Die Martis, 17 Aug. 1641.
Defence of the Kingdom.
ORDERED, That the Committee, appointed to
put the Kingdom into a Posture of Defence, do
meet this Afternoon, at Two of Clock, in the usual
vice lecta est Billa, An Act for making the Chapel
of Wapping parochial.
Leave of Absence.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Mr. Shuttleworth
shall have Leave to go into the Country.
Money for Army Service.
Ordered, That Twenty thousand Pounds, out of the
Money received at Westminster and London, shall be
forthwith sent down for the Disbanding of the King's
Army; and that the said Twenty thousand Pounds
shall be paid into the Hands of such Person or Persons,
as Sir Wm. Uvedall hath authorized and left here for
that Purpose: And they are hereby required to take
care to send it down with all convenient Speed: And
Acquittances, under such Person or Persons Hands,
shall be a sufficient Discharge to the Treasurers and Receivers at Westminster and London, for so much Monies
as shall be, by virtue of this Order, paid unto the
Letter to Ld. General.
A Letter presented from the Committee was read;
and allowed of; and ordered to be fair written, to be
sent to the Lord General.
House to sit.
A Message from the Lords by Sir Rob. Rich, and
The Lords are resolved to sit this Afternoon at Three
of Clock: Their Desire is, that this House would do
the like, if it may stand with their Conveniency.
Answer returned by the said Messengers;
The House hath taken into Consideration their Lordships Message; and is resolved to sit this Afternoon.
Soap Patents, &c.
Mr. Kinge reports the Soap Business: And, upon the
whole report thereof, it was by the House, as followeth,
Soap Patents, &c.
1. Resolved, upon the Question, That the Information of Palmer and Jones to his Majesty, to make hard
Soap with Berilla, and soft Soap without the Use of
Fire, was a deceatful Project; and the Letters Patents,
dated the 17th of December, 7mo
Car. obtained by Palmer
and others to set on Foot this Project, were illegal.
2. Resolved, upon the Question, That the Letters
Patents of Incorporation of the Soap makers of Westminster, dated 20mo
Car. and the Indenture of Covenants thereupon, dated 3° Maii, 8vo
was a Monopoly, and illegal in the Creation.
3. Resolved, That the Proclamation, dated 28° Junii,
8° Car. set forth in pursuance of the said Indentures of
Covenants, was against Law and the Liberty of the
Subject; and the said Letters Patents, Indenture of
Covenants, and Proclamation, were a great Grievance
in the Execution of them.
4. Resolved, upon the Question, That Sir H. Compton,
Sir H. Guitford, Sir Nich. Fortescue, Sir Rich. Weston,
Sir Basil Brooke, Sir Edw. Stradlinge, Sir Wm. Ford,
Sir James Bagg, George Gage, Tho. Jones, Bainham
Vaughan, Fra. Townly, Tho. Russell, Beverley Briton,
5. Resolved, upon the Question, That so many of
the Persons abovenamed, as are now living, shall be
forthwith sent for, as Delinquents, by the Serjeant at
Arms attending on this House.
6. Resolved, upon the Question, That the Prosecution
in the Star chamber against Tho. Overman the elder,
Tho. Overman the younger, John Hardwicke, Rich. Hinde,
Tho. Washer, Edmund Whitwell, Symon Weeden, Wm.
Barber, Rob. Barfoote, John Revell, James Baker, John
Hayes, Jacob Troughton, Tho. Munck, Richa. Cox and
Edwin Griffin, Soap-boilers of London, the over-ruling
their Plea and Demurrer, expunging all their Answers
but "not guilty," suppressing their Interrogatories and
Depositions, the Sentence and proceedings against them,
are against Law, and the Liberty of the Subject, and
the Sentence ought to be reversed; and Thomas Overman the elder, John Hardwick, Rich. Hinde, Edmund
Whitwell, Symon Weeden, Rob. Barfoote, James Baker,
John Hayes, Jacob Troughton, Tho. Moncke, Rich. Coxe,
and Edwyn Griffin, ought to have Recompence, from
the Parties formerly voted to be Delinquents, for their
Imprisonments, Loss of Trade, spoiling their Vats, Pans,
Goods, and other Damages thereby occasioned; and
Grace Barber, the Widow of William Barber deceased,
and his Son, Ann Revill, the Widow of John Revill, and
her Children, Mary Washer, the Widow of Thomas
Washer, and her Children, and the Relict of Tho.
Overman the younger, ought to have the like Amends.
Resolved, upon the Question, That the Prosecution
of the said Star-chamber Suit against Tho. Overman,
and the rest of the London Soapers was, at the general
Charge of the Corporation of Westminster, and by the
particular Solicitation of Sir Rich. Weston, Sir Basil
Brooke, and Mr. Gage, Three of the Corporation, and
one Beere a Solicitor, for and in the Name of the whole
Corporation: And that the several Persons then of that
Corporation, and yet alive, ought to make Amends to
the several Parties aforenamed respectively.
Resolved, upon the Question, That the Decree made
in Star-chamber, the 23 of August 1633, for regulating
the Trade of Soapers, is illegal, and tends to the Subversion of the Laws of this Realm, and to the Introducing of an arbitrary Government; and is of dangerous
Consequence, and ought to be vacated.
Resolved, upon the Question, That all those that
were Covenantees with the King, by the Indenture of
Covenants, dated the 12th of April, 1636, or had any
Share in the Gains raised by the Corporation of Westminster, or Stock in that Employment, are Delinquents,
and ought to make Amends to all such as, after those
Covenants entered into were restrained the Use of their
Trades of making Soap, or sustained any Loss in their
Vats, Pans, or otherwise, by Occasion of the Corporation of Westminster.
Ordered, That it be recommitted to the Committee
for the Soap-Business, to inform themselves, by the
Minute-book of the Register for the Court of Starchamber, or otherwise, who were present, and gave their
Consent to the making of the Decree in Star-chamber,
for regulating the Trade of the Soap-boilers; and who
gave Votes in the Sentence of that Court against the
London Soap-boilers; and to consider who were the
Referrees of the Letters Patents granted to the Corporation of the Soap-boilers of Westminster; as also who were
the first Referrees of the Soap Business; and to consider, who of the Privy Council gave their Consent to
the illegal Orders made at Council-table; and to consider what other Persons have had any Benefit in the
Soap Business: And are to meet To-morrow in the
Afternoon, in the Exchequer-court.
Resolved, upon the Question, That this House holds
it fit, that the Constable of the Tower be desired, from
this House, to reside in the Tower during his Majesty's
Absence; and to command Fifty of the Trained Band
of the Hamlet Men for the Day-time, and other Fifty
for the Night-time, to continue in the Tower for the
Defence thereof in his Majesty's Absence, and such of
the City of London as he shall set.
Ordered, That the Sheriff of Hampshire shall forthith, upon sight hereof, pay the Sum of Three thousand
Pounds, of the Poll-money collected in that County, to
Colonel Goring, or such as he shall authorize to receive
the same, for the Use of the Garison of Portsmouth;
and that a Receipt from Colonel Goring to the said
Sheriff, for the said Sum of Three thousand Pounds,
shall be admitted by the Treasurers appointed to receive
the Poll-money in the City of London, as if so much
Money had been paid by the said Sheriff. And it is
further Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do write his Letter
to the said Sheriff, to hasten the Payment of the said
Sum to Colonel Goring, or such as he shall appoint to
receive the same.
Ordered, That Colonel Goringe do forth with repair to
the Garison at Portsmouth; and there to remain, and
take care of the Garison, till he hear further from this
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to consider
how to put the Kingdom into a Posture of Defence do
sit this Afternoon, at Two Clock, in the Exchequercourt; and do take into Consideration the Propositions,
this Day and formerly made by Colonel Goring, concerning Matters necessary for the Garison of Portsmouth, and Defence of that Port: And Sir Ph. Stapleton
and Colonel Goring are added to that Committee.
MR. Kinge reports the Business concerning Leather;
And, because it was a Business of great Consequence,
and that the House was very thin; and that One Part
of that Business was referred to another Committee;
this Business was laid aside for this time.
Ordered, That the Report now made concerning Leather, shall be taken into Consideration on Friday Morning next: And that Mr. Green shall make Report of
that Business at the same time.
Ordered, That no Calves-skins or Hides shall be
transported, by Force of any Patent whatsoever granted
for the Transportation of Calves-skins, until this House
shall have given their Opinion of such Patent, and declare their farther Order therein.
Sir Wm. Armyn, Mr. Strode, Mr. Theloall, Sir Jo.
Price, are appointed to go to the Lord Keeper, to acquaint him what this House has been informed, concerning the Putting of Mr. Arth. Price out of the Commission of Peace for the County of Montgomerye, and
Blany and Jux; and require an Account from him.
Person sent for.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Robert Lyner shall
be forthwith sent for, as a Delinquent, by the Serjeant at
Arms attending on this House; for refusing to deliver
up the Custody of the Magazine into the Hands of a
Protestant, he himself being a Recusant.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Mr. Jo. Blany
shall be forthwith sent for, as a Delinquent, by the
Serjeant at Arms attending on this House.
Mr. Hollis, Sir Ph. Stapleton, Sir Jo. Colpeper, Mr.
Greene, Mr. Strode, Sir Edw. Hungerford, Mr. Morley,
Sir Hen. Milmy, Sir Walt. Earle, Sir Jo. Clatworthy,
Sir Wm. Armyn, Sir Arth. Haselrigg, Mr. Pym;
This Committee is to prepare Heads for a Conference
with the Lords, concerning the Disarming of Recusants.
Privilege - Sir J. Thinne, &c.
Mr. Whistler reports the Case between Sir James
Thinne, and Sir Frederick Henry Thinne his Brother.
Resolved, upon the Question, That Sir James Thinne
shall not have the Privilege of Parliament in this Case,
now reported between him and his Brother Sir Frederick
Defence of the Kingdom.
A Message from the Lords, by Sir Ro. Rich, and Sir
The Lords desire a free Concurrence, by a Committee
of both Houses, presently, in the Painted Chamber, if
it may stand with the Conveniency of this House, concerning the Defence of the Kingdom.
Answer returned by the same Messengers;
This House has taken their Lordships Message into
Consideration; and will give a present Meeting, as is
* Hotham; * Hollis, Sir Gervase Clifton, Mr. Martin,
* Perd, * Strode, are appointed Reporters of this free
Ordered, That Mr. Fountaine, Mr. Hales, and Mr.
Glover, shall be assigned to be of Counsel with Mr.
Fisher, before a Committee, unto which the Petition of
the said Mr. Fisher is referred.
Proceedings against Recusants.
Sir Wm. Lewis, by Appointment, went up to the
Lords with this Message; to desire a free Conference,
by a Committee of both Houses, so soon as may stand
with their Lordships Conveniency, concerning Proceedings against Recusants.
Mr. Pym reports from the Committee, appointed to
prepare Heads for a Conference to be desired with the
Lords, concerning the Proceedings against Recusants.
The first Head agreed upon is this; That, because
former Directions about the Disarming and Convicting
of Recusants have been frustrated, therefore to desire
the Lords, that Commissioners, or Committees, may be
forthwith sent into Counties of most Danger (as Yorkshire, Lancashire, and other Counties) authorized by Ordinance of Parliament, to see that the Papists be disarmed in those Counties: And that they may have Power
to examine where the Defect hath been, that the Disarming and Convicting of them hath not been put in
Execution: And to inquire the Cause thereof.
Next, To let the Lords understand, that the Conviction of divers Recusants hath been hindered, under
Pretence of Privilege of Parliament from their Lordships; and to declare unto their Lordships, that the Opinion of this House is, that no Privilege of Parliament
ought to be allowed in this Case, for these Reasons: 1.
Privilege of Parliament is not to be allowed in case of
Peace, if the Peace be required. 2. It is not to be allowed against any Indictment for any thing done out of
Parliament. 3. It is not to be allowed in case of publick Service for the Commonwealth; for that it must not
be used for the Danger of the Commonwealth. 4. It is
in the Power of the Parliament, and doth not bind the
Parliament itself: So that their Lordships may withdraw
their own Privilege as they see Cause; and therefore to
declare, that in these Two Cases, of Disarming of Recusants, and Convicting of them, no Privilege of Parliament ought to be allowed.
Next, To desire their Lordships, all Certiorari's in the
King's Bench in this Case be superceded, that do hinder
free Proceedings in this Kind; and that those that are Recusants, as also justly suspected, may be disarmed by the
Common Law; as, in case of a Riot, or other Mischief,
a Justice of Peace may use his Power to prevent it.
Next, That Precedents are extant: That the Marquis
of Winchester, the Earl of Arundell, and others, have
been disarmed, being Recusants.
Lastly, That these Commissioners, or Committee,
may be armed with Power to give the Oath of Allegiance
Sir Wm. Lewis brings Answer, that the Lords will
give a present Meeting, at a free Conference, by a
Committee of the whole House, as is desired.
The same Committee that was appointed to prepare
Heads for, this free Conference, are likewise appointed
Managers of this Conference.
Person to be brought up.
That Sir Rich. Minshall shall be forthwith brought to
the Bar; and upon his Acknowledgment of his Offence,
shall be forthwith released from * *
Payments to Northern Counties.
Ordered, That Acquittances under the Hands of any
Three of the Scotts Commissioners, shall be a sufficient
Discharge to the Earl of Warwick, for all such Sums of
Money, as he hath, by Order of this House, at any time,
paid unto the Scotts Commissioners for Relief of the
James' Trunks, &c.
Whereas, upon the Commitment of Mr. John James
to the Gatehouse, some Members of the House were, by
Order, commanded to seal up the Trunks of the said
John James: It is this Day Ordered, That the said John
James shall have the said Trunks delivered unto him,
which, by the said Order, were sealed up as aforesaid,
and likewise his Cloaths and Money.
Commrs to Scotland.
Ordered, That, To-morrow at Eight of Clock, the
Business concerning the Instructions to be given to those
Members, that are appointed to go from both Houses
into Scotland, shall be taken into Consideration: And
that after that Business, the Consideration of securing
the Tower shall be resumed.