Spain
June 1534, 16-30

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Institute of Historical Research

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Pascual de Gayangos (editor)

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1886

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192-200

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'Spain: June 1534, 16-30', Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 5 Part 1: 1534-1535 (1886), pp. 192-200. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=87899 Date accessed: 26 July 2014.


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June 1534, 16-30

17 June.66. Count de Cifuentes to the Emperor.
S. E., L. 862,
ff. 35–6.
B. M. Add. 28,586,
L. 289.
Wrote on the 7th ult. Will now answer the Emperor's letter of the 27th.
Micer Stephano de la Insula has arrived here with the memorandum and instructions which the officer of Besançon gave him. Great difficulties for the conclusion of the proposed Swiss league. That the seven Catholic cantons should join it seems to Stephano an impracticable thing; and to make it only of three or four cantons, seems a dangerous experiment altogether, as it would offend the rest. There are various opinions on this point, but the most prevailing is that in order to give time to maintain the Catholic cantons of Switzerland in the Emperor's and the Pope's obedience for the conclusion of the league, it is requisite that a subvention of 1,000 florins or ducats a year be granted to them, to be divided among the chief inhabitants. This would he very beneficial to the Emperor on many grounds, and principally because king Francis could not then enlist men in those cantons. Has written to Antonio de Leyva and to the Prothonotary (Caracuolo) about this, that they may also take the opinion of the duke of Milan, and let him (Sylva) know the result.
He (Sylva) wrote last to His Majesty, informing him of what had occurred when he spoke to His Holiness about sending two persons to England,—one from hence, another from Spain,—that they might work in the interests of peace, and exhort the King of that country to return to the obedience of the Holy See; also what was His Holiness's answer on the occasion. Has since spoken with all those cardinals who seem best acquainted with the matter; all having been of opinion that though the step recommended would most likely be of no avail, yet nothing would be lost by His Majesty and His Holiness sending such persons to England. His Holiness himself told him (Sylva) so a day or two after, and again last week. Indeed, whilst speaking to him of other affairs, His Holiness said very warmly, and without his having broached the subject, "I have considered what you (Sylva) told me the other day respecting that paragraph of your instructions which has reference to the Emperor and to myself, and likewise to the future conferences of the kings of France and England." These are the very precise words he used before on two different occasions. His (Sylva's) answer was that it did not seem to him a fit thing for them to send a person to the interview, because, as stated in one of his former despatches, nothing was likely to be treated at the conference tending to promote the welfare of Christendom. To which His Holiness replied in a rather cool manner (tibiamente) that he intended sending a trusty person to England to that effect. If he does, he (Sylva) imagines that it will certainly not be in company with the Emperor's man, as proposed, but separately, as if the Nuncio came directly from himself. At least there can be no doubt that such is his intention, for some days ago he said so to one of his chamberlains, who came and reported it at the embassy.
With regard to the executory letters (executoriales), the Pope said that there was no actual need of taking them out, but merely of invoking the assistance of the secular arm. He (Sylva) answered that there was no occasion to innovate in an affair of that sort, but to let things go on in their usual and regular way according to justice, because, should it be otherwise, it might appear as if a derogation from the old custom was intended. The Pope ended by saying that he would see to the expedition of the "executoriales." He (Sylva) will look to it in accordance with His Majesty's orders and instructions, though it must be said that Simonetta's actual indisposition—he is suffering from an attack of the gout— may still prove an obstacle to the speedy termination of this affair.
Was also told by His Holiness that the ambassador of the duke of Savoy, who resides here at Rome, had requested him to interfere in the quarrel between his master and the king of France, and that he (the Pope) had answered that he would most willingly mediate in it, provided he spoke with him (Sylva) first, for he disliked very much having to meddle in that affair without the knowledge of the Imperial ambassador. Was rather astonished to hear this admission from His Holiness' lips, inasmuch as, having had lately frequent occasion of conversing with the Duke's ambassador, he had never mentioned the subject before. His (Sylva's) answer was that His Majesty had not written on the subject, nor was he aware that the duke Carlo had communicated with His Majesty's ministers, but he was pretty sure, however, that whatever was intended for the preservation of the Duke's estate, as well as that of any other prince or potentate in Italy, would be highly approved of at the Imperial court.
After that, touching on the attempt made by the landgrave [of Hesse], with the help of France and England, to disturb the peace of Germany, having inveighed in the strongest terms against that Prince's behaviour to the Holy Apostolic See, to His Majesty and the king of the Romans, his brother, he (Sylva) seized the opportunity of asking His Holiness for his aid and assistance, as did also Gabriel Sanchez, residing here for the king of the Romans; and not only did His Holiness promise at the time to do everything in his power, but he has since held two consistories, at which the matter has been brought forward and discussed. The Cardinals' resolution has been to grant help, though they say it will be very difficult, for the expense is great, and money very scanty. In such terms he hears, has the King's letter been answered.
The matter of the General Council was also discussed at the above two consistories. Though the Pope himself brought the motion forward honestly and straightforwardly (con honestas palabras), it was easy to perceive how much concerned he is about it. The Pope himself has not declared what resolution was taken at the meeting, but he (Sylva) hears from one of the cardinals there present, that it came to this: The Christian Princes not agreeing as to the expediency of the General Council being convoked and assembled, except with the consent of all parties, the dissidents would inevitably have another one assembled,— which might cause a schism in the Church. It was therefore resolved to acquaint His Majesty with that difficulty, for him to decide what had better be done. His Holiness' illness, which, as hinted in a former despatch, (fn. 1) was entirely caused by this motion respecting the Council being brought forward, is no doubt the cause of the above resolution not having yet been communicated to him (Sylva). As soon as he recovers, he will not fail to call on him again, and represent how much bound he is to remedy matters of Faith, and not prevent the meeting of a national (general?) Council such as His Majesty wishes.
Has been told of some one having said to His Holiness that upon king Francis asking the landgrave [of Hesse], when in France, what he thought about the General Council, the latter answered that no German Prince wished for it. This, however, seems to be one of the many French tricks to persuade His Holiness that general opinion in Germany is actually in favour of the Landgrave and of his adherents.
Did not fail to ask, as instructed, in the Emperor's name, for a Cardinal's hat for the archbishop of Capua (Schomberg), though with the express understanding that his appointment was not to be made an excuse for a new creation. Knows that His Holiness has since complained most bitterly of it, saying that it was tantamount to tying his hands, and preventing the use of his prerogative. Has not yet spoken to him on the subject, and offered due satisfaction, because the person who brought the information particularly begged him (Sylva) not to say a word about it. Intends, however, in the course of time speaking to him on the subject, and showing what small ground of complaint he has of His Majesty on that score. Really believes that the cause of the Pope's displeasure is no other than his being at this present moment meditating the creation of no less than seven or eight cardinals, for the purpose, as they say, of increasing the party of his nephew, and promoting his elevation to the Papacy. The report is that some days ago the latter was heard to say that he really meant to take orders and remain attached to the Church. That is the reason why it is generally believed here that Verona, Capua, Forli, Faença, Sipontino, Gambara, the "Maestro di Casa," and perhaps one or two more, will be promoted. And although the general belief, as above stated, is that such creation of cardinals is intended for gaining votes for Ippolitos' future election, he (Sylva) cannot help thinking that his principal motive for acting thus is the Emperor's insistence on the Council being held. Will try and do what His Majesty commands in this particular. Will again speak to the Pope and to the cardinals, if necessary, but is almost sure that all his remonstrances will be of no avail; for he hears that His Holiness has lately said in a very decisive manner that he is quite determined this new creation, not having hitherto, as he says, created any cardinals except at the special recommendation and request of princes; also because the cardinals themselves are disgusted, and without hope of obtaining favours from His Majesty. As this, moreover, is considered a sort of offence against the Pope, the majority, whatever he (Sylva) may say to them, will not follow his advice.
Spanish bishoprics. Cardinal La Valle. Rome, 17 June 1534.
Spanish. Original. pp. 11.
19 June.67. The Cardinal of Jaen to the High Commander.
S. E. Roma, L. 861,
f. 46.
B. M. Add. 28,586,
f. 295.
We are anxiously expecting to hear how the Emperor has taken those last movements, (fn. 2) and what has happened lately in Germany; the friendships and alliances that are being made, and what remedy the Emperor intends in each particular case; because many here seem to think that were His Imperial Majesty to treat with the Princes and Free Cities of Germany, they might at last be persuaded to join him and the king of the Romans. All, indeed, seem to think that any work done in that quarter would be beneficial towards dissipating the many clouds that obscure the horizon. They are right; because, as I have frequently informed your Lordship and the Emperor, our opponents put much stress upon that, and profit by the opportunity and the mention of the Council wherever they can. (fn. 3)
Things here are as usual; that is, they go on worse and worse, will and taste changing every day. I am very sorry to see it, considering the great harm and inconvenience that may thereby result to Christendom, whose preservation depends upon the union of these two princes. (fn. 4) I humbly entreat your Lordship to cause all possible mildness to be used in the negociation with the Pope, for affairs are not in such a sad state that they cannot be still retrieved with good handling and certain diplomacy, &c. (fn. 5) —Rome, 19 June 1534.
P.S. — Since the above was written Giovan Battista Castaldo has told me that, although the Emperor once promised him the county of Ogento, (fn. 6) he would now be contented with what remains of it. Castaldo is a very faithful servant of the Emperor, and well deserves reward.
This post could not carry the two small cushions (coxinetes). He only takes one for your Lordship; the other for Mr. de Grandvelle will go by the next courier.
Signed: "G[abrielis] Card[inalis] Gienn[ensis]."
Spanish Original. pp. 3.
23 June.68. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
Wien. Rep. P.C.,
Fasc. 228, No. 44.
About eight days ago two ships, well manned, came into this river, having on board the ambassadors from Lubeck and Hamburg in equal number; that is to say, three deputies and eighteen servants for each city. Those of Lubeck are handsomely dressed in red cloth with bands of yellow and white satin, with an inscription on the sleeve. Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos. The Hamburghers are more modestly dressed, in black, with the following device: Da pacem, domine, in diebus nostris. They have not yet had audience of the King. Whether the delay is caused by the King expecting the return of the doctor lately sent to Lubeck, who is coming here by a land-route, in order, as some think, to talk to the people of Bremen and other confederated towns, I cannot say; certain it is that up to the present they have not seen the King. The cause of their coming here remains still a mystery. I am told, however, that this King has asked them with importunity to come to London, assuring them that it will be to their profit. It is even surmised that, among other things, the King wishes to make a treaty of commerce with them in the event of the ports and markets in Your Majesty's dominions being closed against his subjects, which measure these people suspect and dread above all things. By these means the King intends to attach the confederated towns to his interests, strengthen himself with their alliance and help, and perhaps, also detach them from Your Majesty's devotion. Even if the arrival of these men had no other effect than that of persuading his own subjects that he has secret intelligences in Germany and other foreign lands, the King, who knows very well the way of conciliating his people, is not likely to omit this opportunity of increasing his reputation. It may also be that the King has expressly sent for them to render the people of Flanders jealous of the Lubeckians and Hamburghers, as well as fearful of losing their trade with this country, and thereby compel them to disobey Your Majesty's commands in case the intercourse of trade shall be suspended; a thing which, the King maintains, the merchants of Flanders will never consent to, since they are opposed to it. I really believe that the Lubeckians may come to some agreement respecting Danemark. As to the Hamburghers, I am told that they at first made difficulties about coming, and, according to a friend of mine who visits them almost daily, they intend, as soon as their business here is dispatched, to go over to Flanders, and present themselves to the Queen [of Hungary].
Although since the eve of Pentecost I have not ceased applying for an answer to the communications I made to the King's Privy Council, as well as asking for permission to see the Queen—which she urges almost every day—up to this hour I have not received an answer to my application. Master Cromwell some days ago observed to my secretary, whom I sent for the purpose, that he considered my petition quite reasonable, but that the ladies were not to be believed implicitely. (fn. 7)
Since then he has sent me word that he would call on me that we might talk the matter over; but he has evidently forgotten his promise and all the rest. Having subsequently reminded him of his promise by my said secretary, he has answered that the duke of Norfolk and he wished to speak to me about the business in question, as well as about a letter which the King, their master, had lately received from Spain. Yesterday was the day fixed for the conference, but, owing to certain engagements, they have sent me word to have patience and wait two or three days more. These dilatory expedients have had the effect of keeping the Queen in a state of anxiety; for the King has in the meantime deputed certain clerks to exact the oath from the ladies of her household, and in case of refusal to bring all of them prisoners to London. This order of the King the commissioners would have executed at once, had they not been deterred by the difficulty of causing so many ladies to come to this capital against their will and by force, besides the pity and commiseration which they must have felt at leaving the Queen alone and without servants, besides her own entreaties not to proceed further without informing the King first of the state of things. The commissioners arrived in town yesterday, but I cannot guess what orders they will receive next.
Upwards of ten months ago I had sent to the Queen a protest for her daughter, the Princess, to sign. This I had reason to believe had been complied with, otherwise I should have taken measures to that effect. Finding, however, that it was out of her power to obtain her daughter's signature, the Queen sent it back to me some time ago, and I have at last succeeded in making her sign the document, as Your Majesty will see. No words of mine can express the industrious and clever means which that angelical and peerless Princess has employed to get the said protest into my hands, and distract the attention of the guards by whom she is surrounded.
A gentleman worthy of credit has this day sent me word that the Queen's mistress has said more than once, and with great assurance, that the very moment the King crosses over [to France] to hold his interview with king Francis, and she remains governess of the kingdom, she will certainly cause the death of the said Princess by the sword or otherwise. And upon Rochefort, her brother, saying that by doing so she might offend the King, she answered him that she cared not if she did, even if she were to be burnt or flayed alive m consequence. The Princess knows very well the good intentions of that lady; but thinking that such a death is the best way of gaming Paradise, is nowise concerned at such threats, placing her trust in God, whom she has served so well at all times, and now serves better than ever. After speaking to her on the subject, whenever the permission be granted, I shall not fail to follow her advice, and address my remonstrances to the King Whether these will be of use or not is more than I can say at present.
I humbly beg Your Majesty to pardon me if I repeat things of which I have already written, but the importunities of several worthy personages inclined to the welfare and service of Your Majesty prompts me to it. Unless Your Imperial Majesty at once looks to the affairs of this country, all hope of remedy will vanish for ever, owing to this [Lutheran] sect, which is beginning to spread, and which, as the King thinks, will not only be a stimulant for his subjects to resist Your Majesty's attacks, but will likewise conciliate for him, the favour of Germany, and principally of the maritime towns, such as Lubeck and others. Whilst the King himself has nothing grave on his hands, he will be able to get from his subjects, by fair means or foul, anything he wishes, as he is doing daily, and at the same time raise discontent both in Germany and France against Your Majesty. Even if Your Majesty showed satisfaction at his past conduct, I have no doubt he will go on all the same with his intrigues in the hope of annoying Your Majesty, and because he fears that in the end he will get what he so richly deserves. Indeed, these people fancy that the true bridle to curb both the French and the Germans, and prevent them from kicking, would be to take measures here in this country. By such means did the Emperor Maximilian defeat his two competitors, as described in the chronicles of England. (fn. 8) This would be now-days, in the present state of affairs, the easiest thing to accomplish; for all the people, great and small, are only waiting for an opportunity, however trifling, to declare in favour of Your Imperial Majesty and of the Queen and Princess, of whose life certain fears are to be entertained unless a prompt remedy be immediately applied. Your Majesty cannot imagine the hundredth part of the almost universal annoyance caused in this realm by such delays, nor the reproaches daily addressed to me by all parties, except those of the new sect. I have not hesitated to inform Your Majesty of these facts lest you should think that the compulsory oath of the statutes has changed in the least the affection of the English.
The archbishop of Canterbury having reserved to himself the declaration, definition, and determination which he proposes making in a year's time, of certain questions, i.e., whether there be purgatory or not; whether it be proper to pray to, and worship saints; whether it be allowable for the priests to marry; and whether pilgrimages to shrines and churches are to be considered as meritorious works, has prohibited and forbidden by public and express commands that any preacher should be bold or imprudent enough to inveigh against the said articles. All of which, if I am not mistaken, are only preparatory steps to facilitate the work of next Parliament, thus promoting a schism in the Church for the King's own particular designs; that is, to dispossess the churches of England of their own,—a work which he has not yet commenced, for fear of mixing up together such and so many scandalous matters.—London, 23 June mdxxxiiii.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
French. Original. pp. 6.
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England, 23 June and 7 July. Received on the 3rd of August at Palencia."
27 June.69. The Cardinal of Jaen to the High Commander.
S. E. Roma, L. 861,
f. 46.
B. M. Add. 28,586,
f. 307.
(Cipher:) I may appear importune, troublesome, and even suspicious in so often writing about the same thing, but the time will come when I shall be excused for having done so, I have said many a time, and I repeat it again, that it behoves us to treat His Holiness with greater consideration and regard than we are now doing, and not show so much suspicion of him, because if he (the Pope) ever becomes afraid of losing the Emperor's confidence, he is sure to lean on France. And, inasmuch as I perceive that the Imperial ambassador rather mistrusts the Pope, I am afraid that the reports the Count (Sylva) makes to Spain may one of these days provoke measures highly unfit for the present times. My opinion is that, though the Pope may have made promises or taken engagements with our opponents, still he will not declare openly against the Emperor, and that if he be temporized with, and treated considerately and with fair words, he may yet repent and be a good friend. (fn. 9) This is supposing that he (the Pope) has done wrong; for if he has not, our treatment of him ought to be one of implicit trust, for there would be then no earthly excuse for our dealing with him otherwise. It is not for me to determine what our treatment in the negociation ought to be; but I do not hesitate to say that, under present circumstances, great expansion (soltura) ought to be used, and that we ought to aim at gaining what we can of him, in time, as well as in money and favour, and that it would be proper, and even necessary, to send here some person who might show him greater confidence. The person appointed might be useful in other matters, though, if you wish to conduct yourselves with purity and simplicity as in time of peace, I fancy that such a person will not succeed. However, in these matters I refer entirely to the Emperor's wisdom and prudence, your own, and that of the other members of the Privy Council. (fn. 10) —Rome, 27 June 1534.
Indorsed: "Deciphering of letter from the cardinal of Jaen to the High Commander."
Spanish. Original in cipher. pp. 2.

Footnotes

1 That of the 6th. See No. 64, p. 188.
2 "Esperando como ha tomado Su Magd estos motiuos, y lo que en Alemania agora ha sucedido."
3 "Los adversarios nuestros hazen mucho fundamento en esta cosa, y se valen de esta occassion y nombre adonde pueden."
4 "Pues en la union de estos dos principes (?) consiste la conservacion de ella."
5 "Suplico a V. S. que no dexe de procurar por su parte que se ponga toda la miel y dulzura que possible sea, pues no está el negocio en terminos que con buenos modos y maña no se pueda acá y allá tornar al ristre y reduzirlo al termino que conviene."
6 Ussento in the Terra d'Otranto (Naples).
7 "Maistre Cromuel donna entendre il y quelques iours a mon home que ce que demandoye estoit tres honeste, mais [que] les dames [n]estoint de croyre (sic)."
8 "Et oyres que vostre majeste monstrat estre contente de tout ce quil a fait si croi ie quil ne cesseroit a fere toutes les susdites menees tant pour quelque enuye que doubtant tousiours que a la fin il auroit le gueridon quil merite; et semble a ces gens que la vraye bride pour arrester la france et lallemaigne et les garder de ruer seroit de pourvoir yçi, et par tel moyen lempereur Maximillian supedicta ses deux competiteurs, comme le contiennent les croniques."
9 "Y entreteniendolo con buenos modos podria facilmente arrepentirse y ser buen amigo."
10 "Pero bien oso desir que para todos eventos al presente convernia soltura, y ganar lo que se pueda, assi de tiempo, como approvecharse de su hazienda y favor, y no seria sino bien, y aun necessario embiar persona propia para mostrar de nucvo querer tener mayor confianza. Y este tal haria otros buenos effectos, [porque] sy en estos tiempos quereis governaros con la [misma] puridad y llanura que en tiempo de paz, pienso que no se acertará. Todavia me remito al prudente juizio de Su Magd y de vosotros señores."