House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 07 May 1621

Lunae, 7o Maii

Wolferston Estate.

L. 1a. AN Act for Restitution of the Possession, and Establishing of the Manor, of Prees, and other Lands in the County of Lancaster, to Robert Wolferston, Edm. and Charles Wolferston, &c.

New River Company.

L. 1a. An Act for the Confirmation of certain Letters Patents, by the King's Majesty that now is, to the Governor and Company of the New River, brought from Chadwell and Amwell to London, and for Granting of Liberties to the said Governor and Company.

Usury.

L. 2a. An Act for the Abatement of Usury.

Sir Edw. Mountague, - against the Bill: - For alloweth Usury, which not allowed by the Law, or Church of England.

Sir Geor. Moore, contra: So Sir H. Poole. - This alloweth not, but restraineth only from Ten to Eight. - To have the Penalties may be recovered. -

Mr. Mynn: - To commit the Bill, and insert something against Brokage.

Mr. Prowse: - This Bill formerly cast out: Unfit now. The Time short, for taking in of Money : May much distress both Gentlemen and Merchants.

Mr. Whitson, - against the Bill. - Against the Provision for not Selling of Wares, for Time, at above 8 l. per Cent.

Mr. Guy: - To have Consideration of Mortgages, where the Time not yet come.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - Doubteth, the Bruit of this Bill may do much Hurt, and undo those Men which owe Money. - Dutch Money.

Dr. Gooch: - Usury condemned in all Commonwealths: Yet but weakened, not taken away. - Doubteth thus abating will take it away. - That this will undo most

of the Gentry of England: Will bring down the Price of Land. No Man will lend Money, and so many Mortgages may be lost.

Mr. Neale, accordant: - Yet thinketh, this may be helped at the Committee.

Committed to Sir Geor. Moore, Sir H. Poole, Sir Edw. Mountague, Citizens of London, Sir Wm. Strowde, Sir Jo. Cutts, Sir H. Spiller, Sir Tho. Hamond, Sir Nath. Rich, Sir Francis Barrington, Sir P. Fretchwell, Sir P. Hayman, Mr. Bowyer, Sir Francis Darcy, Mr. Hackwyll, Mr. Mynn, Sir Edw. Sackvyle, Sir Wm. Pooley, Sir Cary Reynolds, Mr. Salisbury, Dr. Gooch, Sir Tho. Wyse, Sir Ro. Bevyll, Sir Myles Sands, Sir Edw. Peyton, Sir Edw. Seymor, Sir W. Heale, Mr. Neale: All, that will come, to have Voices : - Wednesday next, Exchequer Chamber.

Sea-marks, &c.

For the Bill for Sea-marks, and Mariners. -

Sir Ro. Killigrew, - For the Bill. - Drawn by Order of the House: Differing from the former: And no Monopoly. - To commit it.

Mr. Hackwill, accordant: - And, if it were a Monopoly, no Danger, if pass this House.

Mr. Rolles: - That he, by the Committee's Appointment, drew this Bill. - Done by Consent of the Lord Admiral.

Sir Wm. Earle: - That by this Bill, much more for the Lights at Dongeon-nesse, than for the other at Winterdon-nesse.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - That forgotten here, to provide for Recompence for the Patentees. - That the Committee may take Consideration hereof, when the Bill is considered of.

Sir Christofer Hildyard: - This a dangerous Bill; because bound to keep the Light continually; and so Enemies may come in. - To have this provided for.

Sir Edw. Coke: - No Sense to speak this to be a Monopoly. 8 Eliz. gave the Trinity-house the same Power. A Body politique more fit, than any other; for never dieth. - Moveth, the Committee may facilitate this Bill. - The former Patents against the Law; yet, - that the Patentees may have some Recompence. - Which Motion generally allowed : And Resolved.

Sir Rich. Gravenor offereth a Petition concerning Extortions by the Trinity-house.

Sir J. Perrott, - against the Bill, for Sir Geor. Moore's Reason ; because the other rejected.

Mr. Cage: - That this Bill cometh by the Petition of the Navigators. - This Bill so provideth against the Trinity-house; as, doubteth, they will not accept it. - Committed to Sir Edw. Coke, Sir Francis Darcy, Burgesses of London and Port Towns, Barons of the Cinque Ports, Sir H. Withrington, Mr. Hackwill, Sir G. Houghton, Sir Guy Palmes, Mr. Pye, Sir Edw. Sackvyle, Mr. Mallory, Sir Ro. Killigrew, Sir H. Poole, Sir Rich. Worseley, Mr. Lovell, Sir Charles Howard, Burgesses of Yorke : - Friday next. Exchequer Chamber.

Customers Exactions.

L. 2a. An Act to avoid Extortions of Customers, Comptrollers, -

Mr. Earle, - for the Committing of the Bill.

Mr. Neale : - Great Cause to restrain the Exactions of these Officers. - Oft 2 more, than the King's Customs.

- For Salt, 6s. Custom, 20 s. Exaction for Bushelage, &c. - That this Committee may have Power to appoint some Fees, in some Cases, where none: And to have some good Time appointed. -

Mr. Delbridge: - That an incredible Exaction upon Lyme-barges at Barnestaple.

Mr. Matthewes reckoneth divers extreme Exactions in the Town, for which he serveth -

Committed to all the Burgesses of the Port Towns, Sir Edw. Gyles, Sir Wm. Strowde, Mr. Hackwill, Mr. Morgan, Sir D. Digges, Sir W. Heale, Sir Ph. Carye, Citizens of London, Sir Wm. Pitt, Mr. Rolles, Sir A. Ingram, Mr. Neale, Mr. Hopton, Mr. Arondell, Knights and Burgesses of South Wales, Knights of Devon, Sir Edw. Mountagew, Mr. Bagg . - To-morrow sevennight. Exchequer Court. - To have Power to send for the Customers, or any other, they shall think fit.

Improving Commons.

L. 2a. An Act for the better improving -

Sir Ro. Phillippes, - against this Bill. - To alter the State of the Commons in his Country, like to prove very dangerous : - Would not breed any Quiet, but Trouble, in their Country. - If to commit it, then to have a Proviso for that Country.

Sir Edw. Peyton: - This Bill dangerous for his County, in this dangerous Season. - Good for his own Particular: Would be 1,000 l. per Annum to him: But bad for the Publick.

Mr. Denny, accordant. - Kett's Insurrection. - The Eye of Providence can hardly foresee the Mischiefs.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle desireth an Exception for Sussex.

Sir Ro. Payne: - Innovations dangerous. This the greatest, that came into the Parliament this Session. - The Tail of an Heathcock, the Head of an Eel. - Aimeth at Grounds, worth 15 s. an Acre, and better. - The Fens the Subject and Cause of this Bill. - This hath been proposed here in Parliament, in former Times, and at Council Table; yet ever Thom. Drome's Entertainment.

- Their Meadows extremely hurt, by Stopping of One Bank in the Fens. If the Commons shall be inclosed, all Shires, whither these Rivers run -

Mr. Mallory, who called for Reading the Bill, excuseth himself. - Glad of the Voice of Rejection.

Sir Edw. Coke: - A Writ De admensuratione pasturae. Not to meddle in this Parliament with Commons. - Opinion of the Multitude dangerous. The Philosophers Stone and this alike. -

Upon Question, not to be committed.

Upon second Question, not to be ingrossed. - Obdormit.

Quarrel between Members.

Sir Christofer Hildyard remembereth the Difference between Sir Cha. Morrison, and Mr. Clement Coke.

Mr. Alford: - To have the House undertake it; because many Endeavours have been to compose it, and cannot.

Sir Edw. Sackvyle: - To have the House judge this Business.

Both these Gentlemen to be sent for, to be here Tomorrow Morning; and the Business to be deferred till then : And Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer to have Warning to be here.

Sir H. Withrington : - That he, amongst others, appointed to mediate in this Business: That they met twice, but could not end it; for would not be referred to them.

Sir Edw. Cecill: - To restrain them to the Serjeant, till the Matter heard here.

Sir H. Fane: - Not to defer it. - The Lords did presently examine it, and take Order - it. - To have Mr. Speaker come hither at Four of the Clock, and they to be then here; and so to end it.

Sir Geor. Manners, accordant

Sir Tho. Hobby: - This the Day for Grievances: Divers appointed to attend with Counsel. - To defer it till the Morning.

Sir J. Perrott, accordant.

Sir Sam. Sands: - A Member of this House, stricken, went to the Marshal's Court for Help. - Therefore to give no Way to further Breach upon our Privileges. - To-morrow Morning.

Mr. Mallory moveth for a Committee.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - To take Order, they may not hurt each other in the mean time.

Sir Ca. Reynolds : - To have the Commandment of the House laid upon them, not to meddle.

Mr. Treasurer: - That Mr. Chancellor and he, laid the King's Commandment upon Sir Char. Morrison; and that Sir Bap. Hickes hath undertaken for him.

Sir Edw. Coke refuseth to undertake for his Son. - Hath not seen him, sithence the Quarrel began.

Mr. Whitby undertaketh for Mr. Cl. Coke: And moveth, the Gentlemen, formerly appointed, with some others appointed, may, as from the House, have Power: And undertaketh, that Mr. Coke shall be here in the Morning. And Sir Bap. Hickes undertaketh also for Sir Ch. Morrison.

Sir D. Digges thanketh the House for their -

Merchants of the Staple.

L. 2a. An Act, restoring the free Trade of the Merchants of the Staple, for the Exportation of Cloth, and all other Manufactures made of Wool, into Parts beyond the Seas. -

Sir Tho. Rowe: - The Disturbance of the Charter of Merchant Adventurers like to prove dangerous, by this Bill; for this overthroweth the Company of Merchant Adventurers : And Danger, by suffering Men at large to carry Cloth over. - That many Clothiers already complain. Sir H. Poole . - That the Clothiers complain ; but this Bill a Means to relieve it. - The more Buyers, the better. Mr. Glanvyle: - Hath perused the Patent of the Merchant Adventurers, consisting of 14 Skins of Parchment. * Patents recited therein, in, and downwards, in and from H. VI. Time. - That, in many of the Charters, Exception of the Merchants of the Staple's Privileges ; yea, in their Patent, 15o Jac. Sir Ro. Phillippes: - Fit to regulate the Abuses of the Merchant Adventurers.

Mr. Towerson: - At this Time 13,000 Cloths upon the Merchant Adventurers Hands, within the City of London; not 500 upon the Clothiers Hands. - That these 500 of Cloths used to be worn here; not now vendible, because Summer towards.

Sir Tho. Wentworth: - To have this Bill referred to the Committee, already appointed; to the Committee for free Trade.

Sir D. Digges: - That this Bill directly to confront the Merchant Adventurers Patent by that for the Staplers, which more ancient. - Dangerous, to innovate so much of a sudden, as to put down the Merchant Adventurers.

Sir Edw. Coke, accordant: - And to provide so, as the Course of Trade be not hindered. - Order must be holden, or else Enlargement -

Committed to the Committee for free Trade; which is, to the whole House: - To-morrow in the Afternoon.

Privilege.

Mr. Downes moveth, that one Alexander Melling, One of the Chancellor of the Duchy his Servants, may have Privilege.

They that arrested him to be sent for.

Myneheade Writ.

Mr. Pimme moveth for a Warrant for a new Choice, in the Room of Sir Ro. Lloyde, for Myneheade; One sitting now in the House for that Town.

Mr. Glanvyle, - for a new Writ.

Resolved, A Warrant for a new Writ.

Sutton's Hospital.

L. 2a. - Sutton's Hospital. -

Sir Edw. Coke -

Jurisdiction of Parliament - Punishing Floyde.

Mr. Serjeant Crew and Sir Wm. Bird bring from the Lords a Message ; desiring a Re-conference about Floyde's Business, free of either Side, by the Committee of both Houses, To-morrow, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber, if the Occasions of this House will permit.

Sir Geor. Chaworth: - To take some longer Time ; and to send an Answer to the Lords by our own Messengers, To-morrow Morning.

Sir Geor. Moore, contra : - And, to hold their Time.

Sir Edw. Coke: - Now we have given our Judgment, not to admit any Judges, or learned Counsel of the King.

Answer returned by the same Messengers, that the House will attend the Conference, at the Time and Place, according as is desired.

Sir W. Earle: - That Sir Edw. Mountague, Sir Edw. Peyton, and Mr. Noye, have Precedents. - Desireth, they may produce them. Sir Edw. Mountague: - That he hath none fit.

Sir Edw. Peyton: - That the Lords have nothing to do with the Commons, because represent not the Commons.

- 4o Ed. III. that the Lords acknowleged, they had not to do with the Commons [a]. - That the King and Commons may keep a Parliament; not the King and Lords.

- Hopeth to produce more than these.

Sir Edw. Sands: - Great Report, and Joy, both at home and abroad, of the Union with the King and both Houses, and between the Houses. - To have no Division with the Lords. To stir no new Question, nor produce any new Precedent. - That the Question now, not of the Liberties of either House. That we claimed, and the Lords yielded, that we Privilege over any Member of the House, or dependent upon them. The only Question is, whether this Matter of Floyde can be brought within this Jurisdiction, which we claim, and they yield. - Questions engender Questions, and, in the End, Strife.

- Told them, no Precedent in hoc individuo; for never happened before, nor, hopeth, will do after. - Moveth, that the Lords, and we, may appoint a Sub-committee, to accommodate the Business, without questioning the Privileges of either House.

Mr. Brooke, accordant.

Dr. Gooch: - This Offence, concerning the King's Children, concerneth the King; and concerning the King, concerneth us. The Wrong to the Child is a Wrong to the Father. He that maketh the Child but in the State of a Yeoman, affirmeth, no Sovereignty in the King. That Privy Counsellors Part of the King's Body. -

Committee.

Committed to Sir Edw. Coke, Master of the Wards,. Sir A. Ingram, Sir H. Poole, Sir Ro. Askew, Sir Edw. Mountague, Dr. Gooch, Sir Tho. Row, Sir Geor. Moore, Mr. Hackwill, Sir W. Heale, Sir Geor. Manners, Sir Tho. Low, Sir Jo. Brooke, Mr. Pymme, Sir Ph. Carye, Sir Tho. Barrington: - Wednesday, Court of Wards.