House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 13 April 1624

Martis, 13 Aprilis, 1624

Calthrope's Estate.

L. 1. AN Act to enable Martin Calthrope to make Sale of certain Lands.

Fisher's Estate.

L. 1. An Act for the Establishing of the Estate of Sir Edw. Fisher, Knight.

Anstrother's, &c. Nat.

Sir Natha. Rich reports the Bill of Sir Rob. Anstrother, and the rest. -

Ordered, To be ingrossed.

Inns, &c.

Inns and Ostries. - Presently, Committee Chamber : And all to have Voice.

Ly. Bulkly.

L. 2. Lady Bulkly her Bill: - Committed to Sir Eubel Thelloall, Sir Pet. Mutton, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Selden, Mr. Whitaker, Sir Geo. Moore, Sir Tho. Middleton, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Louther, Sir Tho. Cheeke, Sir Natha. Rich, all the Knights, Burgesses of Wales and Cheshire, Sir Hen. Anderson ; - To-morrow fortnight, Two Clock, Court of Wards. All Parties to have Notice, and Counsel to be. heard at the Committee.

Witnesses to attend.

Sir Tho. Savyle: - To have an Order of the House, to injoin the Attendance of some Witnesses, that came up to the Committee of Privileges. - Ordered.

Benister Manor.

L. 2. An Act for the quiet Establishment of the Customs of the Manor of Benister Second .- - Committed to Sir Tho. Cheeke, Mr. Whitakers, Mr. Will. Whitaker, Mr. Hyde, Sir Fra. Barnam, Serjeant Hicham, Mr. Taylor, Knights, Burgesses of Dorset, Mr. Bond, Lord Wriethly, Sir Jo. Stradling, Sir Will. Pit, Sir Rob. Hatton, Mr. Wentworth, Mr. Selden, Sir Edw. Leech: - Thursday next, Court of Wards, Two Clock. All Parties to have Notice.

Moor-burnings.

L. 2. - Moor-burnings - Committed to Mr. Secretary Calvert, Sir Pet. Mutton, Sir Tho. Savyle, Sir Jo. Stradling, Knights Burgesses Wales, Yorke, Northumberland, Cumberland, Mr. Wentworth, Sir Hen. Anderson, Mr. Price, Sir Fra. Brandling, Mr. Louther, Sir Ferdin. Firefax: - Thursday, Two Clock, Court of Wards.

Lord Mountacue's Estate.

L. 3. Viscount Mountacue his Bill. - A Petition read, of Sir Fra. Inglefeild's; and a Letter of the Speaker's to the Lord Mountacue.

Sir Geo. Moore: - Sir Fra. Inglefeild gives Way to this Bill.

Sir Geo. Manners: - To have the Decree taken into Consideration.

Mr. Alford: - More Cause to write a Letter now, than the last Parliament. The Gentleman is damnified in his own Estate, to the Value of some Thousands.

Sir Jo. Walter: - No Cause this Petition should stay the Passage of this Bill. This

500 l. was set upon him for his Contempt. Would never be brought to make the Account; Six Years he had this Land, and never paid Penny.

Upon Question, passed.

Mr. Speaker to write the like Letter to the Lord Mountacue.

Pretermitted Customs.

Sir Edwyn Sandys reports from the Committee for Trade,about the pretermitted Customs. - Founded upon the Proportion of Cloth, and Wool. - Regality, and Conveniency. - For the regal Part: - A Sack of Wool consisted of 20 Stone. The old Custom was 6s. 8d. by Act of Parliament; after, an Addition of 33s.4d. Tonage and Poundage; made with a solemn Protestation never to be granted after, nor be drawn into Precedent. Yet ever since it hath been granted. For Cloth: A sorted Cloth, 60 Pound of Wool ; a long Cloth, 72 Pounds; 32 Yards in Measure. Four sorting Cloths to a Sack of Wool. By this means raised 10s. on a sorting Cloth: 10s.11d. the Custom of a long Cloth. Edw. III. Time, when Clothing began, granted to him 18d, upon a Cloth. Queen Mary added to this 5s. 2d.

but this grievously complained of by the Merchants. - Came to all the Judges. They adjudged it against Law. - Queen Eliz. grew a new Addition; 13d. and one Third Part of a Penny ; 28 Eliz. This upon another Reason; an O ver-tength in Cloth. 1618 King pleased to add, to these sorting Cloths, 2 s. and 2d. more, and two thirds of a Penny: That makes up just 10 s. And, to a long Cloth, 3s. 1d. and one third Part. This that now called the pretermitted Custom. The Projector of this one Nicholson. He petitioned the King, who referred it to the Privy Comlcil ; they, to the learned Counsel. They certified this Custom legal, and convenient. A Patent to Morgan and Nicholson, at 300l. Rent: A gracious Proviso in the Patent, to be void, if found inconvenient. He, weary of his Patent, because of this Proviso, resigned it up to the Queen: She, to the King. After, another Patent issued out. - To Mr. Nicholson,1,000 l. 11 April, 19 Jac. 10l. per Annum to him. Complaint made to this House, the last Parliament, of this Custom. - Went to the King, and acquainted him with it: Delivered him a Book of Reasons, which Book he hath. - Argued at the Committee, what Duty this was. - Not Custom: That but 6s. 8 d. on a Sack of Wool: If Subsidy, must have his Foundation in the Act of Tonage. In this, grant to the King, on all Wares to be weighed, 12d. the Pound: An Exception of Four; all Cloth, Wools, Wool-fells, and Leather, transported by Merchant-denizens. - A new Grant; but not on the Cloth, but the Wool. 33s. 4d. charged only upon the Merchant denizen: Stranger pays double so much: But no Charge upon the Cloth. If Cloth not excepted, the Merchant-stranger should pay 16d. upon every Pound of Cloth. Said, on the other Part, that the Act of Subject could -

31 Eliz. upon the Question of the new Draperies, Nicholson founds the Custom on the Statute of Tonage and Poundage; but this cannot be. Committee delivered no Opinion, but refer it to this House. -

For the Matter of Convenience; little Difference about that. This clear over-charged Cloth. - Arcus nimis intensus frangitur. - Like letting Blood of a Body that is in a Consumption. A Decay of Clothing an Abating of the Price of Wools, and a Hindrance to the King's Customs. Said, that, if this were laid down, where One Cloth vented, would be Ten. This Custom, Nicholson said, amounted to about 24,000l. per Annum. Some Wrongs especially complained of. The Ground of the Custom was for Staple Wools : Other Wools in the Kingdom never accounted Staple Wads : Never any such Charge laid on them; yet now the pretermited Customs laid on them, as well as on the finest Cloths, 2ly, On the new Draperies. A great Addition to them. A third Complaint of Extortion at Weymouth. - Exact 4s. 4d. of a sorting Cloth, for pretermitted Custom. The Merchants paid this last Year, in that Duty, more than Four Subsidies.

Mr. Rolles: - The Question thus; whether this pretermitted Custom be proportionable to the Custom of 40 s. on a Sack, upon the Statute of Tonage. - Thinks, the King may not lay this Duty on Cloth. - Quinquagesimo primo Edw, III. 1 Edw. II. called the new Custom.

- Not legal, though it might be equitable, that the King should have that for Cloth, which was granted for Wool. 11 Edw. III. 38 Edw. III. prohibits the Exportation of Wool. The Act must be construed according to the Meaning of the Makers of it.

Edw. III. set an Impost of Cloth: The Commons they complained against it, yet the King still kept it.

Mr. Bartlett: - Can be no Foundation for this Custom, but only the Statute of Tonage and Poundage. - He thinks it not due by any Law, or Statute, but Prerogative Law. - Nicholson goes only upon that Ground : - Will therefore apply himself to that. - No such Equity to be taken in that Statute, for Three Reasons: 1. If this due to the King, due to former Kings; yet this Duty never demanded, no not in Hen. VII. Time, when Empson and Dudley were in Practice : - Wanted a Nicholson, whom we have. - In Edw. VI. and Queen Marye's Time.

- - In 5 Edw. VI. the Law made, that appropriated the Buying of Wools to the Clothier. In Queen Marye's Time, Callice lost, where the Staple of Wool was:

Pretermitted Customs.

Then the Power of Transportation of Wool was lost, and this Subsidy also, of 33 s. 4d. of a Sack of Wool. So she lost her Revenue, and thought upon this Course to be relieved. 2d Reason, out of the Words of the Statute.

- These 12 upon every Pound in Value, not in Weight: An Exception of Cloth, made in the Kingdom, and exported ; and of Wool, Wool-fells, and Leather. Then follows the Clause of 33 s. 4 d. out of a Sack of Wool: Such, as carried out in a Sack. The Law-makers purposely omitted Cloth. The Exception of Cloth not general, but only for Denizens. Pewter, made of Tin, mentioned in that Statute. 3. All Cloth must pay after 2d. a Pound, which not according to the Rule of Justice. Some Wool not worth above 3 or 4d. a Pound. - According to the arithmetical, not geometrical Proportion.

- In the Statute of Quia emptores terrarum, the Words, " secundum quantitatem" expounded, " secundum qualitatem."

Mr. Solicitor: - This a Cause of a great deal of Weight: Concerns the King many thousands a Year. - Desires to have a Time, to defend the King's Right.

Sir Fran. Seymour: - This a tender Point: Concerns the King's Prerogative, and the Subjects Liberty. - Likes to have a Petition, to acquaint his Majesty with it. For those, who have been the Instruments of all these Mischiefs, Nicholson; to have a Time appointed, to examine him; and who were the Referees in this Cause, that certified it was legal, and convenient.

Sir Rob. Philips: - Question thus, whether this Imposition can be laid by Law. Fit, the King's Counsel should have Time to answer this Point; and then to appoint a select Committee.

Mr. Noy : - Not to have Men assigned by the House, to defend this Custom. That a strange Course. Mr. Nicholson hath 1,000 l. per Annum out of these Customs.

- To have him hire Counsel, to defend it, if they can.

Mr. Nicholson required by the House to bring in his last Patent to the House, on Friday next, in the Morning ; and then to come provided with Counsel, to defend it, if he desire.

Proceedings against Fowles.

A Petition read, from Mathias Fowles.

Warden of the Fleet called in. Demanded, by Mr. Speaker, how Fowles came first to his Charge, and the Time; answereth, he came to him 15 May last: First Prisoner there Four or Five Year ago. There was a Suspension of his imprisonment: - Hath been in his Custody ever since. Sometimes he hath let him go abroad, to mediate an End : Agreed to let him go abroad with his Keeper, to attend this House. - 20 l. paid, 30 l. unpaid. - Not upon any voluntary yielding of himself, but because he gave not Security.

Math. Fowles, called in, saith, he was a Prisoner to the Fleet about Two Years since. 26 May last, a new Order for his Commitment. - Days of Payment not yet come.

- And the Warden kept him in Prison, only gave him Leave to go abroad, to attend his Business in this House.

A select Committee, to consider of the Offence of Fowles: - Mr. Comptroller, Sir Edw. Cooke, Sir Tho. Wentworth, Sir Fra. Seymor, Mr. Selden, Mr. Banks, Sir Hen. Poole, Mr. Cooke, Sir Guy Palmes, Mr. Mallory, Sir Fra. Barnham, Sir Natha. Rich, Sir Peter Hayman, Sir Jo. Strangewaies, Sir Tho. Estcourt, Mr. Wainsford, Sir Edw. Payton, Mr. Alford, Sir Tho. Savyle, Mr. Pym, Sir Fran. Barrington, Sir Tho. Hoby: These are appointed by the . . consider of Fowles' Offence, and of his Punishment; and likewise of the Manufacture of gold and silver Thread; - Thursday next, Two Clock, Star-chamber. The Warden of the Fleet to bring Fowles to this Committee.

Records in the Lords.

Mr. Solicitor: - The Committee, for drawing the Bill of Subsidy, desire to see some Records above in the Lords House. - To have the Speaker's Warrant for the Sight of them.

Mr. Burroughes appointed to bring the Records to the Committee.