House of Commons Journal Volume 1
04 March 1607

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 04 March 1607', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 347-348. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=7149 Date accessed: 20 September 2014.


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Mercurii, 4 Martii, 1606

Committees.

SUNDRY Committees adjourned.

Attendance

L. 1a. B. For the better Attendance of the Members of the Commons House of Parliament : -

Upon this first Reading, much disputed, and termed by one, a scandalous, idle, needless Bill: Argued by divers ; Mr. Wentworth, Sir William Strowd, Mr. Pembridge, Sir Robert Wingfield, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir Edw. Hobby, Sir Roland Litton, Sir Henry Poole, Mr. Bond, Sir Walter Cope, Mr. Alford, Mr. Crewe.

A Question moved, for Rejectment; but admitted a second Reading.

Union with Scotland.

Sir Edward Hobby reporteth the Deliberation of the select Committee Yesterday, touching the several Messages : Saith, there was no Discrepance or Disunion amongst them, touching the Order of the Messages. -

It was moved amongst them, as an Advise to the House, that considering the Time we have lost, we should now bend ourselves to bring to pass the holy Desire of his Majesty's Heart; and that the great Committee should instantly enter into Debate and Consideration of the Point of Conveniency, with such Cautions and Limitations, as might be fitting.

The Manner of Message to the Lords was diversly considered on, and at last agreed to be in this Form; viz.

That we have considered, for their Lordships better Satisfaction, of their Answer made Yesterday to our Message ; by which we found, their Lordships left unto us the Understanding and Construction of their first general Message. If in the Generality thereof their Intent be to treat of the Point of post nati, as how their Case standeth in Law, their Lordships already have discovered our Opinions and Inclinations; since which Time we have either seen or heard ought available to alter our Opinions; and if in the Generality of their first Message they intend to treat of the Point of Conveniency, we must signify unto their Lordships, that we hold it a great Matter of State, and therefore fittest for them, of greatest Practice in the State, to deal therein: Notwithstanding if their Lordships will deal freely with us, and open themselves, and thereby give Light to our Proceedings, we will be ready to attend the Service with their Lordships, at any Time, at their good Pleasures. This Message was committed to Sir Edward Hobby.

In the Interim were read, -

Pluralities.

L. 2a. B.Against Pluralities and Non-residence;and,upon the second Reading, committed to the Lord Howard of Walden, the King's learned Counsel, Sir Francis Hastings, Sir Roger Wilbraham, Sir Nathan. Bacon, Sir Daniel Dun, Sir Thomas Crompton, Sir Chro. Perkins, Sir Edward Mountague, Sir William Fleetwood, Sir Anthony Cope, Sir Anthony Rowse, Mr. Fuller, Sir Gamaliel Capell, Sir Oliver St. John, Sir Henry Carey, Sir Hugh Beeston, Sir John Heigham, Mr. Bond, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Hoskins, Mr. Turpin, Mr. Recorder of London, Sir William Harvye, Sir Roland Litton, Sir Robert Wingfield, Sir William Herbert: - To meet Tomorrow Morning, in the Committee Chamber.

Tillage in Herefordshire.

L. 2a. B. For the better Provision of Meadow and Pasture, for necessary Maintenance of Husbandry and Tillage in the Manors, Lordships, and Parishes of Marden, alias Mawarden, &c. in the County of Hereford: - Secondly read, and committed to Sir Herbert Crofts, the Knights and Burgesses of Hereford, Sir Robert Johnson, Mr. Pembridge, Mr. Recorder of London, Sir John Savill, Sir Edward Mountague, Sir Thomas Waller, Sir James Perrott, Mr. Bond, Sir Robert Mansfield, Mr. Alford, Sir Geo. Manors, the Citizens of Worcester. Sir William Cook, Sir Walter Cope, Sir Robert Hitcham, Mr. Nicholas, Mr. Gawyn, Sir John Hollis, Sir Roger Dallyson, Sir John Sheffield, Mr. Prowse, Mr. Chock: - To meet on Friday next, in the Exchequer Chamber.

Waller's Estate.

L. 1a. B. For the Sale of some of the Lands of William Waller Esquire, for the Payment ot 505l. 10s. 6d. for the Performance of a Decree in Chancery.

This Bill being preferred the last Session, and then proceeding to Committee, the Committees did treat between the Parties, for a Reference to certain Judges, and in Default of their End, to the Lord Chief Justice's Umperage; who, by Letter to Mr. Speaker, giving Accoun of his Travel, Mr. Speaker produced the Letter, and was, by Direction, read in the House, in these Words:

Mr. Speaker:

WHEREAS Warren, in the last Session of Parliament, exhibited a Bill to that House against Mr. Waller, concerning a Decree made in the Chancery; upon the Commitment of which Bill, it pleased the Committees so to treat between the Parties, as the Matter, by their Assents, was referred to the Order and Ending of certain of the Judges, and in Default of their End, to my Umperage; and they having beard it, and not being able to do any Good between the Parties, the Matter came to my Hearing; wherein, though it were long before I could get Mr. Waller to come to it, excusing himself still, through the Want or Absence of his Counsel; yet, at length, I heard it thoroughly, at several Times: And although I saw, in mine own Conscience, great Equity, not only to relieve the poor Man in his Demand, but also to give him good Satisfaction for his long Delay and Charges; yet, if I had found any Reason, in Mr. Waller, I was determined in respect of the poor Man's Quiet, to have moderated some Part of that, which I thought in Conscience was to have been satisfied unto him : But finding Mr. Waller so perversely bent, as not to be satisfied, but that himself had been greatly injured in the Proceedings against him ; I could not find in him, for any Persuasions that I could use, any manner of Willingness to depart with any thing; so as if I had, by the Authority given unto me, done any thing for the Relief of the poor Man, I should have heaped on myself such Clamour from Mr. Waller, as I was not willing to endure; and therefore have left off to deal any further therein, submitting that Cause to the further Consideration of that honourable House. And even so I

wish you heartily well. At Serjeants Inn, this last of February, 1606.

Your very loving and assured Friend,

John Popham.

Lords except to Message.

Sir Edward Hobby giveth Account of his Message ; and said, that where, in his Entrance into it, he used these Words, " The Knights, Citizens, Burgesses, and Barons of the Commons Court of Parliament," &c. they did expostulate with him, for using the Word Barons, and the Word Court; and desired him to explain himself in the Words, attend the Service, in the latter Part of the Message.

His Answer was, he had delivered the Message, and durst not explain himself; he had no such Commission. The Answer he brought from the Lords, was; That, considering the Message was of many Parts, they would send by Messengers of their own, if the House would be pleased to sit a while.

Bastards.

Mr. Fuller reporteth, from the Committee, the Bill touching the Punishment of reputed Fathers and Mothers of Bastards.

Mr. Francis Moore moveth some Exceptions to the Matter of the Bill, and that it might be recommitted, with some Committees to be added: Which was so ordered; and some named, to meet with the rest in the Committee Chamber, To-morrow Morning; viz. Mr. Francis Moore, Sir Henry Nevill, of Berk. Sir Francis Goodwyn, Mr. Pembridge, Mr. Crewe, Mr. Bacchus.

Lords Exception to Message.

The House sat, and expected a Message from the Lords, till after One a Clock; which at length came down by Sir John Crook and Mr. D. Stanhope, in these Terms.

That the Strength of both Houses doth consist in nothing more than in Conservation of the Rights and Privileges of both ; and that their Lordships are very tender in admitting any thing to pass unanswered, which might tend to the Prejudice of those Rights: Something their Lordships observed in the Message sent, which they rather conceived to be lapsus linguae, a thing that may befall any Man, than either intended by the Messengers, or the House. The Error conceived was, that the Messenger delivered, that the Knights, Citizens, Burgesses, and Barons of the Commons Court of Parliament had sent him, &c. In this they thought good to use that Freedom which one Friend useth with another; being desirous to let this House know, that they can never admit, that any Baron of Parliament hath Place in this House, though some, sitting here, in other Respects have that Appellation ; and the Burgesses of the Cinque Ports receive that Denomination in the Place where they dwell. And their Lordships further conceive, that this House is no Court, and that their House and this make but One Court.

For the Matter, they are sorry that we should use any such Reservation with them, that have dealt with us in all Freedom; and where there hath been many Messages, and sundry Consultations, touching the great Business in hand, wherein their Lordships have intended and laboured all Clearness and Expedition; they now desire, for a further Proceeding, and a more direct Carriage of it, the late Message, of attending the Service with them, may be explained, as a Promise, that this House meant to have a Conference with their Lordships, touching the Point of Conveniency; which if they did, their Lordships do further desire, that it may be with the same Committees, on Saturday next, at the usual Time and Place.

Ditto.

The select Committee was appointed to take into Consideration this Message; as also to consider, what further Course of Proceeding, by way of Message, or otherwise, it shall be fit for the House to enter into; and to report their Opinions Tomorrow Morning.

The great Committee appointed also to meet this Afternoon, in the Parliament-house, and to debate the Point of Conveniency amongst themselves.