House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 19 February 1607 (2nd scribe)

Jovis, 19 die Februarii, 1606

Committees.

COMMITTEE for Inmates, - Temple, Saturday. Committee for Curriers, - Saturday, Temple.

Letter, &c. in behalf of a Prisoner.

A Letter from Sir Noell Caron, to Mr. Speaker, to move the House, touching Bateman: Which was read by the Clerk.

A Petition from Mr. Hutchins, the Serjeant, for the Mercy of the House.

To be brought up.

Q. Whether Hutchins, the Serjeant, upon his Submission should be delivered : - Resolved, He should be brought to the Bar To-morrow.

Beer, &c.

Mr. Fuller, - with Amendments, B. To restrain the Utterance, &c. - Ingrossetur.

Drunkenness.

Bill of Drunkenness, &c. - Ingrossetur. - Quest. in both.

Canons.

Bill of Canons, &c. - Sir Francis Barrington. - Amendments.

Committees.

Sir H. Poole. - Bathyrst; Bourchier, Baro: - This Afternoon, in the Temple.

Union with Scotland.

. . Dyett: - A great Body ; with tacebo, slowly ; with placebo, too fast: - With a good Conscience, as it ought. - Question of Law, of State. -

Whether they be Aliens, by Law : Whether fit to be naturalized.

They be distinct Realms; born under several Laws ; ergo -

The Case of Ireland, and of Normandy, much differ: By Sword, the One ; not by Descent merely. -

Aliens in Enmity: Aliens in Amity: Denizens: Naturals. -

A Prior Alien, though in Enmity, may have Actions, real and personal, but not in his own Capacity. -

The true Perfection of Glory and Honour is either occasioned by Union, or found in it -

Salomon. " Honour in Multitude." The Bond of Peace and Prosperity, Union.

Mr. Holt; - It is greater in Consequence, and Importance, than we all know : Not in Difficulty, or Perplexity, so great. -

So extraordinary a Question, as we must abandon our Books. -

We should resign our Judgments to other Mens. Both dangerous. -

Not to hang upon Judgments of the Judges.

The State of the Question, Whether those, that be born since this late Union, be natural. -

Several publick Estates. Persons, Goods, Lands, Liberties, and Lives, subject to the King's politick Capacity. -

All the Power we ascribe to the King.

If all be several, how can natural Subjects be born? -

1. Reason : The King hath not Power to make Naturalization, of himself, by Unity in his Person.

2. Reason : Common Law limited to the Compass of this Land, and only by the Benefit of that Law naturalized. How those that be born in another Kingdom -

Ireland no Example. A Judgment in the King's Bench reversible, by Error, in the King's Bench here: Never known in Ireland. -

Regalities, Legalities, Fidelities, distinct. Examples of Parcels of Kingdoms no suiting Examples.

2. Question, Whether it can be convenient, or commodious to transfer, communicate; to make an Alienation of the very Marrow. -

Consumption in our own; a Tumor, and Impostume, in another. -

No Security for the King, and his Posterity, to put his regular and formal Kingdom into the Hands of a Land not so regular, or formal; not subject to the Coertion of Laws.

Mr. Hedley : - The like Question never came into this House. A Question between Two Brothers. England elder, Scotland younger: Both Sons to One Father. The King Pater patriae. -

Dividing the Inheritance between Two Brothers. -

We are now not to make an Union: It is made already. We are to seek, how to maintain Unity ; to increase Amity, and Love.

The elder Brother to impart to the younger so much as might win Love. -

First determine the Right of Inheritance of the elder Brother, then to give what he thinketh fitting. -

Unions by Conquest - Wales, in E. I. Time. - Common Law makes them presently naturalized ; not so in the Roman Law.

Jus civitatis, jus suffragii, et petitionis, the Law of England. -

An Act in E. IV. Time, that Walshmen should not be capable; should not be Jurors.

26 H. VIII. he united them and made them Naturals; and made them in all respects -

Because the King's Writ, Praecipe, comes not in England, no Argument, no more than in County Palatines. -

Ireland subject to our Law, our Parliament. The King may give Law here to Ireland. -

All born in Barwick natural Subjects; because by Conquest.

Union by Marriage. -

A Judgment in Parliament. -

Out of Mr. Speaker's Speech: - Politick Body to a Body natural.

Whatsoever is not subject to the Soul of the Body, is not Part of the Body. -

The Law the Soul of every Kingdom. -

Dean: - Master of Two Colleges, Parson of Two Churches : No Union. -

Idem genere, idem specie, idem numero: No Likeness at all. -

Idem subjecto, idem causa, idem effectu. -

If the Union be by Marriage, but Brothers of the half of Blood. -

Laws of the Realm. - None inheritable to these Laws, but the Subjects of the same Realm. -

Allegiance. - Allegiance of the King of England, and the King, relata.

Polevicino had 1000 l. a Year in England.

The King hath Two Titles: If as Heir to the Conqueror, by that Title, then by Conquest; then must Scotland be subject to our Laws: The Consequence; - to Taxes, Subsidies. -

Lord Dyer, - Case of medietatem linguae. Reason : Mediate to the King of England; immediate to the King of Scotland, by reason of the Homage.

Rex Scotorum, not Rex Scotiae: Rex Franciae not Francorum.

If by Marriage, Brothers of the half Blood : Then not inheritable.

Whether convenient. - Mischiefs. -

Why should not we do as much as France ?

Answ. Freeholders in England better than Gentlemen in France.

Strength of Freeholders: Bellatores: Chief Strength. -

The King, by the Common Law, may grant a Ne exeas regnum, for Englishmen; the Scotts he cannot: Then -

The Scotts may have Lands, and will not be resident; for they live more freely: No Privy Seal for Money ; no Law, to take their Money from them.

Justice, suum cuique tribuere. - Matters in Law, Matter in Fact, Matter of Equity. Most Matters tryable by the Country. * -

Scotts may grant Subsidies, and pay none, if they be of our Parliament.

The King cannot do Justice for any Englishman against a Scottishman. -

A great Lord hath Lands here : Leaves his Lands here : The Tenant cannot have Remedy. -

Lord Burley: - As Impropriations overthrow the Church, Incorporations of Liberties overthrow the Common Law. -

To make the Scottishmen better than ourselves, not intended, not desired. -

Attainder in Scotland doth not forfeit Lands in England. -

The King make Denizen but during his Life. -

The Sons, born in Scotland, shall not inherit.

Mr. Crewe: - Nulli tacuisse nocet. -

In a Matter so important, deliberare diu. That, we must statuere semel. -

Aliens, and not natural. - True Nature of Subjection.

- Consider the Relatives: Subjection, and Sovereign. -

Legeancia, a ligo ; legis, a legendo, or a -

The Ligament of all Government. -

The Point that makes a Man Alien, is Subjection. -

King : - We declare, that our Subjects, shall not owe any Obedience to us, as Subjects of France: -

Answer to the Case of Prior Alien. -

Comparison of France. - Gascoigne and Guyen Seigniories, no Crowns.

The Mayor of Burdeaux committed one to Prison : Habeas Corpus out of the King's Bench. -

Answer to the Case of the Duke of Richmond. -

Consider the Contraries. We all natural of Scotland, sithence the King's coming. -

Moved, that we might bind ourselves, not to declare the Law, in a Conference. -

To limit ourselves. -

A Reader: - This is Treason : This is Prerogative. - Consider, whether, saving the Prerogative, frustrate the Cautions. -

How many in the University. -

They shall know, they be younger Brethren.

Sir Rob. Hitcham: - If the Laws of England were to be made again, as much Reason against them, as with them. -

If a Kingdom be conquered, the old Law stands still, till the King proclaims a new Law. -

That they are not naturalized.

Mr. Martin : - Caution, before we prepare it: Time to ripen it. -

Not to resolve of the Declaration. -

To have a speedy Committee.

Mr. Hyde : - He is for the Union; yet more lovingly -

Not inheritable to our Laws, therefore not sub legeancia.

- Not to such a Man a King.

Inhabitants of Guyen, Suitors. - Let Charters be made, so only declared. -

Entertain Scotland, as our Brothers, as lovingly, as any younger Brothers. -

Let the Fathers, and Sons, be all one. If they be naturalized, and add Cautions, we do them wrong. -

Better to declare them not naturalized : More of Gift, King to reward them with Enfranchisement. -

That we do, as they may know, we do it of Favour.