House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 07 May 1624

Veneris, 7 Maii, 1624

Edwards.

KNIGHTS, Burgesses of Cornwall and Devon added to the Committee of Edwards' Bill.

Scandalous Ministers.

Scandalous Ministers: - Monday, Two Clock: - All to have Voice: - Court of Wards.

Rivers' Estate.

Mr. Solicitor reports Rivers' Bill. Amendments twice read. -

Ordered, To be ingrossed.

Sir C. Caesar.

Mr. Brooke reports Sir Cha. Caesar his Bill, without Amendments.

Poor.

L. 1. An Act for the better Relief of the Poor.

Relief of Creditors.

Mr. Whitakers reports the Bill to relieve Creditors against such as die in Execution. Amendments twice read. -

Ordered, To be ingrossed.

Vanlor's Estate.

L. 3. An Act to enable and make Good a Conveyance, and Assurance, made of the Manor of Little Munden, in the County of Hartford, by Sir Peter Vanlor, Knight, Sir Cha. Caesar, Knight, and Dame Anne, his Wife, to Edmund Woodhall, Esquire, and his Heirs, and to establish the said Manor upon the said Edmund Woodhall, and his Heirs, according to the said Conveyance: - Upon Question, passed.

Burneby 's Estate.

Sir Rich. Burneby to sell the Manor of Watford, and divers Pastures in Sillsworth, in the County of Northampton, for Payment of Debts, and raising of Portions for younger Children. -

The House divided, upon the Question.

Noe, 104. Yea, 99.

The Bill rejected.

Grievances - Bishop of Norwich.

Sir Edw. Cooke reports from the Committee of Grievances, a Complaint against the Bishop of Norwich. - The Charge great, and strange; of Four Parts: 1. The City of Norwich having 34 Parishes, he sent for the Preachers of the City, and told them, they had Preaching enough, and the Morning Preaching needless: Wished them, to cease that Morning's Exercise. This aggravated by divers Circumstances : - A Letter written to him by the Metropolitan, about the King's Pleasure for preaching; after this, this Inhibition: The Cathedral Church in the Elbow of the City: Not above 2000 can hear: Yet all to come thither. - About 20,000 People in Norwich. -

Then came up Images, and Crucifixes, counted Laymen's Books. Lord Bishop blessed those, that set up those Ornaments. - A Dove on the Font, fluttering over the Water, to sanctify it. - 18 Edw. III. num.32. the Commons dealt with the Majorites: - Complained, they had not spiritual Food. Cardinals put into Churches Shoe Makers, and Taylors. Quinquagesimo Edw. III. called Bonum Parliamentum, a Complaint of the Pope's Usurpation : Not feeding the Flock. - Rome called, That sinful City; and that all the Ill, that hath befallen this Kingdom, hath come from thence. - 17 Rich. II. 11 Hen. IV. and a great many more Precedents. So that this Complaint proper for this Place. -

3. Extortion. By Orders of the Archbishop, and by their own Canons, the Fees set down. These very much exceeded. -

4. No Institutions now registered: Which is very dangerous for Disherison. - Have not heard his Defence. - Quadragesimo octavo Edw. III. inter Brevia, a Complaint against the Bishop of Hereford, for Non-residency, not lying within his Diocess. All Bishops ought to be resident, unless they be in the King's Service. Where the People are not taught, the King hath but half Subjects. The readiest Way to make Rebellions. - The Committee thought it worthy to transmit it up unto the Lords.

Resolved, upon Question, without a Negative, That this Matter shall be transmitted up to the Lords. Sir Edw. Cooke to do it: And a Message to be sent to the Lords for a Conference about it.

Mr. Coryton : - One Thing omitted in the Report; his Enjoining certain Men Penance, for hearing their own Minister catechise, and sing Psalms, after Evening Prayer. - This fit to be presented.

Mr. Whitaker: - This no more, but the Minister of the Parish, after Sermon, catechised his Children, and examined them, what they remembered of the Sermon. These Men, being Neighbours, came in to hear it.

Mr. Recorder: - This most fit of all to be presented to the Lords, and to be rung loud in their Ears. The strangest Thing, that ever was heard of, to come from a Bishop. - Not to have it said, that such a Thing came into this House, and we slighted it over. - These Men did no more, but what every honest Christian ought to do.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - This done by a Bishop, when we all groaned under the Insolency of the Papists. - To have this Circumstance of Time considered.

Resolved, This Matter shall also be presented to the Lords, with all his due Circumstances; and that also of injoining Men to pray to the East; and such other

Ceremonies, as are not warranted by any Law, or Canon; for which Men were excommunicated, and made pay great Sums of Money.

Sir Tho. Jermyn: - To have a wary Proceeding in this. To have it tendered to this House in Writing, before it be presented.

Resolved, These Heads shall be presented to the House To-morrow Morning, before they be transmitted to the Lords.

Courts of Justice. - Lady Darcy's Case.

Sir Rob. Philips reports from the Committee for Courts of Justice, Three: 1. The Petitions. 2. The Proceedings on them : 3. The Direction of the Committee. - 1. The Petition of the Lady Darcy. In that a Recital of her Husband's dying seised of the Manor of Sutton in Surrey, with the Advowson : A Grant made to her, and another, by the Court of Wards, of the Body and Estate. August 21, the Incumbent died. She presented her Clerk to the Bishop, but the Church full; for the Lord Keeper, 3 Septemb. presented Doctor Grant, the King's Chaplain. She was advised to seek her ordinary Course, by a Quare impedit; which was denied by the Cursitor; who said, the Lord Keeper gave Direction for it. - Sued to the King - Desires of this Assembly to have Relief. This Petition retained by the Committee. Parties on both Sides appeared, and Council. -

Came into Question, whether an original Writ might be stayed. Lawyers vouched some Precedents for it in Chancery. Committee concluded, these were not proper in the Cause, and not to be followed. Desired an Accommodation of this Business, between the Lady, and the Doctor: Gave a Time for it: Clearly of Opinion, that the Lady had lost her Right, and the Heir, doubtful for him. - Received a Petition from Doctor Grant: - Made Four-Offers : 1. Would willingly go to a Trial with the Lady, without taking Advantage of Lapse of Time : If that could not be, would pass an Act of Parliament, to set her in statu quo : 3. Would refer it to Four Judges: 4. To Six Lawyers of this House : - If they should say the Right was hers, he would resign. - Had an Answer from the Lord Keeper, of Two Parts: 1. For the Denial of the Quare impedit; not his Purpose to justify it, but to extenuate his Proceeding therein. - A Question between theTwo Courts: No good Correspondency between the Judges : Presently after his coming into the Place : Neither Corruption, nor Malice, in his Proceeding : Offered a Living, equivalent to this, to the Lady: Would satisfy the Lady, by any Means this House should direct; and would labour a Grant from his Majesty, to settle the Heir: Had never before, nor never would do the like : Returned Thanks to the House, for their favourable Interpretation of this his Error. Lady Darcy gave a negative Answer to all. - She had appealed to this House ; could find no better Judgment; and to that she would stand. Committee took Two Things into Consideration ; the Lady's particular, and the publick. For the first, they thought it the safest Way to put in a Bill. She was satisfied with this Answer. For the second, the Denial of the Writ; divers Propositions made: At last resolved, to present it to the House, without any Opinion of theirs, touching the Offence and Error of the Lord Keeper. - Was directed to report the whole narratively to the House.

Mr. Brooke : - Never had any Man's Person in Admiration, for Advantage. - Hath read in the Law, that there is a Market-overt of the Law, the Common Pleas ; and a Shop of Justice, the Chancery. - No Doubt, a great Fault, to deny an original Writ in the Chancery, but not so much, as to deny a Fine in the Common Pleas. Just Excuse, and Offer of Amends, doth much extenuate the Offence; which is but singular. Lord Keeper might do this to vindicate his Right from the Usurpation of the Court of Wards. - Cannot stand with the Gravity of this House, to transmit a Man for One single Offence. This will be Admonition enough to him, that it hath been thus agitated in this House.

Sir James Perrot: - The Offence of the Lord Keeper the Denial of an original Writ. Some Excuses alleged : 1. Done within a short Time after he came in. - Ignorantia facti, in some Cases, excuses ; not ignorantia juris, in a Judge. -

Doctor, magis blandus, quam beneficus. - AnotherExcuse offered; a Contention between both Courts. This rather aggravates, than extenuates, the Offence. Being his own Case, he ought not to have stayed Justice. - This, though a sole Fault, yet a great Fault ; but he thinks it not a sole Fault. - He is informed, that there are more Faults, of the like Kind, objected to the Lord Keeper. -

To have that examined. Then it will not be a sole Fault. Two other Petitions before the Committee, against the Lord Keeper, Mrs. Thomas, and Sir Fran. Fuliambe. - To have these Two fully heard To-morrow, and then to grow to a Resolution of this. In the mean time to have the Cursitor examined about the other, whether another Quare impedit, or Ne admittas, was not denied.

Sir Tho. Hoby: - To begin in Order with the Parts of the Reports. First to right that, which is amiss in the Inheritance; and then to consider of the Fault. - To have the Bill read.

Mr. Price: - No Corruption, nor ill Intention, appears in the Keeper. Difference between Things evil in themselves, and evil by Success. Lord Keeper came young to this Place, and from a strange Speculation, and found this Precedent there. - To have some Course taken to right the Lady, and to limit that vast Court.

Mr. Solicitor: - Thinks the Answer of the Lord Keeper very fair and satisfactory, if it be rightly understood.

Darcy's Advowson.

L. 1. An Act to settle Josse Glover, Clerk, Presentee of Dame Grace Darcy, Widow, and George Wilmore, Esquire, Committees of the Body and Lands of Edw. Darcy Esquire, his Majesty's Ward, in the Church of Sutton, in the County of Surrey, and to re-settle the Inheritance of the said Advowson in Edward Darcy, and his Heirs, as appendant to the Manor of Sutton.

L. 2. Act to settle Josse Glover, Clerk Presentee of Dame Grace Darcy, Widow. -

Committed to Mr. Treasurer, Sir Edw. Cooke, Chancellor Duchy, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Fra. Barrington, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Taylor, Sir Jo. Stradling, Sir Guy Palmes, Mr. Alford, Sir Rob. Cooke, Mr. Noy, Sir Will. Massam, Sir Jo. Walter, Sir Jo. Savyle, Mr. Howard, Mr. Jo. Drake, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir Tho. Hoby, Sir Wal. Earle, Mr. Smyth, Mr. Craven, Sir Hen. Poole, Mr. Wainsford, Sir Tho. Cheeke, Mr. Brereton, Sir Tho. Barrington, Mr. Solicitor, Sir Miles Fleetwood, Sir James Perrot : -

To-morrow, Seven Clock, Court of Wards.

Apothecaries.

Apothecaries Bill, - Saturday next.