did according to ancient Usage.

Answ. Usage, or Prescription, contrary to a positive Statute, void.

Not possible the King should otherwise be served.

Answ. Quia mirum, - Magnum mysterium, that the King could not be served, if his Laws observed.

Said by a great Lord,

That their Offences were,

Felony;

Misdemeanor. -

To be prosecuted in the Country, in Course of Justice :

- At the Assizes, or Sessions.

This was all done, or said, at that Time.

Union with Scotland.

Sir Francis Bacon doth also make Report of the Conference had with the Lords on Saturday, touching the Union.

The Instructions read in the House, containing all the Objections, he had in his Hand; and said, the Matter was prosecuted upon those Grounds.

But the Proceeding there divided itself into an Introduction, Matter, and Conclusion.

1. The Lord Chancellor's Admonition: -

The Partition Wall taken away, no Man to repair it.

The Lord Cecyll produced a Project from the King. -

That it was not his Meaning to take the Name upon him, if the State could not be secured. -

Maluit non dimicare, quam non vincere.

Great Magnanimity and Policy to have the Name;

Great Moderation and Justice to leave it.

At length, from Consultation, the Lords fell into a Commendation of their Loyalty, their Liberty, their Gravity, their Carriage, &c.

The Matter of the Name to be left.

The Matter of naming the Commissioners to be proceeded in notwithstanding.

They shall hear from the Lords before any further Proceeding.

Purveyance.

Sir Roger Aston acquainted the House, that my Lord of Worcester had taken the Examination of a Purveyor, upon Complaint of foul Misdemeanors ; that thereupon the King had delivered him over to my Lord Chief Justice, and commanded he should be hanged, if he were found guilty.

The last Committee for Purveyors to meet this Afternoon.

Committees.

Other Committees adjourned.

Religion.

Mr. Vice Chamberlain sent in Message to the Lords, to let their Lordships know their Desire of Conference touching Matters of Religion, according to his Majesty's Pleasure formerly signified.

Vernon's Writ of Error.

The Counsel in the Bill concerning Sir Rob. Vernon, according to former Order, came to the Bar.

With the Bill, for Sir Rob. Mr. Stephens, Mr. Hugh Davenport.

For Sir Wm. Herbert against the Bill, Serjeant Harris, junior, Serjeant Hutton.

After Two had spoken, pro et contra, the Argument adjourned till To-morrow Morning, to be heard again.

Conference.

Mr. Attorney General, D. Swale, and D. Hone, deliver in Answer from the Lords, That they are willing to give way to a Conference touching Matters of Religion, in due Time; but think it fit, that a Conference touching the Union precede. For the Name, they will only intimate the Opinions of the Judges; but for the Naming of Commissioners, desire, that this Afternoon they may confer; and, if it may be,, conclude. To meet at Two a Clock, in the usual Place.

This contradicted thus:

First to hear the Judges Opinion, before we confer.

We have not debated sufficiently, till then not to confer. But Resolved at last, to attend, according to the Motion; and to hear from the Lords, the Matter of the Conference, and what Course shall be taken.

The Messengers called in, and answered accordingly.