Spain: June 1532, 21-30

Pages 462-478

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1882.

This free content was digitised by double rekeying and sponsored by the Arts and Humanities Research Council. All rights reserved.


June 1532, 21-30

21 June. 962. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Wien. Rep.P.Fasc,
c. 227, No. 28.
Three days ago Your Majesty's letter of the 25th ult. was duly received, and in pursuance of the orders therein contained I immediately apprized the Queen of the good remembrance and careful solicitude Your Majesty has of her affairs (cipher:) at which she was exceedingly pleased, begging me to express her gratitude and thanks, and at the same time recommending that since it is quite clear that His Holiness is only trying to delay the sentence, and thus maintain the difference between Your Majesty and this king, that you be pleased to urge the Pope to issue commendatory letters for the execution of the brief decreed at Bouloigne (Bologna), or at least to issue a fresh one not to be revoked by another subsequent one, as he did last time. Which earnest prayer on the part of the Queen I have so often mentioned in my preceding despatches, that I should have considered it unnecessary to reproduce it here, had not the Queen herself expressly commanded me to do so, and had not Dr. Ortiz strongly recommended the step, having lately written [from Rome] that he is only waiting for Your Majesty's commands to solicit and forward the said letters.
(Common writing:) With regard to the complaints laid before the Royal Council of Castille against the new taxes, which these people intended levying on Spanish merchants, I must say that although there was at one time some talk of it, and in consequence thereof the Spanish residents came to me and addressed a petition to the said Council, certain it is that since I myself went to the King and Privy Council, and remonstrated against the measure, there has been no further question about it. I have likewise summoned a meeting of all the Spanish merchants resident in this city to inquire from them whether they had any more grievances to complain of. Their answer was that they had not, except a few of old standing which had often been discussed between Your Imperial Majesty's commissaries and those appointed by this king. Should they, however, shew me hereafter that they have any serious complaint to make I shall not fail to remonstrate in the proper quarter.
The French ambassador came back ten days ago, and presented the King with two fine greyhounds (levriers) in his master's name. I also fancy that the Frenchman has been the bearer of news still more agreeable to this king than the said present, for he has been received, visited, and entertained in a style of unwonted splendour, having immediately after his arrival in this city gone to see the King seven miles from hence, and stayed with him two whole days. On his return the duke of Norfolk, the bishop of Winchester (Gardyner), the dean of the Chapel (Sampson) and Dr. Faulx (Foxe), went altogether to his lodgings, alighted from their horses, and supped with him. Next day they were all in consultation together and transacted business; after which the ambassador returned to Court and came back in the evening, when another conference of the same parties took place, followed by a supper, which was given this time at the house of a Genoese named Lomelino, (fn. n1) so that notwithstanding his great desire of seeing me, as he has sent me word twice, it has been quite impossible for us to meet until this morning that I went and called upon him.
The ambassador at first insisted, trying hard to persuade me of it, that the object of his late journey to France had been no other than to look after his own private affairs, though he admitted at the end (cipher:) that he had undertaken it principally at this king's urgent request, and that Mr. de Rosymboz' visit to Scotland was the chief cause of it. He also owned that he had, at the express desire of this king, warmly solicited his master to use all his influence with the Pope in this matter of the divorce. The ambassador would not tell me more particulars about his mission, but considering the frequent and private conferences held between him and the members of this king's Privy Council, before and after the ambassador's journey to France, I should say that something very important is now going on, and that the ambassador's confession, though reluctantly given, and almost extorted from him, affords us a clue to the whole mystery. I shall, however do my best to get at the truth, for even whilst I was with the ambassador the other day, Dr. Faux came in with a message from the Duke relating, no doubt, to this late business in France, intimating that he wished to speak to him, and inviting him to dine at Westminster (fn. n2); and yet, with all that, I have hitherto been uuable to get at the bottom of this mystery.
I have, moreover, been told by the French ambassador that Lasco had left France without achieving anything respecting the contemplated marriage of the Vayvod in France, and that with regard to the Order [of the Saint Esprit ?] conferred upon him that was only in fulfilment of a promise made to him when he first arrived in France as ambassador of the king of Poland [Sigismond].
The ambassador further said to me that the King, his master, had declined to entertain the overtures of the Genoese and their offers to treat, and that he is quite determined not to have anything more to do with them.
The 50,000 crs. due on All Saints' Day were only paid the other day. This king has also received 12,500 crs. out of the 15,000 which France is bound to pay every year in salt. The contribution was fixed at 10,000 crs. annually, and as it had not been paid for the last three years 30,000 were owing to this country. The sum was to be paid in four instalments; the first of 7,500 has actually been delivered, besides 5,000 more on account of this present year. (fn. n3) The pensions to private individuals have also been paid, especially that to the duke of Norfolk, who, I am told, has sent to the King's treasurer four hackneys by way of tribute.
A rumour is afloat that a certain Grimaldo, now a servant (serviteur) of the French king, but formerly a general at Milan, had recently sent from Paris to Lyons a number of chariots laden with specie, with which to recruit Switzers; but I have been told by the very man who paid down the said pensions that the money really belonged to Grimaldo, who, in order to profit by the exchange, had actually changed 20,000 crs. [into English money], inasmuch as a crown is worth 45 sols in Paris, whereas at Lyons it is only worth 42. The said treasurer, therefore, had given him 10,000 crs., which being mostly in copper (des liars) had filled seven or eight large casks. The ambassador has also assured me that no money has been remitted to Switzerland except the small sum required to pay the interest [on the debt] and the pensions.
(Cipher:) The man whom I sent to spy Camillo's movements has actually followed him into France. The captain who came with him is still in London, but has never gone to Court, or spoken with any of the courtiers. He seldom, if ever, leaves his lodgings, and spends his time playing at backgammon (tictacq). as I have been told by his landlord, who has, at my request, undertaken to watch him and report on his movements.
(Common writing:) With regard to the affairs of Scotland, about which Your Majesty has been pleased to write, I consider that by this time full information has been obtained through the despatches of Mr. de Rosymboz, since whose return from that country I have heard nothing particular, except that on Sunday last this king sent thither a herald, and, as I have been informed by a Scotchman living in this city, there is a very good prospect of peace or renewal of truce between the two countries. The Papal Nuncio who went to Scotland last winter is expected back every day; we shall hear all the particulars from him.
About 12 days ago the bishop of Rochester (Fisher) preached earnestly and strongly in favour of the Queen, (cipher:) in consequence of which he has been in great danger of being imprisoned or incurring some other punishment. He has, it is true, shut the mouths of those who spoke for the King, but nevertheless the Queen receives no better treatment, and therefore it is clear that the remedy lies only in the hands of the Pope. So great, however, is the desire which all in general manifest for a speedy sentence in her case, that several high personages have sent word to her, and to me also, that should the Pope decide and pronounce sentence they will take care that it is executed. In this same declaration Master Taillop (fn. n4) agreed two days before he started for France, whither he is now gone as ambassador, though I do not believe he will remain long, for these people begin already to perceive that he is not so ardent a partisan of the divorce as he was thought at first to be, and the duke of Norfolk has been heard to say several times, "Master Taillop is not very suitable for the charge he has undertaken, being better trained to war than to the management of political affairs."
I beg Your Majesty's pardon if I again urge the settlement of a matter upon which depends, in my opinion, not only the repose of this queen and kingdom, but also that of all Christendom, for the Queen's case once determined, Your Majesty may dispose of this kingdom as much or better than you ever did.—London, 21st June 1532.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
French. Holograph partly in cipher. pp. 5.
22 June. 963. Miçer Miguel Mai and Giovan Antonio Muxetula to the Emperor.
S. E. L. 858, f. 56
B. M. Add. 28,585
f. 28.
They (the Imperial ambassadors) are still trying to keep the Pope on friendly terms with the Emperor. Although His Holiness knows this to be the best course for him to pursue, he is nevertheless managing matters (entreteniendo) so as not to break entirely with France. He says that considering the friendship and alliance which unite him with the king of that country, and that of England, and the dangerous plight in which the affairs of Christendom are, he must dissemble with the latter, and make as if he bore him goodwill, for fear of a rupture, and lest both he and the king of France should withdraw their allegiance, as they publicly threaten to do. This notwithstanding, the Pope says that he will not for one moment cease to consider Your Majesty as his son, and join you for the defence of Christendom and of your mutual dominions.
Indorsed: "Abstract of letters from Miçer Mai and Muxetula of the 22nd of June."
Spanish. Original. pp. 3.
22 June. 964. Miçer Mai to the Same.
S. E. L·857,
f. 170.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 29.
Received the letter of the 2nd of June, and saw the Pope on three consecutive days, treating each time of the various affairs, such as Ferrara, the Council, cardinal Colonna, and duke of Gravina. On all and every one of these points His Holiness made a satisfactory answer to my questions, and seemed pleased with Your Majesty's resolutions. Spoke to him also about the French intrigues and the reports that had reached me of their insisting upon his declaring himself neutral, and, as they do not trust him, giving his nephew, the Cardinal, as hostage. This done, he could go away one fine day, and, they would spread the rumour that he had come with his uncle's consent. The Pope answered, "My nephew is mad." "Yes, that may be,"said I, .but still Your Holiness must make him act otherwise"(está obligado á hacerle tener buen seso).
That is not in my power "replied the Pope; "you know it as well as I do." "I see it very well," said I, "but neither the Emperor, nor the members of his Privy Council, nor his courtiers, nor the Venetians, nor other potentates, who know Your Holiness to be a wise and prudent man, will ever believe that the actions (movimientos) of the Cardinal are those of a madman; they will rather think, and not without reason, that they are done entirely at Your Holiness' suggestion," &c.
With regard to the Swiss cantons, the briefs have been drawn out, and the Verulan (Filonardo) is to take them thither himself. A clause, it appears, has been added to them, in which a reference is made to the league for the protection of Italy. I myself have written to Stephano [da Insola] about it, and sent orders to Naples for that treasury to pay him 1,700 crs. owed to his brother for his services in the last war. The Verulan has also been instructed to make a present to the alderman (escuteto) of Lucerna, (fn. n5) if he should consider it necessary; for that officer has the reputation of being a very useful man, and the French have before now tried to corrupt him, done the same whenever they wanted his services. Have likewise written to captain Sucar (Zuccaro) to take the command of the hackbutiers, and therefore everything in that quarter looks prosperous, inasmuch as the five cantons, knowing that the French ambassador is doing all he can here to prevent the expedition of the bulls of the Sedunense (bishop of Sion), say that they are much offended, considering it an injury done to them. (fn. n6) Already the Frenchman has gone to the Pope and complained that he has made the said five cantons enemies of France.
The Turk, &c.
Some suspect that the Infidel will pass by Hungary and come to Italy by Frigoli (Frioul). There is, however, no authority for this news, except the words of count Hanibal de la Novellara at Venice, who, as is well known, is in the confidence of the French king.
Respecting his contribution in money (socorro) towards the expense of the Turkish war, His Holiness excuses himself on the ground of his poverty. He says that he will get Parma and Piacenza to contribute, but as to himself that he cannot, &c. Nor was it easy either to make him fix the sum which the Church and the Clergy are to give towards it. After rather a tumultuous congregation, in which many foolish and braggart things were said (se dixeron hartas locuras y hartas bellaquerias). it was resolved to furnish Your Majesty and the king of the Romans with 40,000 crs. every month, that sum to be raised by a tax throughout Italy; cardinals to surrender one year's income, or, if they preferred it, to be allowed to sell or mortgage one per cent, of their whole income. I was scandalized at this, for in the first place the sum is considerably less than last time, and in the second, the greater part will naturally fall on us and come out of Milan, Naples, and Sicily.
It appears that at the said congregation of cardinals it was resolved to send one of their number to Your Majesty's camp, to enlist as many Hungarian horse (fn. n7) as he could pay with the above money. Monte and other cardinals wished to have the charge; but it seemed to His Holiness and to me that we should gain in reputation both with the French and with the Venetians by having the Pope's own nephew [Ippolito] appointed. His Holiness made no difficulty to that; on the contrary he was glad of the suggestion, but said that he (Ippolito) was to apply for the post himself if he wanted it.
I hear that after a good deal of negotiation the Pope has offered the tithes to the king of France on condition of his lending his fleet; but the French ambassador has not dared to accept without consulting home first.
Respecting the Turkish fleet nothing certain is known. It is still believed that it will come down to Modon, and that there the commander-in-chief of the forces will open the sealed orders of the Sultan, as is their wont. They have already lost a ship with 20,000 oars and 800 sailors, which, considering the need they have of both oars and crews (chiurma). will reduce by ten at least the number of their galleys. That of the privateers coming from Barbary is estimated at 22; but according to the account of those who were wrecked on the coast of Sardinia, and of another "fusta "captured at Formentera by the galleys of the prince Andrea Doria, they have suffered much, and are greatly diminished in strength. At La Belona the plague was making most dreadful ravages. The Turks were fortifying Patras and all the towns and villages of that coast. At Malta a conspiracy had been detected among the Turks who were working at the fortifications, four of whom had been convicted, executed, drawn and quartered. This intelligence comes from a spy of the Grand Master of Rhodes at Constantinople.
Rodrigo Niño advises that the castle of Clissa and its territory have surrendered to an agent of Luigi Gritti, which piece of intelligence has caused general indignation in Venice against his father (the Doge Andrea Gritti), for besides the harbour of Clissa being the best in the world, it is only 100 miles distant from Ancona; and if the Turk only continue his successes, it is to be feared that he will soon take possession of the two fortified towns which the Venetians have on that coast. There is still another circumstance which makes the advance of the Turks on that coast more formidable than ever; instead of attacking with fury and massacring the inhabitants, as is their general habit, nowadays they proceed slowly, with greater caution, promising people liberty of religion, privileges, franchises, and all manner of good treatment, which would shew that they intend perpetuating their domination in those parts.—Romæ (sic). xix (fn. n8) Junii MDXXXII
Signed: "Mai."
Addressed: "To His most Sacred, Imperial, and Catholic Majesty."
Indorsed: "From Miçer Mai at Rome, the xxii (sic) of June 1532."
Spanish. Original. pp. 5.
22 June. 965. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 857,
f. 166.
B. M, Add. 28,585,
f. 36.
In answer to his two letters of the 2nd and 12th inst., he (Mai) must begin by thanking him (Covos) most warmly for his promise to have him recalled, and allow him to visit Spain.
His despatch to the Emperor will inform him of the state of affairs. Has little to add on the subject, except that Mugectola (Muxetula) is as far off as ever from getting his cardinal's hat. When applied to His Holiness never says "No;" on the contrary, he tells him and Loaysa: "Nobody deserves it better than Muxetula, and I will think of him at the next creation;" and yet time passes and nothing is done, and what is worse the cardinals seem more than ever to be against him (Muxetula), for they have discovered that he is of Jewish descent and not enough advanced in years. If he ever gets it he will have enough to do.
Abbot Gonzaga.—The son and brother-in-law of Granvela. (fn. n9)
In the cause of England the wind, as he has written to the Emperor, is decidedly against us. Everything that is done in it one day seems to be undone the next. Cannot say whether these people (the Pope and the cardinals) think that the best way for each of them to preserve his friends is to remain stationary, or what the cause may be, but the fact is that very little progress is made one way or the other. Has often applied for letters in the Emperor's name for Monte and Ancona, recommending to them the justice and quick expedition of the matrimonial cause, and telling them how pleased and grateful the Emperor would be if they only attended seriously to this business; but the letters have not come, and he (Mai) is afraid that those cardinals will not stir. It is very possible that Ancona, who drinks from all sources (beue de todas aguas). may, after pocketing the 2,000 ducats the Emperor sent him, have received a larger sum from the English, who in these matters are rather lavish of their money, for certainly he does not move as he ought. Let another letter come for cardinal Ravenna, shewing him the great trust the Emperor places in him. Muxe-tula says that if fault there be, it lies with Monte and Ancona; he (Mai) thinks that all three are to blame, for in conversation with Ancona one day, he was heard to say: "Ravenna has no opinion of his own; he always says what others want him to say."
Has not written before because he (Mai) was waiting for the result of the appointment of legate, which now seems decided in favour of cardinal Ippolito de' Medici, so much so that this very morning, in church, some Spanish gentlemen told him that they had actually seen cardinal Triulzio, the French ambassador, and another, (fn. n10) son of Renzo de Cheri (da Ceri), walk up and down one of the saloons of the French embassy very much excited, and from time to time beating the walls with their fists, as if they were possessed. In fact the French have done all they publicly could to prevent the cardinal [Ippolito de' Medici] from accepting the office, telling him that it was a preconcerted plan to keep him away from Florence. Seeing that this would not do, they had persuaded him to ask for so many things that the Pope could not stand it. No sooner did he (Mai) hear of it than he went straight to the Pope and informed him. The blow, therefore, has been parried and everything settled, Ippolito will go as legate, &c.
Spoke to His Holiness respecting the marriage of the duchesina de Camarino (Giulia) and the duke of Sulmona, (fn. n11) and he gave hopes of it. The Emperors letter to the mother was also forwarded.
Cardinal Colonna has answered his request for money to help the Swiss cantons by saying that he cannot promise, for he has none to dispose of.—Rome, 22nd June 1532.
Signed: .Mai."
Addressed: "To the High Commander of Leon, the Emperor's Principal Secretary."
Spanish Holograph. pp. 4.
25 June. 966. The Emperor to cardinal Colonna.
S. E. L. 1,559,
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 42.
Has been informed that a servant of the prince of Melfi has been to see the king of France. He is now at Rome on his return from that country, and is going back to Melfi. He (Colonna) is to set spies on him, apprehend him, and have him questioned about his negotiations in France, and then wait for further orders.—Ratisbon, 25th June 1532.
Spanish. Original draft by Idiaquez.
967. Helwighen's Report concerning the man of Louvain.
B. Li. de l` Aud.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
I Loys de Heylwigen (sic). of the Emperor's Council in Brabant, was twice at Louvain on business, at the end of May, and on the 22nd of June 1532. Having gone to supper at the castle of the said town with the concierge thereof, whom I was in the habit of visiting, found myself pour honneste moyen at table with Messire Jehan Barlo or Carolo, (fn. n12) priest and dean of Westberry, a native of England, with three other Englishmen and other people of this country (par decha). whom the said concierge of the castle had himself invited to supper on the occasion that the said Dean and the rest of the Englishmen were residing at the house of Knight-Commander Chantrain situated on the mound of earth (motte). at the opposite side of the castle, owing to which circumstance the said Englishman and his friends were in communication with the concierge, and frequently visited each other. At table I found the said English honest and gracious; some of them understood and spoke Flemish, but the Dean did not, as he said. The Dean was by them considered as their chief; he is short, red haired, very moderate in eating and drinking, and silent (et peu de devises) unless addressed, saying, among other things, when there was a question of pleasure or pastime, that he knew neither music nor games of chance. (fn. n13)
Whilst the dinner was being served nothing important was said, nor was the divorce mentioned, but after the cloth was removed the Dean asked permission to retire to his lodgings with his friends. I accompanied him, and on the road thither I inquired from him what he knew about the divorce, as it seemed to me that there was no longer so much talk about the King procuring the dissolution of his marriage as there had been at other times. I asked him, therefore, if by chance the affair had subsided.
The Dean answered: "You are right; the matter has been more discussed than it is now, but nevertheless it has not wholly subsided.
I then asked him who had been the cause of the king of England adopting that opinion, after having lived so many years with the Queen, his wife, and whether it was the cardinal of England (Wolsey) or some one else.
The Dean said that the King, after he had been married nine or ten years, having gone to confess to a priest whom the Dean named, though being a strange name I have quite forgotten it, found by the counsel and advice of the said confessor, whom the Dean described as a learned divine, that he (the King) could not any longer live with the Queen, his wife, his marriage being certainly null and void, he having married his own brother's wife, which marriage no dispensation could make lawful; and that since that time the King, for the quieting of his conscience, had embraced that opinion, in which he has ever since persisted, the more so that he has found many worthy people in England entertaining the same; the said Dean averred that the King was sorry for it, for he was much attached to his wife, and should have liked to continue living with her.
Upon which I asked the Dean whether the King had not found other learned doctors to dissent from him in that respect, that is to say, to consider the Papal dispensation, which I thought I had seen, quite sufficient to remove all the King's scruples on that score, and decide for the validity of the marriage. The Dean's answer was that he believed there were some, but that those whom the King consulted had decided otherwise.
It is true that one of the King's arguments is that when the said marriage was proposed to him he had not given his free consent, but had yielded out of respect and fear for his father. I have heard (the Dean said) something about that, and that the King intended to allegate that his free and deliberate consent to the marriage had never been given, but there is no longer any mention of that.
I replied that also there was little appearance of this being so, since after the death of his father, Henry VII., he had for many years cohabited with the said queen, and therefore, even supposing that his consent had not been absolute and free (libere) at the time of his marriage, it was enough that he had by subsequent cohabitation and conversation established his consent. I said more; I told him that, from the moment the King had called to his assistance such allegation as the one just named, it was evident that the divorce had not been merely to satisfy his (the Kings) conscience, which accused him of having married the widow of his own brother; for had that reason been sufficient for his purpose, certainly he would not have considered it necessary to allege this other one of his want of free consent. That was to me (I said) an evident proof of the scanty affection the King had for his Queen, especially if he had no other allegation to make except that one, for it was clear that he might at any time, and when he chose, consent to it and follow a different course; from which I concluded that he no longer loved the Queen, but loved another woman.
The Dean's answer to the above argument was that the King did not particularly insist upon the absence of free consent on his part, but only on the first-mentioned point. He did own that the King daily visited with familiarity a maiden of a good and noble house in England, and that a rumour was afloat that should the King persist in his idea of the divorce, owing to his firm belief that his marriage with the Queen was unlawful, he would marry the said maiden. The Dean further added that he believed the said lady to be in the King's good graces.
Hearing which I said to the Dean, as if I marvelled at what he said: "And yet the general report here is that the King has made up his mind to legitimatise by a subsequent marriage a bastard son he had before this, and thus make his kingdom pass to the male line. How can that be?" The Dean said: "There is no probability at all in that, inasmuch as the girl by whom the King had that son has been since married to a gentleman of his kingdom, with the consent and approval of the King himself, from which time he, the King, has discontinued all communication with the said lady."
My reply was that I had never heard of the fact, and therefore thought naturally that the love withdrawn from the Queen had been bestowed upon the lady who was the mother of his son, and that he intended marrying her in order to legitimatise the said bastard.
The Dean having again replied with a repetition of the arguments above stated, I observed that since the communication of the King with his present mistress was so frequent and so intimate as he (the Dean) assured me, it was to be presumed that some secret "liasson" existed between them.
"Not that I have heard," said the Dean.
After this I asked him whether he knew personally the girl by whom the King had had his son, and this present lady who, he said, was so much in favour with the King; whether they were pretty or handsome, and whether they were worthy of the King falling in love with them and abandoning his own wife.
The Dean answered that he knew both the lady and the girl; the latter (he said) was prettier than the lady, but this one was more eloquent and graceful, more really handsome, and especially of a good family.
"And yet," I said, "whatever may be the accomplishments of the lady you allude to, they can bear no comparison with those of queen Katharine, and, therefore, considering the great virtues of the King, of which people speak so highly, it seems to me that the King would have prized her honour and nobility more than he does had he not by means of philters, charms or otherwise been dragged into this illegitimate love as much with the present lady as with the former girl."
No answer to this observation of mine, except this: "I do not know, I can't say."
"What is the opinion of the theologians at Louvain on the divorce?"was my next question. "I have not consulted them,"replied the Dean.
Here the conversation ended. After publicly beseeching God to put an end to this affair to the satisfaction of the parties concerned, I took leave of the Dean for a time, saying to him that I would occasionally visit the castle for the sake of a little amusement playing at tennis (jeu de palme) and other games, and if he chose to join me I should be delighted.
After this and on a different occasion having inquired whether the said Englishmen, friends of the Dean, were at Louvain for the purpose of studying at its University, or to consult and procure the opinions of some theologians on the pretended divorce, I have incidentally spoken to some of the doctors of the Faculty on the subject; but I must say that hitherto I have been unable to find any proofs of the said English being here for that purpose, or to meet with any doctor whom they have consulted on the subject. If they have I must say that they conduct their affairs with such secrecy that nothing does transpire. The Dean, I am informed, since my return from Louvain has asked the concierge when he expected me back, that he may invite me to dinner and cultivate my acquaintance, &c.
French. Original. pp. 3.
28 June 968. Eustace Chapuys to the Emperor.
K. u. K. Haus-
Wien.Rep.P. Fasc.,
c. 227, No. 29.
On the 21st, after writing to Your Majesty, I sent one of my secretaries to the duke of Norfolk on business relating to a Flemish merchant, who had been expressly recommended to me by the Queen. Not only did the Duke receive my secretary most graciously, but walked with him in his garden for nearly one hour, and spoke to him in very familiar terms, inquiring, among other things, for Your Majesty's health, your whereabouts, and the state in which the affairs of the Lutherans were; and upon my secretary answering that you were doing very well, and that there was hope of those matters being satisfactorily settled at the diet of Nuremberg, which the electors of Mayence (Maintz) and Palatine had attended, the Duke interrupted him by saying: "That must be a hoax (bourde); I cannot believe it, for we have letters from our ambassador residing at the Imperial Court, dated the 18th ult., announcing on the contrary that the Emperor's health was much worse, that the Lutheran diet (la diete des Luther tens), to which the said electors of Maintz and Palatine had gone, had been dissolved, and, lastly, that the Lutherans, having rejected all offers of conciliation, had made a close league with the king of Polone (Poland), king Frederic of Danemark, the Vayvod, and the Grand Master of Prussia, for the express purpose of opposing the Emperor and his brother the king of the Romans."The better to prove his assertion the Duke caused a long search to be made among his papers for the English ambassador's letter, which he afterwards remembered had remained in the King's hands; and although my secretary did not attempt to contradict the news in the least, the Duke kept emphatically repeating the intelligence he said he had received [from Germany], begging my man to attach faith to his words, and believe that Your Majesty was really in a very precarious state both as to health and affairs. The better to enforce his statements, after my secretary had taken leave and left him, the Duke called him back and said: "Pray tell your master, the Imperial ambassador, that he must abstain in future from publishing statements contrary to those I have just made, for if he does he will have the mortification of finding them untrue."
Hearing the Duke's message, I went, in order that I might ascertain what his real sentiments were, and also thank him for the courtesy and familiarity shewn to my secretary. On the ensuing morning, which was Saturday, I went to hear mass at a church attached to his lodgings, and sent him word that if he was disengaged I would have the honour to visit him afterwards, not indeed on business, but merely to inquire after his health. The Duke's answer was that he thanked me very much for my attention, but that feeling rather indisposed that morning he begged to be excused if he did not receive me. On Sunday, about 7 a.m., the Duke himself "tout pesant quil estoit"came to see me, and after thanking me again for the trouble I had taken the day before, and making his excuses for not receiving me, he began to tell me the very same news he had imparted to my secretary on Friday. Upon which I explained to him that I had seen letters not from Your Majesty, but from private individuals, in date of the 4th inst., bearing testimony of your convalescence, and also of the diet having been resumed at Nuremberg, which diet the above said electors Palatine and of Mayence (Maintz) had attended.
To this intelligence, fresh as it was, the Duke knew not what to reply, that which he had received being of a much older date. I then mentioned the rumours that were afloat about Mr. de Rosymboz, and how his mission to Scotland was generally supposed to be the real cause of the departure of the French ambassador, though my belief was, considering the very lengthy conferences held with him both before and after his departure, that matters far more important were under discussion. The Duke's answer was: "If you mean that the ambassador's mission to France was for the purpose of preventing the Scotch marriage, you are mistaken; for we know that the queen of Hungary (Mary) has flatly refused the offer; and with regard to the daughters of Denmark the alliance on the father's side cannot do us any harm at the present juncture; besides which we have no fear of the king of Scotland negotiating any such marriage or other important affairs without our being aware of it in time, for the king of that country (he said) does nothing without the advice and will of the duke of Albany, who most probably communicates before with the king of France, so that we are immediately apprized of it."(Cipher:) The Duke went on further to say that whatever negotiations the king of Scotland may have entered into for a marriage out of England, certain it was that he had all the time solicited the hand of the Princess (Mary), but (the Duke observed) this was only losing his time, for he never would as long as he lived obtain it, being too closely related to her. The Duke also said that king James was very badly advised; the duke of Albany had applied for a Papal bull in his favour, in virtue of which he (the King) had appropriated no less than 10,000 crs. of revenue formerly belonging to the Clergy, who had hitherto protected and defended him successfully against the nobility, but would now seize the opportunity and renew their attacks. I replied to him: "I hear that the son of the duke of Cleves has also applied for the hand of the Princess." "Yes (said he), but the report is that the father is mad (fol). and no one knows yet what the son may come to. (fn. n14) However that may be (added the Duke) we would much rather grant her hand to him than to king James. The Princess will never marry except in a very high sphere, for up to the present time she is the true and legitimate heir to the crown of England, and even if this grave case (le gros affaire) should be settled according to the King's wishes, and he should marry again, no one can tell whether there will be male issue out of such marriage. Should there be none the Princess would always be preferred to the other daughters of the King; and should anyone dare say that she is illegitimate it would inevitably cost him his head."
Respecting his communications with the French ambassador to which I had alluded, the Duke made no remark, but I firmly believe that these people have some great object in view, though most likely they have not yet come to an agreement, and are making, as usual, much noise about nothing. (fn. n15) I cannot guess what they are about, unless it be to declare that both kings have faithfully observed all the articles agreed between them at the time of their league against Your Imperial Majesty, which declaration these people have long solicited, as I have already noticed in one of my former despatches. Now all their communications are at an end; the French ambassador no longer goes to Court, nor do the Privy Councillors go to him as they used formerly, but I hear he intends all the same following the king's hunting parties if he gets an invitation. I have been told that the duke [of Norfolk] and he have lately had angry words together, which might after all be the chief cause of his visit to me the other day.
(Common writing;) Having mentioned to the Duke the fact of Camillo Orsino having done injury to this king and court by his publicly stating wherever he went that he was about to join the Turk, and that the King would furnish him with anything he might want for his undertaking, he answered that Camillo had made no such boast before the King. He had merely brought a letter from Lasco, to which letter he could get no answer in writing, whatever his solicitations, save that the King had verbally signified to him that should Lasco, who had charge to propose the contents of the letter, present himself, a suitable answer should be prepared to his request. (Cipher:) The above answer of the Duke sufficiently proves how desirous these people have been, and are still, of Lasco's coming, and how dexterously they threw out hopes to Camillo of helping his enterprize. (Common writing:) The Duke, however, did not say more about Lasco's negotiations. As to Camillo's companion, who is still here, the Duke swore to me on his honour that since the King had ordered 200 crs. to be given to him, he had not even once been at Court, nor spoken to the King, nor to him, and that he wondered what could keep him so long in this country.
After this the conversation turned naturally on the Turk the Duke saying to me what a pity and misfortune it was, now that the Infidel was about to invade Christendom, that its princes should not be closely united to resist his attacks. He lamented the fact, and observed that Your Imperial Majesty was the principal cause of such union not taking place, wishing no doubt to intimate thereby that should you consent to the King's divorce all other matters would be satisfactorily arranged.
I need scarcely reproduce here the arguments I brought forward in justification of Your Majesty's conduct; suffice it to say that they were so strong that the Duke had nothing to say in reply, and I put an end to my discourse by saying to the Duke that since he owned that it would be a great shame if all the princes in Christendom did not unite for so meritorious an enterprize, that was enough for me, as I had not the least doubt that Your Majesty would do everything in your power to bring about such a union, and thus fulfil your duty towards God and man; the rest was in the hands of the Almighty, who, according to Philo, the philosopher, never poured out so willingly and so abundantly His grace as in cases where the help of man was most backward. I told him, besides, of the measures lately introduced in your Spanish dominions, and how orders had been issued throughout the country not to alter in any way the treatment of the English, notwithstanding that the Council of Castille had often represented to you that every day new taxes were being imposed here on Spanish merchants. The Duke answered that since he had the management of affairs in England he had taken good care that the subjects of Your Majesty should not be over taxed or oppressed (grevez ne follez). and that he intended to persevere in this. I had (he said) only to state the grievances, if any, and they should be immediately redressed. A term was then fixed for my inquiring among the Spanish merchants whether they had any complaints to make, and Your Majesty may be sure that if any grievances exist I will immediately ask the Duke to fulfil his promise.—London 28th June 1532.
Signed: "Eustace Chapuys."
Addressed: "To the Emperor."
Indorsed: "From the ambassador in England. Received the 13th July."
French Holograph, partly in cipher, pp. 5.


  • n1. "En la mayson dung sennevoys (sic) nommé Lomellin."
  • n2. "Il faut croyre quil y a quelque demene dimportance entre le dit ambas-sadeur et ceulx çy, veu les grandes et continuelies communicacions quils eurent auant son partement, et quils ont presentement. Ce pendant questoye avec lay lenvoya [chercher] le docteur faux (sic) pour communiquer sur le despeche quil faiaoit en France, et deuvoit aller disner au vasmotier (sic) avec le due et son conseil."
  • n3. "Et dauantage a receu ley roy xxim. vc. escuz pour laccord fayt entre eulx sur les xvm. escuz de sel que les françoys debuoínt annuellement fournyr; le quel sel a este converty a dix mille escuz annuels, et les xxxm dehuz pour les troys annez passeez ont este mis a quatre payemans, dont pour le premier ont este deslivrez viim 3c,. escuz et les cinq mille pour le terme de ceste annee."
  • n4. Elsewhere Taillebot, and Tallebault, both being meant for Talbot.
  • n5. "Tambien se escrivió al Verulano que paresciendole que convenga haga algund presente al escuteto (sic) de Lucerna, porque todos jusgan que es hombre muy provechoso y que los francesses assi le entretenian en tiempo que les servia."
  • n6. Silten or Sion in the Valais (Switzerland); the bishop's name was Adrian Riedmatten.
  • n7. "El qual assoldasse los cavallos hungaros."
  • n8. The indorsement has the 22nd.
  • n9. "Lo del hijo del Sr. Granvella ya se assentó y agora ando en lo del Cuñado. "By son of Granvelle, Antoine Perrenot is meant, and by brother-in-law Mr. Bonvallot, both of whom had at that time affairs to settle at Rome.
  • n10. Distinct, no doubt, from Gianpaolo.
  • n11. The priuce, not duke, of Sulmona, at this time was the son of charles de Lannoy; but Giulia Varana, daughter of Giovan Maria Varana, duke of camarino, married Guidobaldo della Rovere, duke of Urbino.
  • n12. An ecclesiastic of this name, prior of Bisham, was sent by Henry to Scotland in 1534, and was subsequently appointed bishop of St. Asaph, but his name was William, not John, as here stated.
  • n13. "Et est homme de petite stature ayant cheveulx rouges, sobre en menger et boire, et peu de devises, ne fust [–ce] que Pon parla a luy, disant entre aultres, au propos de recreation, non sçavoir aulcune musicque ne gueres de jeuz."
  • n14. John III., duke of Juliers and Cleves, died on the 6th of February 1539. His son, William IV., duke of Ravenstein, succeeded him; but of his pretended insanity T can find no traces in the histories of the time.
  • n15. "Et que selon leur coutume ils ont mene comme lon dit grand bruit pour peu de layne."