House of Commons Journal Volume 1
18 April 1614

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 18 April 1614', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 466-468. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=663 Date accessed: 18 September 2014.


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Lunae, 18o Aprilis

Distribution of Collection.

THE Distribution of the Collection to be referred to Mr. Speaker, Mr. Pittes, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Watson, and Mr. Dowbleday.

Stolyon's Estate.

L. 1. An Act for Tho. Stolyon to sell his Lands, for the Payment of his Debts.

Taxes. &c.

L. 2. An Act concerning Taxes and Impositions upon Merchants.

Sir Mawrice Berkeley: - That no Bill so acceptable as this: None so grievous as this to the Subject. That this depriveth the King of the Money, and of much of the Love of the Subjects. That the Case of Currants, in the Exchequer, opened the Flood-gate of these Impositions.

- Hopeth it will pass the Lords. Moveth for a Commitment of the Bill, with a special Recommendation of it to the Lords, when it shall have passed this House.

Sir George Moore: - That laid in the Bill, That the former Impositions laid, to be against the Law ; where a Judgment for it directly in the Exchequer, that it stood warranted by Law. - Moveth, that Point may be disputed, before it be committed.

Mr. Fuller: - That he the Cause this Matter was questioned the last Parliament: That this Point argued by the Lawyers the last Parliament. Resolved then, that, by the Law, no Impositions might be laid without Authority of Parliament; and a Bill passed this House to that Purpose.

Sir Herbert Croftes, - for the Bill; for that, Impositions standing, no Man certain of the Property, but only of the Use, of his own Goods. - That strongly maintained, and this Point cleared, upon Argument, the last Parliament. - Is against the Debate of it here. Moveth, it may be committed ; and the Committees may consider of all such Things in the Bill as may give any Touch to his Majesty's Honour, &c.

Mr. Brooke moveth a Commitment. - Not to argue; but that all the Lawyers may look up their Notes, and attend the great Committee; and after, a Petition, or Remonstrance, may go from this House to his Majesty, to further the Passage of the Bill. - Hope of that (it standing not warranted the King's by Law) sithence his Majesty, by his Bills of Grace, offereth us that which is his own. - Moveth, this House may take, at the least, a continual Claim ; lest, these Things standing, daring the King's Life, without Claim, our Entry after be taken away. -

That the Arguers last, for the King, alleged the King might do it in some Cases moderately, &c.

This Matter of Imposition never ruled by Law, till the unhappy Case in the Exchequer. -

If the King may impose by his absolute Power, then no Man certain what he hath ; for it shall be subject to the King's Pleasure. -

Not to leave our Posterity in worse Case than our Ancestors have left us. - A Commitment now-: No meddling in till after Easter.

Mr. Whitlocke: - That the Case, for the King's imposing without Act of Parliament, by Voice of the House then ruled; not now therefore to go back. -

The King no Benefit by any Imposition. - At his coming in, but Two or Three; now 1,000, or 1,100. -

No Imposition till Queen Marye's Days: Then Imposition for Cloth. -

1o Eliz. that complained of, as a Grievance. Dyer. -

No Resolution of that Reference then made; which sheweth the Judges would have long sithence resolved it, if they could have done it for the King. -

That, upon Consideration, a Declaration of the Law may be made, to the Satisfaction of the King, &c.

Sir Roger Owen: - Not to have this argued again in the House. - That the King of England hath as much Power as any other King of the World; but that the King (as appeareth by many Acts of Parliament then seen, though the Judges never saw them, and by divers others he hath seen sithence) - clear, the King cannot do it. - Moveth a Commitment; and that, at the Committee, the Lawyers, &c. may argue, &c.

Mr. Middleton: - Strange, that the King requiring Supply, we should take from him. - That the Danger, lest the Impositions now covering the Sea, should break over, and overflow the Land. - That, if it be considered what the Merchant hath paid for Impositions, if the King have received it, he should not need to require Supply now..

Sir Dudley Digges: - That the Fall of a Merchant, a Feather pulled away from the Commonwealth. - That the Judgment in the Exchequer erroneous. - No Reason of Imposition upon Goods upon the Sea, more than upon the Land. - That if Imposition had been required by Parliament upon divers unnecessary Things, he should have furthered it. - Moveth a Commitment. - No general Argument, but a Collection of all the Sum of the Arguments; whereby the great Lords, and his Majesty, may see the Precedents and Grounds whereupon the Resolution of the last Parliament grounded. - Hopeth, the King and Lords will be satisfied.- -

Edw. the Confessor, upon Sight of 20,000l. of Danegilt, his Conscience struck him ; and commanded no more should be gathered. -

Hopes, upon Examination, a little Devil may be seen sitting upon these Impositions, which will take them away.

Mr. Hackwill: - Wisheth, his Tongue might cleave to the Roof of his Mouth if not speak to this Bill; it is of that Importance. - That he pitied them that last Parliament began the Question. - Confident upon the Arguments, and Judgment in the Exchequer. - That, after he had heard the Matter argued, and seen the Precedents, he converted ; so now remaineth; and will do his best to convert his Brethren. -

That 472, or thereabouts, of the House; of these above 300 new, not of the last Parliament; whereof divers young. - Desireth now, they may understand the true State of their Right, to leave it for hereafter to Posterity.

Mr. Hoskyns moveth, before Consideration of Supply, the Issue of this may be known ; for that these Impositions the Cause of the King's Want. For,

1. Merchants cannot trade to make 10 in the 100l. - Use therefore at 10 in the 100.

2. The People impoverished by Usury, by this Means of forbearing Trade.

3. Contractors for buying of the Crown Land, no Custom paid, gain a 100 in the 100.- - Sell it at hard Rates to divers, by Parcels; at such Rates as undoeth them.

Mr. Whitson: - Not acquainted with the Bill, till heard in the House ; but if Forty Hearts, it should have it. -

A Simile : Mary and Martha: Hoc unum est necessarium-. - Wisheth not to laugh; for he ready to weep. -

No Man can wear a Shirt, or a Band, but tasteth of this. - Rather a Subsidy every Month, than they should stand. -

Ed. III. - An Imposition upon Wool. The King prayed the People to bear that Imposition from February till Pentecoste. Would not have prayed, if by Law he might have done it. -

To petition the King to take them away. - A Means to supply the King, without Grievance to any Subject.

Sir H. Mountague: - For the Matter, his Zeal with the forwardest. - Speaketh against it, for want of sufficient Declaration, or Provision, to reform it. - If that which Mr. Middleton hath spoken of, may be proved, fit to be embraced.

This Bill to be committed to the whole House, in this To-morrow Fortnight.

Sir Wm. Strowde moveth all the Lawyers of the House that Day attend the Committee, without any Excuse.

Sabbath; Non-residence, &c.

Mr. Fuller delivereth in Two Bills: One, for the Sabaoth; the other, against Non-residency, Pluralities, &c.

Wales.

L. 2. An Act of Repeal of One Branch of the Statute 34 H. VIII. for Wales.

Mr. Davys: - He a Welsheman. - Ancient.-Brittons, of Brutus. He Three Sons. Of his third Son, Camber, cometh Cambria, Wales. This only not conquered by the Romans, Danes, Normans. Not incorporated to England till 27 H. VIII. then Knights and Burgesses for the Parliament, and to be ruled by the Laws of England. 34 H. VIII. they had Knights and Burgesses here. Then they sought Government by the Laws of England, before Government by a Justice: By that, Sheriffs, Justices of Peace, Assises, &c. -

Extolleth the King's Grace, for Release of his Power, with many Thanks. - The Form to be reformed. The Title and Bill differ; and the Bill misreciteth the Statute of H. VIII. - Moveth a Commitment.

Mr. Hitchcocke: - That by reading the Statute, and Bill, it will appear to be a mere Shew, no Grace. The Proviso, as penned in the copulative, cannot hurt them.

Mr. Jones: - That the Danger not so much to be feared, as by Mr. Davys. That he moved the Repeat of that Branch. That, being questioned last Parliament, one moved (without the King's Privy) quid vultis mihi dare? So left by them. -

By the Statute of 34 H. VIII. a Power given only to alter the Form, not the Substance, of the Laws. - That it reacheth not to other than H. VIII. - The King then specially described. - Laws for the Good of that Country. - Special Provision, those Laws should not extend to Lands, Tenements, &c.

Committed to all the Welshemen of the House, and all the Knights and Burgesses for Wales, and of the Four Shires of Gloucester, Worcester, Hereford, Monmouth, and Salop, and Bristow, and Chester, the King's learned Counsel, all the Lawyers of the House, Sir Edwyn Sands, Sir Herbert Croftes, Sir Roger Owen, Mr. Connock, Sir Henry Wallopp, Sir Ro. Sydney, Sir Mawryce Berkeley, Sir James Scydamore, Mr. James, Sir Dudley Digges, Sir Chr. Hatton, Sir Wm. Croftes, Sir Wm. Brereton, Sir Francis Popham, Sir Olyver Cromwell, Sir Edw. Hobby, Sir Edw. Mountague: - Friday after Easter Week, in the Afternoon, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Committees.

Sir Edwyn Sands moveth, the Clerk may set upon the House-door, that Morning, the Orders for Committees to sit that Day : And ordered.

Sheriffs Accounts.

Mr. Serjeant Mountague bringeth in the Bill of Grace, for the Ease of Sheriffs, &c. in passing of their Accounts.

L. 1. An Act for the Passing of the Accounts of Sheriffs.

Carriages.

L. 1. An Act against outrageous Carriages.

A Bill.

Sir Jo. Sammes delivereth a Bill against * * * *