House of Commons Journal Volume 1
08 March 1606

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History of Parliament Trust

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 08 March 1606', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 280-281. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=9666 Date accessed: 01 October 2014.


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Saturni, 8o Die Martii, 1605

Leave of Absence.

Mr. Hyde hath Leave to depart, by the House, his Mother being dead.

Leave of Absence, &c.

Sir John Townsend hath Leave, upon special Occasion: Sheriff last Year, his Under-sheriff sick . - To deliver over the Gaol to the new Sheriff.

Downes' Bill.

Downes his Bill being Yesterday, upon the Question, to be ingrossed, it was found, that a Part of it was lost; and being desired to be joined, and put to Question, it was against the Order; and a new Bill ordered to be drawn.

Message from the King - Purveyors.

Mr. Speaker commanded to attend the King; - Delivereth, at Nine a Clock, his Majesty's gracious Message. -

Three Parts :

1. Matter of Form.

2. Other, Substance.

His Majesty taketh Notice of the Speaking Two Days.-

Would have the Question ended in any Matter of his. -

In any Thing that concerns himself, to leave it to the Privilege and Order of the House.

Substance.

Matter, Composition; originally moved from himself: -

Abuses of the Purveyors, Oppressions of the People. -

The best Course, to rid them quite out. -

Had no Meaning, either to hurt the People, or to gain. -

If his Right, and Security, be doubted, then the Judges to determine. -

Where they were punished by the Green-cloth and Star-chamber, he would now leave to the Judges of the Law, or cause the Punishment himself. -

He would furnish himself with such Means, as should make him less need the Use of Purveyance. -

For the other, he remembered his Message, and all other Circumstances touching Supply : - Leaves himself to their Loves in all.

Purveyors, &c.

Purveyors : Composition. -

Sir Henry Poole: - Compares our Proceeding to the Tennis Court: - Composition hazard; some over Line, some under, -

A new Conference with the Lords; - Opinion of the Judges.

Sir Edwyn Sandys: - Happy in the King, and in Messages from him. -

To suit, as near as we can, his Majesty's Message in our Course. -

Avoid Extremity of Flattery : - Of Popularity. -

Flatterers : - What they have got, the World knoweth ; what they do get, they know; what they ought to get, Salomon : - Such as do spread Nets for their Feet. -

His Protestation touching Popularity. -

The King's Introitus less than his Exitus. - The heaviest News that ever came to Court of Parliament. -

The Peace much Wormwood in it. -

The Judgment of War taken away : - That of Pestilence instead thereof. -

More Rents behind, than ever.

If Three Gentlemen in a Shire be beforehand, Thirty behind. -

This generally for the Poverty.

Purveyors: - .

Three Heads :

1. Whether it be fit to leave this Matter as it is:

. . Whether this Course :

. . Whether a new Course.

1. Concerns the Wisdom of this House.

2. Our Justice towards our Country.

3. Our Duty to his Majesty.

1. To leave now, were to wrong the King. -

Reformation of such Abuse. -

A just Complaint ought ever have a just Audience. -

Rather a Subsidy of Hearts, than Purses: - From this House, a Bill; from the Lords, a Motion of Composition. -

1. Composition: - Wished we had been clearly resolved.

The King's Prerogative as ancient, as strong Part of the Law. -

Jus sacrum, jus privatum, jus publicum. -

Jus regium - Qui scrutatur majestatem, opprimetur a gloria : - Ill applied to Prerogative : - Not infinite. -

That Law, whereby he holds his Scepter. -

Prerogatives, essential; - accidental. -

Essential cannot be bought, or bound. - Purveyance essential, but to buy at a lower Rate, not essential: - May be compounded for. -

Composition. - Objections : - .

Dishonourable, unjust, unsound. -

Not unjust to compound. -

The King cannot take a good Satten at an under Value. -

No such Composition, as suits the Easiness of the Burden, and the Greatness of his Majesty's Wants. -

The King's Prerogative, in his own Hand, a golden Scepter; in the Purveyors, a Whip of Scorpions. -

Unsoundness: If thirty-seven Laws produced no Effect, then thirty-eight none. -

Composition dangerous in Precedent. -

Our Ancestors imposed no Tribute : - I do not see, that we are wiser. -

The Reason of Offer of Composition for Wards: - The Point of Right in a Sort determined : - Escuage vers. Escose. -

Besides, should be beneficial to the King, than before. -

This Grievance of Purveyors over every Foot: - Ward over some. -

A perpetual Tax : - Rather a Part of Land. - Not to let the Bill sleep. -

Precedent. - If, upon such a Message, a Bill be made sleep, then every Bill. -

We hope, we shall give the King so good Content, as he will do much more than give Passage to the Bill. -

To have a Pause in the Bill: - To proceed with us in much Duty and Care. -

Course for the Supply of his Majesty's Necessity. -

R. Discharge of Privy Seals in H. VIII. Time: - Not Justice. -

Resumption hath Example : - Some Kings resume other King's Gifts, some their own. -

If a great Consumption, then a Resumption,

5. Project. -

Best Recourse to the Word of God. - Judicial Law bind none but the Jews. -

The Equity of the Moral Law. - Deut. Ezechiel. -

Four Limitations: -

Excessive Pleasure, Riches, Strength, Pomp. -

The King shall have a Demesne : - Shall not meddle with the Possessions of his People. -

To diminish his own Charge : -

To maintain his Demesne.

The King's Speech, that he had continued a perpetual Christenmas. -

Draining of the Fens to be to his Majesty's Benefit, the Subjects Charge. -

Whether feasible: - The Time somewhat for seven Years. - Whether injurious. -

Consideration to be had, by the Committee, of all Means for Supply of his Majesty, in respect of that, which shall be taken from him by the Bill.

Sir Geo. Moore demandeth, whether it be resolved, he may speak. -

Considering the Message : - Such a Message, as never was ; such a King, as never was. -

A great Honour to Mr. Speaker. -

Experience to be credited, as well as Law. -

Composition better. -

Doubtful, whether to pass: - Doubtful, what Effect. - A Probationer. -

No Tax upon Land : -

A Message to the Lords; and to yield a Reason of leaving Composition. -

A Committee for the rest.

Sir Rob. Drury: - That the King will not depart with any thing, must be left to his Successors. -

The Law will provide for us, after we have compounded. -

Consideration annual. -

Fens, Purveyors, &c.

Draining of the Fens, to a Committee.

Sir Dan. Dun: - Temerarium majestatem principis finibus includere. - &c.

Whether Regalia may pass by Contract.- -

Less prejudicial. -

More prejudicial - To hold, or not to hold. -

The King's Plenty, his Bounty, ours. - Never Prince gave more Honours, Dignities. -

2. Whether convenient to compound. -

Laws, Dictamen rationis ad regendum populum. -

To confer with the Lords.

Mr. Speaker: - That his Majesty's Pleasure is, if we like, not to meddle any further with Composition.