Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1882.
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'Spain: May 1533, 16-25', in Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533, (London, 1882) pp. 676-687. British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/spain/vol4/no2/pp676-687 [accessed 23 April 2024]
May 1533, 16-25
| 18 May. | 1073. The Same to the Same. |
|---|---|
| K. u. K. Haus- Hof-u.-StaatsArch. Wien. Rep.P.Fasc., c. 228, No. 30. |
Notwithstanding the promise of the Privy Council that within three days' time I should get an answer to my letter —as I had the honour to inform Your Majesty in my last despatch —a week has now passed without my receiving any intimation about it. Whether it be that the King and his councillors wish to gain time, as usual, or that they want to deliberate further on the subject of my said letter, the fact is that up to the present I have had no summons. Last Tuesday, however, the duke of Norfolk and some of the councillors invited me to dine with them, but considering the circumstances and the unsatisfactory state of affairs, and wishing not to create or encourage the suspicion among these people that Your Majesty can possibly consent to such a detestable act as this new marriage, I declined the Duke's invitation, but nevertheless went thither after they had finished their dinner, when they tried, by alleging innumerable reasons and authorities to convince me that I ought not to, and could not, disturb or impede the jurisdiction of the archbishop of Canterbury, not only as regarded the statute newly made, which especially forbids such attempts, but also in view of the insufficiency of my powers, which they attacked in every possible way. After amply and sufficiently answering their arguments one by one, and meeting their reasoning, the councillors instead of replying as I expected, changed their tactics and began to beg me to consider of what small advantage the step I meditated would be, whereas the danger was imminent, and the inconveniences likely to arise most certain. On my side I tried to shew them that the advantage of obeying punctually Your Majesty's instructions and commands was a sufficient incentive for me; it was that which led me to proceed and act according to my charge, &c. On this head many other things were said on both sides, with the detail of which I will not trouble Your Majesty, as one-tenth part of what was said on the occasion would be enough to cause you annoyance. Yet as most of the things that were then said are linked together in a sort of chain, and stand in relation to each other, I consider it my duty to relate some of them. |
| As I have had the honour to inform Your Majesty my pursuit of this affair, and the obstinate insistence I have shewn, was never intended for the purpose of executing my threat, since far from doing good that would most probably have resulted in sundry inconveniences. It was merely that I might have occasion to shew them (the councillors) a piece of my mind on many subjects, and also to gratify the King and his Privy Council in this respect, gain credit with them for the future, and in this manner prevent any ill-treatment to which the Queen and the Princess might be subjected. This is, indeed, a delicate subject which no one here except myself would have dared to mention for fear of the Lady [Anne], and I really believe that had I not written to the King the letter copied in my last despatch, and spoken to the earl of Wiltshire, and to the rest of the Privy Council in the manner I did, the Queen would have been worse treated, whereas by means of the small gratification I have procured them by seemingly listening to their prayers and advice, I daresay I have done good service to the Queen and Princess, so much so that the former has already experienced the benefit of it, as she assures me and approves entirely of my conduct on this occasion. | |
| On Tuesday, therefore, after a most lengthy debate, nothing was decided except that I still insisted upon the execution of my charge, and threatened to go on with it unless the King caused a written answer to my letter to be made out and sent to me, containing more conclusive arguments and reasons than those alleged by the councillors. If they refused to communicate to the King this resolution of mine I would, I said, write again and ask for an answer. Upon which, and after they had promised to report accordingly, I left the Council-room and went home. | |
| On Wednesday evening I sent a message to Cremuel (Cromwell)—the oldest among the councillors and he who now enjoys most credit with the King—begging him to come to me next morning, which he most willingly promised. Having, however, informed the King of my request and of his intended visit, Cromwell was desired to go into the Royal Chamber before he came to me. As he could not see the King immediately, he was obliged to put off his visit to me for that day and sent his excuses, but yesterday morning he came and duly explained the cause of the delay. | |
| After some conversation on general matters I told Cromwell what faith I had in his good offices for the preservation of peace and friendship between Your Majesty and the King, his master, and that my faith in him would be very much shaken if in this particular instance he did not make some stir to keep up a good understanding between two such princes as the Emperor and the king of England so closely allied to each other, &c. There was no need for me to sum up the many causes and reasons for the maintenance of such amicable relations now threatened more than ever by this new and highly unprincipled marriage. I sincerely hoped that in course of time the King, his master, free from love and passion, would of himself acknowledge his error and return to the right path. (fn. n1) For that reason instead of embittering matters, or adding, as it were, oil to the fire, and considering that the execution of my charge in this particular instance might over irritate and provoke the King on various accounts and considerations which I need not recapitulate, I had resolved for the preservation of that same friendship and alliance—which I was desirous to maintain and foster—to refrain at present from the duties of my charge until I saw some change in the Queen's treatment, or received a fresh mandate from Your Majesty. "The King," I said, "and the members of his Privy Council ought to take particular care, after such an unprincipled and unlawful marriage as this one, not to give extra offence to the Emperor in minor details, such as the ill-treatment of the Queen, his aunt, the attempt to change her title, the enforced retrenchment of her expenses and household servants, the tearing off of her escutcheon from her Royal barge, and from the gate of the great hall at Vuamaystre (Westminster), such ignominious treatment being only reserved for those accused of high treason." | |
| After praising the affection which I shewed to the King, his master, Cromwell replied that he thanked me greatly for the information I had just given him about the removal of the Queen's arms. He knew nothing about that, he said, and believed that when the fact came to the King's notice he would be mightily displeased. With regard to the Queen's estate and money for her maintenance he had understood from the King himself that no retrenchment was in contemplation, &c. I said that I believed him (Cromwell) to be so much inclined to the preservation of amicable relations between Your Majesty and his master that I had not the least doubt that he had hitherto done, and would in future do all that was right ; and that the King's principal excuse being founded on the scruples of his conscience, and the wish to procure male succession, it would lose much of its plausibility if attended by these petty and unworthy offences against the Queen, and, therefore, that it was incumbent upon him to see that such ill-practices were not resorted to. "In tendering this advice," said I, "I address you as a faithful and devoted servant of the King, your master, not as the Emperor's and the Queen's friend though as I know you to be that also." | |
| Cromwell took these words of mine in good part and then began to remind me of the great favours which his master had once done not only to Your Majesty but likewise to your grandfather the emperor Maximilian, and the Catholic king of Spain (Ferdinand) of good memory, adding that he considered Your Majesty so grateful that though the Spaniards, who are a spirited people but have different notions about honour, (fn. n2) should stimulate and urge you to declare war to his master, the mere recollection of the favours received in old times would prevent you from acquiescing in their wishes. "Besides (he said) the mutual advantages accruing from the intercourse of trade between this country and the Emperor's dominions are sure to prove an obstacle to such designs, if they do really exist, to which I may add that my countrymen are not people to allow themselves to be conquered without resistance." | |
| After this the said Cromwell tried to excuse the King for having acted with such precipitation. He knew that the Pope would not do him justice, and, therefore, had resolved to give His Holiness a good slap on the face. (fn. n3) He praised much the doctrine and learning of the King, which, he said, were such as to have encouraged him to act as he had done. Having so far satisfied his conscience he thought that he was not to be blamed for what he had done. Cromwell, however, owned to me that neither the King himself nor all the princes of Christendom put together, nor all the preachers in the world, could ever persuade him that the love and affection for Lady Anne had not influenced his determination, but after all if his conscience was at rest, nobody had a right to interfere in the matter. I then interrogated Cromwell about the time and place of the new marriage, and the witnesses who had attended the ceremony, but could obtain no information whatever on the subject. The duke of Norfolk, he said, had not been present at it, but that was no reason for my doubting its celebration since he (Cromwell) knew that several members of the Privy Council had attended. He, however, refused to give their names, and would not be more explicit on the subject, though in order that he might go on with his information I distinctly told him that I could not possibly believe the marriage to have taken place since such care was taken not to publish the form of it; and that it seemed very strange that a prince so respected and obeyed, as the King was in his kingdom, should do such things under the rose (sous la chimenee), thus giving his own subjects and the rest of Chistendom matter for suspicion and slander. | |
| Having then asked him what news he had from Rome he said to me, whether dissembling or in earnest I cannot tell, that His Holiness having heard from the King's ambassador of the King's new marriage had shewn much displeasure at it, and said somewhat passionately: "Very well, we shall remedy that." | |
| With regard to the duke of Norfolk's journey, and those who were to accompany him, Cromwell told me that he knew not when their departure for France would take place. | |
| As I was perusing Your Majesty's letters of the 25th ulto, with the announcement of your very prosperous and very anxiously expected arrival in Spain—at which not only your own natural subjects and servants, but also all true and good Christians ought wonderfully to rejoice—the above-mentioned Cremuel (Cromwell) happened to enter my room. Not wishing, however, to go to Court under present circumstances, I begged him to communicate the said news to the King, and free me from that duty, which commission he (Cromwell) willingly accepted. I then read to him the paragraph relating to the good offices and offers made by the count of Tende (fn. n4) in the name of the Most Christian king [of France], adding a few remarks of my own respecting the true friendship that seemed to exist between Your Majesty and the said King, which, I observed, could not but increase daily considering your affinity and relationship, which could not be greater or closer than it was, and also the vicinity and commercial intercourse of your respective countries. No alliance, said I, could be so profitable to France as that of Your Majesty, which no one could impair or dissolve as long as you continued to be the greatest prince in Christendom. Cromwell confessed this to be true, and without shewing any particular joy at the news imparted to him left my room declaring to me before quitting that his intentions were, as he assured me, to do everything in his power to prevent any further offences being done against Your Majesty. | |
| Were I by this means or in any other way to gain my point, which is to prevent any fresh attempt to injure the Queen or the Princess, her daughter, I consider that it is as much as any man can do for the present. I will attend exclusively to that, and do my best until I receive fresh instructions. | |
| Notwithstanding my firm determination not to trouble Your Majesty with the greater part of the arguments adduced by me in support of my thesis, in the dispute with the members of the Privy Council, I have since thought that I had better inform you of some of them. Having demonstrated to the said councillors by force of reasoning that the statute against the Queen was invalid and inefficacious, inasmuch as the old treaties and confederacies forbade Your Majesty and this king to promulgate any laws, statutes, or ordinances whatever to the prejudice of the subjects of one or the other; also that the statute in question was in direct contradiction with the letter of the last treaty of peace, wherein it is expressly said and stipulated that neither of the contracting parties shall do injustice to the subjects of the other, I added that though the Queen might be considered an English subject, as they chose to assert, yet no adoption into another country could ever quite efface the nationality of birth, and that if for an injustice done to a poor sailor, or the stealing of a horse on the territory of one of the two contracting princes, peace had been often broken, for much greater reason might it be in this case, the injury being so grave, and the person attacked of such high rank, and rather more than a mere subject. | |
| This argument of mine remained without an answer, not one of the councillors present daring to say anything against it. I have reproduced it here in the very words in which it was couched, in order that should the Pope refuse to do his duty, or attempt new delays, and should Your Majesty feel inclined to take the law into your hands, you may do it hereafter without contravening the existing treaties since these people have been the first to violate them. (fn. n5) | |
| Your Majesty cannot imagine the great wish all these Englismen have that a landing force should be sent. Every day I am visited by people of quality, who break my head with speeches and writings, giving me to understand that king Richard, the last of his name, was never so much hated by his subjects as this present King is, and yet that he was dethroned by two or three thousand Frenchmen under the leadership of a prince hardly known in this country, whereas Your Majesty is very popular, and has besides in your favour a Queen, and a princess, her daughter, and a strong party comprising the whole of the nation or nearly so. This is not a question (they say) for them to decide without the help of foreigners, nor can they without assistance from abroad declare themselves openly. A good expedient (they add) to gain the favour of the English, and secure likewise the co-operation of the Scotch, would be to spread the report that Your Majesty would see with pleasure the marriage of the king of Scotland [to the princess Marry]. (fn. n6) | |
| It was fully determined not to say anything more on this delicate subject, of which I have already treated in former despatches, perhaps at greater length than my instructions authorised me to do; but the importunities of many [friends] have compelled me to do so. I beg Your Majesty's pardon if I have gone too far. | |
| To-morrow some horses of the duke of Norfolk and his suite are to leave for France. The Duke himself will start six days after, so as to be at Nizza (Nize) towards the beginning of July. | |
| Of other news I have little to report. The Pope's man who came here about the convocation for the Council, was directed hither from France for an answer; but this king's ministers sent him back saying that whatever resolution the king of that country arrived at respecting the said convocation this king would abide by. No other answer has been given him. The Privy Councillors declare that the Pope is not in earnest in this matter, and that he has no more wish of celebrating a Council than they themselves have. This notwithstanding he has been handsomely received and feasted, and has had besides a present of 300 crs. The resident Nuncio, moreover, has invited him sometimes to go to Court, no doubt in order to make people believe that they are on good terms with His Holiness, and it must be owned that whatever he (the Nuncio) may say to the contrary he has been and is entirely in their hands, having done very little real service to the Queen. | |
| Of the business of the French ambassador, who went to Scotland for the purpose of securing peace, I have been unable to hear. Since he left London I am told that he has received several letters from France, and that his mission to Scotland is principally owing to the great desire these people have of peace. | |
| A week ago two young gentlemen from France arrived in this city and went to Court. The day before yesterday on their return from the Royal residence, where one of them had been knighted [by the King], they came to visit me accompanied by the French [resident] ambassador. They were sent here by the Grand Master and by the High Admiral of France for the purpose of being installed in the chapel of the Order of the Garter at Windsor, then and there taking seat for the said lords, and performing the ceremonies prescribed on the occasion. | |
| The citizens of London are trying to make all the inhabitants contribute their share towards the expenses of this approaching coronation, which will amount to about 5,000 ducats, (fn. n7) one-third of which sum will be spent in a present for the Lady, and the rest in a pageant for the occasion. Formerly there was no difficulty in or opposition to the raising of that tax; now they want to subject all foreigners to payment; but this time, as far as I can gather, Spaniards are to be exempted, which is no doubt a compliment paid to our nation. As the Easterlings are Your Majesty's subjects, they would like to be exempted also, but considering the great privileges they enjoy in this country they fancy that it is much better for them to offer no opposition.—London, 18th May 1533. | |
| Signed: Eustace Chapuys." | |
| Addressed: "To the Emperor." | |
| Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England. Received on the 11th of June." | |
| French. Holograph. pp. 6. | |
| 21 May. | 1074. The Cardianl of Jaen [Merino] to the High Commander. |
| S. E. Rom. L. 860, f. 156. B. M. Add. 28,585, f. 253. |
Has received his letter of the 6th inst. With regard to the duchess [of Florence], since she is by this time safe in Naples, and he [Covos] will no doubt read what was written to the Emperor on the subject, there is no need for him to enter into particulars. Suffice it to say that he [the Cardinal] should have liked her to be sent for the next four months to one of the estates which the Vice-Queen [of Naples] owns in the kingdom. Such was His Holiness' wish, but the Viceroy (marquis de Villafranca) and his wife [Doña Maria Osorio Pimentel], being of opinion that she ought not to reside at Venafro during the hot season, but stay at Naples, which has a better temperature by far, it was decided, after consulting the best physicians of this capital (Rome), that the duchess (Margaret) should go thither; she must already have reached her destination; the Emperor's service in this respect has been done, so he is now free from all responsibility. |
| The count of Cifuentes had sent him an express to tell him (Merino) to make haste, and help him in preventing, if possible, the conferences of Nice. There was no need, how ever, to urge him on, for as soon as the intelligence reached him from another quarter he made all possible speed, and when the Count's message reached him on this side of Florence, and close to Siena, he (the Cardinal) was riding post, having escaped with no small difficulty the feasting and entertainments which the duke Alessandro [de' Medici] had prepared for him. | |
| (Chipher:) With regard to the interview of His Holiness with the king of France, he (Merino) must declare that the first news he had of it was at Florence. He then requested cardinal Cibo and the Duke [Alessandro] to write to the Pope and dissuade him from that journey, giving many reasons why in his opinion neither the Pope's interests nor the final pacification of Florence would be benefited by it—nay, the projected marriage of his niece (Catarina) would tell against the perpetuity of the Duke and his posterity in that government. So convinced was the Duke of his (Merino's) reasoning that he promised to write immediately to Rome. He (the Cardinal) has since his arrival at Rome said the same things to His Holiness, to Jacopo Salviati, and to Capua (Schomberg), putting before their eyes many similar cases, and pointing out the inconveniences and dangers likely to arise therefrom. Has come to the conclusion that if the Emperor wants the interview notto take place, and makes a stand against it, the Pope will not go. Jacopo Salviati has secretly told him [Merino] as much, and shewn him besides the minute of the letter which His Holiness wrote to the Emperor in his own hand through the count of Cifuentes, who, however, has not said a word to him [Merino] on the subject. | |
| Respecting the English business it is to be observed that the Pope would, if he could, act in concert with the Emperor. He seems to think that to proceed by way of open warfare (por armas) would be too laborious an undertaking, and therefore he is inclined to prorogue his censures from fear of the Emperor's not assisting him when it is needed. It seems desirable that the Emperor return a fit answer, as is his duty to do, and at the same time urge the Pope to do his, and act immediately. In all other things he (Merino) finds the Pope consistently firm in his attachment to the Emperor. Of the Count's designs in this particular business and others intrusted to his care, his conferences with His Holiness, or what he himself writes home, he (Merino) cannot judge, for that ambassador has hitherto been remarkably close and reserved, never by any chance shewing him the letters he receives or the minutes of those which he writes home; nor do they confer on business as he (Merino) might wish, for up to this day he has only been once to visit him, and that was at night and in disguise. Does not say this in tone of complaint, but only by way of warning and for the Emperor's information, since in his opinion this sort of behaviour cannot be otherwise than prejudicial to the Emperor's service. Another one in his place would most likely ask for his "congé;" he will do no such thing but will execute with clean breast and as far as his abilities permit him the Emperor's commands and instructions. Begs him [the High Commander] not to make use of this information unless it be for His Majesty's service. As to him whatever the Count may do or say he is not in the least offended; the Count is a perfect gentleman, and he (Merino) is ready to serve and honour him in such a manner as to deserve his good-will; indeed he has at times sent his secretary to him to consult about certain affairs, and especially those relating to the Duchess, &c. Begs again that the substance of this letter be only communicated to Mr. de Granvele (Perrenot de Granvelle) that both advise him as to the conduct he is to pursue in future. That will be his rule, and he will not have to trouble them any more on the subject for whatever they decide will be done. When at Milan he (Merino) saw the chapter of his instructions which has reference to the count of Cifuentes, and his relations with him; he saw immediately how matters stood and told Idiaquez so. | |
| As to the approaching interview he (Merino) has done everything he could to prevent it, by speaking to His Holiness or to his ministers. Hitherto he has obtained their delaying until September next, and this very day hope has been given to him that the interview may perhaps not take place at all. | |
| (Common writing:) All that is written in cipher is only intended for His Lordship's (Covos') private reading; after communicating such a portion of it as may seem advisable to Mr. de Granvelle the letter itself had better be thrown into the fire. | |
| Recommends Miçer Juan Reina, who has hitherto done much service, also licte Giluz, (fn. n8) the Emperor's chaplain, who during this journey has been most useful.—Rome, 21st May 1533. | |
| P.D.—I receive this very moment notice that His Holiness is about to send to Nice one of his chamberlains called [Giovanni] (fn. n9) della Stuffa, about the interview. | |
| Signed: "G[abriel] Cardlis Giennen[sis]." | |
| Addressed: "To His Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty." | |
| Spanish. Original partly in cipher. Deciphering on separate sheet. pp. 7. | |
| 22 May. | 1075. The Same to the Emperor. |
| S. E. L. 860, f. 237. B.M. Add. 28,585, f. 257. |
Until to-day, Ascension Day, I have been unable to leave the house owing to fever and gout, which troubled me much. After mass I remained to dinner with His Holiness that I might have an opportunity to converse with him on various matters, and especially on the intended interview and the English business. After dinner for two or three hours past and future events were discussed at length. With regard to the English matrimonial cause, fancying that His Holiness might be waiting for Your Majesty's answer, I begged him to consider the matter, for it was in my opinion the most scandalous and ugly act that had been committed in our days, not one of the heresies recently started could be compared with it for enormity. His Holiness spoke about one divorce, but it seemed to me as if the king of England were guilty of two divorces, for in the first place he has repudiated the Church of God, and then he has separated himself from his Queen, with whom he has lived so many years, &c. With regard to his first divorce, that is that from the Church, it was His Holiness' duty suitably to visit such an abominable case (en caso tan nefando), and as to the second, there were the same reasons for so acting. The delay which was being granted was, in my opinion, very injurious to the conscience and authority of His Holiness and of the Sacred College of Cardinals, because silence or dissimulation might afford people in and out of England cause to doubt whether there is not some shade of justice in what the King has done. |
| Having pressed him hard on these points, the Pope suddenly turned to me, and said: "What would you, Merino, do if you were in my place?" My answer, with all due reverence, was thus worded: "Were I the Vicar of Christ on Earth I would first of all fix my eyes on God, and after mature deliberation with my cardinals and lawyers would write a 'declaratoria' reproving and annulling whatever has been done in this affair, and commanding the King to separate from his second wife; (fn. n10) I would besides order the principal cause now pending in the Rota to be proceeded with 'ad ulteriorem' and without further delay. | |
| Convinced by these and other powerful arguments, which I failed not to put before him as forcibly as I could, His Holiness said at last: "I am of your opinion; I will without loss of time cause the cardinals to discuss this affair, and tell me how I am to act." I have since informed the Count of the Pope's determination, and he has promised to speak to the cardinals. | |
| With regard to the interview (vistus), as I do not know yet what Your Majesty's wishes may be, I have carefully abstained from saying anything in your name; but I failed not to represent to His Holiness, as from myself, the many dangers and inconveniences that might arise therefrom I told him to consider the state of things in Italy. The country enjoyed perfect peace; he himself was free from the nuisance of so many armies continually wasting the substance of the inhabitants. Such conditions might perchance be altered in consequence of his interview with the king of France, and then people might with reason call him the cause of all their evils and misfortunes. I depicted to him the state of Florence, which I had lately visited, and told him how, thanks to Your Majesty, things were there getting better, and the possession of that Duchy was likely to remain in his family. Schism might be produced therein in consequence of the interview, the more so if the marriage between his niece, Catarina, and the Orleans was effected. | |
| I also replied to the four or five things which he says the king of France offers to bring about at these conferences, and proved to him that even if he had the will, which to me was very doubtful, he certainly had not the power to effect them. Our conversation upon the whole was very long. Not to trouble Your Majesty I omit many things said on both sides, His Holiness naturally trying to persuade me that the proposed interview would be equally beneficial to him and to Your Imperial Majesty. From which I gather that His Holiness is entirely bent upon this journey. Your Majesty will tell us how to act. | |
| As the succour to be sent to Coron was a thing of great importance and suffered no delay, I failed not at this, which may be called my first interview with His Holiness, to bring the subject before him. He assured me that whenever Your Majesty decided to send thither Doria's galleys, or those of Sicily, Naples, and Monaco, he (the Pope) would order his to join the expedition, and would besides do what he could towards procuring provisions and money.—Rome, 22nd May 1533. | |
| Signed: "G[abriel] Cardlis Giennen[sis]." | |
| Addressed: "To His Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty." | |
| Spanish. Original. pp. 3. | |