House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 28 April 1607 (2nd scribe)

Martis, 28o Die Aprilis, 1607

Leather-sellers, &c.

Mr. Pembridge moveth for Counsel in the Bill of Leather-sellers. - Friday.

The Sadlers to be heard against them.

Bringing Water to London.

1. Reading: - B. For Explanation of the Statute, for Bringing of a fresh Stream of Water to the North Parts of the City of London.

Holdich's Relief.

2. Reading: - B. For the Relief of John Holdich, Gentleman, disinherited by the extraordinary Amendment of a Fine : Committed to Sir John Heigham, Mr. Solicitor, Mr. Fuller, Sir H. Poole, Sir Fr. Bacon, Mr. Martin, the Knights and Burgesses of Suffolk and Norfolk, Sir Rob. Wingfield, Mr. Recorder of London, Mr. Hyde, Sir Rob. Hitcham, Mr. Brook: - Thursday sevennight. Temple.

Union with Scotland.

Sir Edwyn Sandys: - That his Majesty hath now raised with us up again, and shewed us a Pattern. As his Majesty hath cleared his Desire, so we to make some Remonstrance. -

The Matter, a perfect Union. -

The Manner at this Session to enter into a Preparation. -

Into Two : 1. Wherein it doth consist; what it is:

2. Whether behooful to our Country. -

1. Set down perfectly by his Majesty. Unus Rex, unus grex, una lex. One Head, One Body, One Soul. -

Salomon, " A divine Sentence shall be in the Mouth of the King." -

Consider, what Parts we have attained : What Part we are to attain. -

Unus Rex, done. - The Royal Family. -

Object. Union of One K. but only in his Majesty's Person, and Issue. It may be severed, King H. VIII. Case. H. II. of France, born, bred, and buried.

Answ. His Majesty would take order, that the Line of Scotland should always follow the Line of England.

2. Unus grex. One People cannot, but by incorporating Parliaments. -

When they join and concur in One Action. - One in Making of Laws. -

A Body representative, because -

The King hath the Government by Law, in his own Person. -

Sovereignty, in Making of Law, in the King and People. -

Just, and natural, that every Man be bound by his own Act.

3. Una lex. - Necessarily follow, where One King, and Parliament, One Law. - Difficulty: -

1. What One Law is :

2. How far this Unity necessary. -

One Law, where the same Individual hath Power to perform One Act over all. -

1. The same Law in kind:

2. The same individual Law. -

James the I. carried most of our Laws into Scotland : Not One Law, but a like Law. -

So long as Parliaments divided it cannot be One Law. -

Law works not, but by Means. Judges must be One; as Lord Chancellor, &c. One Seal : The great Seal. -

If a Scottish Offender fly into Scotland, a Default in Justice, if there be not Means to punish him.

2. How far necessary Unity. - Only to Causes criminal.

Particular Laws of divers Nations, as of particular Shires. -

Not intended, the Scotts should leave all their Laws, and Privileges; for that were a Division, and no Perfection. -

To reduce our Laws to more Order, Perspicuity, and Equity: A worthy Work of these Times. -

Our Laws have not their Reputation. -

Punishments, Plagues, &c. over a People lawless, and disordered. -

God hath made One King; let us make One Parliament : One Parliament will make One Law. -

How behooful. -

Desired of all: His Majesty, the Lords, in their Commendation of the Union ; which cannot have his Sense in the unperfect Union. -

Protests, he spoke by Commandment, and according to his Heart. -

To take a Review of the Reasons. -

The Duty of an Artificer, not to make, but to use. -

Behooful for Strength. The Scottish Kingdom enlarged, this enlarged. -

The Greatest are not always the happiest. -

But now, when neighbour Kingdoms are so great, a great Happiness. -

Shutting of the Back-door no Reason. -

The Peace with France, the Shutting of Back-door, -

2. Ease of Burdens, Second Reason. -

Particular and extraordinary Reasons. -

Behooful for Scotland: They shall join with a rich -

2. They shall avoid the Inconvenience of being a Province. -

Two Inconveniences alleged :

They but a Northern Part.

Answ. Then we but a Southern. Nature hath made the Difference. Better for us, were Southern; then more Equality. -

The King's Residence here. -

This no more Reason in the perfect, than unperfect. -

Presence of a King, the Presence of an Angel: Now a Grievance, by Purveyors raking: Poor Men haled. This not by the King : For he is always a good Angel. -

Three Commendations of Facility in Effect:

1. We shall not be troubled with ante-nati. French Naturalization not excepted, &c. Justice will grow of itself Security.

2. Unperfect in Nature of a League ; may be broken: Perfect; One Parliament redress all. We never had Ability to make a perfect League with any Nation : - Prays it be not fatal.

3. Precedents: Many of perfect, none, but One, of this unperfect; as of France. -

Preparation the last Point. -

1. Commissioners Labour.

2. Avoiding of Disreputation.

Answ. Abrogating of hostile Laws helps that. -

In the Opinion of this House, a Mistaking of the Law. No Disreputation to swerve from the Instrument. -

Whether first a Benefit, and then a Duty, preposterous : First a Duty, and then a Benefit. -

Such a Proceeding with Commerce and Naturalization, as shall restrain them to a perfect Union.

1. Making Grants : Void, if, &c.

2. By way of Disabling of the Scottish Nation, if they did not assent -

1. An Act to declare our common Consent, and Content, for a perfect Union.

2. To appoint some Commissioners of both Nations, to prepare.

Mr. Speaker remembereth, that this is a new Project, not yet dealt in,

Sir Tho. Holcroft: - That we might consider, what Answer.

Mr. Speaker readeth the last Message, and remembereth our Answer.

Sir Herbert Crofts: - The Rubs have always made Men return to the Wish of a perfect Union. -

Knots, and Doubts, in the hostile Laws themselves. -

That the Reasons for the perfect Union might, by Mr. Speaker, be delivered to the King. -

No Contrarieties that the Scotts did not desire it, and that they did ; for they do not desire the perfect. -

1. That we may go on with the hostile Laws :

2. That we may present the Reasons.

Sir Geo. Moore: - The unperfect no Impediment to the perfect. Commerce in part no Hindrance to the full Commerce. Naturalization in part, so as still they may aim at the perfect; else not perfect.

Sir Henry Poole: - That the Conference is suspended, That, in regard of his Majesty's Speech, we may give his Majesty some Satisfaction, before we confer. -

This unperfect no Way to the perfect. So above in Royalties, and Liberties, as they have no Reason to seek it.

To dispute it again To-morrow.