Addenda.: Miscellaneous, 1534 | British History Online

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 8, 1545-1546. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1904.

'Addenda.: Miscellaneous, 1534', in Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 8, 1545-1546, (London, 1904) pp. 593-598. British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-state-papers/spain/vol8/pp593-598 [accessed 26 April 2024]

Miscellaneous, 1534



1534. 23 Jan. Simanoas. E. R. 860	450. Count Cifuentes to Cobos.
	Aponte arrived. Not his fault that he was somewhat later than expected, as the roads are very bad.
	Aponte's credentials are drawn with great skill. The Pope will be obliged either to send aid against the Turk or show his hand. Cifuentes asked the Pope some time ago what secret matter had been settled at the Marseilles interview. His reason for doing so was that he did not wish to appear distrustful, or to show over confidence. Has again, in the presence of Aponte, conveyed to the Pope in the mildest form what the Emperor wrote about the Marseilles interview and the affairs of Germany. The Pope appeared very frightened (medroso), a sure sign that he has concluded something that he wishes not to be known.
	About a month since he pressed the Pope very urgently to give at once his final sentence on the principal point of the divorce case. His Holiness said on that occasion that last year at Belvedere Rodrigo Davalos told him that the Emperor declared that he would bind himself to execute the final sentence as soon as the Pope pronounced it, and his Holiness asked Cifuentes if he was authorised to make such a pledge for the Emperor. Cifuentes has refrained hitherto from mentioning this point, as he did not wish to injure Davalos. Even now he has not mentioned the matter in his letters to the Emperor, and leaves to the discretion of Cobos whether or not Davalos' blunder shall be communicated to his Majesty.
	Cifuentes told the Pope that he was not authorised to make the declaration referred to, and that Rodrigo Davalos could not have been instructed to say what he had done, as he had been strictly enjoined in his credentials to make no declaration or pledge of any sort without the knowledge and consent of Cifuentes. The latter repeated to the Pope what he had told him so often; namely that the Emperor would do his duty, but that his Majesty would bind himself to nothing explicitly before he had seen the sentence itself. The Cardinal of Santa Croce and the Archbishop of Capua also told Cifuentes that they had heard the Pope declare that Davalos had made the promise referred to in the name of the Emperor.
	Rome, 23 January, 1534.
4 March. Simancas. E. V. 1561.	451. The Emperor to Count Cifuentes. (Extracts.)
	The King of the Romans has written saying that the negotiations carried on at the Marseilles interview were wholly directed against the Emperor's and the King of the Romans' interests.
	Notes Cifuentes' information with regard to the Queen of England's case, and approves of his answer to the Pope's question as to what the Emperor would do in order to carry the final sentence into effect when it was pronounced. He can make no further declaration than that already made on this point, and the Pope must have confidence in him. The Emperor likewise approves of what Cifuentes said when the Pope proposed to nominate a person to defend the interests of the King of England in the divorce proceedings in Rome, and considers that the steps taken by Cifuentes to obtain a delivery of the final sentence on the main case without further delay have been judicious. As, notwithstanding the decision of the Pope not to appoint any person to represent the King of England's interests in the suit, the Consistory has resolved that the whole proceedings in the case are to be recited again, there is nothing for it but to submit, but Cifuentes must continue to urge most forcibly that a speedy decision on the main point shall be arrived at. Cifuentes did quite right in these circumstances to refrain from bringing up the executorial decrees that were sent to him from Flanders. In order to convince the Pope and the Cardinals how necessary it is that the affair shall be brought to a prompt conclusion nothing will be more efficacious than to point out to them the indignities to which the Queen is being subjected. Enclosed is the copy of a declaration made by the King of England's Privy Council in contempt of the authority of the Pope and the Church. Let this be seen in Rome. Toledo, 4 March, 1534.
N. D. June (?) Simancas. T. e I. 4.	452. Count Cifuentes to the Emperor.
	After the sentence in the divorce case of the Queen of England was pronounced, declaring the marriage of the King of England with her perfectly lawful and valid, communications were held with the learned doctors engaged in the case with regard to the minatory clause which should be added to the letters of execution. The authorities were of opinion that the King of England should be ordered to obey the sentence sub pena of being deprived of his Kingdom if he is contumacious. This opinion seems only right and just. There is, however, one circumstance to be considered, which may raise some doubt. The Pope claims that the realm of England is a feud of the Church, and that the Pontiff possesses the right, conceded by former Kings, of investiture. Many learned doctors share this opinion. It is furthermore alleged that the King of England by acts he has already committed to the prejudice of the Holy See is, in fact, at present schismatic and heretical, and that the Pope has the right to confiscate and dispose of the Kingdom of England as an ecclesiastical fief, the Princess being incapacitated from succeeding by reason of the heresy of her father.
	Cifuentes has doubted the advisability of demanding that the King of England should be deprived of his Kingdom as stated. If the King were declared to have forfeited his realm, as a consequence merely of his contumacy in regard of the sentence in the suit, the Princess would not thereby be deprived, especially if it were stated in the executorial decree that the confiscation of the King's right to the Kingdom was to be executed in favour of the Princess. If that were done no dispute could arise afterwards on the question of whether the feud reverted to the Church in prejudice to the rights of the Princess or not. It is not, however, sure if the Pope and the Cardinals would insert such a clause in the decree, and Cifuentes has thought best to say nothing at present about the forfeiture of the Kingdom. He awaits the Emperor's instructions on the subject. (fn. 1)
	It has also been considered that if the forfeiture of the realm in favour of the Princess were demanded the King would be greatly irritated, and both the Queen and the Princess would be placed in great peril for their lives. Cifuentes begs for instructions as to his action, in the case of the realm of England being declared forfeited to the Holy See. (In a marginal note Cobos says that this is not yet needed. Cifuentes must first ask for the executorial decrees to be issued.) In the meanwhile Cifuentes, in order to lose no time, has asked for the decrees to be issued in the usual form. If necessary the forfeiture clause may be asked for later, if the Emperor so orders.
	We have already the executorial decrees that were issued in consequence of the former attempted proceedings (i. e. those before the Archbishop of Canterbury) and on these decrees the aid of secular force might be invoked, as well as on the decrees that are now to be granted. It was therefore discussed whether it would be advisable to proceed on the former decrees or wait for the latter to be issued as a consequence of the judgment on the main point in the case; or whether it would be better to proceed jointly in virtue of both decrees. The reason for this discussion was that, before the later executorial decrees can be issued, promulgated, and reproduced with the usual formalities, the secular force invokable under the first decree might be collected and organised, this decree being directed to the Emperor, Kings, Princes, Barons, etc. ordering them to seize the person and property of the King of England pending his submission. (fn. 2)
	In order that the interdict placed upon England may not deprive the country of commerce with other nations, it has been debated if it would not be well to ask the Pope to order all Englishmen on pain of excommunication to respect the said interdict, and that they should regard the Queen as their Queen instead of Anne. It is true that it is impossible to excommunicate a whole people, but all English persons who do not obey may be excommunicated for disobeying the Pope's commands, and this will come to the same thing. It is not yet known whether his Holiness will consent to pronounce the general excommunication when he sees that his commands are not obeyed. (fn. 3) After the sentence had been pronounced, the Archbishop of Paris (fn. 4) came to Rome for the purpose of forwarding the interests of the King of England; alleging that he was duly accredited by the King. He said that his instructions enjoined him to give full credit to what the French ambassador in England might write to him. The ambassador, he said, had written to him to the effect that he had in his possession a paper signed by the King of England, in which he professes his willingness to obey the sentence with regard to his proceedings, (fn. 5) but that he wished his case to be decided in a place other than Rome. A copy of this paper was sent to the Archbishop of Paris; and in full Consistory, at which the Pope was present, it was resolved that the sentence already pronounced could not be revoked, as the Queen had acquired rights by it. This is the present condition of the business. (Marginal note by Cobos: This is good. He must do his best and see that the sentence be not annulled, as he says it was decided in the Consistory.)
1 May. Simancas. E. V. 1563.	453. The Emperor to Count Cifuentes. (Extracts.)
	Has ordered the collector of the Pope to be spoken to about the English affair, and enclosed a memorandum of the discourse with him. The Emperor thanked his Holiness for all he had done in the case, and, since the Emperor has been directly asked to state what steps he intended to take for the purpose of carrying the sentence into effect, he answered that he would not be found remiss in performing his duty in this particular, as he had already explained by letter to his ambassador. The Emperor begged that his Holiness would not omit to do all that strict justice demanded from fear that his sentences would not be enforced. Has written more fully on this subject in the despatches taken by Tello de Guzman.
	Cifuentes' letter of 2nd instant now to hand.
	There is nothing to add with regard to the Queen of England's case. The answer given to the Archbishop of Paris was good, when the latter told Cifuentes that he had not come to oppose the just cause of the Queen of England, but only to explain how matters stood in England. Approves also of what Cifuentes said when he was told by the Pope and Cardinals that the King of France is by. no means pleased with what the King of England has done, and that he (Francis) still hopes to be able to persuade him (Henry) to again recognise the authority of the Pope. He notes without further comment the answer given by Cifuentes to the Archbishop of Paris when the latter said that the promulgation of the sentence seemed to him very inopportune at the present time, as the King of England was willing to revoke his late action and become once more an obedient son of the Church, if his matrimonial suit were heard at Cambrai. All these suggestions are merely for the purpose of delaying the Queen's case. If any arrangement of this sort was to have been brought forward, it should have been done at the Marseilles interview.
	As Cifuentes considers it necessary to make presents to those who have the management of the business, and he has discounted bills for 2,500 ducats for this purpose, his bills shall be duly met when presented. The Emperor doubts not that the money will be distributed in a way that will produce the greatest amount of good. The memorandum drawn up by the learned doctors who are acting for the Queen will be carefully considered. The manner of proceeding proposed by them has been approved of, as will be seen by the marginal notes against each clause. These notes are to be kept secret, and not even the lawyers must see them. The due accomplishment of the Emperor's plans will be greatly aided by secrecy.
	Notes that the Pope told Cifuentes that the King of France intended to marry his eldest daughter to the King of Scots (fn. 6); and that the King of England, as soon as he learned of the project, brought forward a plan to marry his own daughter (Princess Mary) to the King of Scots, promising in such event to pay a great sum of money and to return to Scotland certain territories he had conquered from him; on condition, however, that the Princess was to renounce her claims to the English throne. Cifuentes had replied that this seemed a very improbable story, as the King of England would not dare to marry his daughter in Scotland even though she did renounce her English inheritance. This answer was judicious.
	Toledo, 1 May, 1584.
27 July. Simancas. E. V. 1561.	454. The Emperor to Count Cifuentes.
	Notes the intention of the Pope to send a person to the King of England for the purpose of endeavouring once more to persuade him to do his duty and to obey the sentence that has been delivered. After all the efforts that have been made to dissuade the Pope from this course, there is nothing more to be said about it.
	The Emperor is decidedly of opinion that, at all events, it would be unbecoming for the Pope to fulfil his expressed intention of sending an ambassador to be present at the meeting between the Kings of France and England, as most certainly nothing of benefit for Christendom will be discussed at such a meeting. But if his Holiness persists in his intention of sending an ambassador, Cifuentes must urge upon him to give special instructions to his envoy to oppose and contradict everything that may be proposed prejudicial to the Queen of England. The very least that the Emperor expects of the Pope is that he will not be a party to any such attempts. The Emperor does not yet know whether his ambassador to England will be present at the meeting. On the occasion of the last meeting between the Kings, the King of England objected to his presence; but if the Imperial ambassadors to France and England are to attend, due instructions will be sent to them on no account to countenance any negotiations that may injure the Queen's rights. Begs the Pope to instruct his envoy to follow the lead of the Imperial ambassadors if these be present at the interview.
	The measures taken by Cifuentes with regard to the despatch of the executorial decrees are approved of. He is to follow his instructions closely. The Pope must be made to see that his prestige is deeply concerned in the prompt execution, whilst, on the other hand, it will be convenient for some time to elapse before the decrees are delivered to the Emperor, in order that the latter may be the better able to consider the steps to be taken.
	Palencia, 27 July, 1534.
16 Aug. Simancas. E. V. 1561.	455. The Emperor to Count Cifuentes. (Extracts.)
	Conversation of Cifuentes with Carnisera about Kings of France and England and the Voyvode, Cifuentes' reply to Carnisera's question, as to whether the Emperor would give his niece, the daughter of the King of Denmark, in marriage to the King of Scots was excellent. (fn. 7) If Carnisera repeats the question, the same answer must be given, namely that Cifuentes is ignorant of the Emperor's wishes on the subject. The Emperor desires to know all that can be learnt about this.
	Cifuentes' account of his conversation with the Pope is carefully noted, the subject being a reconciliation between the Emperor and the King of France in opposition to the King of England. The Pope said that the King of France would be very willing to join the Emperor in some enterprise against England, but that he fears the Emperor would betray the negotiations to King Henry, enter into a close alliance with him and abandon the friendship of France. Cifuentes did well in not entering into details on this point, but simply observed that it was not the Emperor's custom to break his word and betray his friends. Cifuentes is to try all he can to discover from the Pope the particulars of this suggestion, and write very fully about it to the Emperor.
	Cifuentes is not to make any opposition to the Pope with respect to the sending of a person to England for the purpose of exhorting the King to submit to the sentence.
	Palencia, 16 August, 1534.