Historical Collections of Private Passages of State: Volume 5, 1642-45. Originally published by D Browne, London, 1721.
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CHAP. XIX. The whole Proceedings of the Treaty at Uxbridge, which began January the 30th, and ended February the 22d, 1644/5.
There had been (as you have heard) some Overtures for a Treaty made by his Majesty, in January and March, 1643/4; but the two Houses conceiving, that in those Messages they were not sufficiently owned to be a Parliament, returned a kind of Expostulatory Letter (herein before recited) to his Majesty on that Occasion, and no further Progress was at that Time made towards the Treaty.
But about Nov. 1644, the two Houses, with the Consent of the Scottish Commissioners, having prepared certain Propositions for Peace, a Letter was sent to the General of the King's Army, for a safe Conduct for the Lords and Commons, and Scots Commissioners, that were appointed to carry them to the King, viz. The Earl of Denbigh and the Lord Maynard, of the Peers, Mr.Pierpoint, Mr.Hollis, Mr.Whitlock, and the Lord Wennam, of the House of Commons; and the Lord Maitland, Sir Charles Erskins and Mr.Bartlay for Scotland. The Trumpeter return'd with a safe Conduct from Prince Rupert, under the King's Hand and Seal, which yet took no notice of them, as Members of Parliament, but as private Persons; however, the Parliament accepted it. And on the 20th of November, the said Committee set out of Town, going first to Reading, as supposing the King had been at Marlborough, but were there informed that his Majesty was gone to Wallingford; therefore, tho' it were late, and the Ways and Weather bad, they hasted in the Evening cross the Country, and took up their Lodging that Night, as well as they could, at Nettlebed, a little Country Town, and next Morning went towards Wallingford, and staying about a Mile from the Town, sent a Letter to Collonel Blake, the Governour, desiring Entrance into the Town, by vertue of their safe Conduct from the King, whom they were to wait upon with Propositions from the Parliament. The said Collonel sent to them for their safe Conduct, which they refused to part with, alledging it was their Security for their Passage, but shew'd it to his Messenger, and sent him a Copy; who then sent a Troop of Horse to convey them into the Town, and when they came to his Quarters, called for Wine for them, but said, He believed the King was returned to Oxford. In discourse, some Differences happened between the Earl of Denbigh and him, concerning some Passages of War, wherein they both had been Actors, which arising to some Heat, all the Company thought fit to remove from that Garrison, and accordingly took leave of the Governour, and next Morning came to Oxford, but staid in the Field till they sent a Messenger to Sir Jacob Ashley, the Governour, acquainting him with their Business and safe Conduct, and desiring Entrance and Accommodation; who return'd answer, He would acquaint his Majesty, and know his Pleasure: And after some Hours Attendence in the wet and cold open Field, a Troop of Horse came to convoy them into the City, being brought to a mean Inn for their Quarters, the Sign of the Katherine-Wheel, next St.John's Colledge.
The Propositions were read by the Earl of Denbigh to the King, who heard them with much Patience, and asked the Committee If they had Power to Treat: They answer'd, No, But their Commission was to receive his Majesty's Answer in Writing. The King replied, Then a Letter-Carrier might have done as much as you. To which the Earl of Denbigh said, I suppose your Majesty looks upon us as Persons of another Condition than Letter-Carriers. The King said again, I know your Condition, but I say that your Commission gives you Power to do no more than a Letter-Carrier might have done.
The Earl of Lindsey having sent one of his Gentlemen, upon the first arrival of the Commissioners, to compliment Hollis and Whitlock, after the Propositions delivered, they two, with the Consent of the rest of the Commissioners, went in the Evening to return his Civility by a Visit, whom they found indisposed, and in his Bed, and divers Noblemen with him; and amongst the rest, the Lord Savile, then newly made Earl of Sussex. They had not been there a quarter of an Hour, when the King and Prince Rupert, and several Persons of prime Quality in the Court, came into the Chamber. The King seeing Hollis and Whitlock, saluted them very obligingly, and began to discourse with them, part whereof was to this Effect:
K. I know they are, and am confident that you, who are here, and your Friends (I must not say your Party) in the House, endeavoured to have had them otherwise, for I know you are Well-willers to Peace.
K. Your Service, Mr. Hollis, and the rest of those Gentlemen whose desire hath been for Peace, hath been very acceptable to me, who do earnestly desire it my self; and in order to it, and out of the Confidence I have of you two that are here with me, I ask your Opinion and Advice, what answer will be best for me to give at this time to your Propositions, which may probably further such a Peace as all good Men desire.
Holl. We should be far from advising any thing that might be of the least danger to your Majesty's Person; and, I beleive, your coming to your Parliament would be none, but we must humbly submit that to Your Majesty's own Pleasure and great Wisdom.
K. Let us pass by that, and let me desire you two, Mr.Hollis and Mr.Whitlock, to go into the next Room, and a little confer together, and to set down somewhat in Writing, which you apprehend may be fit for me to return in answer to your Message, and that, in your Judgments, may facilitate and promote this good work of Peace.
Hollis and Whitlock being together by themselves, upon discourse concluded, That it would be no breach of Trust in them to observe the King's desire herein, but rather might be a means to facilitate the work about which they came, viz. Peace; and therefore, as they both agreed, Whitlock wrote down what was their sense, as to what might be fit for the substance of the King's Answer to their Message, but he wrote it not in his usual hand, nor with any Name to it; nor was any Person present but they two, when it was written, nor did the King admit any others to hear the discourse which passed betwixt him and them: The Paper so written they left upon the Table in the Withdrawing-Room, and the King went in and took it, and with much Favour bid them Farewel, and went away himself; and they taking leave of the Earl of Lindsey, and the rest of the Company, repair'd to their Lodgings. But the Lord Savile, some time after quiting the King's Party, and coming into the Parliament, accused Hollis and Whitlock for this secret Correspondence, yet he not being able to make out any particulars, nor could all the Examinations at Committees, and in the House of Commons, get it out of them, so they got off, and this discourse remain'd a Secret till Mr.Whitlock publish'd it lately in his Memorials.
On the 27th of November, the said Commissioners who carry'd the Parliament's Propositions for Peace, had the King's Answer sent unto them sealed up; where-upon they consulting together, thought it not fit for them to receive an Answer in that manner, not being acquainted what it was, nor any Copy of it (as was usual in like Cases) sent with it unto them, therefore they desired to be excused from receiving that Answer so sealed, and made an Address to his Majesty, that they might know what his Answer was, and have a Copy of it. To which his Majesty replyed, What is that to you, who are but to carry what I send; and if I will send the Song of Robin Hood, and Little John, you must carry it, To which the Commissioners only said, That the Business about which they came, and were to return with his Majesty's Answer, was of somewhat more Consequence than that Song; but afterwards a Copy of the Answer was sent them.
Another Exception they took to the Paper of the Answer was, That it was not directed to any Body, nor the Parliament so much as acknowledged or named in it. To which the King answered, That it was delivered to the Parliament's Commissioners, which was sufficient; and some of his Lords told them, that they could not get it otherwise, chiefly because they were there as Commissioners of both Kingdoms, and earnestly intreated the Commissioners for Peace sake, to receive it as it was then sent to them, who having debated the same amongst themselves, and considering that they must take upon themselves to break off the Treaty for Peace, in case they refused this Paper, and that it would be more proper to leave it to the Judgment of their Principals, they did receive the Answer, and came therewith to Westminister, November 29. And next day the same was read (which you will find hereafter recited, the substance, besides expressions of his Majesty's Inclinations to Peace, was at a Conference of both Houses to demand a safe Conduct for the Duke of Lenox, and the Earl of Southampton, to come with an Answer to their Propositions) great Exceptions were made, and highly debated, against the form and want of Directions of this his Majesty's Message; but at last it was carried to lay aside those Objections, and Thanks were returned to the Commissioners for their faithful Service and discreet Carriage in this Affair; And further it was Resolv'd that the Lord General should return a Letter by a Trumpeter to Prince Rupert, to this Effect,—That whereas a safe Conduct is desired for the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of Southampton to come from the King with an Answer to the Propositions for Peace; If his Majesty shall send to the Parliament of England Assembled at Westminster, and to the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, They would with all readiness grant them a safe conduct, and Treat with them according to his Majesty's desire, for a speedy way of stopping the great Effusion of Blood, and putting a Period to the sad and ruinating Distractions of this Kingdom: There being nothing more desired by them than the establishing of such a firm and solid Peace as may tend to his Majesty's Honour, the Advancement of Protestant Religion, and the preservation of the just Priviledges of Parliament and Liberty of the Subject.
'I am commanded by his Majesty to desire of your Lordship safe Conduct for the Duke of Richmond and the Earl of Southampton, with their Attendants, Coaches, Horses, and other Accommodations sitting for their Journey in their coming to London, during their Stay, and in their Return when they shall think fit; From the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, to bring to the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England, and the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, now at London; an Answer to the Propositions sent to his Majesty for a safe and well-grounded Peace.
A safe Conduct was forthwith dispatch'd, and the Duke of Richmond and Earl of Southampton came to London on Saturday, Dec. 14. and were conducted to Somerset House, the place appointed for their Lodging and Entertainment, where the next day they had Divine Service according the Liturgy, and Dr. Hammond Preached before them. On Monday they sent to the Lords House to give them Notice of their being arrived with an Answer from his Majesty to both Houses of Parliament, and to the Commissioners of Scotland, and desired to know when they might be received to deliver it. Whereupon it was Ordered, That their Reception should be the day following by a Committee of Fourteen Lords, and Twenty Eight Commoners, and the Scottish Commissioners in the painted Chamber. Where accordingly on the 17th in the Evening they delivered his Majesty's Answer dated Dec. 13th, proposing a Treaty for the better debating the Propositions. [Which Answer see recited hereafter in his Majesty's Declaration.]
On Thursday, December 19. The Lords and Commons and Scottish Commissioners agreed on an Answer to be returned by them to his Majesty, and to be delivered them by the Committee appointed for their first Reception, as followeth.
'We your Majesty's most humble and loyal Subjects of both Kingdoms have taken into Consideration your Majesty's Message for a Treaty of Peace dated at Oxford the 13th of this Instant December, sent by the Duke of Lenox, and Earl of Southampton, directed to the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster and to the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland; And do in all humbleness return this Answer; That we do consent there be a Treaty for a safe and well grounded peace. But find that it will require some time to resolve concerning the Instructions and manner of the Treaty. And therefore that your Majesty might not be held in 'suspence, touching our Readiness to make use of any Opportunity for attaining such a blessed and happy Peace, in all your Majesty's Dominions; We would not stay your Majesty's Messengers till we do resolve upon all the particulars; which we will take into serious Consideration, and present our humble desires unto your Majesty with all convenient Speed.
The same Day there was a Petition presented to the House of Commons from the Mayor, Aldermen and Common Council of London, setting forth the great Apprehensions the City lay under by reason of the great Number of suspicious Persons, which at this time made resort thither, and had just ground to suspect their Intentions were not good, desiring Power form the Parliament to make search for and apprehend them and all other disaffected Persons in and about the City. For which the Petitioners had thanks, and a Lift of the Names of the Attendants of the two Lords from Oxford, (which had been desired and given in upon their first coming to Town, that no Affront might be offered them) being in all Forty Eight in Number, was delivered to the Provost Martial, to the end such as were not comprehended in that List should be seized as Spies, and proceeded against according to the Ordinance.
December 20th, the Committee of both Houses delivered the said Answer of the Parliament to his Majesty's Message from Oxford, unto the Duke of Lenox and Earl of Southampton in the painted Chamber singed by the Speakers of both Houses. But the Duke acquainting them, that they had further Matters to impart from his Majesty to the two Houses of Parliament, the Committee not conceiving themselves impowered to receive any such further Matters, thought fit to acquaint the two Houses therewith, and were by them Authorised to receive what they had to offer, the next Day, at which time the Duke and Earl delivered in a Paper that spake as followeth:
My Lords and Gentlemen,
'We are Commanded by his Majesty to let you know that it is his Desire before our going hence, we might receive a Resolution to that Part of his Majesty's desire, expressed in his Message of the 13th of December, 1644. concerning your Treating with him by fit Persons to be appointed on either Party; That so according to what hath been agreed upon we may have opportunity to offer what else we have in charge form his Majesty in order to the procuring of an happy Peace. But yet his Majesty earnestly desires that the way proposed by him may be agreed unto, as that which he conceives to be the most likely means speedily to draw on an happy and well grounded Peace; Whereas otherwise the distance of the place, which his Majesty is most likely to reside in, as also many other respects will extreamly lengthen the Treaty and defer the attaining that happy end, a blessed Peace which his Majesty above all other things, so earnestly desires, and consequently be a Cause of the further Effusion of his Subjects Blood: Besides the many other Losses to the Kingdom, which his Majesty is so desirous to prevent, that as he will readily do what else shall be requisite on his Part, so he will most willingly give such Power to the Persons imployed by him, as there shall be little or no Loss of time upon that Occasion. The Compassionate Sense his Majesty hath of the Misery and Calamity the Kingdom doth suffer by this unnatural War, prevailing so far that he is as earnest in seeking out the Remedy as if he himself were the only Sufferer.
'The Desires expressed in the last Paper given in by your Lordships are part of his Majesty's Message of the 13th of this instant December, and concern the manner of Treaty, which (according to the Answer already given) will require some time to be resolv'd upon, and therefore it is the Desire of both Houses of Parliament and of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, That your Lordships will be pleased speedily to make your Repair to his Majesty with the Answer already given to his Majesty's Message brought by your Lordships.
And accordingly their Lordships did on Tuesday, December 24. set out towards Oxford; and upon the 17th of January following Sir Peter Killegrew was dispatch'd thither with a Letter to his Majesty sign'd by the Speakers of both Houses (here- after also recited (naming their Commissioners and Uxbridge for place of Treaty, and desiring a safe Conduct, that his Majesty would he pleased to Nominate his Commissioners to whom they should be ready to give a like safe Conduct. Accordingly his Majesty returned the following safe Conduct (in a Letter from Prince Rupert to the Earl of Essex.
Charles by the Grace of God King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, &c. To our Generals, Lieutenant Generals, Commanders in Chief, Generals of Towns, Colonels, Lieutenant Colonels, Captains, Officers, and Soldiers belonging to any of our Armies or Garrisons, and to all other our Ministers and loving Subjects to whom these Presents shall come Greeting. Our Pleasure and Command is that every of you permit and suffer, that Algernon Earl of Northumberland, Philip Earl of Pembroke and Montgomery, William Earl of Salisbury, Bazil Earl of Denbigh, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzil Hollis, William Pierepont, Sir Henry Vane Junior, Oliver St. John, Bulstrode Whitlock, John Crew, Edmond Prideaux, for the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and John Earl of Loudon, Lord Chancellor of Scotland, Archibal Marquess of Arguile, John Lord Maitland, John Lord Balmerino, Sir Archibald Johnson, Sir Charles Erskin, George Dundas, Sir Jo.Smith. Mr. Hugh Kenedy and Mr. Robert Berkly, for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, together with Mr. Alexander Henderson and with their Retinue mentioned in a List annexed, together with the Retinue of the Scottish Commissioners not exceeding in all the Number of an Hundred and eight Persons, together with their Horses, Coaches, and all Accommodations for their Journey, may repair to Uxbridge from London, stay there and return at their Pleasure, and that they and any of them be permitted freely, and as often as they shall please to go themselves or send any of their Retinue to and from Uxbridge and London, without any Let, Hindrance, Interruption, or Molestation whatsoever; and to these, our Commands we require your due Obedience, as you tender our Service, and will Answer the contrary at your atmost Perils. Given under our Signet at our Court at Oxford the 21st Day of January, 1644.
There was also herewith sent his Majesty's Answer to the Parliament's Message by Sir Peter Killigrew, wherein were Nominated his Majesty's Commissioners, for whom the Prince desired the like safe Conduct, Viz.
- The Duke of Richmond.
- The Marquess of Hertford.
- The Earl of Southampton.
- The Earl of Kingston.
- The Earl of Chichester.
- The Lord Capel.
- The Lord Seymour.
- The Lord Hatton.
- The Lord Colepeper.
- Secretary Nicholas.
- Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir Edward Hide.
- The Lord Ch. Baron, Sir Edward Lane.
- Sir Orlando Bridgeman.
- Sir Thomas Gardiner.
- Mr. Jo. Ashburnham.
- Mr. Jeoffry Palmer and Dr.Stuart, and their Attendants, in all to the Number of 108.
There came also herewith certain Propositions made by his Majesty to the Parliament: The Copies of which Message and Propositions see afterwards in his Majesty's Naratory Declaration touching this Treaty.
January 24. A Report was made to the Houses from the Committee of both Kingdoms of the form of a safe Conduct for the King's Commission (the framing thereof having been referr'd to them) in which the New Titles conferred on any of them, since the Great Seal was carried away from the Parliament, were omitted, so that the Earl of Chichester was stiled Lord Dunsmore, the Lord Colepeper, Sir John Colepeper, the Lord Hatton, Sir Christopher Hatton, and so the New made Knight Sir Edward Hide was called Mr. Hide, &c. Several Conferences pass'd between the Lords and Commons about this matter, the Lords insisting that the safe Conduct should be sent giving them all their Titles as Specified by the King without Exceptions; The Commissions gave Reasons in Answer, and especially that they could not condescend to admit those New Titles, for that it would be directly opposite to one of the Propositions of both Houses to the King, which is, that all Titles of Honour whatsoever conferred by his Majesty since the carrying away of the Great Seal should be void; At last it was agreed, that the New Titles of the Lords should be omitted, but those of the Knights (being no Honour under the great Seal) should be inserted; and accordingly the safe Conduct was sent away January 25th by Sir Peter Killigrew to Oxford. And his Majesty was pleased to accept the same notwithstanding such Alteration.
Whereas Almighty God in his Justice to punish the Crying Sins of the Land hath sent a Civil Sword throughout all our Dominions, which bath miserably wasted, and threatens a speedy and utter Desolation to the same: And now in the height of these Calamities a Treaty is assented to, to begin at Uxbridge on Thursday the 30th, day of this Instant January, touching the composing and ending of those unhappy Differences and Distraction about which so much Blood hath been already spilt, which Treaty may by the Blessing of God (who is the disposer of Mens Hearts and of all Events) be a means to produce a Peace: And where as it is the Duty and hath been the Practice of Christians under Affliction to set apart some time for publick and solemn Humiliation and Prayer for removing of God's Judgments, and particularly for a Blessing and good Success to the means of conducing to their Deliverance: We do therefore by this our Proclamation appoint and streightly Charge and Command that on Wednesday being the fifth of February next ensuing, a solemn Fast be kept in all Places within our Dominions whither the Notice of this our Proclamation shall or may come before that time, that both Prince and People may then join together in a true Humiliation, and devout and earnest Prayer to God, that he shall be pleased to bless and prosper this intended Treaty, that it may produce a happy Peace in all our Dominions, such as may be for his Honour, and the good of his Church, and of us and all our Subjects. And we do hereby charge and require all our Subjects of what Degree or Condition soever they be, which shall have no Notice of this our Proclamation, that they religiously prepare and apply themselves to a due Observation of the same by Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer on that day, and in hearing of God's Word, as they will Answer to God their neglect of this Christian Duty, and as they will Answer to us their neglect of this our just and necessary Command. And for the better and more orderly Observation of this Fast, We do hereby appoint that the Form of Prayer and Service of God set forth in the Book heretofore publish'd for the Monthly Fast with such Alterations and Additions as shall be prepared and fitted for this present purpose, and publish'd in Print before the said Day, shall be used in all Churches and Chappels where this Fast shall be kept. Given at our Court at Oxford this 27th day of January in the Twentieth Year of our Reign, 1644.
The Commissioners for the Treaty on both Parts met at Uxbridge on Wednesday, January the 29th, and had their several Quarters, those for the Parliament and their Retinue, on the North side of the Town, and those for the King on the South-side, and no intermixture of the one Party's Attendants with the other; The best Inn of the one side was the rendesvouz of the Parliament's Commissioners, and the best Inn of the other side of the Street was for the King's Commissioners.
The Evening that they came to Town several Visits passed between particular Commissioners of either Party, as Sir Edward Hide came to visit Mr.Hollis and Mr. Whitlock, the Lord Culpeper visited Sir Henry Vane, and others of the King's Commissioners visited several of the Parliament's Commissioners, and had long Discourse about the Treaty, and to perswade one another to a Compliance; so also Mr. Whitlock visited Sir Edward Hide, and Mr. Palmer Sir Richard Lane and others, and several other of the Parliament's Commissioners visited divers of the King's Commissioners, and had Discourses with them tending to the Furtherance of the Business of the Treaty.
The Town was exceeding full of Company that it was hard to get any Quarter, except for the Commissioners and their Retinue, and some of the Commissioners were forced to lye two of them in a Chamber in Field Beds, only upon a Quilt, in that cold Weather, not coming into a Bed during all the Treaty.
This place being within the Parliament's Quarters their Commissioners were the more civil and desirous to afford Accommodations to the King's Commissioners, and they thought it fit to appoint Sir John Bennet's House at the further end of the Town, to be fitted for the place of meeting for the Treaty.
The Fore-way into the House was appointed for the King's Commissioners to come in at, and the Back-way for the Parliament's Commissioners; in the middle of the House, was a fair great Chamber where they caused a large Table to be made like that heretofore in the Star-Chamber, almost square and without any upper or lower end of it.
The King's Commissioners had one end and one side of the Table for them, the other side was for the Parliament's Commissioners, and the end appointed for the Scots Commissioners to fit by themselves. Behind the Chair of the Commissioners on both sides sate the Divines and Secretaries, and such of the Commissioners as had not room to fit next to the Table.
The Parliament's Commissioners delivered to the King's Commissioners in Writing the Propositions and Votes of both Houses concerning the settling of Religion in a Presbyterial way, which were appointed for the Debate of the three first Days of the Treaty.
- 1. What was meant by the Presbyterial Government propounded to be Establish'd?
- 2. What was meant by Classes?
- 3. What was meant by Provincial and Synodical Assemblies?
- 4. What was meant by the Bounds of Parishes? With other Questions depending upon these.
Upon this Entrance into this Debate of the Points, Dr. Steward spake very learnedly (though some what warmly) against Presbyterial Government in the Church of England, which has so long been under Episcopacy, which he thought most suitable to our Church, and to be Jure Divino.
Mr. Henderson and Mr. Marshal answered the Doctor, commending the Presbyterian way of Government, and that Episcopacy was not so suitable to the Word of God as Presbytery, which they argued to be Jure Divino.
Here is much said concerning Church-Government in the General, the Reverend Doctors, on the King's Part, affirm that Episcopacy is Jure Divino; the Reverend Ministers of the other Part do affirm, That Presbytery is Jure Divino. For my part, I think that neither the one nor the other, nor any Government whatsoever, is Jure Divino, and I desire we may leave this Argument, and proceed to debate upon the particular Proposals.
The Earl of Pembroke was of the same Judgment with the Marquess of Hertford, and many of the Commissioners, besides these two Lords, were willing to pass over this Point, and to come to the Particulars.
Mr. Henderson told them, that he, in his younger days, had been a Pedagogue, and had also read Logick and Rhetorick to his Scholars, but had wholly, of late, declin'd that kind of Learning, yet hoped he had not forgot all of it, and therefore agreed to dispute Syllogistically.
In that way they proceeded upon the Points urged by the King's Doctors, which were very clearly and largely opened by Mr. Vynes, Mr. Marshal, and Mr. Henderson, and very learnedly replyed unto by all the King's Doctors, who did severally declare their Judgments upon these Points, but the Arguments on both Parts were too large to be admitted a Place in this Story.
They agreed to give in to each other Papers in Writing, of their particular Proposals, and then, as there should be Occasion, to have Verbal Debates upon any of these Particulars; and accordingly, the Parliament's Commissioners first delivered in Papers to the King's Commissioners, four Particulars, concerning Religion first to be treated on, viz.
His Majesty having received an Account from his Commissioners, of their Proceedings in the late Treaty at Uxbridge, to the end that all his People may be fully satisfied, of his earnest and constant Endeavours to procure the Publick Peace, whereby to put an end to these present Miseries, bath commanded this full and plain Narrative, of all the Passages concerning that Treaty, to be made and published.
After his Majesty's Message from Evesham, of the 4th of July last, desiting and propounding a Treaty for Peace, and his second Message from Tavistoke, of the 8th of September last, renewing that Desire, at length, on the 23d Day of November last past, the Earl of Denbigh, and others, repaired to his Majesty at Oxford, with Propositions in these Words following:
We Your Majesty's Loyal Subjects, assembled in the Parliaments of both your Kingdoms, from the Sence of that Duty we owe unto Your Majesty, and of the deep Sufferings, and many Miseries, under which your People of all your Kingdoms lye bleeding in this Unnatural War, after long and serious Consultation about the best Ways and Means of their Preservation, and for settling Your Majesty's Throne, and your Subjects in Peace and Security, have, with common Consent, resolved upon these Propositions, which we do humbly tender unto Your Majesty.
The humble Desires and Propositions for a safe and well-grounded Peace, agreed upon by the mutual Advice and Consent of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, united by solemn League and Covenant, to be presented to His Majesty.
1. That by Act of Parliament in each Kingdom respictively, all Oaths, Declarations and Proclamations, against both or either of the Houses of the Parliament of England, and the late Convention of Estates in Scotland, or Committees flowing from the Parliament, or Convention in Scotland, or their Ordinances and Proceedings, or against any for adhering unto them; and all Indictments, Out-lawries and Attainders against any for the said Causes, be declared null, suppressed and forbidden; and that this be publickly intimated in all Parish-Churches with-in his Majesty's Dominions, and all other Places needful.
2. That his Majesty, according to the laudable Example of his Royal Father of happy Memory, may be pleased to swear and sign the late solemn League and Covenant; and that an Act of Parliament be passed in both Kingdoms respectively, for enjoining the taking thereof by all the Subjects of the three Kingdoms and the Ordinances concerning the Manner of taking the same in both Kingdoms, be confirmed by Acts of Parliaments respectively, with such Penalties, as by mutual Advice of both Kingdoms, shall be agreed upon.
3. That the Bill be passed for the utter abolishing, and taking away of all Archbishops, Bishops, their Chancellors and Commissaries, Deans and Sub-Deans, Deans and Chapters, Arch-Deacons, Canons and Prebendaries; and all Chanters, Chancellors, Treasurers, Sub-Treasurers, Succentors and Sacrists; and all Vicars-Choral and Choristers; old Vicars and new Vicars of any Cathedral or Collegiate Church; and all other their Under-Officers, out of the Church of England, and Dominion of Wales, and out of the Church of Ireland, with such Alterations concerning the Estates of Prelates, as shall agree with the Articles of the late Treaty, of the Date at Edinburgh, 29 of Novemb 1643, and joint Declaration of both Kingdoms.
5. That Reformation of Religion, according to the Covenant, be settled by Act of Parliament, in such Manner as both Houses shall agree upon after Consultation had with the Assembly of Divines; and forasmuch as both Kingdoms are mutually obliged by the said Covenant, to endeavour the nearest Conjunction and Uniformity in matters of Religion, that such Unity and Uniformity in Religion, according to the Covenant, as after Consultation had with the Divines of both Kingdoms, now assembled, shall be jointly agreed on by both Houses of the Parliament of England, and by the Church and Kingdom of Scotland, be confirmed by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdoms respectively.
6. That for the more effectual disabling Jesuits, Priests, Papists, and Popish Recusants, from disturbing the State, and deluding the Laws, and for the better discovering and speedy Conviction of Recusants, an Oath be established by Act of Parliament, to be adminstred to them, wherein they shall abjure and renounce the Pope's Supremacy, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Worshipping of the Consecrated Host, Crucifixes and Images, and all other Popish Superstitions and Errors; and refusing the said Oath, being tendred in such Manner as shall be appointed by the said Act, to be sufficient Conviction in Law of Recusancy.
8. An Act for the true levying of the Penalties against them, which Penalties to be levyed and disposed in such manner as both Houses shall agree on, wherein to be provided that his Majesty shall have no less.
9. That an Act be passed in Parliament, whereby the Practices of Papists against the State may be prevented, and the Laws against them duly executed, and a stricter Course taken to prevent the saying or hearing of Mass in the Court, or any other part of this Kingdom.
And to the Bill for the suppression of Innovations in Churches and Chappels, in and about the Worship of God, and for the better advancement of the preaching of God's holy Word in all parts of this Kingdom;
And to such Act or Acts for raising of Monies, for the payment and satisfying of the publick Debts and Damages of the Kingdom, and other publick uses as shall hereafter be agreed on by both Houses of Parliament.
And to an Act or Acts of Parliament, for taking away the Court of Wards and Liveries, and all Wardships, Liveries, Primer seisins, and Ouster les maynes and all other charges incident or arising for, or by reason of Wardship, Livery Primer seisin, or Oust les Maines.
And for the taking away all Tenures by homage, and all Fines, Licenses, Seisures, and Pardons for Alienation, and all other charges incident thereunto, and for turning of all Tenures by Knights service, either of his Majesty or others, or by Knights service, or soccage in Capite, of his Majesty, into free and common Soccage: And that his Majesty will please to accept, in recompence hereof, One hundred thousand pounds per Annum;
And give assurance of his consenting in the Parliament of Scotland, to an Act ratifying the Acts of Convention of the Estates of Scotland, called by the Council and Conservatory of Peace, and the Commissioners for the common Burthen, and assembled the 22d day of June, 1643. and several times continued since in such manner, and with such additions, and other Acts, as the Estates convened in this present Parliament shall think convenient.
1. That the Persons who shall expect no Pardon, be only these following, RUPERT and MAURICE, Count Palatines of the Rhine, James Earl of Derby, John Earl of Bristol, William Earl of Newcastle, Francis Lord Cottington, John Lord Pawlet, George Lord Digby, Edward Lord Littleton, William Laud Archbishop of Canterbury Matthew Wren, Bishop of Ely, Sir Robert Heath, Knight, Doctor Bramhall Bishop of Derry, Sir John Byron Knight, William Widdrington, Colonel George Goring, Henry Jermin Esq; Sir Ralph Hopton, Sir Francis Doddington, M. Endimion Porter, Sir George Ratcliffe, Sir Marmaduke Langdale, Sir John Hotham, Captain John Hotham his Son, Sir Henry Vauhan, Sir Francis Windebanke, Sir Richard Greenvile, Mr.Edward Hyde, Sir John Marley, Sir Nicholas Cole, Sir Thomas Riddle, Junior, Colonel Ware, Sir John Strangeways, Sir John Culpeper Sir Richard Floyd, John Bodvile, Esq; M. David Jenkins, Sir George Strode, Sir Alexander Carrew, Marquess of Huntley Earl of Montrosse, Earl of Niddisdail, Earl of Traquayre, Earl of Carnewarth, Viscount of Aubeyne, Lord Ogleby, Lord Rae, Lord Harris, Lodgwick Lindsey sometime Earl of Crawford, Patrick Ruthen sometime Earl of Forth, James King sometime Lord Ethyn, Iring younger of Drunim, Gordon younger of Right, Lesley of Auchintoule, Sir Robert Spotwood of Dumipace, Colonel John Cockram, Mr, John Maxwell, sometime pretended Bishop of Rosse, M.Walter Balcanqual; and all such others, as being processed by the Estates of Treason, shall be condemned before the Act of Oblivion be passed.
4. That Humphrey Bennet, Esquire, Sir Edward Ford, Sir John Penruddock, Sir George Vaughan, Sir John Weld, Sir Robert Lee, Sir John Pate, John Ackland, Edmund Windham, Esquires, Sir John Fitzbert, Sir, Edward Laurence, Sir Ralph Dutton, Henery Lingen, Esq; Sir William Russell of Worcestershire, Thomas Lee of Addinton, Esq; Sir John Gorlington, Sir Paul Neal, Sir William Thorold, Sir Edward Hussey, Sir Tho. Lyddell Senior, Sir Philip Musgrave, Sir John Digby of Nottingham, Sir Hen. Fletcher, Sir Richard Minshall, Laurence Halsted, John Denham, Esquires, Sir Edward Fortescue, Peter St. Hill, Esq; Sir Thomas Tildesley, Sir Henry Griffith, Michael Wharton Esq; Sir Henry Spiller, Sir George Benion, Sir Edward Nicholas, Sir Edward Walgrove, Sir Edward Bishop, Sir Robert Owstey, Sir John Maney, Lord Cholmely, Sir Thomas Acton, Sir Lewis Dives, Sir Peter Osborne, Samuel Thornton, Esq; Sir John Lucas, John Blomey, Esq; Sir Thomas Chedle, Sir Nicholas Kemish, and Hugh Llyod, Esq; and all such of the Scottish Nation, as have concurred in the Votes at Oxford against the Kingdom of Scotland and their proceedings, or have Sworn or Subscribed the Declaration against the Convention and Covenants, and all such as have assisted the Rebellion in the North or the Invasion in the South of the said Kingdom of Scotland, or the late Invasion made there by the Irish and their Adherents; and that the Members of either House of Parliament, who have not only deserted the Parliament, but have also been voted by both Kingdoms Traytors, may be removed from his Majesty's Counsels, and be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court, and that they may not without the advice and consent of both Kingdoms, bear any Office, or have any Employment concerning the State or Commonweath. And also, that the Members of either House of Parliament, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, and not render'd themselves before the last of October, 1644. may be removed from his Majesty's Counsels, and be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court, and that they may not, without the advice and consent of both Houses of Parliament, bear any Office, or have any Employ concerning the State or Commonwealth: And in case any of them shall offend therein, shall be guilty of High Treason, and incapable of any Pardon by his Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed as both Houses of Parliament in England, or the Estates of the Parliament in Scotland, respectively shall think fit.
5. That by Act of Parliament, all Judges and Officers towards the Law Common or Civil, who have deserted the Parliament and adhered to the Enemies thereof, be made incapable of any place of Judicature or Office, towards the Law common or Civil: And that all Serjeants, Counsellors and Attorneys, Doctors, Advocates and Proctors, of the Law Common or Civil, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, be made incapable of any practice in the Law Common or Civil, either in publick or private. And that they, and likewise all Bishops, Clergymen, and other Ecclesiastical Persons, who have deserted the Parliament, and adhered to the Enemies thereof, shall not be capable of any Preferment or Employment, either in Church or Commonwealth, without the Advice and Consent of both Houses of Parliament.
8. A third part in full value of the Estates of the Persons made incapable of any Employment, as aforesaid, to be employed for the payment of the publick Debts and Damages, according to the Declaration.
9. And likewise a tenth part of the Estates of all other Delinquents within the joynt Declarations; and in case the Estates and Proportions aforementioned, shall not suffice for the payment of the publick Engagements, whereunto they are only to be employed, that then a new Proportion may be appointed by the joynt advice of both Kingdoms, providing, it exceed not the one moyety of the Estates of the Persons made incapable, as aforesaid, and that it exceed not a sixth part of the Estate of the other Delinquents.
10. That the Persons and Estates of all common Soldiers and others of the Kingdom of England, who in Lands or Goods be not worth 200 l. Sterling; and the Persons and Estates of all common Soldiers, and others of the Kingdom of Scotland, who in Lands or Goods be not worth 100 l. Sterling, be at liberty and discharged.
11. That an Act be passed whereby the Debts of the Kingdom and the Persons of Delinquents, and the value of their Estates may be known; and which Act shall appoint in what manner the Confiscations and Proportions beforemention'd, may be levyed and applyed to the discharge of the said Eengagements 12.
12. That an Act be passed in the Parliament of both Kingdoms respectively, for Confirmation of the Treaties passed betwixt the two Kingdoms, (viz.) The large Treaties, the late Treaty for the coming of the Scots Army into England, and settling of the Garrison of Berwick of the 29th of November, 1643. and the Treaty concerning Ireland of the 6th of August, 1642. with all their Ordinances and Proceedings passed betwixt the two Kingdoms, in purfuance of the said Treaties.
13. That an Act of Parliament be passed to make void the Cessation of Ireland, and all Treaties with the Rebels, without consent of both Houses of Parliament, and to settle the prosecution of the War of Ireland in both Houses of Parliament, to be manag'd by the joynt advice of both Kingdoms; and the King to assist, and to do no Act to discountenance or molest them therein.
14. That an Act be passed in the Parliament of both Kingdoms respectively, for establishing the joynt Declaration of both Kingdoms, bearing date the 30th of January, 1643. in England, and 1644. in Scotland, with the qualifications ensuing.
15. That by Act of Parliament the Subjects of the Kingdom of England, may be appointed to be Armed, Trained and Disciplined in such manner as both Houses shall think fit, the like for the Kingdom of Scotland, in such manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.
16. That an Act of Parliament be passed for the settling the Admiralty and Forces at Sea, and for the raising of such Monies for maintenance of the said Forces, and of the Navy, as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit; the like for the Kingdom of Scotland, in such manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.
17. An Act for the settling of all Forces both by Sea and Land, in Commissioners to be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, of Persons of known Integrity, and such as both Kingdoms may confide in, for their faithfulness to Religion, and Peace of the Kingdoms of the House of Peers, and of the House of Commons, who shall be removed or altered from time to time as both Houses shall think fit; and when any shall die, others to be nominated in their Places by the said Houses; Which Commissioners shall have Power,
1. To suppress any Forces raised without Authority of both Houses of Parliament, or in the intervals of Parliaments, without Consent of the said Commissioners, to the disturbance of the publick Peace of the Kingdoms, and to suppress any Foreign Forces that shall invade this Kingdom, and that it shall be high Treason in any who shall levy any Force without such Authority or Consent, to the disturbance of the publick Peace of the Kingdom, any Commission under the Great Seal, or Warrant to the contrary notwithstanding, and they to be incapable of any Pardon, from him his Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed of as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit.
3. To have Power to send part of themselves so as they exceed not a third part, or not be under the Number of to reside in the Kingdom of Scotland, to Assist and Vote as single Persons with the Commissioners of Scotland, in those matters wherein the Kingdom of Scotland is only concerned: So for the Kingdom of Scotland.
2. To prevent the violation of the Articles of Peace, as aforesaid, or any troubles arising in the Kingdoms by breach of the said Articles, and to hear and determine all differences that may occasion the same according to the Treaty, and to do further according as they shall respectively receive Instructions from both Houses of Parliament of England, or the Estates of the Parliament in Scotland, and in the intervals of Parliaments, from the Commissioners for the preservation of the publick Peace.
3. To raise and joyn the Forces of both Kingdoms to resist all Foreign Invasion and to suppress any Forces raised within any of the Kingdoms, to the disturbance of the publick Peace of the Kingdoms, by any Authority under the Great Seal, or other Warrant whatsoever without consent of both Houses of Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, of the said Commissioners of that Kingdom whereof they are Subjects; and that in those cases of joynt Concernment to both Kingdoms, the Commissioners to be directed to be there all, or such part as aforesaid, to act and direct as joynt Commissioners of both Kingdoms.
19. That by Act of Parliament all Peers, made since the Day that Edward Lord Littleton, then Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, deserted the Parliament, and that the said Great Seal was surreptitiously convey'd away from the Parliament being the 21st day of May, 1642. And who shall be hereafter made, shall not Sit or Vote in the Parliament of England, without Gonsent of both Houses of Parliament, and that all Honour and Title conferr'd on any, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament, since the 20th day of May, 1642. being the day that both Houses declared, That the King, seduced by evil Counsel, intended to raise War against the Parliament, be declared null and void. The like for the Kingdom of Scotland, those being excepted whose Patents were passed the Great Seal before the 4th of June, 1644.
20. That by Act of Parliament the Deputy or chief Governour, or other Governours of Ireland, be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, or in the intervals of Parliament by the Commissioners, to continue during the pleasure of the said Houses, or in the intervals of Parliament during the pleasure of the aforementioned Commissioners, to be approv'd or disallow'd by both Houses at their next sitting. And that the Chancellor or Lord Keeper, Lord Treasurer, Commissioners of the Great Seal or Treasury, Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, Chancellors of the Exchequer and Dutchee, Secretaries of State, Judges of both Benches and of the Exchequer of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, to continue quam diu se bene gesserint, and in the intervals of Parliament by the aforementioned Commissioners to be approved or disallowed by both Houses as their next sitting; the like for the Kingdom of Scotland, adding the Justice General, and in such a manner as the States in Parliament there shall think fit.
21. That by Act of Parliament the Education of your Majesty's Children and the Children of your Heirs and Successors be in the true Protestant Religion, and that their Tutors and Governor be of known Integrity, and be chosen by the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, or in the intervals of Parliaments, by the aforenamed Commissioners to be approved or disallowed by both Parliaments at their next sitting. And that if they be Male, they be Married to such only as are of the true Protestant Religion, if they be Females, they may not be married but with the advice and consent of both Parliaments, or in the intervals of Parliament, of their Commissioners.
22. That your Majesty will give your Royal assent to such ways and means as the Parliaments of both Kingdoms shall think sitting for the uniting the Protestant Princes, and for the entire Restitution and Re-establishment of Charles Lodwick Prince Elector Palatine, his Heirs and Successors, to his Electoral Dignity, Rights and Dominions, provided that this extend not to Prince Rupert, or Prince Maurice, or the Children of either of them, who have been the Instruments of so much Blood shed and Mischief against both Kingdoms.
23. That by Act of Parliament the concluding of Peace or War with Foreign Princes and States, be with advice and consent of both Parliaments, or in the intervals of Parliaments, by their Commissioners.
24. That an Act of Oblivion be passed in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms respectively, relative to the Qualifications in the Propositions aforesaid, concerning the joynt Declaration of both Kingdoms, with the exception of all Murderers, Thieves and other Offenders, not having relation to the War.
25. That the Members of both Houses of Parliament, or others, who have, during this Parliament, been put out of any Place or Office, Pension or Benefit, for adhering to the Parliament, may either be restored thereunto, or otherwise have Recompence for the same, upon the humble desire of both Houses of Parliament. The like for the Kingdom of Scotland.
27. That an Act be passed for the granting and confirming of the Charters, Customs, Liberties and Franchises of the City of London notwithstanding any Nonuser, Misuser or Abuser. That the Militia of the City of London, may be in the Ordering and Government of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons in Common Council assembled, or such as shall they from time to time appoint, whereof the Lord Mayor and Sheriffs for the time being to be there. And that the Militia of the Parishes without London, and the Liberties within the Weekly Bills of Mortality, may be under Command of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons in Common Council of the said City, to be ordered in such manner as shall be agreed on and appointed by both Houses of Parliament.
That the Citizens or Forces of London, shall not be drawn out of the City into any other parts of the Kingdom, without their own consent, and that the drawing of their Forces into other parts of the Kingdom in these distracted Times, may not be drawn into examples for the future.
And for prevention of Inconveniences, which may happen by the long intermission of Common Councils, It is desired that there be an Act, that all By-Laws and Ordinances already made or hereafter to be made by the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons in Common Council Assembled, touching, the calling, continuing, directing and regulating of the same, shall be as effectual in Law to all intents and purposes, as if the same were particularly enacted by the Authority of Parliament. And that the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons in Comon Council may add to, or repeal the said Ordinances from time to time as they shall see cause.
That such other Propositions as shall be made for the City for their farther Safety, Welfare and Government, and shall be approved of by both Houses of Parliament, may be granted and confirmed by Act of Parliament.
His Majesty hath seriously considered your Propositions, and finds it very difficult, in respect they import so great an alteration in Government, both in Church and State, to return a particular and positive Answer before a full Debate; wherein those Propositions, and all the necessary Explanations, and Reasons for assenting, diffenting, or qualifying, and all Inconveniences, and Mischiefs which may ensue, and cannot other wise be so well foreseen, may be discussed and weighed; his Majesty therefore proposeth and desireth, as the best expedient for Peace, that you will appoint such a Number of Persons as you shall think fit, to Treat with the like number of Persons to be appointed by his Majesty, upon the said Propositions, and such other things as shall be proposed by his Majesty, for the preservation and defence of the Protestant Religion (with due regard to the ease of tender Consciences, as his Majesty hath often offered) the Rights of the Crown, the Liberty and Property of the Subject, and the Priviledges of Parliament. And upon the whole matter to conclude a happy and blessed Peace.
May it please your Most Excellent Majesty,
Wee your Majesty's humble and Loyal Subjects of both Kingdoms, have considered of your Majesty's Message of the 13th of December, 1644. sent by the Duke of Richmond, and the Earl of Southampton, directed to the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and to the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland now at London. And do in all humbleness return this Answer.
That we do consent that there be a Treaty for a safe and well-grounded Peace: But find that it will require some time to resolve concerning the Instructions, and manner of that Treaty; And therefore, that your Majesty might not be held in suspence touching our readiness to make use of any opportunity for attaining such a blessed and happy Peace in all your Majesty's Dominions, We would not stay your Majesty's Messengers till we did resolve upon all those Particulars, which we will take into our serious Consideration, and present our humble desires to your Majesty with all convenient speed.
May it please Your Excellent Majesty,
We Your Majesty's Humble and Loyal Subjects the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, do make our further Answer to your Majesty's Message of the 13th of December last, 1644.
We do consent that there be a Treaty for a safe and well-grounded Peace between your Majesty and your humble and loyal Subjects assembled in the Parliament of both Kingdoms. And for the present have appointed Algeron Earl of Northumberland, Philip Earl of Pembrooke and Montgomery, William Earl of Salisbury, Basil Earl of Denbigh, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzil Hollis, William Pierpont, Sir Henry Vane Junior, Oliver St. John, Bulstrode Whitlock, John Crew, Edmond Prideaux, for the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster; And John Earl of Lowdon, Lord Chancellor of Scotland, Archibald Marquess of Argyle, John Lord Maitland, John Lord Belmerino, Sir Archibald Johnson, Sir Charles Ereskin, George Dundos, Sir John Smith, Mr. Hugh Kennedy, and Mr, Robert Barclay, for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, together with Master Alexander Henderson, upon the Propositions concerning Religion, who, or any Ten of them (there being always some of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms) are appointed and authorised to meet at Uxbridge on what day your Majesty shall be pleased to set down before the last day of this present January, with such Persons as your Majesty shall appoint under your Sign Manual for that purpose; And the Number of the Persons to Treat, not to exceed Seventeen on either Part, unless the Persons named for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland now not here, or any of them, shall come, and then your Majesty may have the like Number if you please. There to Treat upon the Matters contained in the Propositions we lately sent unto your Majesty; according to such Instructions as shall be given unto them; And the Propositions for Religion, the Militia and for Ireland, to be first Treated on and agreed, and the Time for the Treaty upon the said Propositions for Religion, the Militia, and for Ireland, not to exceed Twenty days, and for the things mentioned in your Message, to be propounded by your Majesty, when the Persons sent by your Majesty shall communicate the same to the Committees appointed by us as aforesaid, we have directed them to send the same to us, that they may receive our Instructions what to do therein. And to the end that the Persons that are to be sent from your Majesty and from us with their Retinue, not exceeding the Number of One Hundred and Eight on either Part, may repair to Uxbridge, stay there, and return at their pleasure without Interruption, That mutual safe Conducts be granted to the said Persons according to the several Lists of their Names
I am commanded by his Majesty to return this his Answer to the Message, lately sent him from the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, by Sir Peter Killegrew. I have likewise sent your Lordship his Majesty's safe Conduct for the Persons desired, and also a List of the Names of those his Majesty hath appointed to Treat, for whom, together with their Retinue, his Majesty hath desired a safe Conduct.
His Majesty having received a Message by Sir Peter Killegrew, from the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, concerning a Treaty, returns this Answer, That his Majesty doth very willingly consent that there be a Treaty upon the Matters contained in the Propositions lately sent unto him in such Manner as is proposed, and at the Place appointed in the said Message; and to that purpose, his Majesty will send the Duke of Richmond, the Marquess of Hertford, the Earl of Southampton, the Earl of Kingston, the Earl of Chichester, the Lord Capel, the Lord Seymour, the Lord Hatton, the Lord Culpeper, the Lord Caped, the Lord Seymour, the Lord Hatton, the Lord Culpeper, Secretary Nicholas, M.Chancellour of the Exchequer, the Lord Chief Baron Lane, Sir Orlando Bridgman, Sir Thomas Gardiner, Mr.John Ashburnham, Mr.Jeffrey Palmer, (together with Dr. Steward, Clerk of his Majesty's Closet, upon the Propositions concerning Religion,) to meet with the Persons mentioned in the said Message at Uxbridge on Wednesday Night the 29th of this Instant January, the Treaty to begin the next Day: Which Persons, or any Ten of them, shall be Sufficiently authorised by his Majesty to treat and conclude on his Majesty's Part. And to the end that the Persons aforesaid, and their Retinue, may repair to Uxbridge, stay there, and return at their pleasure without Interruption, or go or send during their Abode there, to his Majesty, as often as Occasion shall require; his Majesty desires that a safe Conduct may accordingly be sent for the said Persons and their Retinue, according to a Lift of their Names herewith sent.
I am commanded by his Majesty to send these inclosed Propositions to your Lordships, to be presented to the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, to the end that there may be as little Loss of Time as is possible, but that the same may be treated on as soon as may be thought convenient, after the entry upon the Treaty.
His Majesty's Propositions to the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, for a safe and well-grounded Peace.
2. That whatsoever hath been done or published contrary to the known Laws of the Land, or derogatory to his Majesty's legal and known Power and Rights, be renounced and recalled; that no Seed may remain for the like to spring out of for the future.
3. That whatsoever illegal Power hath been claimed or exercised by or over his Subjects, as Imprisoning or putting to Death their person without Law, stopping their Habeas Corpusses, and imposing upon their Estates without Act of Parliament, &c. either by both or either House, or any Committee of both or either, or by any Persons appointed by any of them, be disclaimed, and all such Persons so committed forthwith discharged.
4. That as his Majesty hath always professed his Readiness to that purpose, so he will most cheerfully consent to any good Acts to be made for the Suppression of Popery, and for the firmer settling of the Protestant Religion established by Law; as also that a good Bill may be framed for the better preserving of the Book of Common-Prayer from Scorn and Violence; and that another Bill may be framed for the Ease of tender Consciences, in such Particulars as shall be agreed upon. For all which his Majesty conceives the best Expedient to be, that a National Synod be legally called with all convenient Speed.
5. That all such Persons, as upon the Treaty shall be excepted, and agreed upon on either side out of the General Pardon, shall be tryed Per Pares, according to the usual course and known Law of the Land, and that it be left to that, either to acquit, or condemn them.
6. And to the intent this Treaty may not suffer Interruption by any intervening Accidents, That a Cessation of Arms, and free Trade for all his Majesty's Subjects may be agreed upon with all possible Speed.
I am commanded by both Houses of the Parliament of England, and desired by the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, to desire your Highness to let his Majesty know, That they do agree, that their Committees do begin the Treaty at Uxbridge on Thursday the 30th of this January, with the Person appointed by his Majesty on the Matters contained in the Propositions lately sent unto his Majesty in such Manner as was proposed. And their Committees shall have Instructions concerning the Propositions sent from his Majesty in your Highness's Letter. And you will herewith receive a safe Conduct from the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England, for the Persons that are appointed by his Majesty to come to Uxbridge, to treat on the Propositions for a safe and well-grounded Peace, with their Retinue in a List hereunto annexed. Sir I am
Thursday the 30th of January, all the Commissioners named by his Majesty, and Commissioners named by the two Houses of Parliament in England, and the Estates of the Parliament in Scotland, did meet at Uxbridge, where their Commissions were mutually delivered in, and read, and are as followeth.
His MAJESTY's Commission.
Whereas after several Messages sent by us to the Lords and Commons of Parliament assembled at Westminster, expressing our desires of Peace, certain Propositions were sent from them, and brought unto Us at Oxford, in November last by the Earl of Denbigh and others, and upon Our Answers, Messages and Propositions to them, and their Returns to Us, it is now agreed, That there shall be a Treaty for a safe and well grounded Peace, to begin at Uxbridge on Thursday the 30th of this Instant January, as by the said Propositions, Answers Messages and Returns in writing may more fully appear. We do therefore hereby appoint, assign and constitute, James Duke of Richmond, and Lenox William Marquess of Hertford, Thomas Earl of Southampton, Henry Earl of Kingston, Francis Earl of Chichester, Francis Lord Seymour, Arthur Lord Capel, Christopher Lord Hattone, John Lord Culpeper, Sir Edward Nicholas, Knight, one of our Principal Secretaries of State, Sir Edward Hyde, Knight, Chancellor and Under Treasurer of Our Exchequer, Sir Richard Lane, Chief Baron of Our said Exchequer, Sir Thomas Gardiner, Sir Orlando Bridgman, Mr.John Ashburnham, and Mr.Jeffery Palmer, (together with Doctor Richard Steward, upon these Propositions concerning Religion) to be Our Commissioners touching the Premisses. And do hereby give unto them, and to any Ten or more of them, full Power and Authority to meet, and on Our part to Treat with Algernoun Earl of Northumberland, Philip Earl Pembroke and Montgomery, William Earl of Salisbury, Basil Earl of Denbigh, Thomas Lord Viscount Henman, Denzil Hollis, William Pierpont, Esquires, Sir Henry Vane the younger, Knight, Oliver St John, Bulstrode Whitlock, John Crew and Edmond Prideaux, Esquires, for the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England, at Westminster; and John Earl of Lowdon, Lord Chancellor of Scotland, Archibald Marquess of Argile, John Lord Maitland, John Lord Bolmerino, Sir Archibald Johnston, Sir Charles Erskine, George Dundas, Sir John Smith, Mr.Hugh Kennedy, and Mr.Robert Barclay, for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, (together with Mr Alexander Henderson, upon the Propositions concerning Religion) or with any Ten or more of them, upon and touching the matters contained in the said Propositions, Answers, and Messages, or any other, according to the Manner and Agreement therein specified, or otherwise as they or any Ten, or more of them, shall think fit, and to take all the Premisses into their serious Considerations, and to compose, conclude. and end all differences arising thereupon, or otherwise, as they, or any Ten or more of them in their Wisdoms shall think fit; and upon the whole matter to conclude a safe and well grounded Peace, if they can; And whatsoever they or any Ten or more of them, shall do in the Premisses, We do by these presents ratify and confirm the same.
Be it Ordained by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament; That Algernoun Earl of Northumberland, Philip Earl of Pembroke and Mongo mery, William Earl of Salisbury, Bazil Earl of Denbigh Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzil Hollis, William Pierepont, Sir Henry Vane, Junior, Oliver St John, Bulstrode Whitlock, John Crew, and Edmond Prideaux, shall have Power and Authority, and are hereby authorised to joyn with the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, together with Alexander Henderson, upon the Propositions concerning Religion only, to Treat with the Lord Duke of Richmond, Marquess of Hertford, the Earl of Southampton, the Earl of Kingston, the Lord Dunsmore, Lord Capel, Lord Seymour, Sir Christopher Hatton, Sir John Culpeper, Sir Edward Nicholas, Sir Edward Hide, Sir Richard Lane, Sir Orlando Bridgman, Sir Thomas Gardiner, Mr. John Ashurnham, Mr. Jeffery Palmer, or any Ten of them, upon the Propositions formerly sent to his Majesty (for a safe and well-grounded Peace) from his Majesty's Humble and Loyal Subjects assembled in the Parliament of both Kingdoms, together with Dr. Steward, upon the Propositions concerning Religion only, and upon his Majesty's Propositions according to such Instructions as have been given to them, or as they from time to time shall receive from both Houses of Parliament.
At Edinburgh the saxteint day of Julii. The zier of God M. vjc. fourtie four ziers, The Estaistes of Parliament presontlie conveined be vertew of the last act of the last Parliament, haildin by his Majesty and thrie Estaites in Anno. 1641. Considering that this Kingdome after all uther means of supplicationnes, Remonstrances, and sending of Commissionaris to his Majesty, who have bein used without success, Did enter into a solemne League and Covenant, with the Kingdom and Parliament of England, for Reformatione and Defence of Religionne, the honor and happiness of the King, the Peace and Safety of the thrie Kingdoms, of Scotland, England, and Ireland. And ane Treattie aggried upon, and one Armie and Forces raised and sent out of yis Kingdom for these endis. Quhairupon the Conventionne of Estaites of this Kingdome, the nynt of January last, being desirous to use all good and lawful meanes, that Treuth and Peace might be established in all his Majesties Dominions, with such a blessed Pacificationne betwixt his Majesty and his Subjectis, as might serve most for his Majesties trew honor, and the safety and happines of his People; Granted Commissionne to John Erle of Lowdounne, heigh Chancellor of Scotland, Johne Lord Maitland, than and zit in England, Sir Archibald Johnstounne of Wariestounne, ane of the Lords of Sessionne, and Maister Robert Barclay now in England, to repair to England, with Power to thame, or any twa of yame, to endeavoure the effectuating of the foirsaides endis, conforme to the Commissione and Iustructions than giving to thame, as the Commissione of the dait forsaid Proportis. Lyke as the saides Johne Lord of Maitland, Sir Archibald Johnstoune, and Maister Robert Barclay have evir since attendit in England, in the discharge of the foirsaid Commissione. Quinhil lately that Sir Archibal Johnstoune returned with some Propositiones, prepaired by the Committie of both Kingdomes, to be presented to the Estaites of Scotland, and to both howss of the Parliament of England, and by thame to be revised, and considderit, and than by mutual Advyse of both Kingdomes to be presented for ane safe and weill-grounded Peace. Qwhilkies Propositions are revistd, and considderit, and advysed be the Estaites of Parliament now conveined, and their sense and resultis drawin up yrupon. Whiche Commissione is to endure while the comming of the Commissionars underwrittin. And heeirwith also considerin, That the endis for the whilk the samen was granted, ar not zits effectuate; and that the Propositiones with ye Estaites their resultis yrupon ar to be returned to ye Parliament of England, Thairfore the Estaites of Parliament be thir representis gives full Power and Commissione to the said Johne Erl of Lowdonne, Lord heigh Chancellor of yis Kingdome, Archibald Marqueis of Argyle, and John Lord Balmerino, for the Nobilitys Sir Archibald Johnstoune of Wariestonne, Sir Charles Erskyne of Cambuuskenneth, and Maister George Dundas of Manner, for the Barones, Sir Johne Smyth of Grottel Proviest of Edenburgh, Hugh Kennedy Burges of Air, and Maister Robert Barclay for the Burrowes (the thrie Estates of yis Kingdom) and to John Lord Maitland supernumerarie in this Commissione, or to any thrie or mae of the haill Number, thair being ane of ilk Estate as Commissionaris from the Estaites of Parliament of this Kingdome, to repaire to the Kingdome of England (sick of them as ar not thair already) and with Powar to thame or any thrie or mae of the whole Number, thair being ane of ilk Estaite, to endeavour the effectuaitng of ye forsaides endis, the concluding of the Propositions with the Estates thaire result thairupon; And all suche uyr matteris concerning the good of bothe Kingdoms, as ar or shall be from time to time committed unto thame be the Estaites of yis Kingdome or Committies thairof, according to the Instructiones givin, or to be givin, to the Commissionaris abovenameit, or their quuorums. And for this effect, The Estaites Ordeanes, John Erle of Lowdonne, Chanceller, John Lord Balmerino, Sir Archibald Johnstounne of Wariestoune, Sir Charles Erkyne of Cambuskenneth, and Hugh Kenedy, repair with all diligence to the Kingdom of England, to the effect before rehearsit conforme to this Commissione and Instructions As also the Estaites Ordeanes ye saides Archibald Marquess of Argyle, M. George Dundas of Maner, and Sir Johne Smyth Proveist of Edenburgh, to repaire to ye Kingdome of England with all sick convenience as occasion of the businesse shall require, or as they shall be cammandit, ather be the Committie from the Parliament heir, they being in Scotland, or be the Committie with the Army, they being in England. And Ordeanes thame to joyne with the ramanent Commissionallis to the effect above mentionat, conforme to the Commissione and Instructions givin, or to be givin to the Commissionaris or their quuorums their anent be the Estaites of this Kingdome or Committies yos, And the Estatites of Parliament, be thir presentis haldis and sall halde firme and stable, all and what summe evir thinges the Commissionaris obovanameit, or any thrie or mae of thame sall doe, consorme to this Commissione, and to the Instructions given, or to be given to thame. Extractit further of the buikes of Parliament, be me Sir Alexander Gibsone of Duurie, Knyt, Clerk of his Majesty's Register and Rossis, under my sign and subscriptionne Manuall,,
'We are directed by our Instructions, to treat with your Lordships upon the Propositions concerning Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, three days a Piece (alternis vicibus) during the space of Twenty days, from the 30th of January, beginning first with the Propositions of Religion, and accordingly we shall deliver unto your Lordships a Paper to morrow Morning upon those Propositions.
Accordingly the Treaty did proceed upon those subjects three days a Piece (Alternis vicibus (beginning with that of Religion upon Friday the last of January, and so continuing Saturday the first, and Monday the third of February, which was after resumed, Tuesday the 11th, Wednesday the 12th, and Thursday the 13th of February, and again the two last days of the 20th; And the like Course was held touching the Militia and Ireland.
But because the Messages concerning each subject severally will be more clearly understood, being collected and disposed together under their several heads, therefore all those which concern Religion, the Militia, and Ireland, are put together. And in like manner the Passages preparatory to the Treaty; concerning the Commissions, the manner of the Treaty, and a feditious Sermon made the first day appointed for the Treaty; and such as hapened in the Treaty touching his Majesty's Propositions; the demands of farther time to treat, and other emergent passages which have no relation to those of Religion, the Militia and Ireland, are in like manner digested under their several heads, with their particular dates.
'We having perused the Power granted to your Lordships, in the Paper, delivered by the Earl of Northumberland, and finding the same to relate to Instructions, we desire to fee those Instructions, that thereby we may know what Power is granted to you; and we ask this the rather, because by the Powers we have seen, we do not find that your Lordships, in the absence of any one of your Number, have Power to Treat.
'By our Instructions we, or any Ten of us, whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England, and some of the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, to be present, have Power to Treat with your Lordships.
'Whereas your Lordships have expressed unto us a desire of seeing our Instructions, to know what Power is granted us; and this the rather because you say you find not by what you have seen, that in the absence of any one of our Number, we have Power to Treat. To this we return in answer, That since the Paper already delivered in by us, declaring, that by our Instructions any Ten of us, whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England, and some of the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland to be present, had Power to treat with your Lordships, hath not given your satisfaction in the particular of the Quorum, we shall send unto the two Houses of Parliament, to have the Quorum inserted in the Commission, and do expect the return of it so amended, within two or three days, when we shall present it unto your Lordships. But as for your desire in general, to see our Instructions, it is that for which we have no Warrant, nor is it, as we conceive, at all necessary or proper for us so to do, for that the Propositions upon which we now Treat, have been already presented from the Parliaments of both Kingdoms unto his Majesty, and whatsoever is propounded by us in order unto them, is sufficiently warranted by what both Parliaments have done in the passing and sending of those Propositions, and by the Commissions authorising us to Treat upon them, already shewn unto your Lordships, so as there can be no need to shew any other Power.
'Be it Ordain'd by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Algernon Earl of Northumberland, Philip Earl of Pembroke and Montgomery, William Earl of Salisbury, Bazil Earl of Denbigh, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzil Hollis, William Pierepoint, Sir Henry Vane Junior, Oliver St.John, Bulstrode Whitlock, John Crew, and Edmond Prideaux, shall have Power and Authority and are hereby Authoris'd to joyn with the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, together with Alexander Henderson, upon the Propositions concerning Religion only, or any Ten of them, whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England, and some of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, are to be present, to Treat with the Lord Duke of Richmond, the Marquess of Hertford, the Earl of Southampton, the Earl of Kingston, the Lord Dunsmore, Lord Capel, Lord Seymour, Sir Christopher Hatton, Sir John Culpeper, Sir Edward Nicholas, Sir Edward Hyde, Sir Richard Lane, Sir Orlando Bridgeman, Sir Thomas Gardiner, Mr.John Ashburnham, and Mr.Jeffery Palmer, or any Ten of them, upon the Propositions formerly sent to his Majesty (for a safe and well grounded Peace) from his Majesty's Humble and Loyal Subjects assembl'd in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, together with Dr.Steward, upon the Propositions concerning Religion only; and upon his Majesty's Propositions, according to such Instructions as have been given to them, or as they from time to time shall receive from both Houses of Parliament.
'Having considered your Commission and Power from his Majesty given in last Night by your Lordships, we find that you are authorised to treat only upon certain Propositions sent to his Majesty from the Lords and Commons of Parliament Assembled at Westminster, and upon his Majesty's Answers, Messages, and Propositions to them, and their Returnsto his Majesty; wherein we observe, that the Propositions sent to his Majesty, from his Majesty's Loyal Subjects Assembled in the Parliaments of both his Kingdoms, are mentioned to be sent to his Majesty, from the Lords and Commons of Parliament Assembled at Westminster, and upon his Majesty's Answers, Messages, and Propositions to them and their Returns to his Majesty, that a Treaty is to begin. And wherein we also observe you have no Power thereby to Treat upon the Propositions sent to his Majesty from his Humble and Loyal Subjects, Assembled in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, and the Answers, Messages, and Propositions sent from his Majesty to the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and the Commissioner of the Parliament of Scotland then at London, and their Return to his Majesty. We desire those defects may be cleared and speedily amended.
We conceive our Power being to Treat upon the Propositions brought by the Earl of Denbigh, and others, and those Propositions being sent from the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, there needs no mention of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms in that place, but that our Power is ample to Treat with your Lordships upon the whole, both by express Words, and by other general Words in the Commission, which give Power to Treat upon those Propositions, or any other; which general Words are not observed by your Lordships in your Paper; And our Power is to Treat with the Lords and others, authorised for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland by Name; yet since that you insist upon it, it shall be altered by the Tuesday next. And in the mean time (if your Lordships please) we desire (fn. 1) the Papers promised Yesterday, in the Paper delivered by the Earl of Northumberland, may be delivered unto us, that there may be as little loss of time as may be.
'In Answer to your Lordship's Paper, concerning your Power to Treat, we are content to proceed in the Treaty with your Lordships, in expectation that the Defects mentioned by using our Paper, shall be supplied by Tuesday next.
Whereas certain Propositions were sent unto us from the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster, and from the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, which were brought unto us at Oxford, in November last, by the Earl of Denbigh, and others, and upon our Answers, &c. as followeth verbatim, in his Majesty's former Commission.
Touching the manner of the Treaty: The KING's Commissiners Paper. 31 Jan.
We desire, to the end there may be a greater freedom in Debate (which we conceive will much conduce to the happy conclusion of this Treaty) that nothing may be understeod to be concluded on either side, but what isdelivered in Writing, according as your Lordships have begun. And we declare, That what shall be delivered in Writing upon any Proposition, is not to be binding or prejudicial to either Party, if the Treaty break off upon any other Proposition, or part of any other Proposition.
We desire a full Answer of our Paper, that nothing shall be taken as agreed upon, but what is put in Writing, and your Concurrence in declaring that what shall be delivered in Writing upon any Propostion, or upon part of a Proposition, shall not be binding or prejudical to either Party, if the Treaty break off.
According to our former Paper, we shall deliver our Demands and Answers in Writing and we desire your Lordships to do the like, and nothing shall be taken as agreed upon, but what is put in Writing. And we shall acquaint the Houses of Parliament, that you have declared what shall be delivered in Writing upon any Proposition, or upon any Part of a Proposition, as not to be binding or prejudicial to either Party, if the Treaty break off.
In Answer to your Lordships's Paper formerly delivered, we do declare, that what shall be delivered in Writing upon any Proposition, or upon any part of Propositions not to be binding or prejudicial to either Party, if the Treaty break off upon any other Propositions, or part of any Proposition.
We have certain Information from divers Persons present in Uxbridge Church Yesterday, that there was then a Sermon preached by one Mr.Love, in which were many Passages very Scandalous to his Majesty's Person, and derogatory to his Honour, stiring up the People against this Treaty, and incensing them against Us, telling them, That we come with Hearts full of Blood, and that there is as great Distance between this Treaty and Peace, as between Heaven and Hell, or Words to that effect; with divers other feditious Passages, both against his Majesty and his Treaty. We know his Majesty's hearty desire of a happy and well grounded Peace, such as may be for God's Honour, and the good of all his Subjects as well as himself; And we that are intrusted by his Commission, come with clear Intentions to serve him in it, according to our Consciences and the best of our Judgments. And this being Preached in your Quarters, where we are now under safe Conduct, We desire your Lordships to consider, how much this may reflect upon our Safety, how much it may prejudice and blast the blessed hopes of this Treaty, and how just Offence and Distrust it may beget in his Majesty. And therefore we desire Justice against the Man that he may have exemplary Punishment.
'To the Paper delivered in by your Lordships this Day, concerning the Information received of several scandalous Passages preached in a Sermon in Uxbridge Church, by one Mr. Love, we do return this Answer, That the said Mr. Love is none of our Retinue, nor came hither by any Privity of ours; That we conceive it most reasonable and agreeable to the Business we are now upon, that all just Occasions of Offence on either part be avoided; And as it hath been our Desire, so it shall be our Endeavour, to take the best Care we can to prevent all Prejudices upon the present Treaty which may blast the blessed Hopes thereof, or may beget any just Offence and Distrust in his Majesty, and shall be as tender of the Safety of your Lordships Persons, according to the safe Conduct, as of our own. We shall represent your Lordships Paper concerning this Business (if your Lordships so desire) unto the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England, who will proceed therein according to Justice.
We insist upon our former desire concerning the Sermon preached by Mr. Love, and must refer the way of doing Justice to your Lordships; and if your Lordships are not satisfied that such Words as we have charged him with were spoken by him, we are ready to produce our proof thereof to your Lordships.
'According to the (fn. 2) Paper delivered by us to your Lordships Yesternight, we do now offer these Propositions following which concern Religion.
'That the Directory for publick Worship, already passed both Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Propositions concerning Church-Government, hereunto annexed and passed both Houses, be enacted as a part of Reformation of Religion, and Uniformity according to the fifth Proposition.
Having considered your Lordships Paper, containing the Propositions concerning Religion, with the Paper annexed, and finding the same to contain absolute Alterations in the Government both of Ecclesiastical and Civil State; We desire to know whether your Lordships have Power to treat and debate upon the said Propositions, and upon Debate to recede from, or consent to any Alterations in the said Propositions, if we shall make it appear to be reasonable so to do, or whether your Lordships are bound up, by your Instructions, to insist upon the Propositions without any Alteration.
'Our Paper given in to your Lordships, concerning Religion, doth contain no Alterations, but such as are usual in a time of Reformation, and by the Wisdom of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms are judged necessary at this time, for settling Religion and Peace. And as by our Commissions and Papers, formerly shewed your Lordships, we have made known our Power to treat upon them; so are we ready, by Debate, to shew how reasonable they are: And that there will be no reason to expect that we should alter or recede from them. But as for your Demand of our shewing what further Power we have by our Instructions, it is that we have no Warrant to do, as we have already signified to your lordships by a former Paper.
Your Lordships first Proposition in the Paper concerning Religion, referring to the third Proposition sent to his Majesty, we find that refers to the Articles of the late Teaty of the Date at Edinburgh, 29 Nov. 1643, and to the joint Declaration of both Kingdoms. We desire your Lordships we may see those Articles and Declarations, and your Lordships second Proposition in that Paper, referring to the ordinances concerning the calling and fitting of the Assembly of Divines; We desire to see those Ordinances.
'According to your Lordships Desire in (fn. 3) third Paper, we now deliver in the Articles of the late Treaty of the Date at Edinburgh, 29 of November 1643, and the (fn. 4) joint Declaration of both Kingdoms; And we shall speedily deliver to your Lordships the Ordinances concerning the calling and fitting of the Assembly of Divines.
There are other things touching Religion to be propounded by us unto your Lordships, upon the Propostions formerly sent unto his Majesty from the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, which we shall in due time give in unto your Lordships; but we do first desire your Answer to the Paper touching Religion, given in yesterday, that some good Pogress may be made therein before the three Days, assigned to treat upon Religion in the first place, do expire.
We desire to know whether the Propositions we formerly received from your Lordships concerning Religion, were all that would be offered concerning that Subject, because we thought it very cecessary (since so great Alternations are proposed by you) to have a full view of the whole Alternations that are desired, since in an Argument of the greatest Weight, and highest Importance, we cannot possibly give a present Judgment of any part, till we have a prospect of the whole: But since your Lordships do not yet think it time to let us have a fight of the rest, but first desire our Answer to the (fn. 5) Paper delivered yesterday, which contains many Particulars, of which we never heard before, we shall apply our selves to understand the things proposed by you, in such Manners as we may return your Lordships a speedy Answer; and to that purpose must desire your Lordships Information in some Particulars, which are comprised in your Lordships Paper. And when your Lordships consider that the (fn. 6) Directory for Worship (being so long) was delivered to us but yesterday; That the Covenant, the Articles of the Treaty of Edinburgh, the Declaration of both Kingdoms (which are comprehended within the first Proposition) were delivered to us but this Day, and therefore we could return no answer concerning the Bill for abolishing Archbishops and Bishops (which is proposed to be passed) according to the third Proposition, in which the said Articles and Declarations are comprehended, and that the Ordinances for the fitting of the Assembly are not yet delivered unto us. We are confident your Lordships will not think us negligent in making as good a Progress in the Treaty upon Religion, as is in our Power, which we shall endeavour to advance with all Diligence, and the best of our Understanding.
Afterwards, the same first of February, the (fn. 6) Ordinances for the Assembly of Divines were delivered in.
After some Debate touching the Nature of the Church-Government, intended by the Paper annexed to the first Paper upon the subject of Religion, which are here before set down. The King's Commissioners delivered in this following Paper.
The Information we desire from your Lordships for the present, is, Whether, by the Words in the first of those Propositions in your Lordships Paper annexed (the respective Bounds of their Dwellings) you intend the several Bounds of their Dwelling-Houses, or the Bounds of Parishes; or whether you intend an Alteration of the Bounds of Parishes?
In the second Proposition, what other Church-Officers your Lordships intend shall join with the Ministers in the Government of the Church; and what Jurisdiction they shall exercise in order to that Government, and from whom they shall derive it, and in what Degree be subordinate to the Power from whom they derive it; and what you intend by Presbyterial Government, in your third Proposition.
How Synodical Assemblies, Provincial and National, shall be constitued as to Persons and Causes; and what shall be the Bounds and Limits of their Jurisdiction; and from whom the several Jurisdictions, above-mentioned, shall be derived.
To these Particulars we would be glad (if your Lordships think it fit) to receive Satisfaction by Debate, where Questions may be asked and Replies made, before any Answer be returned in Writing, which may ask much Time, and be less satisfactory, but we refer that to your Lordships.
'We cannot but be sensible of the great loss of Time, occasioned by your Lordships Questions for Information in your last Paper, and shall have small hopes of good success in this Treaty, having these two days made so little progress, unless your Lordships be pleased to give us full Answers to our Demands concerning Religion; yet to give all satisfaction, with as little expence of Time as may be, we are ready by present Conference, to clear the Questions in your Paper.
We conceive there was no cause your Lordships should apprehend any loss of Time, occasioned by our Questions, for that your Propositions concerning Religion were not delivered to us till Friday last: And the Directory, then delivered with them, so long, that the reading of it spent the residue of that day; and divers other Papers to which the Propositions referred, and without which we could not consider them, were not delivered us before yesterday, and some of them not till after the Paper, which imputes a delay to us; and your Lordships having Propounded only general heads of a Presbyterial Government, without any particular Model of it, which in several Reformed Churches (as we are informed) is various both in Names and Powers, it was necessary to understand the particular expressions in your Paper, the Alteration desired being so great, and being proposed to be Enacted, which will require his Majesty's consent, whom we ought to satisfy, having so great a Trust reposed in us. And we desire your Lordships to consider, how impossible it hath been for us to give your Lordships, in less than two days, a full answer (which in your last Paper you require) to what you propose, which is in effect to consent to the utter abolishing of that Government, Discipline, and publick Form of the Worship of God, which hath been practised and established by Law here, ever since the Reformation; and which we well understand, and the alteration of which, in the manner proposed, takes away many things in the Civil Government, and provides no remedy for the inconveniences which may happen thereby; and to consent to the Alienation of the Lands of the Church, by which (for ought appears) besides infinite other Considerations, so many Persons may be put to beg their Bread, to oblige his Majesty and all his Subjects to the taking a new Oath or Covenant, and to receive and consent to a new Covenant; we do not, nor, without Information, cannot understand. And which (in truth) appears to us, by your Lordships Propositions, not to be yet agreed upon in the Particulars. And your Lordships having declared to us, that you have other things to propose to us concerning Religion, which you do not yet think it fit time to acquaint us withal: Notwithstanding all which Difficulties, we shall proceed with all possible Expedition, and desire your Lordships will not object Delays to us, till we give you just Occasion.
That we may make a right use of the Information your Lordships were Pleased yesterday to afford us, in debate upon the Questions proposed by us concerning the Propositions in your Lordships Paper annexed, for the future Government of the Church and so have some understanding of that Government, intended by your Lordships, in place of that you propose to be abolished, we desire to receive your Lordships Answer in Writing, whether these short Collections upon the Debate Yesterday, be the Sum of your Lordships Resolutions or Informations upon the Questions formerly proposed by us.
- 1. That the Congregational Assemblies consist of the Ministers and Ruling Elders.
- 2. That the Classical Assemblies consist of many Congregational Assemblies.
- 3. That the Provincial Assemblies are constituted of the several Classical Assemblies.
- 4. That all these Congregational, Classical and Provincial Assemblies, together, constitute a National Assembly.
- 5. That the Authority and Jurisdiction of the several Assemblies shall be settled by Parliament.
We are ready, by present Conference, to enter upon Consideration of your Lordships first Proposition concerning Religion, and shall desire to receive or give Satisfaction, whereby we may be of one mind in that Argument. And for the better entring into this Debate, we desire to know whether in respect of Alternation mentioned in the third Proposition, to be made in the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy, you would have this individual Bill pass or not?
'We desire the Bill for the utter abolishing of Episcopacy, which no remains with his Majesty may be passed without prejudice to us, to insist upon the (fn. 7) Alterations mentioned in the third Proposition; and we are ready to give your Lordships a present Conference upon the first Proposition concerning Religion, according to your desire.
'We desire your Lordships Answer to our Demands upon the Propositions for Religion, and in the first Place to the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy, which hath been so much debated, that upon the expiring of the first three days, appointed to Treat concerning Religion, we may be able to return such an Account to the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, as may give them hopes of a happy Progress in this Treaty.
We conceive we have offered so weighty Doubts and Considerations to your Lordships in this Days Debate, concerning several Parts in the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy(for your Lordships have confined and limited our Debate to that individual Bill, as it is now penn'd, not to the Consideration of abolishing Episcopacy in general) that your Lordships cannot expect a positive Answer from us new (being after Eleven a Clock at Night) touching that Bill; but we shall be ready by the next Day assigned for the Treaty upon this Argument, to deliver our Opinions to your Lordships; the which we shall be then the better able to do, when we have found by the progress in our other Debates, how far a blessed and a happy Peace is like to be advanced, by our endeavouring to give your Lordships Satisfaction in this Particular.
'Having received no Satisfaction in the first three Days appointed to Treat upon the Propositions for Religion, we do now desire your Lordships clear and full Answer to our former Demand on this Subject, that no farther Time may be 'lost in a matter which doth so much concern the Glory of God, the Honour of the King, and the Peace and Happiness of his Kingdoms.
We gave your Lordships as much satisfaction in the first three days appointed to Treat upon the Propositions for Religion, as in so short a Time, and upon so little Information from your Lordships, could reasonably be expected, in a matter of so great and high importance; and as we have given your Lordships already (fn. 8) many reasons concerning the Injustice and Incoveniency which would follow upon passing the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy, according to your first Propositition, so we are now ready, by Conference, to satisfy your Lordships, why we conceive that the said Bill is not for the Glory of God, or the Honour of the King, and consequently cannot be for the Peace and Happiness of his Kingdoms; and if your Lordships Reasons shall convince us in those particulars, we shall willingly consent to what you desire; if otherwise, we shall offer to your Lord ships our Consent to such other Alterations, as we conceive may better contribute to the Reformation intended, and such as may stand with the Glory of God; and, in truth, be for the Honour of the King, and the Peace and Happiness of his Kingdoms.
'We have received no satisfaction from your Lordships, concerning the Propositions delivered in by us for Religion, in the Name of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, nor have you made appear unto us, any Injustice or Inconveniency in the passing the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy. And as it cannot be denied, but the settling of Religion is a matter which doth highly concern the Glory of God, the Honour of the King, and the Peace and Happiness of his Kingdoms, so do we desire your Lordships will grant those Demands which have been made unto you by us to that end; and we are ready by present Conference, to receive what your Lordships will offer upon any of those Propositions, and to return that which may give your Lordships just Satisfaction.
Your Lordships having expressed in your Paper of the first of February, that there are other Things touching Religion to be propounded by your Lordships to us, we presume that by this Time you may be enabled by your Instructions to propose the same; and therefore we desire to receive them from your Lordships, which we hope your Lordships will think very reasonable, when your consider how incongruous a thing it will appear to most Men, to consent to real and substantial Alterations in the matter of Religion, without having a view of the whole Alterations intended, when at the same time there is mention of other Alterations.
We shall deliver in very speedily, that whichremains with us touching Religion, to be propounded unto your Lordships, but we desire (as before) your Lordships Answers upon our Demands, in the same Order that we have proposed them, not conceiving it reasonable there should be any Time spent in Debates, or Answers, upon what we shall hereafter offer, till we have received Satisfaction in our former Propositions, which we desire may be speedily done, lest otherwise the Treaty be retarded, and the Expectation of both Kingdoms altogether srustrated.
In answer to your Lordships Paper this day deliver'd to us, we desire that his Majesty do give his Royal Assent to an Act of Parliament for the due observation of the Lord's Day, and to the Bill for suppressing of Innovations in Churches and Chappels, in and about the Worship of God, &c. And for the better advancement of the Preaching of God's Holy Word, in all parts of this Kingdom; and to the Bill against enjoying of Pluralities of Benefices by Spiritual Persons, and Non-Residency. And we shall in due time, give in to your Lordships our Demands concerning Papists, contained in the sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth Propositions; And for his Majesty's assenting to an Act to be framedand agreed upon in both Houses of Parliament, for the regulating and reforming of both Universities, of the Colledges of Westminster, Winchester and Eaton; and for the Education and Marriage of his Majesty's Children and the Children of his Heirs and Successors in the true Protestant Religion, as is in the 21st Proposition.
Some part of the 11th and the most part of the 12th of February, was spent in Argument by Divines touching episcopacy, and the Presbyterial Government Afterwards their Commissioners gave in this Paper.
There having now been several Days spent in Debate upon the Propositions for Religion; and all Objections alledged to the contrary, either from Conscience, Law or Reason, being fully Answered; and the Time allotted for that so important a Part of the Treaty almost elapsed, we should be wanting to the Trust reposed in us, if we should not press and expect (as we now do) a clear and positive Answer to those Demands concerning Religion, which we have offered unto your Lordships from the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, as most necessary for the settling of a safe and well-grounded Peace, in all his Majesty's Dominions.
We deny, that the Objections alledged by us against the passing the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy, from Conscience, Law, or Reason, have been fully answered by your Lordships; or that, indeed, we have received any satisfaction from your Lordships in these particulars. We have received no Information from your Lordships to satisfy us, That Epicopacy is, or hath been, an impediment to a perfect Reformation, to the (fn. 9) growth of Religion; or that it is prejudicial to the Civil State, which we have often desired from your Lordships, without effect, and which are the Grounds upon which your Lordships propose the abolishing Episcopacy and we shall be very willing, and are desirous to receive your Lordships Reasons in these particulars. And how short soever the Time alotted is for the Treaty (for which we cannot be answerable, being not bound up inpoint of Time by his Majesty as your Lordships say you are by your Instructions; And we should be glad that the same might be enlarged proportionably to the importance of the Things to be treated on) we should be wanting to the great Trust reposed in us, if we should consent to those Demands, as they are proposed to us, by your Lordships, otherwise than as they are agreeable to our Consciences and Understandings; and such an Answer your Lordships shall receive from us, to your Demands concerning Religion, upon which we hope a safe and well-grounded Peace, by the blessing of God, may be established.
We did assure our selves, That after so many Days debate concerning Religion, and our removal of what ever Objections have been offered by your Lordships, and our making is appear how great a hindrance Episcopal Government is, and hath been to a perfect Reformation, to the growth of Religion, and prejudicial to the Civil State That your Lordships would have been ready to have answered our Expectation with the Grant of our Demands; but if still your Lordships remain unsatisfied, we conceive it cannot, with any Justice, be imputed unto us, and therefore we again desire your Lordships full and clear Answer to what we have delivered unto you concerning Religion.
Upon this last Paper, and after the several Debates between the Commissioners, and Arguments by the Divines, and Consideration had of all that had been delivered concerning Religion, his Majesty's Commissioners gave in these four Papers following.
We are not yet satisfied, that the Bill insisted on by your Lordships, which remains in his Majesty's Hands for the utter abolishing of Archbishops, Bishops, Deans and Chapters, &c. ought to be enacted, believing it not to be agreeable to Conscience and Justice, to alienate the Lands therein mentioned to Lay-uses; and not understanding that the alienation thereof is necessary at all to the Reformation of Religion: Besides, that there is no certain Provision made for any of those who are now legally vested in those Poffessions, whereby they and their Families shall be in evident danger of want of Bread; and it appearing by your Lordships Propositions, which relate to the Articles of the late Treaty, of the Date of Edinburh 29 of November, 1643. and the joint Declarations of both Kingdoms, to which you requre our Assent, as well as to the Bill, that part of the Church-land may be, after the passing this Bill, assigned to other uses than is exprest in the said Bill. Upon these Considerations, and upon your Debate which hath passed between us upon this Bill, whereby it hath appeared, that there would be so great an Alteration in the Civil State, by this Bill being enacted, in the failure of Justice at the Common Law, and otherwise in many several particulars, of great Importance to the Subjects of this Kingdom, which for ought appears to us, is not yet provided for. And that by a particular (fn. 10) Clause in the Bill, his Majesty's ancient and undoubted Power of the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction is wholly taken away. Besides, it may be very considerable what inconveniences would ensue by the passing this Bill now, which looks back, and is to begin from November was Twelve-month, whereby all those Acts of Jurisdiction, exercised by Bishops since that time, are already void, which would produce great inconveniences and mischiefs touching the Probates of Wills, and Administrations throughout the Kingdom; not to speak of the doubts which may arise in many conscientious Men, who have been Ordained by Bishops since that time; which may seem to be likewise declared void by this Bill; and so at least to discountenance all Acts which have ensued dy vertue of that Ordination; and thereby many Questions may arise in Law concerning Marriages, Legitimations and Descents of Inheritance, and for many other Reasons exprest in our Conference and Debate, we conceive that your Lordships may be satisfy'd, that this individual Bill ought not to pass.
For the matter then of the said Bill, the extirpation of Episcopacy, we desire your Lordships to consider, that it is evident, and we conceive consented to on all parts, that it hath continued even from the Apostles time by continual Succession in the Church of Christ, till within these few years, without intermission or interruption; and then how perilous a thing it must be, and prejudicial to the Publick Peace, to remove and destroy a Form of Government, so long exercis'd in this Kingdom, and under which we have enjoyed as great a measure of Happiness, to say no more, as any Nation in Christendom, and which your Lordships have not pretended to be unlawful, before we particularly see the Model of that Government and Jurisdiction which is to be established in the place thereof; That thereby we may be assured that it be such, to which as well those who like, as all those who dislike the present Government, will submit: Otherwise Peace, which is the main end and pretence for Alterations, cannot be established, and therefore we very earnestly beseech your Lordships to consider and weigh, whether without shaking Foundations, it be not much better, and more agreeable to Christian Prudence and Charity, to remove those Particulars from the present Government, or make such Alterations therein, as may most probably give satisfaction to all Persons seriously disturbed or afficted in their Consciences, than by destroying the whole, to give just Offence and Scandal to very many Pious and Religious Persons.
That the Bishop shall exercise no Act of Jurisdiction or Ordination, without the Consent and Counsel of the Presbyter, who shall be chosen by the Clergy of each Diocess, out of the learnedest and gravest Ministers of that Diocess.
That the Bishop keep his constant Residence in his Diocess, except when he shall be required by his Majesty to attend him on any occasion, and that (if he be not hindred by the Infirmities of old Age or Sickness) he preach every Sunday in some Church within his Diocess.
That the Ordination of Ministers shall be always in a publick and solemn Manner, and very strict Rules observed concerning the Sufficiency, and other Qualifications of those Men, who shall be received into Holy Orders; and the Bishop shall not receive any into Holy Orders, without the Approbation and Consent of the Presbyters, or the major part of them.
That competent Maintenance and Provision be established by Act of Parliament to such Vicarages as belong to Bishops, Deans and Chapters, out of the Impropriations, and according to the Value of those Impropriations, of the several Parishes.
That towards the settling of the Publick Peace, One Hundred Thousand Pounds shall be raised by Act of Parliament out of the Estates of Bishops, Deans and Chapters, in such Manner as shall be thought fit by the King and two Houses of Parliament, without the Alienation of any of the said Lands.
And likewise that one or more Acts of parliament be passed for regulating of Visitations, and against immoderate Fees in Ecclesiastical Courts, and the Abuses by trivolous Excommunications, and all other Abuses in the Exercise of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction, in such Manner as shall be agreed upon by his Majesty and both Houses of Parliament.
For the Confirmation of the Ordinances concerning the Calling and Sitting of the Assembly of Divines, and the taking the Covenant, we conceive neither of them need be insisted on, if the Alterations of Church-Government be agreed upon between us: And if it be not, it will not be reasonable that we consent to those Ordinances. And for the Covenant, we cannot advise his Majesty to swear and sign the same, nor consent that an Act of Parliament should pass for enjoining the taking thereof by his Majesty's Subjects.
We do not yet conceive, that the Directory for Publick Worship, delivered to us by your Lordships, ought to be Enacted, or that it is so likely to procure and preserve the Peace of this Kingdom, as the Liturgy or Common-Prayer-Book already established by Law, against which we have not yet received from your Lordships any Objections; which Liturgy (as the same was compiled by many Learned and Revered Divines, of whom some dy'd Martyrs for the Protestant Religion) We conceive to be an excellent Form for the Worship of God, and hath been generally so held throughout this Kingdom, till within these two or three Years at the most; And therefore since there are no Inconveniences pretended to arise from the Book of Common-Prayer, to which we conceive the Directory is not more liable, and since there is nothing commend. able in the Directory, which is not already in the Book of Common-Prayer, we conceive it much better, and more conducing to the Peace of this Kingdom, still to observe the said Form, with such Dispensations as we have expressed in our first Paper now presented to your Lordships; and if there shall be any Alterations proposed by your Lordships, of such Particulars in the Book of Common-Prayer, as good Men are scrupled at, we shall willingly endeavour to give your Lordships Satisfaction in those Particulars, but as yet can make no further, or other Answer, than we have already done; but shall be ready to receive such Objectious as your Lordships that think fit to make against the Book of Common-Prayer, and your Reasons for introducing the Directory. And for the Proposition concerning Church Government, annexed to your first Paper, We have no Information how that Government shall be constituted particular, or what Jurisdiction shall be established, or by whom it shall be granded, or upon whom it shall depend. And therein also we desire further Information from your Lordships.
We desire to see the Bills for the Observation of the Lord's Day, for suppressing of Innovation in Churches and Chapels, and for the better Advancement of the preaching of God's Holy Word, which are mentioned in your Lordships (fn. 11) Paper of the 11th of February, we being very ready to consent to the subject Matter of those Bills. We have expressed in our Paper delivered to your Lordships, what we conceive fit to be done in the business of Pluralities, which will prevent any Inconveniences that way; and when your Lordships shall give us your Demands concerning Papists, and when we shall see the Acts for the Regulating and Reforming of both Universities, of the Colleges of Westminster, Winchester and Eaton, and for the Education and Marriage of his Majesty's Children, and the Children of his Heirs and Successors, in the true Protestant Religion, We shall give your Lordships such Answers as shall be fit, being very willing to concur with your Lordships in any good Means, for the suppressing of Popery, and Advancement of the Prote stant Religion. And we are well assured, that his Majesty hath taken a pious Care for the Education of all his good Subjects, we are confident, in due time, his Majesty will so dispose of the rest in Marriage, as shall be most for the Advancement of Religion, and the Good and Welfare of all his Dominions.
Whereas we expected your Lordships Resolutions for his Majesty's Assent unto the Bill for the utter abolishing of Archbishops, Bishops, &c. We find, by your Paper given in this Evening, that your Lordships are not yet satisfied that the Bill should pass, and you are pleased to express several Reasons and Objections against it, which were at large answered and cleared at the publick Debate. But what was then said by us, is now by your Lordships wholly omitted; nor may we in Writing represent it again unto your Lordships, it not being agreeable to the Usage of Parliaments, to deliver Reasons for or against a Bill, though we were willing, by Conference in the Treaty, to fatisfy all Doubts, and remove all Scruples which remained with you. And so far were we from consenting that Episcopacy hath continued from the Apostles Times, by continual Succession, that the contrary was made evident unto your Lordships, and the Unlawfulness of it fully proved. And as for that which your Lordships have propounded, for uniting and reconciling all Differences in the matter of Religion; it is a new Proposition, which wholly differs from ours, is no way satisfactory to our destres, nor consisting with that Reformation, to which both Kingdoms are obliged by their Solemn Covenant; therefore we can give no other Answer to it, but must insist, to desire your Lordships, that the Bill may be pass'd and our other Demands concerning Religion granted.
We conceive that our Answer to your Lordships, concerning the Bill for the utter abolishing of Archbishops, Bishops, &c. was so reasonable, that it clearly appears thereby, that the passing that individual Bill is not agreeable to Conscience and Justice, and that it would be very prejudicial to the Civil State, and to the Peace of the Kingdom; neither have the Reasons and Objections given by us against it, first in Debate, and since in Writing, been answered in Debate by your Lordships. And therefore we know no reason why your Lordships may not give an Answer to those Objections in Writing. For as it is not agreeable to the Usage of Parliaments, for the two Houses to give his Majesty Reasons why he should pass any Bill presented by them; so it is no more agreeable to the same Usage, for his Majesty to give Reasons why he doth not pass Bills so presented. But we desire your Lordships to consider, That we are now in a Treaty, and we conceive the proper business thereof to be for your Lordships to give us Reasons, why his Majesty should consent to the Propositions made by you or for us to give Reasons to your Lordships, why we cannot consent to those Propositions; otherwise it would be only a Demand on your Lordships part, and no Argument of Treaty between us. And we must profess to your Lordships, That (as we conceived in our former Paper) the Succession of Episcopacy, by Succession from the Apostles Time, was consented to on all parts, so we cannot remember, that the contrary thereof, was so much as alledged, much less that the Unlawfulness thereof was proved, the Question of the Lawfulness thereof having never yet come in debate. And we shall be very ready to receive any Assertion from your Lordships to that purpose, not doubting but we shall give your Lordships full Satisfaction in that Point. And we conceive the Alterations proposed by us to your Lordships, to be a very proper Answer to your Lordships Propositions, and most agreeable to the End for which those Propositions seem to be made. And that since it appears that the utter abolishing of Episcopacy, in the Manner proposed, is visibly inconvenient, and may be mischievous, the regulating of Episcopacy being most consonant to the Primitive Institution will produce all these good Effects towards Peace and Unity, which regulated Episcopacy is the sum of our former Paper, we desire your Lordships to consent to the same. And we again offer to your Lordships, that if you shall insist upon any other things necessary for Reformation, we will apply ourselves to the Consideration thereof.
'We conceive your Lordships second Paper, this Day delivered to us, is a denial of our Demands, that the Ordinance for Calling and Sitting of the Assembly of Divines, be confirmed by Act of Parliament; and that his Majesty take the Solemn League and Covenant, and the Covenant be enjoined to be taken, according to the second Proposition. Wherein if we misconceive your Lordships Intention, we desire you would explain the Meanings, and accordingly shall make our Reports to the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
Concerning the Ordinances for the Calling and Sitting of the Assembly of Divines, and the taking the Covenant, we can give no farther Answer than we have done in our second Paper, delivered to your Lordships this Day.
'We do conceive your Lordships third Paper is a Denial of our Demands, concerning the Directory for Publick Worship, and the Proposition for Church-Government, against which your Lordships have made no Objection, and your Queries are already satisfied by Conference. And we shall accordingly make our Reports to the Parliaments of both Kingdoms.
Our Expressions in our Answer to your Lordships Demands, concerning the Directory for Publick Worship, import only what we, as yet, conceive concerning that Matter, there having hitherto been no Debate touching the same, or concerning the Common Prayer-Book, now established by Law, and thereby in tended to be abolished: And therefore we did in that Paper, and do still desire to receive your Lordships (fn. 12) Objections against the Book of Common-Prayer, and your Reasons for introducing the Directory. Neither can our Answer to the Propositions for Church-Government, annexed to your first Paper, be otherwise taken, than as our desire to receive Information, how that Government should be constituted in particular, and what Jurisdiction should be established, by whom granted, and upon whom it should depend; which Queres were not satisfied by any Conference, your Lordships (as we conceive) having declared your selves, that the particular Form or Model of that Government, mentioned in those Propositions only in general, were not then particularly agreed on; and we have since desired and expect to receive it, and therefore your Lordships cannot conceive we have denied that which we have not yet seen, nor been informed of.
'To your Lordships fourth Paper, we answer, The Bill for suppressing of Innovations in Churches and Chapels, in and about the Worship of God, &c. And for the better Advancement of the preaching of God's holy Word in all Parts of this Kingdom, and against the enjoying of Pluralities of Benefices by Spiritual Persons, and Non-Residency, were heretofore presented to his Majesty, and remain with him: And we herewith deliver to your Lordships, the Ordinance for the due Observation of the Lord's Day, and we insist on our former Demands concerning them. And when your Lordships have given us your full Answers to our Desires already with you concerning Religion, we then shall deliver unto your Lordships our Demands concerning Papists, the regulating the Universities, the Education and Marriage of his Majesty's Children in the true Protestant Religion, contained in our Paper of the 11th of this Instant February.
We have not the Bills here, which we desired of your Lordships, in our fourth Paper to fee, and which you now say were heretofore presented to his Majesty. But we shall take speedy Care to have those Bills, if they remain with his Majesty, and in the mean time desire your Lordships to give us Copies of them, and we shall give your Lordships a speedy Answer, as we shall to the Ordinance for the due Observation of the Lord's Day, which we received fromyour Lordships this Night, and had never before seen; and we shall be ready to receive your Lordships (fn. 13) Demands encerning Papists, the regulating the Universities, the Education and Marriage of his Majesty's Children, and shall return our Answers accordingly.
This last Paper concluded the Six Days, appointed for the Treaty upon Religion, according to the Order prescribed for disposing the first Eighteen Days of the Twenty for the Treaty. In the end of which eighteen Days, after some Papers mutually delivered concerning the Manner how the two last Days should be disposed, this Subject of Religion, with the two others, were again resumed, and their Papers following were then delivered in concerning Religion.
'Whereas your Lordships in your (fn. 14) last Paper of Feb. 13, were pleased to say, That (as you conceived) the continual Succession of Episcopacy from the Apostles times, was consented to on all parts, and that you cannot remember that the contrary thereof was so much as alledged, much less that the Unlawfulness thereof was proved, the Question of the Unlawfulness thereof having never yet come into Debate; We desire your Lordships to remember, 'That when a Divine in Commission with you undertook to prove the Jure Divinum of Episcopacy his Arguments were not only answered by another Divine then in Commission with us, but that four or five several Arguments were then brought by him out of the Scriptures, to prove the unlawfulness of it; and after wards in an extrajudicial Debate between several Divines on both sides, by consent of the Commissioners, those Argument were further made good by the Divines on our side, and and the pretended continual Succession of Episcopal Government from the Apostles Times was (as we conceive) at the same time susficiently disproved; so that we cannot but wonder that your Lordships should forget that the unlawfulness of it was debated. And whereas in your Lordships (fn. 15) last Paper of Feb. 20 you were pleased to say, that if it might be made appear, that the Government by Bishops is unlawful, or that the Government, which we desire to introduce in the room thereof, is the only Government that is agreeable to the Word of God, your Lordships would immediately give us full satisfaction in our Proposition. We desire your Lordships to remeber besides, what hath been proved in Debate concerning the unlawfulness of Episcopal Government, and notwithstanding the general Experience that the Government by Archbishops, Bishops, &c. hath been a hindrance to Reformation, growth of Religion, and prejudicial to the Civil State, and the manifest evidence of the thing itself, that so much of the Government desired by us, as hath been presented to your Lordships, is agreeable to the Word of God, how we have several times offered our selves to give your Lordships satisfection by Conference, if any Objections remained with your Lordships to the contrary, which we are still ready to do, and desire your Lordships full Answer to that and the rest of our Propositions concerning Religion.
We did conceive that the continual Succession of Episcopacy from the Apostles times, had heen so clearly manifested to your Lordships, by our Conserence on the 12th of this instant, that your Lordships had been fully satisfyed therein; the which since you are not, we would gladly be informed when and where any National Church, since the Apostles times, was without that Government; and since your Lordships are of Opinion that the unlawfulness of Episcopacy was made good by those Arguments, which were given by the Divines on your Part, which in truth we did not understand to be made to that purpose when they were first argued, and being now again remembered, in our Judgments do not in any degree prove the same, we being very ready to consent to the abolishing thereof if the same can be proved; and your Lordships assuming that you have proved it, and so that you can again prove it, we desire your Lordships by Conference, or in Writing, to satisfy us in that Point; which we hope being in your Power (as you say) to do, and being a sure way to put an end to this Debate by our yielding, your Lordships will not resuse to do it: But if neither that, nor the other Proposition, that the Government intended to be introduced by your Lordships, is the only Government, that is agreeable to the Word of God, can be evinced: We hope your Lordships will rest satisfied with the Reasons we have given your Lordships in Writing, why we cannot consent to your Propositions concerning Religion, as they are made and insisted on by your Lordships, and that we have offered vour Lordships a Remedy against all the Inconveniences that have been ever pretended in the Government, as is now establish'd by Law, and which ought not upon less Reasons than we have mentioned to be taken away.
We do not conceive that the continual Succession of Episcopacy from the Apostles time, hath been at all manifested to us in Conference by your Lordships, and for what your Lordships mention concerning a National Church, it is a new Question which hath not, as yet, been any part of the Subject of our Debate; but we desire to bring that to a Conclusion which is in issue between us, and not doubting but that your Lordishps are fully satisfied, That Episcopacy is not Jure Divino, we are ready by Conference to shew the unlawfulness of that Episcopacy which we defire to take away by our Bill, and that the Government which we propose is agreeable to the Word of God.
'Having the last Night given in a Paper unto your Lordships, wherein we signified that we doubted not, but that your were fully satisfied, that Episcopacy was not Jure Divino, we are the more confirmed in it, because your Lordships have since that Time given us nothing in to the contrary, and we hope we have by clear Arguments from Scripture and Reason this Day likewise satisfied you, That the Government by Archbishops, Bishops, &c. which we desired to be taken away by this Bill, is unlawful; and that the Government which we desire to be established, is agreeable to the Word of God; and therefore we desire your Lordships to agree to the passing of this Bill, and to give us your full and clear Answer to this, and the rest of the Propositions concerning Religion.
According to your Lordships Paper of the last Night, we attended your Debate this Day concerning the unlawfulness of Episcopacy; but did neither then, nor do now, acknowledge our selves convinced by any Argument offered by you, that Episcopacy is not Jure Divino, the same having been the Opinion of very many Learned Men in all Ages (which we do not censure or determine) but not insisted on by us, as the ground of any Answer we have delivered to your Lordships; and we are so far from being satisfied with the Arguments from Scripture and Reason, this day urged, to prove, That the Government by Archbishops, Bishops, &c. which you desire to be taken away by this Bill, is unlawful, that the weightiest Arguments which were urged (in our Judgments) concluded at most against those Inconveniences which are remedied by the Alteration offered by us to your Lardships in our (fn. 16) Paper of the 13th of this Month; and it seems strange to us that your Lordships should think that Government (without which no National Church hath been since the Apostles time till within these few Years) to be unlawful; and for the Government desired by you to be established your Lordships have not offered any such particular Form of Government to us that may inable us to judge thereof; and we cannot but observe, that the Arguments produced to that purpose, were only to prove the same not unlawful, without offering to prove it absolute necessary, and therefore we conceive our Answer, formerly given to your Lordships concerning that Bill, and your Proposions concerning Religion, is a just and reasonable Answer.
After the first three Days of the Treaty, spent upon the Business of Religion, according to the Order formerly prescribed, the Propositions concerning the Militia were next Treated upon the three Days following, beginning the Fourth of February, and the same was afterward resumed the 14th of February, for other three Days.
We desire that an Act of Parliament be passed for the settling of the Admiralty and Forces at Sea, and for the raising of such Moneys for Maintenance of the said Forces, and of the Navy as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit.
An Act for the settling of all Forces by Sea and Land, and Commissioners to be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, of Persons of known Integrity, and such as both Kingdoms may conside in, for their Faithfulness to the Religion and Peace of the Kingdom of the House of Peers and of the House of Commons, who shall be removed or altered from time to time, as both Houses shall think fit. And when any shall dye, others, to be nominated in their Places by the said House, which Commissioners shall have Power,
First, To suppress any Forces raised without Authority of both Houses of Parliament or in the Intervals of Parliaments, without Consent of the said Commissioners, to the disturbance of the Publick Peace of these Kingdoms, and to suppress any Foreign Forces that shall invade this Kingdom; and that it shall be high Treason in any, who shall levy any Forces without such Authority or Consent, to the disturbance of the Publick Peace of the Kingdom, any Commission under the Great Seal, or other Warrant to the contrary, notwithstanding; and they to be incapable of any Pardon from his Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed of as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit.
3. To have Power to send part of Themselves, so as they exceed not a third Part, or be not under the number of to reside in the Kingdom of Scotland, to Assist and Vote as single Persons, with the Commissioners of Scotland, in those matters wherein the Kingdom of Scotland.
2. To prevent the violation of the Articles of Peace, as aforesaid, or any Troubles arising in the Kingdoms, by breach of the said Articles, and to hear and determine all differnces that may occasion the same, according to the Treaty; and to do further, according as they shall respectively receive Instructions from both Houses of Parliament in England, or the Estates of Parliament in Scotland; and in the intervals of Parliaments, from the Commissioners for the Preservation of the Publick Peace.
3. To raise and joyn the Forces of both Kingdoms, to resist all Foreign Invasions, and so suppress any Forces raised within any of the Kingdom, to the disturbance of the Publick Peace of the Kingdoms, by any Authority under the Great Seal, or other Warrant whatsoever, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament in England, and the Estates of the parliament of Scotland, or the said Commissioners of that Kingdom whereof they are Subjects. And that in those Cases of joynt Concernment to both Kingdoms, the Commissioners to be directed to be there all, or such part as aforesaid, to Act and Direct as joynt Commissioners of both Kingdoms.
We desire that the Militia of the City of London may be in the Ordering and Government of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen and Commons in Common Council assembled, or such as they shall from time to time appoint, whereof the Lord Mayor and Sheriffs for the time being to be three. And that the Militia of the Parishes without London, and the Liberties within the Weekly Bills of Mortality, may be under the Command of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen and Commons in Common Council of the said City, to be ordered in such manner as shall be agreed on, and appointed by both of the Houses of Parliament.
And that the Citizens, or Forces of London, shall not be drawn out of the City into any other Parts of the Kingdom, without their own Consent. And that the drawing of their Forces into other Parts of the Kingdom in these distracted Times, may not be drawn into Example for the future.
We conceive the Propositinns delivered by your Lordships concerning the Militia, import very great Alterations in the main Foundation of the Frame of Government of this Kingdom, taking by express Words, or by necessary consequence, the whole Military or Civil Power out of the Crown, without any limitation in time or reparation proposed. Therefore we desire to know for what Term you intend the Militia shall be settled in such manner as may be a reasonable and full security, which we are ready and desirous to give, to preserve the Peace now to be settled, and to prevent all Disturbances of the Publick Peace that may arise by occasion of the late Troubles For the better doing whereof, we are ready by Conference to satisfy your Lordships in any particulars.
Our Paper given in to your Lordships concerning the Militia, doth not contain the Alterations mentioned in your Lordships Answer, but desires that which by the Wisdom of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms is judged necessary at this time for the security fo his Majesty's Kingdoms, and Preservation of the Peace now to be settled, and until your Lordships shall declare an Assent unto the matter therein expressed, we conceive it will not be seasonable to give any Answer concerning the Time; And we are ready to conser with your Lordships upon what shall be offered by you to our Paper concerning the Militia formerly delivered.
We are of Opinion, that the Propositions in your Lordships Paper contain the Alterations mentioned in the Paper we lately delivered to your Lordships, and take by express Words, or necessary Consequence, the whole Military and Civil Power out of the Crown, which Alterations we are ready to make appear in Debate. And the Alterations being so great, we have reason to desire to know the limitation of Time, the Consideration of which makes the Propositions more or less reasonable.
We desire to know who the Commissioners shall be in whose Hands the Forces by Sea and Land shall be entrusted; and whether you intend his Majesty shall be obliged to consent to such Persons; or whether he may except against them, and name others in their Places of known Affection to Religion and Peace.
The Commissioners in whose hands the Forces by Sea and Land shall be entrusted, are to be nominated for England, by both the Houses of the Parliament of England, and for Scotland, by the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, as is expressed in our Paper formerly delivered to your Lordships concerning the Militia.
We desire a full Answer to our Paper concerning the Persons to be entrufted with the Militia, it being very necessary to know the Persons, before Consent can be given to the matter; and whether his Majesty may except against any such Persons, and nominate others in their rooms, against whom there can be no just Exception.
We desire to know, whether your Lordships intend that the Militia of the City of London shall be independent, and not subordinate to those Commissioners in whose hands the Forces by Sea and Land shall be entrusted.
We desire an Answer to our Paper concerning the Militia of the City of London, whether the same shall be subordinate to the Commissioners in whose Hands the Forces, by Sea and Land, are to be intrusted; your Lordships answer, that the same is to be ordered in such Manner as shall be agreed on, and appointed by both Houses of Parliament (which yet doth not appear by the Propositions) being no Answer to the Question.
Having, with great Diligence, perused your Lordships Paper concerning the Militia, and being very desirous to come to as speedy a Conclusion in that Argument as we can; We will be ready to-morrow, to give your Lordships our full Answer, which we are confident will give your Lordships Satisfaction concerning the matter of the Militia of this Kingdom.
To suppress any Forces that may be raised to the Distrubance of the publick Peace of the Kingdom, or that shall invade this Kingdom, and to preserve the Peace now to be settled, and to prevent all Disturbances of the publick Peace, that may arise by occasion of the late Troubles; And that his Majesty and all his People may be secured from the Jealousies and Apprehensions they have of Danger; We do consent, that all the Forces of the Kingdom, both by Sea and Land shall be put into the Hands of Persons of known Faith ulness to Religion and Peace of the Kingdom, in such manner, and for such time, as is here-after mentioned.
That the number of those Persons be Twenty; or if that be not accepted by your Lordships, such greater or lesser number, as shall be agreed upon between us; And that his Majesty may name half the Persons to be so entrusted, and the two Houses the other half.
That such Forts and Towns, in which Garrisons have been before these Troubles, and such other as shall be agreed upon between us to be necessary for a time to be kept as Garrisons, shall be entrusted likewise to Persons to be chosen by the Commissioners, or the major part of them, t be subordinate to the said Commissioners, and to receive Orders from them, and no others; And all other Places, which have been fortified since the beginnig of these Troubles, shall be left as they were before, and the Fortifications and Works slighted and demolished; And all Forces with all possible Expedition to be disbanded, that the Kingdom may be eased of that intolerable Burthen.
That when any of the said Commissioners shall die, who was nominated by his Majesty, his Majesty shall name another; and when any shall die of those named by the two Houses, another shall be chosen by them, and in the Intervals of Parliament by the major part of the said Commissioners named by the two Houses, and neither the one nor the other to be remobed, but by the joint Consent of his Majesty and both Houses, except it shall be desired by your Lordships that his Majesty and the two Houses respectively may remove the respective Persons named by them, as often as they shall see occasion, to which (if it shall be insisted on) we shall consent.
These Commissioners or the major part of them, or such other Number of them as shall be agreed upon, shall have Power by Act of Parliament, to suppress any Forces raised fitting in Parliament, without the joint Consent of his Majesty and both Houses of Parliament; or in the Intervals of Parliament without Consent of the said Commissioners, or the major part of them, to the Disturbance of the publick Peace of this Kingdom, and to suppress any Forces that shall invade the Kingdom. And it shall be High Treason in any who shall levy any Forces, without such Authority or Consent, to the Disturbance of the publick Peace.
That they shall have like Power to preserve the Peace now to be settled, and to prevent all Disturbances of the publick Peace, that may arise by occasion of the late Troubles: And if any Forces shall be brought into the Kingdom, without the joint Consent of the King and the two Houses of Parliament, it shall be lawful for any four of the said Commissioners to levy Forces for the suppressing, resisting and destroying of the said Forces so brought in.
We are content that this Power to such Persons shall continue for the space of three Years, which we doubt not, but by the Blessing of God, will be abundantly sufficient to secure all Persons from their Doubts and Fears, and in which time such a mutual Confidence may be begot betwixt his Majesty and all his People, that the Peace will be firm and lasting.
That the Commissioners, before their entrance upon the said Trust, shall take an Oath for the due Execution of the said Commission and that after the expiration of the said Term of three Years, from the time of the issuing the said Commission, they shall not presume to continue any Execution of the said Authority, and it shall be High Treason in any of them to execute the said Authority after the expiration of the said three Years. And all the Commanders in chief of the Garrions, Forts, and his Majesty's Ships, shall likewise take an Oath for the due Execution of their Trust.
That the Commissioners shall have Power to prevent the Violation of the Articles of Peace, or any Troubles arising in the Kingdom by breach of the said Articles, and to hear and determine all Differences that may occasion the same.
We shall be willing that any just Privileges and Immunities be granted by his Majesty to the City of London, as being the chief City of this Kingdom, and the Place his Majesty desires to honour with his most usual and most constant Residence: But we conceive it too envious a thing, and may prove very prejudicial to the Happiness of that great City, to distinguish it in a matter of so high Importance as the business of the Militia, from the Authority that the whole Kingdom is to submit to.
If your Lordships shall not consent to the Election of Persons, in that manner as we have proposed, half by his Majesty, and the other half by the two Houses, we do then propose to your Lordships, that the said Persons who shall have the said Powers in Manner and Form above-mentioned, may be named by mutual Consent upon Debate between us; in which Consideration may be taken of the Fitness or Unsitness of those who shall be named: And in case that any of them who shall be thus agreed upon shall die within the said Term of three Years, the Survivors, or the major part of them, shall nominate and chuse another in his place who shall be deceased. This way we should most have desired, but in regard the Consideration of Persons may take up a long time in Debate, which neither the Time alloted for the Treaty, nor the present Distractions will permit, we do propose the former as the most expedite and certain way, but leave the Election to your Lordships.
And whatsoever shall be found deficient in the settling this according to the present Agreement, or shall be thought fit to be added to it upon any Inconveniences or Defects that shall be hereafter discovered, the same shall be mended or supplied in such manner as shall be thought reasonable by the joint Consent of his Majesty, and the two Houses of Parliament.
We shall be ready against the time that the Militia is again in order to be treated upon, to give your Lordships an Answer to your Demands, concerning the Militia of the Kingdom of Scotland; the which for the present, we have not had time to do, having wholly spent these three days in the perfecting the Paper delivered to your Lordships this day, and the Debates in preparation thereof.
Your Lordships paper which we have received so late at the end of the third Day, appointed to treat upon the Militia, on which we expected a satisfactory Answer to our Demands concerning it, it is very far differing from what we have proposed, and unsatisfactory to our just and necessary Desires, for securing the Peace of the Kingdoms, and wherein we cannot but observe, that the Kingdom of Scotland is wholly omitted. We do therefore insist upon our Paper formerly delivered concerning the Militia, and desire your Lordships full and clear Answer, being ready, by Conference, to remove all Objections which may be made to the contrary.
We conceive the Paper delivered by us to your Lordships, may justly satisfie your Lordships for the securing the Peace of this Kingdom against all Forces that may any ways endanger it at home, or from abroad, and for securing the Performance of all things that shall be agreed in this Treaty; and we are ready, by Conserence, to make the Reasonableness thereof appear, and to receive any Reasons from your Lordships to the contrary. And as touching Scotland, we hope your Lordships will be satisfied by the last paper we delivered to you.
In our last Paper we insisted upon our former Demands for the Militia, and offered, by Conference, to satisfie your Lordships of the Reasonableness of them, if any Doubts remained with you to the contrary, which we are still ready to do, they being the proper Subject of this part of the Treaty. And whereas your Lordships have in your Paper, referred what concerns the Kingdom of Scotland unto another time, and seem to intend it a several Answer; both Kingdoms being united in the same Cause, and under the same Danger, and mutually providing for the joint Safety, and Security of both, and each other, our Propositions are jointly made by both, and are inconsistent with a divided Answer.
Whereas your Lordships have offered in your last Paper to satisfie us, by Conference, of the Reasonableness of your Demands, if any Doubts remain with us to the contrary: We desire to receive Satisfaction by Conference, that it is reasonable for us to grant the Nomination of the Persons by the two Houses only, and that the Time ought not to be limited.
As we have given to your Lordships our Propositions for the Militia of both Kingdoms in Writing, so we do again desire your Lordships full and clear Answer to them both in Writing, and we are ready to answer any Doubts you shall make upon them in order as we delivered them, and as they do relate to both Kingdoms, but we cannot treat your Lordships Answer which divides them.
The first three days, allotted for the Treaty upon the Militia, being spent, and that Subject resumed upon Friday the 14th, Saturday the 15th, and Monday the 17th of February. In those days divers Papers were delivered, and some Debates had touching the Nomination of the Persons who were to be entrusted with the Militia, whether they should all be Nominated by the two Houses only; and touching the Time, how long they should have it, and whether the same should be unlimited, as it was in the Propositions, or be limited to a certain Time; as likewise concerning the Powers of the English and Scottish Commissioners for the Militia, which are so intermingled in the Propositions, that it was not well understood upon the Propositions, how far the Commissioners of one Kingdom, and their Power might extend unto, and have Influence upon the other, and the one upon the Government of the other, and concerning some other Passages having relation to the Militia; which would be intricate, if they should be set down in the order of Time as they were deliverd; and because sometimes divers Papers were delivered together, therefore they are placed according to their distinct Matters. And first touching the Nomination of Persons, and Limitation of the Time.
If your Lordships are not satisfied with the (fn. 17) Papers delivered to your Lordships by us on the 6th of February, concerning the Militia, as far as the same concerns this Kingdom, we desire according to your Lordships Offer in your first and (fn. 18) second Paper delivered to us the sixth of February, that your Lordships will satisfie us of the Reasonableness of your Demands, and that the Nominating of the Persons ought to be by the two Houses only, and that the Time ought not to be limited.
By your Lordship's Paper received this Day, we apprehend your Desire to proceed in the Treaty, upon the Propositions for the Militia, as far as the same concerns this Kingdom, without any mention of the Kingdom of Scotland. In answer whereunto, we refer your Lordships to a former Paper of the 6th of February instant, whereby we desired your full and clear answer to our Propositions for the Militia of both Kingdoms, in order as we have delivered them, and as they do relate to both Kingdoms, and that we could not treat upon your Lordships Answer which divides them. We still insist on that Paper, and when your Lordships shall be pleased to give an Answer thereunto, we shall be ready to clear any Doubes which may remain with your Lordships.
We do desire to proceed in the Treaty, upon the Proposition for the Militia, as the same concerns both Kingdoms jointly, as well as either of them severally; neither is the contrary expressed (as we conceive) in the Paper delivered by us to your Lordships this Day; but we cannot reasonably answer to them as they concern one or both Kingdoms, before we receive Satisfaction from your Lordships of the Reasonableness of your Demands, which your Lordships were pleased to promise us by two of your Papers of the sixth of February, and which we again desire of your Lordships concerning the Persons and the Time, conceiving it unreasonable, that all the Persons shall be nominated only by the Houses, and that the Time should be unlimited,
We have formerly desired your Lordships Answer to the Propositions for the Militia, in order as we delivered them, and as they do relate to both Kingdoms, and not to give any Answer which shall divide them. Yet me observe in the matter of your Lordships (fn. 19) third Paper yesterday received, that you desire particular Satisfaction in the Particulars there mentioned, as the same concern the Kingdom of England, only in pursuance of a former Paper given in by your Lordships the 6th of February. We therefore again desire as formerly, that such Answer as your Lordships shall think fit to make to our Propositions concerning the Militia, may be applyed to both Kingdoms joyntly, and then we shall be ready, by Conference, to clear any Objections, which your Lordships shall make against the Reasonableness of our Demands.
We desire that your Lordships will satisfy us of the reasonableness of your Demands concerning the settling the Militia of both Kingdoms, and that the Nominating of the Persons ought to be by the two Houses of the Parliament, and the like for the Kingdom of Scotland, and that the Time ought not to be limited.
Your Lordships Demand in your (fn. 20) 4th Paper being made concerning the Militia of both Kingdoms, we are ready, upon Conference to give Satisfaction to what your Lordships, shall object against the Nominating of the Commissioners by the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, or against the Time for which the Militia is demanded in the Propositions.
After some Time spent in Conference, for limitting the Time, wherein the Debate was, touching the unreasonableness of the Demand, for taking from the King the Power of the Militia, and settling it in Commissioners, to be Nominated by the two Houses, not limited to any Time, the King's Commissioners gave in this Paper.
In answer to your (fn. 21) sixth Paper of the 15th of this Instant, concerning the limitation of Time, in the settling of the Militia, We do insist that the Time be unlimited, according to our former Demands.
After so long Debate between us, concerning the limitation of Time, in the settling of the Militia, (in which we conceive your Lordships had been satisfied, that as it is no way necessary, for the security of the Observation and Performance of the present Agreement, that the Time should be unlimited, so in respect of other Considerations, it may be very mischievous, that it should be unlimited) we had great Reason to desire to know, whether your Lordships had any Power by your Instructions, to consent to a limitation of Time, and are sorry that your Lordships will not give us an Answer to that Question, that thereupon we might have endeavoured to have given your Lordships other Satisfaction, than by not knowing your Power therein, we are enabled to do.
We conceive that after so long a Debate between us, your Lordships would have been satisfied, that it was most fit concerning the settling the Militia, for the Time to be unlimited, as we have formerly desired, and which by our Instructions we are to insist upon
We desire a full and clear Answer to what we have delivered to your Lordships concerning the Militia, and to know whether your Lordships be limitted by any Instructions or Directions what to grant or deny in the same, and that we may have a sight of such Instructions or Directions.
We do (fn. 22) herewith deliver to your Lordships, such a full and clear Answer to your Propositions concerning the Militia, as we hope will give your Lordships Satisfaction, being such, as upon the Conference and Information we have received from your Lordships, seems to us to be most reasonable.
It appeareth by our Commission, whereof your Lordships have a Copy, that it hath not any reference to any Instructions. It is true, that as we have (according to our Duty) from time to time acquainted his Majesty with our Proceedings, so in some particular Cases, we have desired to be assisted with his Majesty's Opinion, but what Answers we have therein received from his Majesty, we conceive it not proper for us to communicate to your Lordships, nor have we any Warrant so to do.
We again desire of your Lordships, to know, whether you be limited by any Instructions, or Directions, what to grant or deny unto us, concerning the Militia, and that we may have a sight of such Instructions or Directions, and which we conceive your Lordships in Justice and Reason cannot deny, seeing by your Papers and Debates, you insisted, that it was just and reasonable for us let you know, whether we had any Power by our Instructions, to consent to a limitation of Time, which we did accordingly. And your Lordships seventh Paper, this Day delivered, gives no Answer or Satisfaction to our Demand herein.
We conceive it was just and reasonable for us to demand of your Lordships, whether you had Power by your Instructions to consent to a limitation of Time concerning the Militia, because the Time is left indefinite, and not expressed in the Propositions. And your Lordships Commission, which gives you Power to Treat, relating to Instructions, they are thereby part of your Power, and yet your Lordships to that our Demand, have given no other Answer, than, That by your Instructions, you were to insist, to have the Time unlimited; but have not answered, Whether you had Power to consent to a limitation of Time: And we desire your Lordships to remember, that formerly upon our desire to see your Instructions, that thereby we might see what power was granted to you, by your (fn. 23) Paper of the last of January, your Lordships did answer, It was that for which you had no Warrant; and it appearing to your Lordships, that our Commission hath no reference to Instructions, we conceive that your Lordships cannot expect any other Answer, than we have already given to your Lordships Demand, touching any Instructions or Directions to us, what to deny, or consent to grant in the Militia, assuring your Lordships that we shall not deny, but willingly consent, to grant whatsoever shall be therein requisite for a full security, for observing the Articles of the Treaty, or otherwise agreeable to Justice or Reason.
Touching the Power which should be given to the Commissioners for the Militia.
We desire to know, what Authority the Commissioners, nominated by the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, are to have in the Militia of this Kingdom; and what influence the Orders and Advice from the Estates of the Parliament there, shall have upon this Kingdom; and how far the same is to be consented, or submitted to here.
Your Lordships desire, expressed in your second Paper this Day, may be fully satisfied by the Propositions concerning the Militia, where the Authority of the Commissioners to be nominated, is clearly expressed, both in Cases of several, and of joynt concernment of the Kingdoms; and if upon perusal thereof any Doubts shall occur to your Lordships, we are ready, by Conference, to clear the same.
We do not conceive that the Authority of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, and in both Kingdoms, is clearly expressed in your Lordships Propositions, and therefore we desire to be informed, whether your Lordships in tend that the Commissioners of Scotland shall have any Power in the settling of all Forces by Sea and Land in this Kingdom, and what Authority they shall have.
We do conceive, that the Authority of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, and in both Kingdoms, is clearly expressed in our Propositions: By which it doth appiar how they are to act as several or as joynt Commissioners. And if your Lordhips shall propound any Objections against our Propositions concerning the Militia of both Kingdoms, we are ready, upon Conference, to give your Lordships Satisfaction.
We desire to know, whether in that Part of the Proposition, wherein the Commissioners of both Kingdoms are appointed to meet as a joynt Committee, and to receive Instructions in the intervals of Parliament from the Commissioners for the Preservation of the publick Peace, your Lordships mean the Commissioners to be nominated according to these Propositions, or the (fn. 24) Commissioners intended by the Act of Pacification, or what other Commissioners; and what Jurisdiction you intend the said Commissioners of both Kingdoms shall have, by he Power given them to hear and determine all differences that may occasion the breach of the Articles of the Peace, according to the Treaty, and by what Law they shall proceed to hear and determine the same.
We intend that the Commissioners are to be nominated according to the Propositions, and are to proceed in such a manner as is therein expressed, and if your Lordships shall make any Objection hereupon, we are ready, by Conference, to give you Satisfaction.
For further Answer to your Lordship's second Paper, we conceive that the matter of the Jurisdiction to be exercised by the Commissioners is expressed in the Proposition, and for the manner of exercising that Jurisdiction, and by what Law they shall pro ceed to hear and determine the same are to be settled by the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively.
We desire to receive a perfect and full Answer from your Lordships to our (fn. 25) first and second (fn. 25) Papers, delivered by us this Morning to your Lordships and whether your Lordships intend, that the Commissioners of Scotland shall have any Power and Authority in the settling all Forces by Sea and Land in this Kingdom, and what Authority they shall have; and whether the Advice or Orders of the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, shall have any influence upon the Affairs of this Kingdom, and what Authority they shall have; and whether the Advice or Orders of the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, shall have any influence upon the Affairs of this Kingdom, or the Commissioners to be named according to these Propositions, otherwise than as the said Advice or Orders shall be approved and confirmed by the two Houses of Parliament of England; and what Jurisdiction you intend the Commissioners shall have who are to determine all differences that may occasion the breach of the Articles of Peace.; and by what Law or Rule they shall Proceed, Try, and Judge, in the hearing and determining the same; and it is most necessary for us to desire Satisfaction from your Lordships to these Particulars in Writing, since the Answer we shall give to your Lordships to these Particulars in Writing, since the Answer we shall give to your Lordships upon so much of your Propositions, will very much depend upon our clear understanding your Lordships in these Particulars, it being agreed between us, that nothing shall be binding, or taken as agreed upon, but what shall be in Writing on either Part.
We conceive there is full Answer already given by us in (fn. 26) several Papers of the 14th of this Instant, to the former parts of our Paper, delivered in on the 15th Day, and to the latter part, what Jurisdiction the Commissioners shall have, who may determine all Differences, that shall be by breach of the Articles of Peace, and by what Law and Rule they shall proceed to hear and determine, the same is clearly set down in our (fn. 27) further Answer of the 16th of this Instant, to your second Paper delivered in to us the Day before.
We had great Reason to desire a perfect and full Answer from your Lordships, to our first and second Papers delivered by us to your Lordships on the 15th of Feb. and we desire your Lordships to consider how difficult a thing it is for us, to give your Lordships a satisfactory Answer to your Propositions, as they relate to either, or both Kingdoms, or to the Power of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, as they are to be a joint Committee to hear and determine all Differences, according to the Instructions from both Houses of Parliament of England, or the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, before your Lordships are pleased to inform us, whether you intend the Commissioners of Scotland shall have any Power or Authority in the settling all Forces by sea and Land in this Kingdom, and what Authority they shall have; and whether the Advice, Instructions, or Orders of the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, shall have any influence upon the Affairs of this Kingdom, or the Commissioners to be named according to those Propositions, otherwise than as the said Advice Instructions, or Orders shall be approved and confirmed by the two Houses of Parliament of England; or what Jurisdiction you intend the Commissioners shall have, who are to determine all Differences that may occasion the breach of the Articles of the Peace; and by what Law or Rule they shall Proceed, Try and Judge, in the hearing and determining the same. In all which Particulars we are very sorry that we can receive no Answers from your Lordships, for want whereof we may fail in giving your Lordships so satisfactory Answers to your Propsitions, as otherwise we might be enabled to do.
'It is clearly express'd in our Propositions delivered to your Lordships, that all Forces by Sea and Land in this Kingdom are to be settled by the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and in the Kingdom of Scotland, by the Estates of the Parliament there; and we conceive that the Advice, Instructions, or Orders of either Kingdom, are to have no influence upon the Affairs of the other, but such as is and shall be mutually agreed upon by the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland; and for the Jurisdiction of the Commissioners, and by what Law or Rule they shall proceed, we have given your Lordships a full and clear Answer thereunto, in our Paper (fn. 28) of the 15th of February.
In the 12th Proposition your Lordships desire an Act to be passed for Confirmation of the late Treaty, for the settling of the Garrison of Berwick of the 29th of November 1643. which relating to the Business of the Militia, we hold it necessary to see before we can make our full Answer upon the whole, and desire it accordingly of your Lordships.
We desire to know, whether by the joint Power mentioned in your Lordships Propositions to be given to the Commissioners for both Kingdoms, to preserve the Peace between the Kingdoms, and the King, and every one of them, your Lordships do intend any other than Military Power for suppressing Forces only, which is expressed after in a distinct Clause by it self; And if your Lordships do intend any further Power, that your Lordships would declare the same in Certainty and Particular.
'We conceive the Power of the Commissioners, mentioned in the 17th Proposition, is there fully expressed to preserve the Peace betwixt the Kingdoms, to prevent the Violation of it, or any Troubles arising in the Kingdoms by breach of the Articles, and to hear and determine all Differences which may occasion the same, according to the Treaty, and to raise Forces to resist Foreign Invasion, and suppress intestine Insurrections, as is more at large set down in the Propositious, to which we refer your Lordships.
We desire to know whether the Commissioners of both Kingdoms meeting as a joint Committee, the Commissioners of each Kingdom shall have a Negative Voice, so as nothing can be done without their joint Consent in Matters of joint Concernment: And how, and by whom it shall be decided, what are Cases of joint Concernment of both Kingdoms.
'In all Matters of joint Concernment, the Commissioners of both Kingdoms are to act jointly. And when they shall meet as a joint Committee upon such Matters of joint Concernment, the Commissioners of each Kingdom are to have a Nagative Voice; And in doubtful Cases, not expressed in the 17th Proposition, to be of joint Concernment, where the Commissioners cannot agree, whether or no they be of joint Concernment, the Commissioners of each Kingdom are to have a Nagative Voice; And in doubtful Cases, not expressed in the 17th Proposition, to be of joint Concernment, where the Commissioners cannot agree, whether or no they be of joint Concernment, they are to represent them to the two Houses of Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, to be by them determined if they be fitting, and in the intervals of Parliament, if the Cases be such as cannot, without Prejudice to both, or either Kingdom, admit of Delay, we conceive the Commissioners of each Kingdom are to act severally, and to be accomptable for it to the two Houses of parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, at their next fitting.
We desire to know, whether by the Propositions for settling the Forces in Commissioners to be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, such as both Kingdoms may conside in, your Lordships do intend, That the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland shall approve or except against the Commissioners to be nominated for the Kingdom of England, both at present, and from time to time, as the Commissioners shall die, or be removed, or altered.
We conceive it to be plain by the Proposition itself, that the Commissioners of both Kingdoms are respectively to be nominated by the Parliaments of either Kingdom, and neither Parliament hath Power to except against, or approve the Persons chosen by the other, and we are confident there will be no Cause of Exception, but who are chosen by either, will be such as both may conside in.
'We desire to know, whether your Lordships intend by your Propositions concerning the settling of the Admiralty of Scotland by Act of Parliament, to alter the Inheritance of any Person, which is already settled by the Laws of that Kingdom.
'To your Lordships fourth Paper of the 14th of Feb. it is answered, That by our Propositions for settling the Admiralty of Scotland by Act of Parliament, it is intended that the Admiralty and Forces at Sea, &c. shall be settled in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fittest, for the Safety and Security of that Kingdom: And as touching the Inheritance of any Person which is already settled by the Laws of that Kingdom, the Estates of Parliament will do that which is agreeable to Justice.
We desire to know, whether the Papers delivered to us touching the Militia contain all your Lordships Propositions touching the Militia of England and Scotland; and if they do not, that your Lordships will deliver the rest, that we may make our Answers upon the whole.
'Whatsoever is contained in the Propositions concerning the Militia of England and Scotland, is delivered in to your Lordships, except the 23d Proposition, and the last Article in the 26th Proposition, which are reserved for their proper Place.
We had no purpose in our * Answer delivered by us to your Lordships on the 6th of February, to divide our Answers concerning the Militia of the two Kingdoms, otherwise than in point of Time, and till we might receive Satisfaction from your Lordships, concerning the Powers to be given to the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, and the other Particulars mentioned in our Papers, since delivered to your Lordships, wherein we are not as yet satisfied by any Papers delivered by your Lordships to us. Our further Answer to those Propositions concerning the Militia, is, That we are willing and do agree, that the like course shall be taken and observed touching the Militia of the Kingdom of Scotland, as is offered in our said Paper of the 9th of February, and as shall be hereafter agreed on for the Kingdom of England, which we conceive to be a full security for the performance and observation of all Articles, which shall be agreed upon between us in order to a blessed Peace; which we are so desirous may be punctually and exactly observed, that we are willing that his Majesty be desired to take a most solemn and strict Oath, for the full Observation thereof; and like wise that all Persons of any immediate Trust, by Office or Attendance on his Majesty, and any other whom ye shall think fit, shall take such Oath, for the due observance of the same, with such reasonable Penalties as shall be proposed by your Lordships, and agreed to by us; in which we believe we shall not differ with your Lordships, being willing that whatsoever shall in the least degree infringe the Agreement which shall be made between us, may be looked upon and accounted as most pernicious Enemies to the King and Kingdoms: And if it shall be thought necessary to make any additional settlement of the Militia, with a general reference to the good of the Kingdoms respectively, we desire the same may be done after the Peace established, by the joint Consent of his Majesty and the two Houses of Parliament in England, and his Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively; and as we shall desire and endeavour to remove all Occasions that may interrupt the Peace and Tranquility of that Kingdom and a perfect Amity with them, and shall not desire any change of, or to intermeddle in their Laws or Government, or give them cause to apprehend any Disturbance or Violation of them from this Kingdom, so weare obliged with all tenderness to preserve the Honour, Dignity, and Constitution of this Realm. And therefore as we are satisfied, we cannot consent that any Persons authorized by the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, or any Advice from thence, shall have any influence upon the Militia of this Kingdom, or further interpose in the Affairs of this Kingdom than is already provided by the Act of Pacification. And we offer to your Lordships Consideration whether unless there could be an Union of the Laws of both Kingdoms, such a mixture of Power, as is now proposed, and the influence thereof, both upon Marital and Civil Affairs, may not prove very inconvenient and prejudicial to both Kingdoms, and give cause of Jealousies to each other, to the Disturbance of that mutual Amity so much desired; but if this intermingling of of Power in both Kingdoms shall be insisted on by your Lordships, we propound that the same may be settled, as (after a Peace established) shall be agreed by the joint Consent of his Majesty, and both Houses of Parliament of England, and of his Majesty, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, and if your Lordships shall insist on any thing further for necessary security, we shall apply our selves to the Consideration thereof, if we shall have further Time so to do, according to our desires grounded upon his Majesty's Letter.
'We do conceive that we have in our former Papers punctually satisfied your Lordships in all you desired to know, concerning the Powers of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, and the other Particulars mentioned by your Lordships; and what your Lordships now offer concerning the Militia of the Kingdom of Scotland, that the like course shall be taken in it, as is expressed in your Lordships Paper of the 6th of Feb. to be observed for the Militia of this Kingdoms; your Lordships may remember that in our Answer to that Paper, we told your Lordships it was differing from what we had proposed, and unsatisfactory to our just and necessary desires for securing the Peace of the Kingdoms, and it cannot be expected that what was so then for the Kingdom of England, should now be thought other for the Kingdom of Scotland. And though both Kingdoms be now united in the same Cause, and labouring under the same Dangers, and therefore necessitated to a mutual and reciprocal assistance of each other, had proposed a joynt Remedy and Security by that Commission desired in our 17th Proposition, we find your Lordships say, that (as yet you are satisfy'd) you cannot consent unto it; to which we answer, That we believed we had given your Lordships such convincing Reasons as might have satisfyed you, and we doubt not but they may, if you will recollect your Memories concerning them, and rightly weigh them. This being the last day we are to Treat upon this Subject, it cannot be expected, and, as we conceive, it is altogether needless to use any more Arguments; we do therefore desire your Lordships will be pleased now at the last, to give us your full and positive Answer to our Demands as we have often already pressed your Lordships. And whereas your Lordships do propound, that if we shall further insist upon the uniting of the Powers of both Kingdoms, it may be done after the Peace is established, we desire your Lordships to consider that it is demanded by us in order to a Peace, and a chief and most necessary means for the attaining an establishment of it. And we further observe, that your Lordships have given us no Answer at all to our 15th Proposition; which we do likewise insist upon, and desire your Answer.
If your Lordships had punctually, or in any degree, satisfy'd us in what we desire to know concerning the Powers of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms; and the other particulars mentioned by us, we had not troubled your Lordships with so many Questions, to most of which we could receive no other Answer than the referring us to the Propositions themselves, upon which we grounded our Questions. And we conceive that your Lordships Propositions on the Militia, upon which you still insist, have in Truth appear'd upon Debate to be most unreasonable in many particulars; as that the Persons to be intrusted with the Militia should be Nominated only by the two Houses, and that his Majesty who is equally to be secured, that the Peace should not be broken, should Name none: That the Power given to the Commissioners shall be framed and altered as occasion serves by the two Houses only; and that his Majesty, who is so much concerned therein, shall have no Negative Voice as to such Powers, but is absolutely excluded, and that the Time should be unlimited: So that his Majesty for himself and his Posterity, should for ever part with their peculiar Regal Power of being able to resist their Enemies, or protect their good Subjects, and with that undoubted and never denied Right of the Crown, to make War and Peace: And in no Time to come, his Majesty and his Posterity should have any Power to assist their Allies with any Supplies of Men tho' Volunteers, or ever more to have any Jurisdiction over their own Navy or Fleet at Sea, and so Consequently must lose all Estimation and Confidence with Foreign Princes. And many other Expressions in the said Propositions do either signify what we find your Lordships do not expect, or intend, or at 'east are so doubtful, that the clear sense thereof is not evident to all Understandings; as by the literal sence of your Propositions neither the Sheriffs of Counties, or Justices of Peace, and other legal Ministers, may raise Forces by the Posse Comitatus, or otherwise to suppress Riots, and remove forcible Entires, or to perform the other necessary duties of their Places, without being liable to the Interpretations of the Commissioners for the Militia, that such Forces are raised, or Actions done, for the sturbance of the publick Peace; as likewise all Civil Actons and Differences may be comprehended within those Propositions or be tryed before the said Commissioners; neither of which we believe your Lordships intend should be.
And therefore we have in our Answers proposed, what we thought would be agreeable to the matter and end of those Propositions, that is, a reasonable and full security, for the observation of the Articles of the Treaty, which, according to what we have offered, cannot be broken on either part without evident prejudice and danger to that part which shall endeavour the breaking thereof. And that the Memory of these unhappy Distractions may be forgotten as soon as may be, that the Time of this settlement may be limited to three years, which by the blessing of God, will be sufficient to beget a good Understanding between his Majesty and all his People. And that the 15th Proposition, and all the other parts of your Lordships Propositions, being not at all necessary to the present Union and Reconciliation, may be deterred till after the Peace established, to be settled by his Majesty. jesty, and the two Houses of Parliament in England, and his Majesty, and the Estates of the parliament in Scotland respectively. But if your Lordships shall not think this way of Nomination of Persons to be Commissioners, or the other proposed likewise by us, in our Paper of the 6th of February, for the Agreement of the Commissioners between your Lordships and us to be equal, we shall gladly receive any more equal way from your Lordships, since it is apparent, that that already proposed by your Lordships, and which you insist upon in Terminis, is not fit to be consented to for the Quiet and Peace of the Kingdom, presuming that you will think the Security ought to be mutual, as the Fears and Jealousies are mutual. And we are most confident, that his Majesty so much desires to give all reasonable and fit Security on his part, that the Agreement and peace to be now made, shall be inviolably observed: That as he will Name no Man for this great Trust, against whom there can be just exception, (if the Persons are Named equally between Him and You) so if the whole Nomination were left to him, he would pitch only upon such as both Kingdoms might have great cause to conside in, and we believe might give full satisfaction to your Lordships. And therefore we hope your Lordships will believe, that the reason we consent not to your Propositions, is, because we conceive them destructive to the end for which they are proposed, Justice, Peace and Unity; and not that we deny to consent to any reasonable Security, for Observance of the Agreement to be made, of which we will always be most tender, with regard to all Persons concerned.
This was the last Paper delivered in the last of the six days touching the Militia, but that being taken up again, in some part of the two last days of the Treaty, as those of Religion and Ireland also were, their Commissioners upon their breaking up of the Treaty about two of the Clock in the Morning, after the 22d of February, gave in a Paper intended for an Answer to this Paper, which nevertheless relates to the Paper here next following, delivered by them the 21st of February, mentioning a limitation of Time for seven Years, and for that cause is herein set down after that Paper, and as their last of that Subject; and the Papers upon that Subject, delivered in the mean time, in the two last days, are these following.
Whereas your Lordships have in several Papers much insisted, that the Commissioners mentioned in the 17th Proposition, should be for a limited Time, that your Lordships might better give a full Answer to our desire concerning the Militia, though we conceive the Reasons we have given, might have satisfied your Lordships for the Time to be unlimited, yet to manifest our earnest Desires of Peace, we propose to your Lordships the Time for the said Commissioners, to be for seven Years, from the Time of the passing the Act for the Militia. And that after the Expiration of such Term, the Militia of the Kingdom to be settled and exercised in such manner, as shall be agreed upon by his Majesty and the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and by his Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, and not otherwise.
At the same time the Scotch Commissioners, from themselves apart, delivered in this Paper signed by their own Secretary only, all the other Papers being signed by two Secretaries, for the English and Scotch Commissioners.
We the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, do declare that our consent to the Paper given in this Day concerning the limitation of the Power of the Militia, in Commissioners according to the 17th Proposition, to continue for Seven Years, from the time of the passing of the Act for the Militia; and after the Expiration of that Term, to be settled in such manner as shall be agreed upon by his Majesty, and the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and by his Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, and not otherwise, is to be understood as followeth: That we will represent the same to the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, or their Committees, to which we are confident they will assent, as that which is conceived to conduce to a happy Agreement, and settling of a firm and blessed Peace.
We have hitherto conceived, that this Treaty hath been betwixt us that are appointed Commissioners by his Majesty, and your Lordships, the Commissioners from the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and your Lordships the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, jointly and not severally: But finding that your Lordships, the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, have delivered to us a dinstinct Paper, signed only by your Secretary, of the 20th of February, concerning the Militia, and that not concurring with the other joint Paper, delivered and subscribed by both your Secretaries upon that Subject that Day, We desire to know whether the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland have a Negative Voice, or have not Power to conclude, without farther Power to be granted, from the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, and expect in this Treaty to be severally Treated with; and after your Lordships Answer to this Paper, we shall be able to give your Lordships a farther Answer to your joint Paper of the 20th of February.
'The Treaty is betwixt us that are the Commissioners of the Parliaments of both Kingdoms jointly, and not severally; and your Lordships the Commissioners from his Majesty, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, did joyn with the Committees of the two Houses of the Parliament of England, in giving in the other joynt Paper concerning the Militia, delivered yesterday, subscribed by the Secretaries, but seeing it contains an Alteration, limiting the time to seven Years, which in the former Propositions agreed to by both Parliaments is indefinite: They did declare, that they are confident the Parliament of Scotland will assent thereto, and they have shewed your Lordships sufficient Power to conclude any thing by them agreed unto.
We cannot rest satisfied with your Lordships Answer to our Paper delivered to you this Day, concerning your Lordships the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, it being indeed but a Repetition of your Lordships Paper, and no Answer to ours thereupon; and it being very necessary for us to know, whether the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland have a Negative Voice, and whether they have not Power to conclude, without farther Powers to be granted from the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland; upon the Answer to which, we must the rather insist, because your Lordships last Paper gives the Reason of the distinct Paper delivered to us, from the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland to be, because the limitation of Time now offered, differs from the Propositions agreed on by both Parliaments, in which the Time is indefinite, which seems to us to intimate, that your Lordships, who are the Commissioners from the Parliament of Scotland, have not Power to consent to any Alteration from the said Proposition, without first acquainting the Parliament of Scotland, although the other joynt Paper, delivered upon that subject, be signed by both your Secretaries; and thereby it is evident, that it much concerns us to know, whether the said Commissioners have a Negative Voice in this Treaty, For the matter of your Lordships Paper concerning the limitation of Time for the Militia to seven Years, it is not possible, by Reason of this shortness of Time for the Treaty (it being Ten of the Clock this Night when your Paper was delivered) to give your Lordship, a full Answer, it being necessary for us to receive Satisfaction from your Lordships in Writing, or by Conference, whether by the Words, And not otherwise, your Lordships intend, that after the Expiration of the Time limited, his Majesty shall not exercise the legal Power, which he now hath over the Militia, before the same be agreed upon, by his Majesty and the two Houses of the Parliament of England, and by his Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively, for which Resolution and Debate, we heartily wish the Time were sufficient, being very willing to give your Lordships all reasonable Satisfaction. And therefore we do propose to your Lordships, that if the Treaty may not now continue, it may be adjourn'd for such Time as you shall think fit, and not totally dissolved, but again resumed, which we propose as the best expedient now left us for the procuring of a blessed Peace, and by it, the Preservation of this now miserable Kingdom from utter Ruin and Desolation.
After this, about Two of the Clock the next Morning, they gave this Paper following, which is here mentioned, to be delivered upon their breaking up the Treaty, and intended for an Answer to the Paper of the 17th of February No.129.
'We conceive, if your Lordships would weigh our Demands concerning the Power of the Commissioners of both Kingdoms, you will be satisfied with our Answers to your several Questions; where any doubts were of the Expressions we did explain them, and where the Propositions were so clear, as they could bear no doubtful Sence, we did refer your Lordships to the Propositions themselves. And we conceive our Demands concerning the Militia.to be most reasonable, and all Objections made against them to be by us removed; and why your Lordships should insist the Commissioners should not be nominated by the two Houses only, and his Majesty, who is to be equally secured, should Name none, we much marvel at, when you may well consider this Power was not to be exercised by the Commissioners, until the Peace had been concluded upon this Treaty, and then his Majesty had been fully secured by the Laws of the Kingdom, and by the Duties and Affections of his Subjects, neither could the Commissioners do any thing in violation of the Peace, to the prejudice of his Majesty, contrary to the Trust reposed in them, they having a Rule prescribed which they were not to Transgress, and being removable by both Houses of the Parliament of England, and the Estates of Parliament of Scotland respectively, and being liable for any miscarriage to severe Punishment. And as for their security who have been with his Majesty in this War, an Act of Oblivion is desired to be passed, whereby all his Majesty's Subjects in both Kingdoms would have been put in one and the same Condition, and under the same Production, with some exceptions mentioned in those Propositions; and if the Commissioners had been severally chosen, the Memory of these unnatural Divisions must needs have been continued, and probably being severally Named, would have acted dividedly according to several Interests, and the War thereby might be more easily revived, whereas the scope of the Propositions we have tender'd, was to take away occasions of future Difference, to prevent the raising of Arms, and to settle a firm and durable Peace. And to your Lordships Objections, that the Commissioners were to continue without any limitation of Time, although the reasonableness thereof hath been sufficient'y manifested to your Lordships, yet out of most earnest desires of Peace, we have proposed to your Lordships a time of seven Years, as is expressed in our Paper delivered to your Lordships the sift of this Instant.
'And for the peculiar Royal Power which your Lordships mention to reside in his Majesty, concerning the Militia, and to make Peace and War, we cannot admit thereof, or that it is otherwise exercised than by Authority from his Majesty and both Houses of Parliament of England, and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively: Neither are the Commissioners to have Power to make Peace or War, but that is referred to the 23d Proposition to be treated upon in due Time.
'And for the Navy and Fleet at Sea, the principal means to maintain them, is, to be raised by the free gift of the Subjects out of Tonnage and Poundage, and other Payments upon Merchandise, and the Navy and Fleet being a principal means of our security, the Reasons are the same for them as for the Militia by Land.
'And for what your Lordships alledge concerning Sheriffs, and Justces of the Peace, and other legal Ministers, not to raise a Posse Comitatus, or Forces, to suppress Riots, without being liable to the Interpretation of the Commissioners; we say this is no part of the Militia to be exercised by the Commissioners, but in execution of Justice and legal Process, nor can it be intended to be any Disturbance, but for the Preservation of the Peace; nor can their Power of hearing and determining Civil Actions and Differences, be extended further than Preservation of the Articles of Peace to be made, and as is clearly and plainly expressd in the 27th Proposition.
'And whereas we seek the Militia to be settled in the 15th Proposition, and the other Parts of our Propositions in order to, and for procuring of a Peace, and which are necessary to a present Union, your Lordships defer them untill the Peace shall be established, which delay we hope, upon second thoughts, your Lordships will not judge to be reasonable.
'And when your Lordships do take into serious Consideration, the great Calamities, and how occasioned (to say no more) you cannot think but that we ought to be most careful of preventing the like for the future.
'And seeing all we desire for these so important ends, is limited to a few Years, we ought to insist upon such a Remedy as may be a sitting Cure; and in so doing, we hope we shall be justified before God and Man.
'Wherefore we again most earnestly desire your Lordships, as you tender the deplorable Estates of those bleeding Kingdoms, the settling of Religion, the Honour of his Majesty and the composing these miserable Distractions, that your Lordships will give your full and clear Answer to our Demands concerning the Militia.
This last Paper was delivered about two of the Clock, when the Treaty was at that instant breaking up, and at the same time the King's Commissioners had (upon the like occasion of two Papers of theirs, given in a little before, concerning Ireland, hereafter mentioned) delivered in a Paper, No. 179. that they might give Answer thereto the next Day, dated as of that Day, as had been formerly used, which was not granted; so that in Answer to this Paper, so earnestly requiring an Answer in the Close thereof, it was impossible to give in any Paper at the present, neither would any be received, but at present.