East Indies
October 1622

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Institute of Historical Research

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W. Noel Sainsbury (editor)

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1878

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69-72

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'East Indies: October 1622', Calendar of State Papers Colonial, East Indies, China and Japan, Volume 4: 1622-1624 (1878), pp. 69-72. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=69751 Date accessed: 02 September 2014.


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Contents

Oct 1622

1622.
Oct. 9.
St. Martin's
Lane.
160. Sec. Calvert to (Carleton). Has not been at any of the conferences of late with the States Ambassadors about the East India business, and therefore cannot advertise him in what state it stands, but doubts there remain difficulties yet on both sides that will have much ado to be accommodated. [Extract from Holland Corresp.]
Oct. 12.161. Locke to Carleton. Message sent by the Privy Council to the States Ambassadors to insist upon things only which were reasonable, as the Lords had charged the English merchants to do the like, that so a conclusion might be quickly come to. [Extract from Domestic Corresp., Jac. I., Vol. CXXXIII., No. 49, Cal., p. 454.]
Oct. 16.
St. Martin's
Lane.
162. Sec. Calvert to (Carleton). Has before advertised him of some distaste taken by the States Ambassadors here at the disappointment of days of meeting, they coming still at the hour prefixed, and his Majesty's Commissioners divers times failing, and by that means the States, after two or three hours attendance in the Council Chamber, sent back again for want of a convenient number to treat with them. Yesterday, after two or three adjournments before, the States Ambassadors coming at the appointed hour found none of the Commissioners but Mr. Treasurer Edmondes, the Master of the Rolls, and himself, who were thus forced to excuse the conference again, though with shame enough; but they took it so ill, as they went away in great anger, professing that they would meet no more, but would instantly take their leave of his Majesty and be gone, and nothing would pacify them. Thinks when he (Calvert) has been there they have had less reason than the English for the business itself, yet for the manner used towards them "they have much cause to be sensible, for certainly it hath been too bad." Blames nobody in particular, but is sure there has been a great fault amongst some of the Lords. He will do well for the King's honour, if any complaint is made at the Hague, to solve it the best he can; for his own part he has complained to the King by letter and expects an answer this day. Before sealing this letter the Lords who were absent sent to the Ambassadors to excuse yesterday's fault and got them to meet again this afternoon (only M. Aerssens was not there). They have been wrangling after the old manner, through their stiffness, who will not yield to anything however clear that shall displease their merchants; they can conclude nothing, but are every day more weary than other. [Holland Corresp.]
Oct. 16.
Firando in
Japan.
163. [Jos. Cockram] to Marmaduke Stevinton, Principal at Jambi. Concerning the Manilla fleet. Has determined to go himself in the Bull, and leave the Elizabeth to bring away Capt. Cocks, William Eaton, and Edward (? Edmund) Sayer, whilst John Osterwick will remain principal of the factory. The Manilla voyages have not proved so profitable as troublesome and chargeable. The first voyage produced 39,549 ryals, one-sixteenth of which they were constrained to give to the mariners. Thinks this was a politic act, and that the last vōyage will produce 200,000 ryals. Order from [the Emperor ?] that the goods of the frigate captured by the Elizabeth be given up to his factor, Gonrockdono, but has given them [the ship ?] which is all rotten. By the Palsgrave. [One page. O.C., Vol. IX., No. 1083.]
Oct. 16.
Firando.
164. John Osterwick to Marmaduke Stevinton. The Manilla fleet safely arrived in June last, with a cargo worth 200,000 ryals, since when letters have been received from Batavia from the Council of Defence, for dissolving these Manilla voyages, and ordering the Moon and Palsgrave to be sent for Jambi. He will receive advice of their troubles concerning the taking of a frigate by the Elizabeth. [One page. O.C., Vol. IX., No. 1084.]
Oct. 19.165. [The Lords Commissioners] to the King. According to his commandment, signified by the Lord Admiral to the Treasurer, they have considered the points of the States Ambassadors' memorial, wherein they appeal to his judgment, and have commanded some of the principal of the merchants to attend his Majesty, with the judge of the Admiralty who has assisted them in all their proceedings, with their written answers. Represent to his Majesty's deeper judgment the great consequence which this audience of the States Ambassadors will produce one way or other; either the subsistence or utter overthrow of that noble and worthy trade of the East Indies, and consequently a revenue to the King of 40,000l., and the livelihood and whole fortunes of many of his Majesty's subjects, and, what is dearer to him than all the rest, the honour of himself and the realm; cannot tell what the Ambassadors pretend by craving this sudden audience, but hope that the King will not permit them to enter into any debate, until they shall absolutely submit themselves wholly to his Majesty's judgment and sentence, otherwise they will fly off at the end if his Majesty's resolution be not like to sort to their contentment; and if they refuse this submission, the Lords Commissioners think all should be left to a legal trial by way of special commission which is in that case a fair, a just, and honourable way, and not without precedent, which being so ordered there rests no more to be done touching redress of grievances past; "As also if in the examination of all the particulars your Maj. shall find the difficulties to be such as that you cannot satisfy the said Ambassadors, but that they continue strict, wilful, and opiniative upon their own pretended grounds without acknowledging by contentment, it will be still always in your power and theirs, either to determine it upon their first submission according to your own conscience though against their liking, or else to refer the decision of all or part in that case unto the legal course aforementioned as your Maj. in your own great wisdom shall think fittest." The reglement of trade for the future the greatest importance of all will fall next into consideration, which if well settled, may make both Companies happy enough, and prevent such mischiefs and enormities as have happened. This being a business of such weight, and requiring so much debate with the merchants on both sides, the Privy Council presume his Majesty will not trouble himself with it, but will refer it to a new conference, wherein the Privy Council will proceed so as to cause no complaint of sincerity or neglect. Endorsed by Bradshaw: "A letter from the Lds. Comrs to the King touching the Treaty." [East Indies, Vol. II., No. 26.]
Oct. 21.
Royston.
166. The King to the Lords Commissioners for the Treaty with the Ambassadors of the States of the United Provinces. Yesterday, after having read their letter and heard with great patience the whole afternoon both our merchants and the States Ambassadors touching three of the five articles, those of the Black Lion, and of damages being referred to the end of the treaty, the King found it impossible to make an end between them, and at length called the Ambassadors privately and asked them, "to what end they desired this hearing of us, who are not experienced in matter of merchandize, and in this business had no more power to conclude their voices than they to conclude ours." They "shifted off" the King's proposal that they should submit the matter to his decision, and in the end were brought to this, that they should meet the Commissioners again, who, his Majesty undertook, should carefully observe the times of meeting, and labour to bring matters to an end without any unnecessary contestation, not following the desires of the merchants, but what they shall find agreeable to justice and equity. They are specially charged that at his Majesty's coming to Theobalds, they either make an end as far as they can, or make it appear to his Majesty that the Dutch are unreasonable, that in case the treaty should break off, all the world may see that the fault is not in the King. "In the point of the siege of Bantam our opinion is, for ought we see, that it is very reasonable which the Dutchmen demand, that our [this word our is written the in the copy, see ante, No. 153] merchants should be at half the charge, where the profit is to be common between them; and the Ambassadors assure us that all of you (saving only you, our Treasurer) were of the same mind." Signed, James R. [East Indies, Vol. II., No. 27.]
Oct. 24.167. The Lords Commissioners to the King. Will carefully observe his commandment dated from Royston, the 21st inst.; and since it is his pleasure that they should return to the same disputes, will most willingly undergo the pains, whatever the success proves, which "depends on their conformity to reason and not upon ours." May not omit to represent to his Majesty the wrong the States Ambassadors have done the King's Commissioners in mistaking their opinions touching the siege of Bantam, and singling out the Treasurer as differing from all the rest in that point concerning the proportion of the charge, whereas the truth is, all thought fit there should be a proportionable allowance made according to the treaty, which seems an ill requital for their real and sincere endeavours and extraordinary patience. Beseech his Majesty to consider what hope can they have to accommodate these unlucky differences, when the Ambassadors to his Majesty seek to divert all consultation concerning the future reglement of trade, pretending that it is a matter altogether unnecessary, whereas it is apparent enough that the whole subsistence of that important trade, with the safety of the lives, goods, and liberties of his subjects, wholly depend upon it. [East Indies, Vol. II., No. 28.]
Oct. 25.
Hague.
168. Carleton to Sir Francis Nethersole. The hopes which the States Ambassadors expressed, at the beginning of this month, of a speedy good end in their treaty, are since much cooled by new delays. Prays God other affairs do not cool likewise. [Extract from Holland Corresp.]
Oct. 26.
London.
169. Chamberlain to Carleton. The States Commissioners went to Royston a week ago with intention, as was thought, to take their leave, but there being no agreement betwixt them and the English East India merchants, the King has undertaken to reconcile the most difficult point touching damages, if the latter will rely on his justice and not suspect his integrity, otherwise he will not meddle with the business. [Extract from Domestic Corresp., Jac. I., Vol. CXXXIII., No. 59, Cal., p. 456.]