House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 21 April 1610

Saturni, 21 Aprilis, 1610

Ramsey's, &c. Nat.

L. 2. - SIR Geo. Ramsey, &c. - Nat. &c. - Sir Wm. Fleetwood, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Wm. Burlacy, Sir Rich. Spencer, Mr. Tate, Sir Jo. Harrington, Sir Francis Leigh, Sir Jo. Scott, Mr. Martin, Sir Rob. Phelips, Mr. Alford, Sir Gam. Capell, Sir Geo. Fleetwood, Sir Fr. Barrington, Sir H. Poole, Mr. Carye: - Presently, in the Committee Chamber.

Rogues, &c.

L. 2. - Explanation - Statutes of Rogues, &c. - Knights and Burgesses of London, Southwark, Westminster, Sir Edmond Bowyer, Knights of Middlesex, Mr. Hare, Mr. Alford, Mr. James, Mr. Hungerford, Mr. Prowse, Sir Barnard Whytstones, Mr. Breres, Mr. Askwith, Mr. Lieutenant, Mr. Fuller, Sir Jerome Bowes, Sir Edw. Grevell, Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Geo. Moore, Mr. Middleton, Sir Tho. Smyth, Sir Rob. Johnson: - Wednesday, Temple Hall.

Salters, &c.

Mr. Fuller reporteth the Bill of Salters and Brewers. - Ingrossetur.

Pyrates.

L. 2. - Pyrates and Pyracies : - Old Committee, with these added : Sir Rich. Bulkley, Mr. Alford, Sir Edw. Grevill, Sir Rob. Mansell, Sir H. Goodyeare, Sir Barnard Whytstones, Sir Nath. Bacon, Sir Jo. Hungerford, Mr. Ingram, Mr. Hare: - Thursday, Chequer Chamber.

Ramsey's, &c. Nat.

Sir Geo. Moore reporteth the Bill - Nat. of the Prince's Servants; - Sir Geo. Ramsey Knight, &c. - Ingrossetur.

Deer, &c.

B. Deer and Conies, reported by Mr. Brook: - Mr. Alford, contra; Sir Geo. Moore, pro. -

Re-committed. - Added; Sir Rich. Bulkley, Sir Jerome Horsey, Sir Rob. Phelips, Sir Jo. Mallorie, Mr. Bowes, Mr. Alford, Mr. Fuller, Sir Edm. Ludlowe, Sir Barnard Whytstones: - This Afternoon, Court of Wards, One a Clock.

Debts ; Leases.

Assignment of Debts ; Leases to his Majesty; - Wednesday, Chequer Chamber.

Sir H. Crispe.

The Dispute touching Sir H. Crispe, begun again. -

Mr. Brook, pro. Sir Dudley Diggs, contra; Sir Jo. Sammes, Sir Edw. Grevill, Mr. Tolderby, for Sir John Boys, Sir Herbert Crofts, Sir Rob. Hitcham. -

Order in Speaking.

In a continued Speech, One may not speak twice on Two Days. -

Q. Whether Mr. Percyvall shall be heard, offering to speak. -

Bill passed.

Leistoft, and Yarmouth: - Friday, Chequer Chamber.

Tenures and Wardships.

Mr. Attorney reporteth the Conference Yesterday. -

Received Answer from his Majesty, by the Master of the Wards, to the Proposition concerning Wardship. - After the Answer, Sub-committee assembled : Agreed, una voce, to reduce it to his original true Use, from which, by Innovat. it was departed - of late by the Word. - Consumes Time; troubles the Memory; never instructs ; does not Right to the Party. - Reports of the Sinews and Substance of the Cause. -

Gratulate our Meeting since the Recess. - Meeting concern the great Quest. of Wardsh. and Tenures. - Divided our Cons, into Four:

1. What Demand. 2. What Compensation. 3. How to levy. 4. How to secure. -

Meddled but with One. - We did not demand Justice against Injury, nor Exoneration against Law; yet Demand both just and reasonable. - Though ancient, and inherent in the Crown; yet, because the Execution carries a great Train of Abuse in Inferiors, it was not unjust we should desire to give Satisfaction.

Answ. In Three : 1. Wherein the King did agree. 2. Wherein he differed, 3. The Reason. -

Consider the Demand. - The Demand, to make Change of Tenures, and by that to deliver ourselves of divers Charges, &c. - Tenures of his Manors, Tenures of the Crown. - Tenures Manors: Knight Service, or Soccage.

- Repeated all the other Desires incident. - These the King did agree to free; - Petty Serjeantry, Soccage in chief, Fine for Alienations. - The Incident. - The King gives his Assent thus far. -

In Knights Service, or Serjeanty, &c, are immediately in chief of his Person. - Desire not only the Incumbrances, but to take the Tenures from the Person in chief, and holden of Manors. - From Knights Service, to Fealty; from Soccage in chief, to Fealty and Homage. - He is resolute, not transplant this Tenure to a Manor. - The King not to be intreated : - The Lords unremovable as Rocks. - Magnum in parvo: - A great Matter in a small Compass. -

The Reason of the Difference: - In voluntary Actions depending upon free Will, sufficient to say I will not hear of it. -

The King constant to himself: - In all Messages, excepted Point of Sovereignty, or Regality ; and, in return, we professed not to meddle with it. -

His Majesty King of the Territory, as Persons. - Example : - If a Frenchman, and his Wife, live here, as meer Strangers; have a Child; that Child is meer natural. - Local Sovereignty works - Certain Marks of Sovereignty not to be lost, and - No more certain Marks, than that he is Lord of these Dominions by these Tenures.

No Profit, no Necessity, in it. -

That we should, without Jealousy, with Suspicion, without needless Fears, - Not to put rumores ante salutem, but to proceed to our Security; which best pleaseth the King, when it is most safe for us.

Ditto.

Mr. Martin : - That the great Committee may meet (as before) at Seven, and sit till Nine : - All the Lawyers to meet, - Resolved.