Venice
October 1625, 18 - 31

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Institute of Historical Research

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Allen B. Hinds (editor)

Year published

1913

Pages

186-195

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'Venice: October 1625, 18 - 31', Calendar of State Papers Relating to English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 19: 1625-1626 (1913), pp. 186-195. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=89047 Date accessed: 01 October 2014.


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October 1625

Oct. 18.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Costantinopoli.
Venetian
Archives.
271. To the Ambassador in France.
Letters from Constantinople of the 7th ult. advise us that the Caimecan did not give audience to the gentlemen from Naples. The Imperialists and Spaniards declared that the matter was progressing favourably, being actively assisted by the Sultan's mother. Accordingly our Bailo seems doubtful of the result despite the joint offices of himself and the other ambassadors.
To France, England and the States add:
The same letters inform us that Gabor has received permission to unite with the Princes of Christendom friendly to the Porte. Our Bailo remarks that the letter to Gabor makes no mention of the emperor or Spain, but merely states that the door stands open for friends and enemies, apparently alluding to the truce. It bears the date March, although the permission was recently granted. This shows that the Caimecan drew up the letter with the purpose, in case of interception, of protesting that it was written before the negotiations for the truce in Hungary or the arrival of the gentleman for one with Spain.
We send this for information to use on behalf of our joint interests.
Ayes, 62.Noes, 4.Neutral, 9.
[Italian.]
Oct. 18.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
272. To the Ambassador at Rome and the like to the other Courts and to the Proveditori General.
The enemy kept retiring in the Valtelline, while our forces pushed on, occupying Campo and Vercei. Our commanders have decided to fortify their positions, and secure what they have won. Smit's troops and the French have reached the valley. Spanish excuses for retreat.
Spanish difficulties before Verua. Attempt to divide Savoy's forces by move on Crescentino.
On the diet of Hungary. Emperor pressing to send troops to Hungary. Count Collalto gone to help to defend Lorraine if the French attack. Tilly reported about to enter Oldenburg. Attempt of the Viceroy of Naples to force the republic of Genoa to grant to Milan the forces raised for herself.
Ayes, 74.Noes, 0.Neutral, 2.
[Italian.]
Oct. 19.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Costantinopoli.
Venetian
Archives.
273. ZORZI GIUSTINIAN, Venetian Ambassador at Constantinople, to the DOGE and SENATE.
I sent our consul Pesaro at Aleppo the order and letters obtained from the Caimecan in his favour in the dispute with the English, in order to forestall the English ambassador, who is preparing proofs that other nations have always paid the consulage for goods which came on English ships, and the English have done the same for goods coming on the ships of other nations. He even says that the English merchants have paid the cottimo to the Bailo for their goods brought by Venetian ships. He expects to persuade the Caimecan by these proofs. As the Caimecan has declared that he does not want any innovation, I shall have to meet these proofs. Moreover the Dutch ambassador will support the English, as our merchants have hired two Flemish ships here to take a quantity of goods to Aleppo, and he makes similar claims for consulage. Finding that he had sent to his consul at Aleppo, I obtained an insertion in the order of the claims of him and of every one else and sent word to our consul. This has greatly offended the English ambassador, who has been preoccupied with the Caimecan, and has rather dashed his hopes of inducing that official to withdraw the order. But the two Ambassadors may unite to bribe the Caimecan whereas I and the Consul Pesaro have no money and no orders to thwart them. I have told the consul that I will do my utmost but may fail for lack of money as I cannot use your Serenity's. I shall try to avoid a dispute with the two Ambassadors before the Turks and shall endeavour to make the English ambassador see that our consul is in the right. He told our dragoman that he would not apply to the Caimecan before he had conferred with me. If he does I will do my utmost to persuade him, but as his own interests are concerned as well as the entire maintenance and profit of his embassy, I shall find it very difficult.
Achindi, the 19th October, 1625.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Oct. 20.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci.
Savoia.
Venetian
Archives.
274. DOMENICO DOMINICI, Venetian Secretary in Savoy, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The English Ambassador Wake, after a conference with his Highness lasting three hours, in which he told him what he had done among the Grisons and Swiss, sent to ask if he could see the ambassador, or, failing him myself. I went to the house and begged him to excuse the ambassador, who was too ill to see him. He seemed very sorry, and then said he would inform me what he had said to his Highness. He travelled through the Valtelline. The Marquis of Coure was doing nothing; he reproved him as he had a strong force and need not stand on the defensive. The French make liberal promises but do not keep them. By the hopes they raise they induce the most serene republic and the Duke of Savoy to spend. The King of France is young and good, but he lets his ministers rule, and when they are bad the king's goodness does not avail, but rather does harm. He would stop here a few days as he wished to speak with the Constable and see if the help was forthcoming. He thought the republic might do better with Savoy alone.
I listened attentively to what he said, perceiving that he meant to denounce France and arouse mistrust. I remarked generally that the allies should have the same object; war was impossible without some disorder, but prudence could provide for this, and so I took leave of his Excellency.
Turin, the 20th October, 1625.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Oct. 24.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Venetian
Archives.
275. To the Ambassador at the Hague.
Commendation of the news sent in letters of the 16th reporting the alliance concluded between England and the States, especially as they have heard nothing about it from England or anywhere else. Await further details about sharing expenses, the objects of the alliance and so forth. Desire all particulars in order to form a decision. It does not seem necessary now to take steps to prevent the States from listening to proposals for a truce.
Ayes, 99.Noes, 1.Neutral, 4.
[Italian.]
Oct. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
276. To the Ambassador at Rome and the like to the other Courts and to the Proveditori General.
Feria adheres to decision to leave Verua as it is and attack Crescentino. He is spurred by the news of help from France. Delay makes the Duke of Savoy fret, but he has no fears for Verua and can meet Feria's attack. He has sent Prince Tomaso, and his natural son Don Carlo to join the Marquis of Lanz to oppose the Genoese. At the repeated instances of Feria the Viceroy of Naples is hastening on reinforcements.
The league proposes further movements in the Valtelline. No more Swiss have gone to Milan; those returned report bad treatment. A general Council in France has declared for war. They hope to arrange peace with the Huguenots after hunting Soubise away. He is said to have gone to England. The Evangelical Swiss seem to take this news well, and hope the forces of the Most Christian will be free, especially to enter the waters of Genoa to prevent impending evils and help the Duke of Savoy.
We hear that the Princes of the Circle of Lower Saxony united with Denmark are about to make great progress. Meanwhile Tilly has fared badly, the Duke of Weimar and Obentraut having captured his guns and baggage. The Dutch have decided to give Denmark 3,000 foot paid for three months. They have provided Mansfelt with ships to go to Denmark, and an escort of cavalry to take his own to Oldenburg. France and England are also supporting Mansfelt. The States have arranged an offensive and defensive alliance with England.
Ayes, 90.Noes, 0.Neutral, 0.
[Italian.]
Oct. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
277. To the Ambassador in England.
Since we received your letters of the 17th ult. yesterday week we have heard of the conclusion of an alliance between his Majesty and the States. We suppose that your advices are delayed by the closing of the ports. We expect full particulars from you, as we consider the event one of great moment, especially as affecting that king's help to Denmark and Mansfelt, his ambassador at the Hague stating that he had fresh orders on this subject. The French ambassador there seems also to have promised money. We recognise that you have promoted these results, and we direct you to encourage their progress as your prudence may suggest. We sent you word by the ordinary of yesterday of what had happened in the Valtelline up to the 7th inst. We enclose further particulars to use as you see fit, especially the decision of the Most Christian for war. We wish to know how this news is received in England.
We hear from Morosini that the Most Christian's fleet has taken Oleron and driven out Soubise, who has fled to England. We desire news of this and of how Soubise's affairs proceed. Orders from Spain have reached Naples for the dispatch of as many sailing ships as possible to those waters; the Catholic means to have a great fleet ready to resist the attempts of England against him.
We have nothing to add about the funeral incident, as we await the fulfilment of the promises so often reiterated.
Ayes, 90.Noes, 0.Neutral, 0.
[Italian.]
Oct. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
278. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The ambassador extraordinary of the Most Christian has arrived, been welcomed, lodged and defrayed. He has had long interviews, one might say disputes, with his Majesty. He deals chiefly with the points I have reported, although to all appearance the chief object of his expedition is the cause of the Catholics, in order to please the cardinal legate. He has special instructions from the Queen Mother to examine into and settle the queen's dissatisfaction and to remove all shadows that pass between their Majesties. For the interests of the queen's household they do not seem inclined to give complete satisfaction. For the advantage of the Catholics, for whom the ambassador speaks strongly, he obtained little hope.
He did not ask for any innovation, but only a due consideration of the times and requirements. He showed feeling in speaking to the duke and all but threatened, but he gained nothing.
In negotiating about public interests and a closer understanding they encountered the most serious difficulties and suspicions. England persists in claiming a defensive and offensive alliance with France, which that country resolutely declines. But the ambassador offers to assist the common cause without the disturbance of superfluous treaties. But they attach no value to that here, and they imagine that the ambassador has not sufficient instructions or that he desires satisfaction of the private interests first.
With the ambassador came the secretary of the Most Christian ambassador at the Hague, to arrange about Mansfelt's interests, consisting of the troops now in being, of the offers of France of men and money, for which he professes to have letters of exchange, of England's proposals for levies and payment. With the addition of some cavalry paid by the Palatine the whole would make up a force of 14,000 foot and 2,000 horse. But the duke did not want to arrange this unless at the Hague, so the secretary has left for Holland without arranging anything. It is amazing that while they say so much about French help they throw away opportunities of getting it.
The ambassador has sent to France in some dissatisfaction, and the matter now stands that they say here they cannot support Germany without France and they refuse him assistance, which fresh incidents might increase. These mysteries seem unfathomable unless they hope to gain more by the confusion of affairs. Having tried to obtain the Palatinate by negotiations with Spain and by building upon a league with France, both of which have proved vain, they wish to procure the support of Germany with the object of doing everything for the satisfaction of the prince and princess Palatine, who previously have expressed dissatisfaction with Mansfelt; the duke has lost his inclination for him because he says the count deceived him about the promises of France for his passage when he left this kingdom. Despite all this, they declare they will pay 30,000l. to Mansfelt and 40,000l. to the King of Denmark.
The French ambassador attributes everything to the private interests of the duke, who wishes first to secure himself with those powers for his defence before parliament and then set on foot his transactions. Meanwhile they will send out the fleet for appearance' sake in an unfavourable season, but one which will provide them with excuses. They persecute the Catholics without any regard for the promises made to the Most Christian; they attempt a general union in Germany to show how they will carry out their plans and to obtain contributions for them, partly in order to keep matters a long way off and partly to win over their parliamentary opponents; in short the duke is operating for his private advantage behind the shield of the princess Palatine, without regard for the State.
The French display open suspicion about these negotiations for a league with the States and the duke's journey. The ambassador would gladly have prevented it, and is sorry to have arrived after the conclusion of the treaty.
The ambassador has also urged upon the king the sailing of the fleet and has asked that Soubise may be handed over to the Most Christian. They answered the first by the actual sailing. The other they refused on the ground of kinship and the right of asylum in this kingdom. The ambassador has not urged the point, but he marvels that they have said nothing to him here about the peace of his country although that is the principal interest. I know that the Rochellese have begged his Majesty and the Dutch to send ambassadors to help them towards peace at the time of their reply to the Most Christian.
Manti, Vice Admiral of the French fleet, (fn. 1) has come to Falmouth with orders to hunt down Soubise. He pretends to have come to revictual, but he found a large ship of Soubise belonging to the Most Christian, captured in the port of Blavet. (fn. 2) He anchored seven ships about it and asked leave of the governor of the place to take it away, but this was refused. Manti preferred the same request to the Vice Admiral of the royal fleet, who confirmed the refusal. The ambassador has asked the king for the ship, but his Majesty hesitates, as by granting this he does not want to bind himself to give up the rest of Soubise's ships, numbering fourteen, although the ambassador made a distinction saying that Soubise took this one as a pirate from the king, and the Rochellese disapproved of the action, while the others were prizes of war and mostly belonged to merchants. Soubise is lodged in a private house and entertained by the king. (fn. 3)
I must now speak of the arrival of Abbot Scaglia's secretary from Paris. He has come to treat for ships, which he discussed with the king at Dover some months ago. He wants a part of the fleet for the Mediterranean in the belief that it is not settled, pretending that it will lighten the expenses for the king. He wants some forty ships, fully armed, which they would undertake to pay, though after the king had maintained them for some months at his expense. They would like to satisfy his Highness here, but in the present state of affairs and with their straitened means, they avoid deciding or giving an answer.
In conformity with my instructions I have tried to facilitate this business, ostensibly on my own responsibility. It will serve at any rate to put that prince under obligation to your Serenity.
The secretary further asks for 24 pieces of ordnance and munitions for 6,000 rounds, for which he will pay. He announced that with the help from France the duke will invade the state of Milan, and the French ambassador does not deny it.
To induce the king to press the war in Italy the agent of the Palatine has persuaded his Majesty to incite France and also to advocate a diversion in Alsace to please Denmark and the other princes with the same interests. The king said he hoped his brother would help Italy; there was no appearance of another diversion.
The Ambassador Joachim told me that the ratification of the alliance with the States will only take place after it has been communicated to the Most Christian; this Court ought not to take offence because the Dutch only aim at the common service and their own preservation, without leaning to one side more than another. He does not think the duke's journey will do any good, because the negotiations for a general league will take too long. The princes who wish should join it one by one.
For the arranging of this league they propose to send the Earl of Carlisle as ambassador extraordinary to Italy; he told me it was also to encourage the Duke of Savoy. In pursuance of the alliance they are contemplating preparations for the second fleet, though nothing is fully arranged. The fleet has started twice and returned owing to bad weather, but from what they say at Court the expedition may be opposed even yet.
The Dutch ships are divided; six have been sent to Dunkirk to strengthen the blockade of the ships there, which cause great uneasiness and to save expense, as of the ten ships sent from here for that purpose only five have been employed, although they promise to send out the others.
The duke took leave of his Majesty in the way reported and went to see his wife. He has not yet departed and this delay gives rise to much comment and speculation.
The news from Denmark continues good. They say the Circle of Lower Saxony has at last made a good declaration. I have your Serenity's commands of the 26th ult., which I shall use for the public service.
Salisbury, the 25th October, 1625.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Oct. 25.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Inghilterra.
Venetian
Archives.
279. ZUANE PESARO, Venetian Ambassador in England, to the DOGE and SENATE.
The offence given me at the late king's funeral has been arranged with complete satisfaction for your Serenity. You will see the punishment of the Master of the Ceremonies by the order issued by the Council. When it was settled they summoned him to the Council table, where on his knees he received the command to absent himself from the Court, to remain a prisoner in his house and never again to exercise his office, for having played the most serene republic an ill turn. He at once obeyed, and this act is the more useful because it takes him away from serving the French ambassador, who never ceases his complaints. The English declare he says it is quite true, that he does not consider the republic as his equal. He has not spoken, so I say nothing. I thanked his Majesty, who received me graciously and promised to do much more to prove his friendship. I said it was a great matter that the man would only be reinstated through your Serenity and by no other means. I made this remark for fear lest the French might gain some accommodation without my knowledge and the king might himself pardon, knowing that although the Master of the Ceremonies had committed a fault, the intrigues and interests of others had led him into error.
At this audience I commended his Majesty's generous resolutions. He said: Assure the republic that I have taken this up out of obedience to my father and from conscience. I will not abandon the public cause and if the fleet now sailing does not secure all the results necessary, I will go on till I have not a drop of blood left, to set matters right through an accommodation for restitution and a good peace (mi disse il Re assicurate la Republica che io sono entrato per comandamento di mio padre et per conscienza, che non abbandonero la causa publica, et se questa flotta che sortira non fara tutti gli efetti necessarii, che continuero con l'ultima goccia del mio sangue per stabilir le cose, con accomodamento ai restitutione et di buona pace).
I commended his Majesty's ideas as worthy of a great prince and wished success to his arms; the justice of his cause was bound to lead to honour and glory. We then spoke of Germany. I impressed upon him that war there would help his plans and the general cause. His Majesty seemed to understand this fully and said that if Gabor would seize this favourable opportunity he would benefit himself and would divide their forces, thus helping the King of Denmark. He spoke to me of Italy and said he felt sure your Excellencies would follow up your plans vigorously. I fully convinced him of the vigour and stedfastness with which your Excellencies employ your forces with the sole object of the public service.
This despatch will go by France for greater safety.
Salisbury, the 25th October, 1625.
[Italian; the part in italics deciphered.]
Enclosed in
the preceding
despatch.
280. At the Court of Salisbury, the 9th October, 1625.
Present.
Lord Treasurer.Earl of Carlisle.
Earl Marshal.Lord Conway.
Lord Chamberlain.Mr. Comptroller.
Earl of Montgomery.Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.
His Majesty having received information of an offence taken by the Venetian ambassador for some neglect committed by Sir Lewis Lewknor in inviting him to the late king's funeral, by which the State considered itself in danger of seeming neglect by his Majesty, although upon examination it was found that Lewknor's sickness and not disrespect was cause thereof, yet in regard of his Majesty's great esteem and affection for that State, whereof he would not fail to give public demonstration, and for the good reputation of the said ambassador, according to a former order contrived at Southampton and through the haste of his Majesty's journey passed over, it is this day ordered that for the full accomplishing thereof Sir Lewis Lewknor shall remain suspended from his office, remanded from the Court and restrained from his liberty until his Majesty's pleasure be further known.
F. Dickenson.
[English.]
Oct. 28.
Senato,
Secreta.
Dispacci,
Spagna.
Venetian
Archives.
281. LUNARDO MORO, Venetian Ambassador in Spain, to the DOGE and SENATE.
They have no certain news of the Dutch fleet going to relieve Baya. They have reinforced the ships at Lisbon and ordered them to go to le Tercere to meet the fleet from the East Indies. If the English fleet sails, I believe they will decide to make two squadrons of fifty ships to follow in its wake. If this disarms one has to consider how they will employ 150 round ships which they now have armed, here and in Flanders.
Madrid, the 28th October, 1625.
[Italian.]
Oct. 31.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Venetian
Archives.
282. To the Ambassador at the Hague.
Eagerly awaiting particulars of the league between England and the States, especially as their ordinaries have come without bringing letters from the Ambassador Pesaro in England, probably owing to the closing of the ports. Consider the alliance as most important owing to the results which may be expected; it will produce a good effect in England and encourage the States. He will send word from time to time of how the alliance is carried into effect. He will thank the States for the information they have imparted about the alliance and congratulate them on behalf of the republic, as having taken the best means to check the ambitions of their enemies; he will also urge them to help Denmark.
Ayes, 122.Noes, 2.Neutral, 3.
[Italian.]
Oct. 31.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Venetian
Archives.
283. To the Ambassador at the Hague.
Wish to know if the allies intend to send any men-of-war into the Mediterranean, and if so with what objects, as hear that the Genoese have sent to Corsica for boats and other provisions, and to Naples and Barcelona for troops, in order to resist the English fleet, which they fear may arrive in those waters. They will have 50 galleys in all. Also hear that the Infanta of Brussels has created a new office, Admiral of Sicily, to command 24 ships to scour the coasts of Flanders. News from France.
Ayes, 122.Noes, 2.Neutral, 3.
[Italian.]
Oct. 31.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni.
Venetian
Archives.
284. To the SECRETARY PADAVIN at the Imperial Court.
Send word of the alliance concluded between England and the Dutch, of the recall of the English Resident Trumbull from Brussels, and the report that the English intend to claim from the Infanta the repayment of certain debts owed by Flanders and Brabant, notably for loans made by Queen Elizabeth, in order to have a pretext for issuing letters of marque.
Ayes, 121.Noes, 0.Neutral, 4.
[Italian.]
Oct. 31.
Senato,
Secreta.
Deliberazioni,
Roma.
Venetian
Archives.
285. To the Ambassador in England.
This week again we have no letters from you, probably through the ports being closed. We are very anxious for them, because we have been in the dark about affairs at that Court for three weeks. Although our Ambassador Contarini has sent us word of the alliance with the Dutch, yet we are especially anxious to learn from you of the objects and intentions of his Majesty and ministers in carrying out the treaty. The order withdrawing Trumbull from Brussels persuades us that his Majesty is in earnest. The news that the allies will maintain powerful fleets makes us anxious to know if they intend any of their ships to enter the Mediterranean. You will tell us all you can on the subject. The Genoese have sent to Corsica for boats and provisions and to Naples and Barcelona for troops in order to have a strong force ready.
On the 18th inst. we sent you our answer to the Duke of Mantua about his proposal to mediate for peace. We now enclose our reply made to his agent after the duke's departure last Tuesday, upon his request for help and advice. This is for information.
Ayes, 121.Noes, 1.Neutral, 5.
[Italian.]

Footnotes

1 Gaspard de Menty, Baron d'Allier.
2 The St. John.
3 At the house of Mr. John Poulet at Hinton in Somerset. Cal. S.P. Dom., 1625–6, pp. 120, 121.