Venice
July 1530

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Institute of Historical Research

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Rawdon Brown (editor)

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1871

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246-250

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'Venice: July 1530', Calendar of State Papers Relating to English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 4: 1527-1533 (1871), pp. 246-250. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=94608 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


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Contents

July 1530

July 5. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 230. 585. Sebastian Giustinian to the Signory.
Congratulated the most Christian King on the release of his sons. His Majesty said he was a greater friend to the Signory than any other sovereign in the world; that he had received a letter from the Queen [Madame Eleanor of Portugal], apologizing for the delay in the consignment of his children, which had not been caused by the Emperor, her brother, and implying tacitly that it proceeded from the Pope; and that she had given 3,000 ducats to the Spaniards, not to detain her and the French Princes. The King was gone to Roquefort (de Marsan) to meet the Queen, and consummate the marriage there. He did not choose the ambassadors, or others, to go thither, postponing their congratulations until the time of the entertainments at Paris. The King had also received a very submissive letter from his sons, congratulating themselves on their release. The English ambassador, the Earl of Wiltshire, father of the King's favourite, has departed. He is going to urge his King to succour the Florentines in conjunction with his most Christian Majesty.
Bourges, 5th July. Registered by Sanuto 26th July.
[Italian.]
July 15. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii, p. 296. 586. Lodovico Falter to the Signory.
On the 7th the King, whilst at mass, received the news of the restitution of his most Christian Majesty's sons; during the whole of that day, and at night, very great rejoicings were made.
The King's envoys, sent to obtain counsel's opinion (li consegij) from the doctors at Paris, have arrived.
Cardinal Wolsey is there [at Stoby?], (fn. 1) leading a life of great humility like a religious prelate.
London, 15th July. Registered by Sanuto 20th August.
[Italian.]
July 18. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 217. 587. Divorce Case.
The two ambassadors from England, one of whom is the Bishop of London, the other the Prothonotary Casal, came into the College about the opinions (consulti) which they wish to obtain from the doctors of Padua in favour of the dispensation of the marriage from the Queen.
[Italian.]
July 20. Parti Secrete, Consiglio X. Filza 3. 588. Divorce Case.
Motion made in the Council of Ten and Junta, by the councillors and chiefs.
That to the Right Reverend Bishop elect of London, to the Ambassador Casal, and to Dom. Richard Croke, ambassadors from the King of England, we answer:—By letters from your King we have understood what his Majesty of England wishes to have done in the case of his marriage. Before answering, desire to attest our disposition to do what may be agreeable to him in all things, and although of his great prudence and wisdom, the King will foresee and consider the regards which we must necessarily have in his [divorce] case, nevertheless, we felt no small pleasure when we heard that the doctors of our cities had pronounced their judgment in this case, without compromising us with any one, though we feel surprise at it having been said that we forbad said doctors to give counsel's opinion in this case, (fn. 2) which is untrue, as we have not prohibited this thing, nor do we intend to prohibit it; and had we chosen so to do, our prohibition would have been general and not particular, nor should we have allowed any of them to fail in the obedience which they owe us, or to further interfere in this case. We know that many doctors have given opinions, and, assuredly, to our satisfaction; though possibly others, being dependent on spiritual and temporal princes, have, from fear of giving offence to those concerned, feigned what your Lordships tell us, which, as we have already said, is false. And as your Lordships request us to inform said doctors that we are content, and do not forbid them to give their true opinion (fn. 3) in this case, we say as heretofore, that this mode of explaining our intention to said doctors would be tantamount to insinuating tacitly that they should give counsel's opinion in favour of the divorce; (fn. 4) and we leave it to your prudence to consider how much caution we must use in this matter, and therefore again pray and request your Lordships to acquaint the King with the whole; giving assurance of our constant goodwill towards him, and that we have not failed to perform such office as we could perform, in his aforesaid case, without openly offending those who are interested in it.
Ayes, 10. Noes, 15. Neutrals, 2. (fn. 5)
[Italian.]
July 20. Parti Secrete, Consiglio X. Filza 3. 589. Divorce Case.
Motion made in the Council of Ten and Junta, by the councillors and the chiefs, for a letter from Doge Andrea Gritti to Henry VIII.
Three days ago his Majesty's letter, dated 28th June, was delivered by the Rev. Bishop elect of London, the Prothonotary Casal, and Dominus Richard Croke. Although he had by letter and by the ambassador in England explained to the King the motives which prevent open compliance with his Majesty's demands, had believed that the King from his wisdom, and love for the Doge, would easily have been pacified; but understanding that his reply was not entirely approved by the King, now writes this further letter, and prays his Majesty to acknowledge the condition of the Signory's affairs, and of the present times, and consider the position of the State in this matter. Will not expatiate further on the subject, as his Majesty will hear more clearly and fully from the Republic's ambassador in England.
Ayes, 25. No, 1. Neutral,1.
[Original draft, Latin.]
July 20. Favti Secrete, Consiglio X. Filza 3. 590. Divorce Case.
Motion made in the Council of Ten and Junta, by the councillors and chiefs, for a letter to Lodovico Falier, Venetian Ambassador in England.
By a letter from the King, dated the 28th ult., and from the statement made by the Bishop of London, understood his Majesty was angry because the Signory had not ordained that the doctors of Padua, and other Venetian cities, were to give opinion on his Majesty's case. (fn. 6) Were hurt at this, wishing that their proceedings might satisfy the King. (fn. 7) Answer his Majesty's letter as by enclosed copy; also enclose the original, which he is to present to the King, and use his utmost endeavours to convince him of the Signory's goodwill, adding that if they did not proceed further in his case, as they wished, it was because they were unable to do so without sacrificing the friendship of the Princes who are interested in it. To exert himself to impress this upon the King, using the most efficacious form of speech he can; and as the aforesaid ambassadors show that his Majesty complains that the Signory has not assented to what they demanded in his name,—namely, that they should inform the doctors of their cities that they did not forbid them to give opinion in his case,—should he (Falier) perceive that the King resents this, to tell him that to perform the office required by the ambassadors would be tantamount to having originally commanded and ordered said doctors to give opinion in favour of his Majesty, which is incompatable with the obligations incumbent on the Signory.
Ayes, 25. No, 1. Neutral, 1.
[Original draft, Italian.]
July 24. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 227. 591. Divorce Case.
The English ambassadors, namely, the ambassador resident [Prothonotary Casal], and the Bishop of London, came into the College; all the members having no seat in the Council of Ten withdrew. The ambassadors demand the opinion (conseio) of the Paduan doctors concerning the marriage.
[Italian.]
July 27. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 231. 592. Divorce Case.
The English ambassadors, the Bishop of London and Casal, came into the College about the opinions (consegij) required by the King in favour of his divorce from the Queen.
[Italian.]
July 30. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 233. 593. Divorce Case.
The English ambassadors came into the College, the chiefs of the Ten being present at their audience. The business related to the opinions (conseglij) which their King wishes the Paduan doctors to give concerning the divorce.
[Italian.]
July 30. Sanuto Diaries, v. liii. p. 234. 594. Divorce Case.
In the afternoon the Council of Ten and Junta sat, and determined that the affair of England should be referred to the Senate, the decision and reply of the Council being read there.
[Italian.]
July 30. Parti Secrete, Consiglio X. Filza 3. 595. Divorce Case.
Motion made in the Council of Ten and Junta, by the chiefs, for a letter to Lodovico Falier, Venetian Ambassador in England.
Inform him that having read to the English ambassadors the letter written to his Majesty, and the announcement which they charged their ambassador in England to make to the King, the English ambassadors showed dissatisfaction, and subsequently, having twice had audience of the Signory, requested them with great earnestness to grant their petition, at least with regard to that part of it requiring an intimation to be made to the doctors of the Republic's cities, to the effect that by giving opinion on his Majesty's case, (fn. 8) they will not incur the displeasure of the State. To this the Signory did not assent, for the reasons expressed in the accompanying statement; whereupon the Bishop of London used violent language, reviling the Signory, and adding that he would write the whole to his Majesty, who, he doubted not, would make the Signory know how much he was displeased, and bursting forth into expressions which they are convinced were very remote from the King's good disposition towards them and their affairs. To this language they replied with all modesty, knowing what their observance to the King required, and also that if the form of speech employed by the Bishop of London were spread amongst the Republic's merchants who proposed shipping goods on board the Signory's galleys destined for the English voyage, the said merchants would doubt as to risking their property if they were not sure of a good and friendly greeting in England. So although the Signory has not the least doubt of his Majesty's goodwill towards their subjects and affairs, nevertheless, acquainted as they are with the timidity of said merchants, have determined to add the present letter, charging him (Falier), after having told the King what is aforesaid, to suggest that his Majesty should write a gracious letter to the State, to render their merchants sure of the King's good will and disposition toward the Signory and their affairs.
Ayes, 27. No, 1. Neutrals, 2.
[Original draft, Italian.]
July 31. Lettere del Collegio (Secreta), File no. 12. 596. The Doge and College to the Venetian Ambassador with the Emperor.
Send him letters from the Signory addressed to their ambassador in England, which, being of no little importance, he is to forward by the speediest and safest means.
[Italian.]

Footnotes

1 See Cavendish, p. 168.
2 “Il consegliar ad esse causa.”
3 “Che consiglino la verità in questa causa.”
4 “Ad consegliar favovabilmente ad essa causa.”
5 The ballotation shows that the motion was negatived.
6 “Consiglino alla causa di Sua Maestà.”
7 “Desideraudo come facemo ogni sedationc et satisfaction del animo di quella de le operation nustre.”
8 “Che consigliando loro alla causa di Sua Maestà.” Query, “giving counsel's opinion in favour of his Majesty's case.”


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