House of Commons Journal Volume 3: 4 November 1644

Pages 685-687

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 3, 1643-1644. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Die Lunæ, Novembris 4, 1644.


Minister, &c. of the Savoy.

MR. Nicoll reports the Opinion of the Committee of the West, to whom the humble Petition of John Bond, Minister of the Savoy, was referred: And

It is thereupon Resolved, &c. That all the Profits, with the Arrears belonging to the Master of the Savoy, shall be paid unto Mr. Bond the present Minister: And that he shall enjoy and receive the same Profits, in as full and ample manner as Doctor Belcarquall, late Master thereof, or any other Master, did, might, or ought to receive the same: And that he shall have likewise and enjoy his said Master's Lodgings in the said Savoy.

The Lords Concurrence to be desired herein.

Resolved, &c. That the sequestered Goods in the Lodgings of the Master of the Savoy, amounting to the Value of Ninety-seven Pounds Six Shillings, shall be disposed of, and left to the Use of Mr. Bond Minister of the Savoy.

Wounded Soldiers.

Resolved, &c. That there shall be a Collection in the Parishes and Places within the Lines of Communication, to be bestowed to the Relief of the Soldiers come lately wounded from Newbery.

An Ordinance was brought in to this Purpose, and assented unto; and sent unto the Lords, for their Concurrence, by Mr. Holland.

Davison's &c. Petition.

Ordered, That the humble Petition of Lieutenant Colonel Davison, Major Powell, and the rest of the Officers belonging to Colonel Edw. Apsleye's Regiment, formerly referred to the Committee for the Association of Kent, Sussex, Surrey, and Hants (the which Committee is determined), be now referred to the Consideration of the Knights and Burgesses of the said Counties of Kent, Sussex, Surry, and Hants.

Statue at Rowhampton.

Resolved, &c. That the last Order made concerning the Brass Statue and Horse sold at Rowhampton, as to the Sale thereof, be revoked, and made void.

Money for Army.

Ordered, That Mr. Strode, Mr. Ashe, and Mr. Bond, be added to Mr. Solicitor and Mr. Recorder; to take care of the Bringing-in and Payment of the Monies assigned to my Lord General.

Gloucester Committee.

Resolved, &c. That Wm. Jones, of Uske, Esquire, be added to the Committee of Gloucester, &c.

Delinquent's Estate.

Ordered, That the Monies and Estate discovered of one Mr. Collins, a notorious Delinquent, be referred to the Examination and Consideration of the Committee for Plymouth: And that, if the said Estate shall prove sequestrable and forfeitable to the State, and not before discovered, that then it shall be employed for the Raising and Maintaining of the Forces raised for Plymouth, in such manner as the said Committee shall appoint: And that it be referred to the same Committee, to take care of recovering and bringing in of the said Monies, if they shall prove forfeitable, as aforesaid.

Message to Lords.

Mr. Holles carried up to the Lords the Letters and Papers received from Newcastle; and the Order concerning the sending to the Assembly of Divines, to give an Account, how far they have proceeded in the Matter of the Government of the Church: The Order, made in Answer to the Message of the Lords, concerning Mr. Anth. Fortescue: The Ordinance concerning the Reimbursement of One thousand Two hundred Pounds to Sir Jo. Potts, furnished by him, for the sending of Provisions to the Armies.

Letter to the Armies.

Mr. Recorder reports, from the Committee of both Kingdoms, The Draught of a Letter to be sent to the Armies: The which was read; and assented unto; and ordered to be sent unto the Lords for their Concurrence: And was immediately delivered to Mr. Holles, to be carried up accordingly.

Memorandum in Sir P. Osborne's Office.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee of the King's Revenue, to examine and inquire how and by what Means that Memorandum entered upon the Book of Memorandums in the Office, late Sir Peter Osborne's Office, was entered; to this Purpose; viz.

Memorand. quod 23 die Octobris 1642, Carolus Rex dissipavit inimicos suos apud Edgehill.

Mr. Recorder, to take care * * * *.

Advance from Excise.

Resolved, &c. That Six thousand Pounds shall be forth . . . . borrowed of the Commissioners of Excise, by way of Advance, and be paid to Sir Gilbert Gerard, Treasurer at Wars; whereof Five . . . ., to be disposed of to the Armies, in such manner as the Committee of both Kingdoms shall direct.

Mr. Long, Mr. Prideaux, and Mr. Bond, are appointed to go to the Commissioners of Excise, to acquaint them with this Order; and the pressing Necessity of it; and to bring their Answer: They are likewise to bring their Answer touching the Furnishing of Mrs. Jane Meldrum, the Wife of Colonel Meldrum, slain in the Parliament's Service, with a Hundred Pounds.

Publick Thanksgiving.

Resolved, &c. That in the Publick Thanksgiving appointed to be had To-morrow, Notice to be taken of the great Success it has pleased God to give the Parliament Forces, in the Recovery and Retaking of Liverpoole: And likewise that Notice be taken of the great Success the Parliament Forces have lately had over the Enemies Forces in Lincolneshire.

The Lords Concurrence was desired herein by Mr. Ashherst: And

It is Ordered, That Notice hereof be given to the Lord Mayor, to send particular Intimations thereof to the particular Ministers.

Propositions for Peace, &c.

A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Page and Doctor Aylett;

The Lords desire a present Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, presently, in the Painted Chamber, if it may stand with the Conveniency of this House, concerning the Propositions of both Kingdoms, for a safe and wellgrounded Peace; and likewise the Propositions of the City: They understand, That Mr. Paynter, of the Assembly of Divines, is dead: They have thought fit to add Mr. Jo. Ward, of Ipswich, in his stead; and desire the Concurrence of this House: They likewise desire to put this House in mind of the Petition of Mrs. Farrer, the Widow of Colonel Farrer, slain in the Parliament's Service.

Answer returned by the same Messengers, That this House has considered their Lordships Message; and will give a present Meeting at a Conference, as is desired: And, as to Mr. Jo. Ward, and the Petition of Mrs. Farrer, they will send Answer by Messengers of their own.

Sir Hen. Vane junior, Mr. Pierrepont, Mr. Recorder, Mr. Whitelock, Sir Philip Stapilton, are appointed Reporters of this Conference.

Members to be examined.

Ordered, That Mr. Reynolds, Sir Jo. Clottworthy, the Lieutenant of the Tower, and Mr. Whittacre, Members of this House, shall have Liberty to be examined as Witnesses, at the Trial of Macguire and Mac Mahon, Irish Rebels.


Ordered, That the Ordinance concerning Crowland, be reported on Wednesday Morning next.

Antinomians, &c.

Ordered, That the Report from the Committee of plundered Ministers, concerning the preventing the Mischiefs that may follow upon the divulging the Opinions of Antinomianism and Anabaptism, be resumed on Thursday Morning next: And that Mr. Speaker put the House in mind hereof.

Reparation to Stockdale.

Ordered, That the Ordinance for Reparation to be given to Mr. Stockdale, be read on Thursday Morning next.


The Amendment, sent from the Lords, to the, Ordinance concerning Jersey, Octobris 21, were this Day read, and assented unto; and the Ordinance appointed to be amended, accordingly.

Leave to visit a Prisoner.

Ordered, That Sir Peter Wentworth shall have the Leave of this House to visit the Earl of Cleveland, a Prisoner in the Tower.

Gallery at Church to be kept for Members.

Ordered, That the Gallery at Saint Margarett Church in Westminster, shall, on every Day of Humiliation or Thanksgiving, be preserved for the Members of both Houses: And that no other Persons besides the said Members be admitted to come thither on those Days, except the Prince Elector, and the Scotts Commissioners, and their Attendants. And Mr. Wheeler and Mr. Bell are desired to take care herein.

Violett's Sequestration.

Whereas the Committee of Essex hath discovered a Debt due to Thomas Violett a Delinquent, imprisoned in the Tower, for a Conspiracy against the Parliament; for which his Estate is seized and sequestered: For which Debt there is an Extent of the Lands of James Waade Esquire, at the Suit of the said Violett, or of some other to his Use, charged upon the Manor of Battles and Payton Hall, and the Lands thereunto belonging, in the County of Essex: Which Debt, by Order of the Commons assembled in Parliament, is appointed to be employed to the Benefit and Advantage of the County of Essex: By virtue whereof, the Committee of Essex have, for Three hundred Pounds, paid in to the said Committee by Edward Elconhead Esquire, granted unto the said Edward Elconhead, the said Debt, Extent, and all Bonds and Securities given or entered into by any Person or Persons, to or for the Use of the said Violett, for or concerning the said Debt, or Extent, or the Profits thereof, or any Money to be paid out of, or by reason thereof, unto, or to the Use of, the said Thomas Vyolett: Be it therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the . . . . Edward Elconhead, and his Assigns, shall have and enjoy the said Manors of Battles, and Payton Hall, and all the Lands therewith extended; and all Rents and Arrearages due or payable for the same, or any Part thereof, during the Continuance of the said Extent: And that the said Edward Elconhead shall have the Benefit of all Bonds or Securities given or entered into, concerning the Premises, by any Person or Persons, to, or to the Use of, the said Thomas Vyolett: And that the said Edward Elconhead may compound for or discharge all or any of the said Bonds or Securities, as he shall think fit: And that the said Committee of Essex, and the said Edward Elconhead, shall be protected in and for the Premises, by Authority of Parliament.

Middlesex Militia.

Ordered and Declared, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That by the First of October last-mentioned, in the Fourteenth Line of the Sixth Page of the printed additional Ordinance for the Ordering of the Militia of the County of Middlesex, bearing Date 25 Octobris 1644, is meant and intended, the First of October in the Year 1643; and so to be reputed and taken: And that the Printer do alter the same accordingly.

Propositions for Peace.

Mr. Peirepont reports the Conference with the Lords: That, at this Conference, the Lords delivered the Propositions of both Kingdoms, to be presented unto His Majesty, for a safe and well-grounded Peace, with such Alterations as the Lords had made in them.

The Alterations were as followeth:

"First, They desire, That the Title to the Propositions, which followeth the Preamble, may be left out, in regard they conceive it is repeated in the Preamble."

Resolved, The Title to stand.

"The other Alterations follow, in hæc Verba:"

"Page 6. In the First Qualification of the Fourteenth Proposition; Prince Rupert and Prince Maurice to be put out of the First Qualification; and to be banished out of the King's Dominions."

A Proposition to be drawn to that Purpose.

"James Earl of Derby, John Lord Pawlett, Sir John Byron Knight, Sir Ralph Hopron Knight, to be put out of the First Qualification; and put into the Second."

Resolved, To adhere to the Proposition as it went from hence.

" Lord Herbert E. Wigorn', Sir Edward Herbert Knight, his Majesty's Attorney General, Captain Geo. Cartwright, Sir Faithfull Fortescue Knight, to be added to those of the First Qualification."

Agreed to this Addition.

Fourth Qualification. " Sir John Fitzherbert Knight, Sir Peter Osborne Knight, to be exempted out of the Second Qualification."

Resolved, To adhere as it went from hence.

" E. Marleborough, Sir Jo. Pennington Knight, Mr. Doctor Mericke, to be added to the Second Qualification."

Agree to the Addition.

" Pag' 7a, 2a Qualif'. Quere, What is intended by the Words " Papists, and Popish Recusants;" and so quite through the Qualifications and Propositions.

Resolved, The Words to stand as they went from hence.

" Pag' 8a, Line 12a. The Clause concerning the Rebellion in the North, and the Invasion in the South, to be advised about, by the Committees of this House for the Kingdoms, with the Scotts Commissioners.

Thus explained; after the Word " South," in the Fourteenth Line of the Eighth Page, these Words to be added, " of the said Kingdom of Scotland;" and after the Word "made," in the same Line, " there" to be added.

" Pag' 8, Lin' 20a. After the Word " coming," and before the Word "within," put in the Word "wittingly."


Pag' 9a, Lin' 5a. After the Word " Doctors," and before the Word "Advocates," put in these Words, " Masters of the Chancery."


" Pag' 9a, Lin' 11a. After the Word " all," and before the Word " Clergymen," put out the Word "Bishops."

Adhere as it went from hence.

" Pag' 8a, Lin' 16a. After the Word " Parliament," put out all to the Word " may" in the Eighth Line; and instead thereof put in these Words, "who have deserted the Parliament, and have adhered to those that levy War against the Parliament, and have voted against the Parliament of both Kingdoms, and have not rendered themselves to one or both Houses of Parliament, before the last of October 1644."

" Pag.' 8a, Lin' 18a. After the Word "voted," put in these Words, " the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, and their Adherents, to be Traitors;" and the Words " both Kingdoms . . . . Traitors," to be left out.

" Twelfth Proposition, Fol. 5. It is mentioned, That the late Treaty for the Coming of the Scotts Army into England, and the Settling of the Garison of Barwicke, is of the Third of January 1643; whereas, in Truth, it is dated, in the Originals, on the Nine-and-twentieth November 1643. It is also mentioned, That the Treaty concerning Ireland is of the Seventh of July 1641; which is dated, in the Original, the Sixth of August 1642."

The Books to be searched.

That a Committee of both Houses be appointed to draw up a Proposition for the Banishing of Prince Rupert and Prince Maurice out of his Majesty's Dominions; and to consider of the Words " Papists, and Popish Recusants;" that it be so waved, that such as are intended thereby, do not evade the Propositions.

He further reported, " That the Lords acquainted them that they had received a Message from the House of Commons in hæc verba"; viz.

"Die Martis, 29 die Octobris, 1644."

"A Message was brought from the House of Commons by Mr. Reynolds; to present to this House some Propositions in Behalf of the City of London, to be tendered to the King, with the rest: Which Propositions the House of Commons have debated, and agreed to; and desired their Lordships Concurrence therein."

Propositions for Peace.

" Their Lordships desire to be satisfied, Whether it be the Intention of this House, that the Propositions on the Behalf of the City of London, should go along with the Propositions of both Kingdoms; and be tendered together with them to his Majesty."

This House doth agree to the Alterations in the Sixteenth and Eighteenth Lines of the Eighth Page, thus amended; viz. "Who have deserted the Parliament, and have adhered to those that levy War against the Parliament; or have voted the Parliament of both Kingdoms, and their Adherents, to be Traitors; or have met in the pretended Assembly of Lords and Commons of Parliament at Oxon; and have not rendered themselves to one or both Houses of Parliament, before the last of October 1644."

Resolved, &c. That the Propositions concerning the City of London shall be presented unto his Majesty, with the Propositions of both Kingdoms, as Part of the Propositions of both Kingdoms, for a safe and well-grounded Peace.

Ordered, That a Conference be desired with the Lords, concerning the Amendments to the Propositions: And that the Managers of the Conference this Day do then offer Reasons to the Lords, concerning the Votes this Day passed: And that the Lords be desired to hasten the Passing of these, and the City Propositions, that they may with Speed be sent to the King: And the Managers of this Conference are to compare the Dates of the Treaties concerning Scotland.

Relief of Prisoners.

Whereas, by Orders of this House, Collections have been made in the Cities of London and Westminster, and within the Lines of Communication, for the Relief of the Prisoners in Oxford, and elsewhere; It is this Day Ordered, That the Committee for Prisoners shall have Power to allot such Sum or Sums, as they shall think fit, for the Relief of the Persons above-mentioned: And any Order from the said Committee shall be sufficient Warrant to Colonel Manwaring, Colonel West, and Major Bash, for the Issuing forth of the said Monies.