Spain: October 1532, 16-31

Pages 537-545

Calendar of State Papers, Spain, Volume 4 Part 2, 1531-1533. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1882.

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October 1532, 16-31

16 Oct. 1010. Dr. Ortiz to the Emperor.
S. E. Rom. L. 858,
f. 169.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 144.
God be praised for having granted victory to Your Majesty's arms!
The ambassador (Mai) has at last succeeded in getting the matrimonial cause of the queen of England sent to the Rota, as he himself no doubt will report. His Holiness has publicly announced and explained His Imperial Majesty's intended visit to Italy, and said that he himself purposes holding a conference with you.
Begs for instructions, for he fears this event will occasion new delays and that the principal cause may be retarded in consequence. Wishes in the meanwhile that the brief for which he (Ortiz) has applied so often should be sent, because after this present month His Holiness is sure to say that as the interview with the Emperor is to take place soon the whole thing might, and ought to, be delayed till then.—Rome, 16th October 1532.
Signed: "El Doctor Ortiz."
Addressed: "To the Sacred, Imperial, Catholic Majesty the Emperor and King, our Lord."
Spanish. Holograph. pp. 2.
16 Oct. 1011. The Same to the High Commander.
S. E. Horn. L. 856,
f. 168.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 145.
Congratulations for the victory gained against the Turks. His Holiness having publicly announced his desire and his intention to hold an interview with His Imperial Majesty, and not knowing whether it will be a short one or last many days, he (Ortiz) is anxious to receive instructions as to how he is to act. Has often applied, and will go on applying for the brief.—Rome, 16th October 1532.
20–1 Oct. 1012. Cardinal Siguenza to the Emperor.
S. E. L 859,
ff. 41-2.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 159.
Besides the secret malady with which His Holiness is generally affected he has lately been seized with fits of the gout. He has not given audiences for some time, but is now getting better.
The Pope sent for me, Loaysa, the other day and for Don Pedro [de la Cueva] and Miçer Mai also, and said that the Cardinal, his nephew (Ippolito), had written explaining the cause of his having left for Italy before you, and before the infantry which had mutinied, though he had received orders to remain behind; how he had afterwards met the count of San Segundo and joined him, &c. That in coming out of a place, whereat he had passed the night, he (the Cardinal) had been arrested; and that having asked his detainers to exhibit their mandate he had been told that they had none, only private instructions from Your Majesty. He was then told to choose among his household servants five or six to attend on his person upon which he (the Cardinal) inquired whether they did that for the sake of the count of San Segundo, because if that was the case he was ready to move to some other quarters. The officers agreed, and consequently all his servants were left with him. That next day Mercado arrived with a letter from Your Majesty and another one from the king of the Romans, asking for the 40,000 ducats which His Holiness had sent him by count Julio, and upon the Cardinal saying that he had them not with him, but that they might go to his lodgings, where they would find them stored in chests, Mercado went away. Soon after came another letter from Your Majesty ordering his complete release, which was accordingly done, he (the Cardinal) having ridden as far as Treviso, where he had remained without proceeding on his march, that he might there wait for Your Majesty's orders.
After the above statement, borrowed, as he said, from his nephew's letter. His Holiness very much affected (con palabras de mucho sentimiento) said to us: "I believe that I have given no cause whatever to the Emperor for such a treatment of a Legate of the Apostolic See and my nephew, and am only sorry at what people may say when they hear of this. I cannot think it was the Emperor's fault, but some thoughtlessness (liviandad) of my nephew, or some mistake of the Imperial ministers. Perhaps the Emperor was told that the Cardinal with the 40,000 ducats and with the mutineers intended taking the road to Florence.
Having then asked our advice, I (Loaysa) replied in the name of my colleagues, that not having yet heard from Your Majesty on this particular subject we could not express an opinion as to that, but that we were sure the case was not so grave as represented, or the reason alleged so slight. That if the Cardinal's account was the true one, his arrest had been accomplished less as a disrespectful measure against His Reverence than for the purpose of securing the person of count San Segundo, besides which there was no offence in sending for the money, since His Holiness had written to announce its remittance, and that it was to be spent exactly as the Emperor wished.
Somewhat appeased by these reasons of mine the Pope made no more difficulties, and promised to write to the Cardinal not to move from Treviso, but wait there for Your Majesty's orders: "Only (he observed) it is very odd that before my nephew's letter came to hand the French ambassador said resolutely that the Emperor had ordered his arrest, which I cannot otherwise explain than by supposing that the one who resides at Venice has written to him."
The duke of Florence (Alessandro de' Medici) had, I am told, intended ere this to kiss Your Majesty's hands previous to your leaving Germany, but in consequence of the Cardinal's mishap he will put off his visit till a better opportunity, as he dares not quit Florence just now.
Miçer Mai is of opinion that the interview concerted between His Holiness and Your Majesty ought to be urgently pressed, so that there should be no excuse for delay, for it is rumoured that the Pope, owing to the bad state of his health, will not be able to depart so soon, and the orders for his journey have not yet been issued. The same ambassador is of opinion that there reigns so much coldness and indifference upon the subject that it would seem as if the coming of Your Majesty to Italy and journey to Spain was a thing against the taste of these Romans (a pospelo). In his (Mai's) opinion this is nothing but the fear that through Your Majesty's coming here His Holiness and the rest of the Italian potentates will have to declare for the defence of their country, and Your Majesty will leave everything prepared (allanado) for such a defence which seems to them a very hard thing. Evidently they are confused; because they say that it would not do for the ambassadors of the king of the Romans to conclude truce or peace with the Turk, and that rather than take the offensive it would be preferable to make an agreement with France.
A good portion of the 40,000 ducats which count Giulio [di Gambara] was bringing has been received at Bologna. (fn. n1) I am sure, however, that these people will delay payment as much as possible, in the daily expectation of the news of the Turk's retreat. For the same cause they are delaying as long as they can the expedition of the bulls for the "Quarta" and Cruzada."
Miçer Andrea del Burgo having asked in the king of the Romans' name for the help in money so long and so often promised for the defence of Hungary, Salviati said to him: "You must not imagine that the Pope is to give his money to whomsoever asks for it; in the first place, because he has none, and even if he had it is unjust that he alone should contribute to the defence of Hungary" "How alone?" said I, "do not the Emperor and king Ferdinand spend their own substance in it?"
For many days past I and the ambassador (Miçer Mai) have been urgently pressed to take some engagement (tomar assiento) with Juan Paulo de Cherri (fn. n2) before the French could secure his services, but it would appear that having inquired in whose pay he was to be, Salviati has declared in Your Majesty's and His Holiness'. I keep telling them that Juan Paulo being a man of the quality he is I could not presume to decide without consulting Your Majesty first.
Letters from France state that although the two kings [of England and France] had not seen each other yet the conferences would soon begin. King Henry had given to Mistress Anne an estate worth 5,000 ducats a year, which was by some considered a good sign, guessing that the King wants to marry her to one of his courtiers. I will urge the sentence though I have no hope of the affair being terminated this year.
Luigi Gonzaga is besieging Vicovaro. The Pope suspects the Colonese. I am trying all I can to calm his fears, and on the other hand persuade them not to give him (the Pope) further cause for resentment. (fn. n3) The other day a trumpeter came out of the place for the purpose, as it is believed, of parliamenting.—Rome, 20–21st October 1532.
Signed: "Fr. G[arcia] Cardlis Segontinus."
Addressed: "To the Emperor and King."
Spanish. Original. pp. 5.
22 Oct. 1013. Cardinal Ippolito de' Medici to the Same.
S. E. L. 1,309.
f. 272.
B.M. Add. 28,585,
f. 146.
Sees by the Emperor's holograph letter, and the verbal message brought to him (Medici) by his chamberlain, the baron de Balanson, what his (the Emperor's) sentiments are towards him. It was no new thing for him (the Legate) to hear of the Emperor's benevolent intentions, as he has always given many evident proofs of his generosity and kindness, not only to him but to all people in general. To what has happened to him, being, as he is, the Emperor's most faithful servant, he (the Cardinal) need make no allusion; not only has he no complaint to make, but on the contrary, is exceedingly obliged and grateful, as it has afforded the Emperor an opportunity to write him a letter in his own hand, and make his excuses for what really was not worth it.
Recommends the case of count San Secondo.—Venice, 22nd October MDXXXL (fn. n4)
Signed: "Hipp. Card. Med.."
Addressed: "Sacre Cæs. et Cathce Mti."
Italian. Holograph. pp. 2.
31 Oct. 1014. Don Pedro de la Cueva to the High Commander.
S. E. L. 854, f. 2.
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 147.
I reached this capital (Rome) within the space of time fixed by Your Lordship, and yet found the people here very preoccupied with my tarrying, and making also all manner of conjectures as is the custom with these Italians. Went immediately upon my arrival to kiss His Holiness' foot, and answer any questions he might choose to address me. Though he (the Pope) was determined, as he once wrote to his Legate (cardinal de' Medici) to go down to Bologna to meet the Emperor, yet he said to me on this occasion that he wished to consult the cardinals assembled in Consistory as to the answer he was to give to our master's letter. As to himself, he said, he was ready, though not in good health, to call upon the Emperor, or wait for him here at Rome, as might be more convenient to His Imperial Majesty. However, as the Emperor's embarkation for Spain could not take place so soon as was anticipated, owing to the Imperial galleys being far away and so scattered, that they could not be easily collected, he, the Pope, thought that the best thing for the Emperor to do was to pass the winter at Rome and Naples, rather than remain in Lombardy. For this reason, after talking at length with the cardinal Siguenza (Loaysa), and with the Imperial ambassador (Miçer Mai), both of whom were present at the audience, the Pope declared that His Majesty's will should be done, but that he would nevertheless announce his intention in Consistory, and hear what the cardinals had to say thereupon.
On Wednesday the 30th, therefore, a Consistory was held, and although the majority of the cardinals, as we were afterwards told by Siguenza himself, voted that His Holiness should write a letter to the Emperor inviting him to come to Rome, yet when we called on him the same evening to hear the result of the meeting he said to us : "You know how the cardinals have voted; if the Emperor will not come here I am ready to go to Bologna, which after all seems to me the best plan. As to my going to Genoa it is out of the question for many reasons; neither can Piacenza — of which there is, I hear, some talk—be selected as the place of our meeting, for the Emperor can hardly expect me to pass through the territory of the duke of Ferrara."
And upon our asking him when he would be ready to depart, supposing the Emperor accepted Bologna, he answered : "Surely, on the 10th of November, for I have but few pre-parations to make, and will take with me as few cardinals and retainers as possible."
After all it seems to me as if His Holiness from the very beginning wished the interview to take place at Bologna. True he said once to Siguenza: "God be praised for having given us so Christian an Emperor! In old times popes and cardinals used to go to the end of the World after them for fear of their coming here; nowadays it is the cardinals themselves who invite him to Rome!" But no sooner was he (the Pope) informed of my coming and what my errand was than he decided for Bologna, and selected at once the cardinals who were to accompany him. These are Farnese and his two nephews, Ridolfi and Salviati, Cessi, and Cesarino, besides the three Spaniards who, he presumed, would have liked to go, eight in all, and therefore, it is quite clear to me that since he prepared for the journey, even before my arrival in Rome, he wished our Emperor not to come here, but meet him at Bologna or elsewhere.
Offers his opinion on the various conjectures formed by the Romans respecting the proposed interview, and mentions among others that of his being glad that the Emperor came to Rome that he might afterwards send him on to Naples, and take part in the war which Andrea Doria is now waging against the Turks, thus making him spend the money proceeding from those crusades which he is reported to have granted him; for the Romans say the Pope is awfully afraid of the kings of France and England coming down upon him, and complaining that he has indirectly supplied our Emperor with means, though as he (the Pope) can play with both hands, he will give as an excuse that "if he gave the money, he gave also the occasion to spend it in."
One of the first questions which His Holiness put to me when I first called on him was whether I knew how his nephew's arrest had happened. I laughed, and answered in jest, though I failed not to speak in earnest, and spoke of the immense grief which our Emperor must have received on hearing of the blunder which those two blockheads (Loc-quinghen and Leguiçamo) had committed without special order or mandate from him, and I offered to bring him the letter which you, the High Commander of Leon, had written to rae on the subject: "I shall be glad to see it (replied His Holiness), for my nephew writes to me that a Spaniard, having the office of carver in his household, had seen with his own eyes the instructions sent to the two commissioners, and that certainly in those instructions orders were given for the Cardinal's arrest." My reply was that the commissioners and the carver, the carver and the commissioners lied if they meant to say that the instructions contained anything of the kind; and taking out of my pocket one of your despatches I read it to him from beginning to end, at which the Pope seemed satisfied, &c.
With regard to the English business His Holiness himself engaged me to speak. I have done so, and will do so as long as I remain here. The affair itself needs well to be stirred up for all agree that there is not sufficient activity shewn about it (que la solicitud anda floja).
Respecting the money promised to the king of the Romans I believe, and so does Andrea del Burgo, that some ground has been gained in the matter.
The commission concerning the prince of Sulmona has been faithfully executed. We have mentioned it to His Holiness, and to-morrow Miçer Mai and I intend speaking to the duchess of Camarino, who is now here at Rome.
The enclosed is from Escanyo, (fn. n5) who wishes as soon as possible for an answer.—Rome, the last day of October, at the 11 hours [Castillian] of the night [1532].
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva."
Addressed: "To the very illustrious lord the High Commander of Leon, of the Supreme Council of His Imperial Majesty, and his secretary."
Spanish. Original. pp. 5.
31 Oct. 1015. The Same to the Emperor.
S.E.L. 854, f. 3.
B.M. Add. 28,585,
f. 151.
The same as the preceding with a few additions.—Rome, 31st October 1532.
Spanish. Holograph. p. 1.
31 Oct. 1016. Muxetula to the Emperor.
S.E. Rom. L. 859,
f. 101.
B.M. Add. 28,585,
f. 152.
The Emperor's two letters of the 7th and 21st inst., the former of which was brought by the High Commander of Alcantara, came duly to hand.
[Relates at length the conversation which Don Pedro de la Cueva had with the Pope respecting the Emperor's announced visit and then adds :]
No advices have yet been received from France respecting the interview between the kings of that country and England, but all letters have said that it would soon take place. The English King had already crossed the Channel and was at Calais, the French at Boulogne: both caressed immensely the Papal nuncios near their persons saying that though His Holiness did not value them as they deserved, they would still act in every respect as obedient sons of the Church. And yet notwithstanding they would try not to be so ill-treated as they had been hitherto, nor would they tolerate that His Holiness should do more for others than for them. According to the said nuncios the two kings threatened much, and announce that the conferences will be principally on matters concerning the Pope and the obedience due to him. His Holiness has heard from all of us what we thought respecting this matter, and what was most fitting for his honour and reputation.
The prudent, wise, and well shaped justification of Your Majesty respecting the Cardinal's arrest came very opportunely to dissipate a thousand rumours circulated by our enemies. Your letter and the message brought by Mr. de Balanson have completely persuaded His Holiness who to my certain knowledge had before the arrival of the High Commander of Alcantara (Don Pedro de la Cueva) written to his nephew (Ippolito) to return immediately to the Imperial Court, upbraiding him for having left it.
Some days ago the Pope had a relapse of his old disease the gout, combined with a secret malady from which he suffers at present, which confined him to his bed. He has now recovered, and is ready to start for Bologna as soon as Your Majesty's resolution becomes known.
I myself have been suffering so long from quartan ague that the physicians recommend me to pass this winter out of Rome and go, or rather be carried in a litter to Puzzuolo or Naples, my native country. As during His Holiness' visit to Bologna there cannot be much to do here at Rome, I humbly ask Your Majesty for a short leave of absence that I may recover my lost health.—Rome, 31st October 1532.
Signed: "Jo. Anto Muscetula."
Addressed: "Sacræ Cesæ Catho Mti."
Spanish. Original. pp. 3.
31 Oct. 1017. The Same to the Same.
S. E. L. 859,
ff. 41–2.
B M. Add. 28,585,
f. 158 h.
His Holiness' resolution respecting the interview. Much prefers going to Bologna, for which place he intends starting on the 10th of next month.
Nothing is yet known about the interview of the two kings. He of England was already at Calais; both, it was reported, had held very threatening language to the Papal Nuncios.— Rome, 31st October 1532.
Indorsed: "Relacion de cartas de Roma de ultimo de Octubre. Respondidas en Mantua á 12 de Nov.."
Spanish. Contemporary abstract, p. ½.
31 Oct. 1018. Cardinal Santa Croce to the Same.
S. E. L. 849, f. 41.
B. M. Add. 28 585,
f. 159.
Asks for leave to go to Spain.
Gives his opinion on the Emperor's journey. Thinks he ought to return home as soon as possible, and in case of his coming to Italy to visit both Rome and Naples. (fn. n6) —Rome, 31st October 1532.
Spanish. Holograph. p. 1.
31 Oct. 1019. Cardinal Mendoza to the High Commander.
S.E.L. 549, f. 41
B. M. Add. 28,585,
f. 159.
Wishes to know whether the Emperor approves of his going to Bologna in the Pope's suite, he being one of the three Spanish cardinals designated to accompany him thither —Naples, 31st October 1532.
Spanish. Holograph. p. 1.
31 Oct. 1020. Ascanio Colonna to the Same.
S. E. L. 649, f. 42.
B.M. Add. 28,585,
f. 159.
Not knowing whether the Emperor would be pleased, he has remained behind and not gone [to Bologna] to kiss his hands. Has said this to the High Commander of Alcantara [Don Pedro de la Cueva]. Begs that the answer to this be enclosed to the latter, that he (Ascanio) may know at once what is the Emperor's good pleasure, (fn. n7) —Rome, 31st October 1532.
Italian. Original abstract. pp. 1½.
31 Oct. 1021. The High Commander of Alcantara [Don Pedro de la Cueva] to the Emperor.
S. E. L, 854, f. 3.
B.M. Add. 28,585,
f. 151.
Has written to the High Commander of Leon (Covos), and transmitted the answer he got from His Holiness, and what passed at the last audience. As, moreover, both cardinal d'Osma and Miçer Mai write at length on the subject, he (Cueva) need not enter into more details. (fn. n8) Before the return of this messenger he will attend to other business which has been entrusted to him.—Rome, the last day of October 1532.
Signed: "Don Pedro de la Cueva"
Addressed: "To the most invincible Cæsar, the Emperor and King, our Sovereign Lord."
Spanish. Holograph. p. 1.


  • n1. "De los xl. m. ducados que trajo el conde Julio se han tomado en Boloña una buena parte de ellos."
  • n2. Giovan Pagolo da Ceri.
  • n3. "Quel precura de conservarlo en su gracia y con ellos qur ae le den causa de enojo."
  • n4. Thus in Bergenroth's copy, but it is evidently a mistake for MDXXXII (1532).
  • n5. Most likely Ascanio Colonna.
  • n6. On the margin: "To thank him for his letter. Respecting his leave of absence from his post at Rome, and permission he asks to go to Spain, to tell him that since His Holiness, according to his letter, must already have quitted Rome, and he himself must soon be at Bologna, we shall then and there discuss together this and other affairs." Covos.
  • n7. On the margin in secretary Idiaquez's hand . "Thanks to be returned, saying that His Majesty does not wish him to take the trouble of coming, but that if he does he shall be welcome."
  • n8. Immediately after is the following paragraph : "Dyré en lo que es mi pro-fesion que fue que me allé a quynze millas de aqui en la muerte, el dia que arrive a esta corte, de dos puercos vien grandes magine (sic) el uno, que aun en presencia sere reprendido quanto mas en ausencia;" which, for want of one or more sentences, seems to me quite unintelligible. There can be no doubt that Don Pedro, on his way to Rome, attended a hunting party, and was present at the death of two tremendously big wild boars ; but what is the meaning of imagine, ó imaginé el uno ? for I shall certainly be reprehended in presence [of the Emperor?], much more now that I am absent.