Die Mercurii, 27 Oct. 1641.
Bailing a Prisoner.
ORDERED, That Tho. Bough, now a Prisoner
in the Serjeant's Custody, by an Order of the One-and-twentieth of this Instant, shall be bailed forthwith.
Wool, &c. Trade.
The Order for resolving the House into a Committee,
made the Two-and-twentieth of this Instant, to debate
the Particulars of the Trade of Wool and Currans, was
this Day read.
And accordingly, after some Debate of the Particular
of Currans, in the House, it was resolved into a Committee: And
Mr. Speaker left the Chair: And
Mr. Hide was called to the Chair.
Mr. Speaker reassumed the Chair.
Mr. Hide reports from the Committee appointed to
consider of the Two Particulars, concerning the Trade of
Wool and Currans, that the Committee thought fit, that
the Importation of Currans should be inhibited; and
have appointed a Sub-committee to that Purpose, to
draw a Bill: And they likewise thought fit, that the
Committee appointed for the Examination of the Petitions and Complaints against the Merchant Adventurers
should be revived.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Mr. Glyn, Mr.
Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Whitlocke, Sir Jo. Harrison, Mr. Palmer, Mr. Rolles, Mr. Vassall, Captain Rainesbroughe, and
Mr. Spurstoe, shall draw a Bill to inhibit the Importation
of Currans into this Kingdom: And to present the same
unto the House.
Wool Trade, &c.
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to consider
the several Patents granted to Merchant Adventurers,
shall be revived, to sit on Friday at Eight of Clock, in the
inner Star-chamber: And they are likewise to consider
of the Condition of Wools, either growing, or imported;
or any thing else that may be inconvenient or prejudicial
to the Advancement of the Prices of Wools.
Ordered, That Mr. Lisle shall report the Bill of Wools
and Wool-fells on Monday Morning next.
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to prepare
Reasons for the Bishops to have no Votes, &c. do presently withdraw, to perfect those Reasons: And Mr.
Wheeler is added to that Committee.
Committee to meet.
Ordered, That the Committee for Repeal of a Branch
of a Statute of 3° Jac. do meet To-morrow at Eight of
Clock, in the Treasury-chamber.
Ordered, That no Committee whatsoever shall be revived to sit, without a new Order from the House: And
that no Parties or Witnesses shall attend without new
Mr. Palmer, Mr. Whitlock, are to draw up an Order,
according to the Sense of the Order above; and to present it to the House.
Business to be considered.
Ordered, That the Impeachment of Justice Bartlett
shall be read To-morrow Morning; and the House enter
into Consideration in what manner .. proceed in that
Business: And the State of the Money to be taken into
Consideration on Friday Morning.
Parliamentary Protections, &c.
Mr. Reynolds reports the Business concerning Protections, Privileges, and privileged Places, &c.:
"That the City of London did heretofore present a
Petition, in the Name of the whole City, complaining of
Protections and Privileges claimed by Members of both
Houses, and by the King's and Queen's Servants; and,
having no Redress of their Petitions, they called a Common-council; and, upon a long Debate among themselves, they did agree unanimously that this Grievance
was greater and more prejudicial to the City, and the
whole Kingdom, than that of Salt, Soap, Leather, and
Ship-money: Thereupon they did agree to address themselves, by way of a Second Petition to this House; and
That Petition was referred to a Committee, to regulate
Protections; this was 6° Julii last: And during the
sitting of that Committee, they attended there Two or
Three Times a Week, and presented a Book in Folio of
the Members of this House that have granted Protections; and did present the Names of those of the King's,
Queen's, and Prince's Servants, that are protected; upon
all which they grounded their Complaint: Which Complaint was there presented in Writing, and it was the
Opinion of the Committee, that it should be read in the
House, at the Time of the Report; being Reasons tendered by the Committee appointed by the Common
Council of the City of London, against Protections, Privileges, and privileged Places, &c. Upon the Reasons
mentioned in that Paper, and upon other Considerations; and after long Debate, and being a tender Point
to trench upon the Privilege of Parliament, they proceeded unto these Two Votes, which they commanded
me to report."
"1. That all the Members of this House should be
pleased, during the Pleasure of this House, to wave all
Protections for their menial Servants, or others."
"2. That, during the Pleasure of this House, all the
Lands, Estates, and Goods of every Member of this
House, should be liable for the Payment of just Debts."
The Reasons tendered by the City against Protections,
Privileges, and privileged Places for Debtors, were read.
Ordered, That the Committee for Protections shall
draw up a Bill, concerning the Privilege of Parliament
in Point of Protections, according to the Debate of the
House this Day in that Point; and present it to the
Mr. Lisle, Mr. Whitlock, Mr. Palmer, Mr. Hide, Mr.
Glyn, are desired especially attend that Service this Afternoon, at Four of Clock, in the inner Court of Wards.
Bishops Votes in Parliament.
Mr. Pimme reports the Heads of the Conference to
be desired with the Lords, concerning the Suspending of
the Bishops in general, from giving Votes in the Bill,
intituled, An Act for disenabling all Persons, in Holy
Orders, to exercise any Temporal Jurisdiction or Authority; and from suspending the Thirteen Bishops from
giving any Votes in Parliament.
The Heads, as he reported them, were put to the
Question; and assented unto.
Mr. Pimme and Mr. Solicitor are appointed to manage
Sir H. Vane is appointed to go up to the Lords with
To desire a Conference, by a Committee of Both
Houses, so soon as may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, concerning the Bishops.
Mr. Pym reports the Heads for a Conference to be had
with the Lords, concerning the Excluding of the Thirteen Bishops, formerly accused by this House, concerning the new Canons, from their Votes in Parliament;
and for excluding all the other Bishops from their Votes,
in the Bill to take away Bishops Votes in Parliament.
1. That they stand charged with a Breach of Trust, of
the highest Trust, against the Prerogative of the King,
against the Privilege of Parliament, against the Propriety
and Liberty of the Subject, and the Peace of the Kingdom; which are the Jewels deposited under the Trust
and Safeguard of Parliaments. And that all these have
been broken by them, is voted by the Lords, in their
Votes concerning the Canons; wherein they have concurred with this House. That these Persons have been
Parties to the Breach of this Trust, will appear by the
Journal of the Convocation, which is now in the Country, and may be sent for: and the Entry of the Book is,
that these Thirteen Bishops were Parties, and did confirm and subscribe these Canons: That therefore it is
hoped by the Commons, that those, who have assumed
unto themselves a Legislative Power, whereby they have,
as much as in them lay, rooted out the Foundation of
Parliaments, that they should have no Interest in the
Legislative Power at all for the future: Which is the
First Reason that they should be suspended from their
Votes in Parliament.
2. It is very fit they should be innocent Men, and
faithful Men, that should have so great a Trust; much
less, Delinquents of so high a Nature; the Heinousness
of whose Offence tends to the Subverting of the Laws of
the Realm: And therefore not to continue their Votes
in Parliament: And to present to the Lords a Copy of
the Votes of both Houses concerning the Canons.
In the next Place, to present unto the Lords, Re/?/
for the Suspending of the rest of the Bishops Votes, in
the Bill to take away their Votes in Parliament.
1. Because they have no such inherent Vote, Right,
nor Liberty of being there, as the Lords Temporal, and
Peers of the Realm have; for they are not Representative
of any body else, not of the Clergy; for then they were
twice represented, by Them in the Lords House, and by
Those in the Convocation House. The Writ is to elect
Two Clerks, ad Consentiendum, &c.: Besides, none are
there Representative of others, but those that have their
Suffrages from others: and therefore the Clerks in the
Convocation do represent the Clergy.
Next, they have not the inherent Rights of Peerage, as
the Lords have; because, in some Things, they cannot
do that there which the Lords may do. In Matter of
Blood they have not Liberty to be there; which could not
be taken, by any Canon, if their Rights were inherent.
Next, if they were Representative of the Clergy, as a
Third Estate and Degree, which is thus, no Acts of Parliament could be good if they did wholly disassent; and
it appears they have disassented, as in the Act for the
Book of Common Prayer, in Queen Elizabeth's Time;
and yet the Act is good; which could not be, if they
were a Third Estate.
Next, that the King may hold his Parliament without
calling the Bishops at all; which hath been adjudged by
all the Judges of England, 7° H. VIII. occasioned by
the Convocation citing of one Dr. Standish for Words:
And all the Judges of England did then declare, the King
may hold his Parliament without calling them at all.
25° E. I. In respect the Prelacy would not agree with
the rest of the Kingdom, in granting a reasonable and necessary Aid and Supply, they were excluded their Votes.
35° E. I. In the Parliament at Carlile, for it will be
brought to this, that when themselves were concerned,
they were excluded their Votes, for, before that Parliament, an Act passed concerning several Oppressions done
by the Abbots and Bishops, upon the interior Clergy of
the Kingdom, by Purveyance and Prices upon Wheat,
&c. who collected Six or Seven Acts more, all to this
Purpose, concerning the Carriage of the Prelates to the
inferior Clergy. This Act was long in Debate; but,
25° E. I. at Carlisle, it is thus; "that the King Habito
tractat, &c. with the Earls, the Barons, and others the
Nobles,&c. have agreed to this Act of Parliament:"
Now the Bishops did not consent unto this; for, if they
had, they should have been named before the Earls and
Barons; for the Degree of Nobility, in all ancient Records, is Prelates, Earls and Barons, &c.
The next Record was in E. III. Time, something in
Treaty concerning the Cardinal and the Clergy; and
those Acts are expressed to be, with the Consent of the
Earls and Barons, and others of the Laity; and that
doth exclude them (Memorandum, Here to desire the
Three Records themselves to be read; which Three
Records do all concern the Clergy, partly for Provision
of Livings, and other Expences to Rome, and beyond
the Seas): And to all these Three Acts the Assent is in
these Words, "by the Earls, Barons, and the other Lay-people." So none did assent but those that were Lay-people; and, in the several Orders and Degrees of
naming them, they are omitted, being always in the First
Order: For, if they had voted, then the Rule should
have been entered, that it was agreed by the Prelates,
Earls, and Barons.
3° R. II. cap... There being Provision the Pope should
not make Presentation, and that other men should not
present alone to their own Livings; then, the Petition
of the Commons was assented unto by the King, and
other Lords Temporal. Then afterwards 7° R. II.
(a printed Case there) the same Question comes again,
concerning the Clergy; and it is recited, it was assented
unto by the King and Lay Lords.
Bailing a Prisoner.
Ordered, That Timothy Hutton, Curate of the Parish
of St. Giles without Cripplegate, now a Prisoner in the
Serjeant's Custody, by Order of this House of the 26th
of this Instant, shall be forthwith bailed, upon Security
given to attend the Pleasure of the House, at such Times
as they shall require.
Answer from Lords.
Sir H. Vane brings Answer, that the Lords have
taken the Message into Consideration; and will give a
present Meeting, as is desired.