A Collection of the State Papers of John Thurloe, Volume 7, March 1658 - May 1660. Originally published by Fletcher Gyles, London, 1742.
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April (6 of 6)
H. Cromwell lord deputy of Ireland, to secretary Thurloe.
Our address will be forthwith ready, and therewith the picture of the whole army; for we are not content to view the outward appearances of men, but to discern by comparing of observations, what they are inwardly, and what the accidents, to which we are the most liable, may turn them into.
You do well to rid yourselves of the anniversary mischiefs, I mean the cavaliers plottings; and to endeavour, that not so much as any credible rumour of new insurrections should keep the well disposed people in continual fears, and foment hopes in others. I am weary of thinking any more of this unpleasant difficulty, money. The Lord keep us from the ill consequences of too great streights. Our ministers (some from all parts) having met at Dublin, about the improvement and regulation of their maintenance, assure me both jointly and severally, that all under their charge are in a good frame. Something is indeed to be abated for the flattering genius, which usually reigns in colonies, such as Ireland is; and yet I think upon the whole matter, that comparatively things here are in a very good posture. I remain &c.
H. Cromwell, lord deputy of Ireland, to lord Broghill.
My Dear Lord,
Our address had almost been with you, had not the poor major generall's affictions (who has taken the most pains in it) somewhat retarded it. The lord of Warwick's death and your lordship's accidental distemper trouble me very much; but that other stubborn disease, which threatens the inversion of our whole affair, sticks close to me. I said in my last what I could upon that matter, and will henceforward pray, that God will beyond our expectation find out some expedient, &c.
This week about 30 ministers met at Dublin, from all parts of the nation, to contrive the
the improvement and regulation of their maintenance. They all speak good things concerning the peaceable and obedient temper of their respective flocks. The lord stay the hand of
his destroying angell in England, and prepare us for the worst. I remain
H. Cromwell lord deputy of Ireland, to lord Falconbridge.
Our address will now be soon on its way; I wish it may be of good example in England, About 30 ministers have met upon my invitation at Dublin, to treat about the regulation and improvement of their maintenance, which hath hitherto been carried in a mongrel way between salary and tythes.
They do all assure me of the peaceable disposition of their respective flocks in the countrey. The hypocrisy of men may be deep; but really any indifferent spectator would gather from the seeming unanimity and affection of the people of Ireland, that H. H. interest is irresistible here.
'Tis true, we are but a kind of colony; the inhabitants of which places are commonly more compliant with their present governours, more flexible to changes, more dextrous in the practise of flattery than other men; for their being indigent and continual suitors for some advantage or other, pensioners to the publick, such as have tryed their fortunes in many places before, used to the little tyranny of country governours, and always in expectation of changes in their superiours, makes them such; begetting in them a genius, more ingenious indeed, but less ingenuous than those have, who reside nearer the seat of empire. Nevertheless, due abatements being made for all this dress, I still believe his highness interest in Ireland to be full weight.
'Tis well the commissions, which are but in limbo, are not in hell; for my part I cannot believe, that his highness can yet do what he would. The excuse of Packer for Butler seems to me no great paradox; for I guess his highness intended rather a rebuke to the personal contumacy of Packer, than to express distast to his whole party; for I doubt some may perswade his highness he may command those more absolutely, who have been most used to obey him, and to understand the thorough use of such whom he has longest known; which is the reason, as I think, why he chuses to employ such as Butler &c. than others rather of better principles and parts. But I hope these things will in time wear of I remain &c.
Mr. Ed. Swift to secretary Thurloe.
May it please your Honour,
Findinge it very difficult by (reason of your waighty and multeplicity of affaires) to have accesse unto your honour, I am bold by this paper to signisie unto you, that my lord Fleetwood desireth, that you would please as speedily as you can to peruse your answer here with the inclosed, there being a desire by all the persons concerned in the estate mentioned therein, that a speedy settlement might be made of the same by a decree in chancery. Pardon the dareing of him, whoe is
The examination of John Mordaunt Esq; taken the 28th of April 1658, before major general William Gosse, one of his highness's justices of the peace for the city of Westminster and liberty thereof.
This examinant being asked, whether at any time he hath had any conference with Mr. John Stapley about Charles Stuart's invading England, or about any insurrection intended in this land, faith, that he hath been very free with the said Mr. Stapley, but doth not remember, that he hath had any particular discourse with him about any design of the king, meaning Charles Stuart, as to his invading those nations, or of any insurrection intended in this land.
And this examinant being further asked, whether he did at any time tell the said Mr. Stapley, that he was advised by Sir William Walker to engage him in the present design for the bringing in Charles Stuart, he saith, he did never speak of such things to the said Mr. Stapley concerning Sir William Walker, as he can remember.
The examinant being further asked, whether he hath not at any time pressed the said Mr. Stapley to take a commission from Charles Stuart, to serve him as a soldier, saith, that he doth not remember, that he ever had any such discourse with the said Mr. Stapley.
The examinant being further asked, whether at any time he hath had any discourse with Mr. Thomas Woodcock of Lewes about Charles Stuart's invading England, or about any insurrection in this land, he saith, he doth very well know the said Woodcock, but never had any discourse with him of any business of that nature.
The examinant being further asked, whether at any time he hath had any discourse with captain Anthony Stapley about Charles Stuart's invading these nations, or about any insurrection in England, he saith, he did meet the said Stapley at the Half-moon tavern over against the New Exchange, and that it is probable he might discourse of the news of the times, but doth not remember any particulars.
The examinant further saith, that he doth not remember, that he ever had any discourse at any time with any of the Howards concerning the design of Charles Stuart for invading England, or of any insurrection intended in this land.
The examinant being further asked, whether he ever had any discourse with one Hartgill Baron of Croyden, about the said design of Charles Stuart, saith, that he doth not so much as know the said Baron. And being asked, whether he doth not know one Francis Mansell, he saith, he doth not know him.
The examinant being further asked, whether he hath ever had any discourse with one captain Henry Mallory of Preston in Suffex, about Charles Stuart's invading England, or about any insurrection to be made for him in or about London, or any of the adjacent counties, saith, that he doth not know the said Mallory, nor never spake with him that he knoweth of, but saith, it is possible he might speak with him at the Half-moon tavern, where many persons did come into the room, where this examinant was with the said Mr. John Stapley and others that were unknown to him.
The examinant further saith, that he doth not remember, that he hath had any discourse at any time whatsoever about the design of Charles Stuart's invading England, or of any insurrection intended to be made in or about London, or in any other part of these nations for him the said Charles Stuart.
The second information of Mr. William Dyke.
After Mr. Stapley had communicated to us, that Charles Stuart had a design to invade England, and that there was a great party in this nation (amongst which number he himself was one) engaged for him, he did ask Mr. Rivers if he never had heard of it. Rivers his answer was, that he had not, and that he did not think of all men whatever, that ever he (meaning Stapley) would have acted any thing against my lord protector and this present government. To which Stapley replied, there was many grievances and oppressions, that must be removed. I then asked him, if he did not think there would be many more, if a strange people was brought in amongst us? To which he answered, that most of Charles Stuart's army were English and Scotch, and that he had not of others above 2000, which were German horse; and further he said, that there should be an army of those, that engaged for him in England, kept a-foot to counterpoise those he brought in with him. Then Stapley asked Rivers what gentlemen in Kent were engaged in that plot? To which he answered, that he thought the gentlemen thereabouts durst not trust one another; for he had not heard any one speak of it. Stapley replied, that the plot was laid in Kent, and in all places in the nation; and that in Kent there was a great man to command, as he knew, but named him not to us, as I do remember. After this discourse he told us, that he was first made acquainted with it by a gentleman that lives in London; but I never heard him name him, neither did I ever ask him what he was. After all these passages Mr. Rivers told me, he did believe Stapley had a design to insnare us: to which I answered little. As for my self I do seriously protest, I do not know of any man, that is in the least engaged in this plot. Neither had I ever any intelligence from any man, but from Stapley; and I have been so far from engaging in it, that I never did impart my knowledge in it to any man living.
Suss. ss. The examination of Samuel Rose of Lewes in the county of Sussex sadler, taken before me upon oath at** Lewes aforesaid, this 30th of April 1658.
This examinant saith, that about the 4th or 5th of march last he was with major William Smyth of Stenninge at Mrs. Epsleyes house of Truley in the parish of Abberton in Suffex, they being there upon her desire, to appraise her goods, which she was upon the sale of after the death of her husband the said major Smyth. And this examinant having some discourse after supper, and amongst other their discourse the said Smyth told this examinant, that he heard the king of the Scots was coming over with eight or ten thousand men; to this, this said examinant replied, what he would do with so small an army here; the said Smyth answered, the counties would rise, and that this county amongst the rest would for one; and that many gentlemen in the country would engage in it. Upon this, this examinant replied, that he did not believe it; but the aforesaid Smyth replied, yes they would; and told this examinant, that there was one, who would appear in it, whom he little of, which was Mr. John Stapley; and this examinant saying, that he did not think so, the aforesaid Smyth replied, yes he would, and captain Mallory too, with other gentlemen of the country, but named none more. This examinant further saith, that asking the aforesaid Smyth, whether they would rise in Kent also, and he answering they would, and asking this examinant whether he knew any in Kent, that would do any thing in the business; to which he replied, that he had little acquaintance, only there was one Mr. Relph of Cranbrooke, that if there were any acting, he did think he would be in the business; and thereupon the aforesaid Smyth desired this examinant to speak to the said Relph, to know if he would engage therein, and if he would take a commission he would give him one; and this examinant asking the aforesaid Smyth, whether he had any commissions, the said Smyth replied, yes he had. About two days after, the aforesaid Relph came to this examinant at this town about making up an account between them, which they accordingly did; and in discourse between them, the aforesaid Relph asked this examinant what news in the country; and this examinant told him, there was mad news here, for the king was coming over with eight or ten thousand men; and that the said major Smyth told him, there would be a rising in this country, and also in Kent; and this examinant told the said Relph, that if he would engage in it, he did believe he might have a commission from the aforesaid major Smyth: thereupon the said Relph replied, that he would not meddle with no such business, and if he should do any such thing, he would not do it without a commission.
This examinant being further demanded, whether he did not see the aforesaid Relph since they had this aforesaid discourse, saith, that the said Relph came about the 14th day of this month, to see this examinant, hearing he was not well. And being further asked, whether there had not letters passed betwixt them, since their former discourse, this examinant saith, that there has not any letters passed betwixt them since, and further saith not
Suss. ss. The examination of Mary the daughter of William Wadey of Sillington, taken before the commissioners for the safety of the said county the 30th of April 1658.
The said Mary confesseth she found a book on the ground before the door of one Thomas Hampton of Sillington on saturday last before the date hereof, containing about six leaves printed; wherein was written, that any man or woman, that should resist the king, should be cut as small as herbs to the pot. And that a king came into London in woman's apparel with a man waiting upon him in a grey coat, and was in London a fortnight; and when he went thence, he left behind him two letters; the one in his own bed, the other in his man's bed; and said he left them to pick on. And saith, her mother Elizabeth Wadey heard her read part of that book, and bad her lay it up, and according she laid it into the cupboard. And the monday following the said Mary saith, she gave the book to goodwise Hampton's girl; and that now goodwise Hampton hath him. And she the said Mary further saith, that she saw Mr. Peircy Goring, and two other gentlemen, one in black, and the other in black cloaths, with a grey coat, and rode by the said Hampton's door on the same day the found the book; but she found the book before she saw them ride by.
The said Elizabeth saith, her daughter Mary above named told her, that she saw Mr. Peircy Goring and two other ride by in a lane, and she found this book after they rode by; but she, not believing her, did beat her, after she confessed she found it at goodwise Hampton's door. And she saith, before she beat her a girl told her, her daughter Mary found it at goodwise Hampton's door, And she said, she heard her daughter read out of that book, that the king had been in London a fortnight; and when he went away, he left two letters in his bed: but she remembers not she heard any king by name in the book; but she read, that every gentleman, that was for the king, might have one of these books.
The said Elizabeth affirmeth, that she, nor none of her family, to her knowledge, did ever see such a book, nor heard it read. And further she saith, that Jonas Tomson's wife told her, that the said Jonas saw a gentleman on the 29th of April 1658, at the house of William Wadey abovesaid; but who it was he did not know.
The said Mary saith, that she having heard of such a book was found by the said Mary Wadey in Chiltington lane, that the said Mary told her this deponent, that she met Mr. Peircy Goring (and two other gentlemen rod presently after him) in the said lane, and the said Mary found the said book after they were passed by, as she told this deponent; and this deponent saith, she went to the house of William Wadey, and wished him to acquaint some with it, otherwise it might bring trouble upon him: and he answered, he cared not, for the said book was far enough before that time; which was the Wednesday following the Saturday it was found.
The said Mary affirmeth, that she found the book within named, upon Saturday before the date above written, in Chiltington-lane, after she met Mr. Peircy Goring, and two other gentlemen ride through that lane the same day; and that she told Mary Sewell within named, that she so found it, and she read part of it to her mother, and she bid her lay it up in the cupboard, where it lay until Mr. Peircy Goring came for it himself on Tuesday morning following; and he told her he lost it, and gave her two pence to let him have it again; and that her mother saw Mr. Goring go away from their house, and that she laid up the two pence into the box of the said Mary.
She acknowledgeth that such a book was brought in by her daughter Mary, and she will not speak any thing in it, nor knows not any thing; but saith what her daughter speaks abovesaid may be true for what she knows.
Major general Jephson to secretary Thurloe.
I arrived here last night, and have had this day my first audience from the duke, and beene by him very courteousleye and civillye entertained in his court; and find nothing which should give mee occasion to doubt, but that his highnesses propositions may be well receyvd here, especially that which r e l a t e s to K. of Sweden, though even in that I may meete with some opposition. In my journeye hither I soe ordered the matter, that (although I was sayne to ride some Dutch miles out of the way to bring it to passe) I met with count Slippenback, and had three or four houres discourse with him, who hath beene c h i ef ly e m p l o y e d by K. of Sweden in a l l his treat y s belonging to Poland and Branden. By him I find that there is a n a l l i a n c e full y a g r e e d by Brand. both w i t h and Ho. of Austria, but whether invited by the K. of Sweden's s u c c e s s e s or for what other c a u s e I cannot positively say; b u t he at present r e f u s e t h the ratification of that a g r e e m e n t; and I find it generally believed that 315 comming may possiblye p r e v e n t his 190 a s s e n t ing to it. The prince elector seemed very kindly to embrace the assurance of his highnesses friendship, and told me, he would presently give order to some of his counsell to receive my propositions; in which, since I perceive his highnesse seemes to bee soe much concerned, I shall give them in with as much strength as argument, as I am capable of; and I doubt not, give reasons (not very easy to be answered) that it can neither stand with r e l i g i o n nor his c i v i l i n t e r e s t for him to join with K. of Sweden's e n e m i e s, or to give his v o i c e to H. of Austria for the empire. I find that the greatest scruple Brand. make s against K. of S. is his severitye against the reformed religion the pro fessors of it and 328 de uncapable of the m ost 15 113 offices in his dominions, wherein if his highnesse be pleased to give me orders, eyther by a particular letter to K. of S. or a n y other waye, it may put an end to severall differences, which now obstruct a more 406 union. In the mean while I shall doe what lyes in my power to prevent any inconvenience, that may arise thereby. Sir, I know not whether you expect it, or whether your other ministers send you all their speeches and propositions verbatim: whatsoever I have judged fittest for your knowledge, I have sent; and constantly the substance of all my transactions: but trulye, sir, to send you all the papers, whereof a great many are but matters of forme, I have thought to be too great a trouble for you, and would looke but too like formality in mee; but if I knew that it were your pleasure it should be done, I should not fayle obey you. But so much I dare promise, that if it shall please God to bringe mee safe to you againe with my papers, I shall give you a very punctuall account of all things I have acted in pursuance of your commands, since I left England. This afternoone I receyv'd one of the 16th Instant from Mr. Morland, which gave mee the unwelcome newes of your indisposition, which I hope had no long continuance. I hope to dispatch your commands here in ten or twelve dayes at the most, and then to returne directly to the king of Sweden, there likewise to put your orders in execution; and then to have the happinesse not long after to kisse your hands in England, where I shall endeavour to manifest to you how sensible I am of your continued favours in my absence, and how much I think myselfe obliged for ever to bee,
Your most faythfull, and
affectionate humble servant,
H. Cromwell lord deputy of Ireland, to lord Falconberg.
(fn. 1) April 31. 1658.
When your lordship is weary of the trouble of this unequal correspondence, you must find some better evasion, than that of calling what you write sollies, which indeed is not otherwise than as all things are such and vanity. Although there be nothing new under the sun, yet to us novices, for want of years and conversation all things seem such Besides, my lord, I cannot but esteem whatever your lordshipp writes but to be newes, because we worthily admire it: for although we may contemplate and ponder upon all things, yet we can properly admire but only such as are new. Wherefore I say, your lordshipp cannot but write newes, since we cannot but admire what you write. I thank your lordshipp for the articles between the Dane and Swede. I perceive the Swedes conditions are not full, nor so glorious, as was noised; neither is he properly more master of the Sound than he was before; otherwise than as the Dane is become less able to keep it, when the Swede shall think fitt to take it from him. The best news here is, that there is none; and next to that, that the address from our army goes on very smoothly, men being free and unanimous in their subscriptions of it.
H. Cromwell, lord deputy of Ireland, to lord Broghill.
Your lordship not using your character, leaves the understanding of all affairs (as to me) in cyphers, your lordshipp being the only key whereby I read them. Our address runs very smoothly. I hoped we needed not the copy of that from England to draw ours by. I hope we mean as well as they, tho' we use not the word principles and engagements so freely as they do; which, altho' in themselves they are very honest expressions, yet I have observed a sedulous disposition in them, who delight much to cant in them. I beleive the army of England use them in that sense, rather from a custom their tongues have got, than from any Triplo-heath-habit of their affections. Really I can only pray for a happy issue of what is under consideration. Your lordship will be please to impute this brevity to want of matter, rather than to any wearying to converse with your lordship any way whatsoever; for I am unalterably
A letter of intelligence.
Ch. St. D. John D.York D.Gloc. Conde and Marcine is in Bruxels. Ch. St. and his fol
lowers is very poore D.York and his do
rant it out highly; the word is now
altogether for the feilds. Most give over the
hopes of going for England; and indeed
I see noe probabillitie, onely theise few ships that lie
sat oftend. Garrard is sent t o Amster
dam; for as clos as they carry it, the most of my fear
e is from thenc, I mean for ships. Conde is n
owraising what sore hee can, and gi
ves each man six crownes and cot
e: hee alwayes sayeth to my heering, that he
will leave his bonetin England. I dare not presume to
say or give any thing of my opinion untill I s
ee the army drawen together
which now will be shortly. The people that came from B
urbourg and Mardy kruns away from hen
cf after then ever they came to it. The Deanes levie
goeth still on in Holland, and draweth away many of our soldiers from hence. Middleton is
comto Bruxels.Ormond is not returned fro
my your partes Daniel nealean
d N i c k A r m o r e r is w i t h h i m ther is t o
w g o n s i n c o n e P a l d i n g of w a i k f
e i l d and s q u i r e A l b u r g h neere B o r r
o w B r i g g s i n Y o r k s h e i r e All that t
h a t b e e l o n g s t o Ch. St. g o o d s and s e r
v a n t s is g o n this day from hence ther is but few left onely wee that
are in d e b t. Noble Sir, I am alwayes fearfull that myne doe miscary, or that you
are offended, for I have not had the honor to heere from you but once this six moneths. If
I knew any sayled, I should strive to fynd another way. Sir, when you think fitt, I humbly
beg your commands. I am weary of this place: if you think fitt, you may direct yours hither.
I am forced to trouble you so farr, as to tell you, that I have bin sicke this fortnight, and
indeed in want: but sir, bee confident what is above sayed is all: so craving pardon for this
bouldness, I rest,
Sir, Your most obedient and humble servant, Margrat Smith.