House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 01 March 1624

Lunae, 1 Martii

Stanere's Nat.

L. 1a. AN Act for Naturalizing of Davyd Stanere.

Best's Nat.

L. 1a. An Act for Naturalizing of Jacques de Best.

Ordinances in Wales.

L. 1a. An Act of Repeal of a Branch of a Statute, made 34 H. VIII. intituled, An Act for certain Ordinances in the King's Majesty's Dominion and Principality of Wales.

Preacher thanked.

Sir A. Ingram moveth, that Thanks may be given, from the House, to Dr. Bargrave, for his Sermon; and that he will take further Pains, to put the same in Print.

Ordered, Sir A. Ingram and Sir Edw. Villyers shall do it.

Jeofayles.

L. 1a. An Act for further Reformation of Jeofayles.

King's Tenants.

L. 1a. An Act for Relief of Patentees, Tenants, and Farmers, of Crown Lands, and Duchy Lands, in Cases of Forfeiture for not Payment of their Rents, or other Service or Duty.

General Issue.

L. 1a. An Act for Pleading the General Issue.

Negotiations with Spain.

Sir Ben. Rudyard: - Thanks to God, for our Meeting here, and to the King, for his great Trust in us, for the greatest Matters of Consequence; the Match, Palatinate - Humbly to advise his Majesty to break off both theTreaties of Match and Palatinate: - And, that the Lords will join with us, in intreating the King to declare both broken; before which Time none of the King's Friends will trust him.

Sir Geor. Moore: - This Cause is of the greatest Consequence he ever knew here. - To give the King our Advice first of the Match. - God only openeth the Eyes.

- Hagar. - This done by the Prince his Journey: - Admired of all: - So his Protection there, both in Soul and Body : So his getting from thence. - No further to treat about the Match. - To respite the Palatinate.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - We have lost so much by Treaties, as to take the English away by the Sword. The last Prince of Wales, that came out of Spayne, brought with him Honour, and Victory ; ours, Security, and Safety. - The long Delays past shew, it will take no Effect, though we desire it: Next, that unfit for us to desire it. This Treaty the best Army, and Gain, to Spayne, and House at Austria. As he hath gotten, so is our Loss. -

For the Palatinate; the Disasters great. Spayne got it, keeps it, by his Indyes. - To go to him, by whom wounded. - -Rome and Spayne Twins. - A diversive War upon Spayne. - To attend, till we hear from the Lords.

Sir M. Fleetewood: - We have suffered by the State of Spayne, pretending a Marriage, but intending the Gain of the Palatinate, Bohemia, &c. not the Match. This plain by the King of Spayne's Letter to Olivares. - Magnifieth the Prince, for his Journey, Constancy in Religion, &c. So the Duke. - To break further Treaty about the Match, as contrary to Religion: 2ly, Against the Honour of our King: 3ly, Against the Peace of our Kingdom. - To petition the King, to proceed no further in any Treaty.

Sir Francis Seymor: - His Majesty's Intentions, in this Match, good, even for Religion and State. Many hundreds seduced to Idolatry by the Spanish Agents. - Attempted the Prince and Duke; who, though young, have persisted constant. - The Palatinate lost by this Treaty. No Match intended by Spayne. Not beneficial to us. They hold us Hereticks : Admit us not Christian Burial. The Portion come to a Pension, and some Jewels. - To end the Treaty; To send home the Spanish Ambassadors.

- So, for the Palatinate, to rest upon his Subjects. - And to petition the King, to put in execution the Laws against Recusants ; and to banish all Jesuits, &c.

Sir Jo. Ellyott : - War only will secure and repair us. - To secure ourselves, by preparing and setting out our own Fleet; and to do this by those Penalties the Papists have already incurred.

Mr. Pymme, - against Continuanceof any Treaty, for Match or Palatinate. - To pray a Conference with the Lords, about a Message to the King about it.

Sir Ro. Hitcham. - Luce clarius, that both King and Kingdom have been deluded. If Gondamar present, would neither put himself upon God, nor the Country; but would suffer judgment upon a Nihil dicit. - The Match and Palatinate Relatives. -

To proceed no further in Treaty of either.

Clearing of Duke of Buckingham.

Mr. Serjeant Crew and Mr. Attorney bring from the Lords a Message intimating, that, where, on Friday last, they had cleared Buckingham from any Blame in his narrative Part, they have thought fit to explain themselves, they meant not to go singly, but if this House thought fit, to join with this House, by a joint Committee, to give the King Satisfaction.

Mr. Alford: - To have first a Report from the Committee, and then to send Answer by Messengers of our own. - Only now to give, by these Messengers, Thanks to the Lords for their Correspondence.

This done by Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Solicitor reporteth from the Committee, about my Lord of Buckingham; and then resolved to go single; and to do this by the Mouth of our Speaker ; and conceived Directions : Which read, and generally allowed.

Sir J. Perrott: - That the Word, " reflecting," is dubious.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - We are only now to agree upon a Message to the Lords, in Answer of the last Message.

A Message agreed to the Lords ; That this House accepteth the Conference; and to desire their Lordships to appoint their Number for a Committee, Time and Place.

The last Committee, for this Business, to deliver this Message. Sir Ro. Phillippes to be the Speaker.

Negotiations with Spain.

Another Message, by Master of the Rolls, Lord Chief Baron, and Mr. Attorney : -

That, in the great Business, propounded to both Houses for their Advices, the Lords desire (if with Conveniency the House may) To-morrow in the Afternoon, at the Hall in Whitehall, this House will give a Conference of a Committee of the whole House; or else, with as much Speed as can be.

Sir D. Digges: - To have the Business more debated, before we accept a Conference.

Sir Edw. Cecill: - As the Business of great Consequence, so the greater Need of Speed. - Spayne loveth to prevent, by beginning with us. - Shall we question or dispute the breaking off this Match, which never intended? - To have every Man wear his Sword in this House. - To sit in the Afternoon, rather than to defer it longer than till To-morrow.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - To send Answer by these Messengers, that we will speed it as much as possible; and, if with any Conveniency we may, will give them Meeting To-morrow in the Afternoon; if we cannot, will send them Answer To-morrow Morning.

Mr. Alford: - The Question, whether we shall be so soon ready, or not. - Persons to be especially appointed to speak, else Confusion.

Chancellor of the Duchy: - We not yet ripe for a Conference.

Mr. Glanvyle: - The Lords have had a Day's Advantage, in regard of our Communion; and we a greater Body, and so move more slowly.

Answer returned by the same Messengers; That, if with any Conveniency we can, will meet the Lords Tomorrow in the Afternoon, as desired ; whereof shall hear from us To-morrow in the Forenoon.

Ld. Keeper.

Mr. Secretary Calvert - a Message from the King, to let the House know, he taketh Knowledge of two Petitions, already delivered in, against my Lord Keeper. - That for these, my Lord Keeper is ready to give Answer; but, forasmuch as not possible for him to remember all Decrees, &c. therefore his Majesty would have no more entertained against him, except for Corruption; wherein would not have him spared.

To meet in Afternoon.

Sir H. Mildmay moveth, Mr. Speaker may meet here this Afternoon.

Negotiations with Spain.

Sir Jo. Strangwayes: - We have to do with the most potent Prince in the World. - To secure ourselves at home, first, by confining the great Recusants to Men well-affected ; which will prevent Spayne's Hopes from them. - That the trained Soldiers may be provided of all Arms, and disciplined, and put in a Readiness. - Fortifications on the Sea-coasts, where need ; as done by Sir Jo. Norrys in the West Parts. - To secure Ireland: Reunite the Princes of Germany. To begin the Maintenance of the War by the Popish Recusants Forfeitures.

Sir D. Digges: - To have a Committee of the whole House, to debate this Business. - Common Lawyers, Civil Lawyers, Land Soldiers, Sea Soldiers, not of the least Use. - This Committee this Afternoon Sir Simeon Steward, accordant, for a Committee. Sir Edw. Sands: - To restrain our Answer to his Majesty's Proposition; which (as he conceiveth by Relation) whether it were fit for him to hold any further Treaty with Spayne, or not. To proceed only to answer this, and not, as yet, to meddle with the Consequences. - Treaties the Spaniards own Game, at which we have played long with them: - Wisheth they have not beat us at it too much. - To give the Lords a Reason of our Advice of breaking, if we so advise. - Not fit, only to yield the King our Opinion, but the Reasons: - And to have these delivered to the Lords at the Conference.

Conference.

Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Hath delivered his Message. -

That the Lords took our Correspondence thankfully. -

Their Number 12, in the Painted Chamber, instantly.

Committee to sit, &c.

Ordered, A Committee of the whole House shall sit this Afternoon, to debate the great Business. This Committee to meet at Two of the Clock, and Mr. Speaker to be present.

Lord Keeper.

Ordered, The Consideration of the Message, about my Lord Keeper, to be respited, till the great Business past; and then to be debated; and an Answer to his Majesty about it.

Journal.

The Committee of Privileges to examine former Precedents, in what Manner the Clerk of this House hath used to take his Notes, and make Entries; and to report the same to this House.

Petition to the King.

Mr. Alford moveth, the Petition to the King at Greenewich, for taking his Sword into his Hand. - Moveth, this may be ready against this Afternoon.

Mariners.

Sir Edw. Seymor: - That Five Ships going out to the East lndies. - Great Want of Mariners. - For Stay of these.

Mr Abbott: - Four Ships now going out: About 600 in all these Ships. - More Prejudice to stay these, than to let them go.

Negotiations with Spain.

Sir Ed. Coke reporteth from the Lords. - A great Respect from them to the House. - My Lord of Canterbury said, that the Matter, delivered by my Lord of Buckingham, led him to what he spake : And that they had freed him from all blame; and was worthy, both of Honour and Thanks. - That he told them, how we agreed in it, and how sensible we were of it. - And that thus much shall be reported to the King, at his Return to London, by the Lord Keeper.

Motion referred.

Sir Ro. Maunsell: - The Motion, made by Sir Ed. Seymor, seasonable to be referred, till the Debate grow upon Matter of War.