House of Commons Journal Volume 4: 20 October 1646

Pages 699-701

Journal of the House of Commons: Volume 4, 1644-1646. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1802.

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Die Martis, 20 Octobris, 1646.


THE Grand Committee of the House sat, to take into Consideration the Ordinance for appointing the Sale of the Bishops Lands.

Mr. Sandys in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Upon Mr. Sandys' Report from the Grand Committee for the Ordinance for appointing the Sale of the Bishops Lands;

It is Ordered, That the House do meet in a Committee, To-morrow Morning at Eight of the Clock, to take into further Consideration the Ordinance for appointing the Sale of the Bishops Lands, the first Business.

Ordered, That the House do meet in a Committee, on Monday Morning next, at Eight of the Clock, to take into further Consideration the Ordinance concerning Blasphemies and Heresies, the first Business: And that the Reports from the Committee, concerning the Articles of Oxford, be made, the first Business, after Mr. Speaker comes to the Chair.

Sir Robert Harley went to the Lords, to desire a free Conference, by Committees of both Houses, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Matter of the last Conference concerning the Great Seal, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency.

Ordered, That all the Members of the House do attend the Funerals of the Earl of Essex, at Essex-House, on Thursday next, at Ten of the Clock.

And it is further Resolved, &c. That the House, Tomorrow, at the Rising, do adjourn till Friday at Eight of the Clock.

Resolved, &c. That Colonel Roger Mostyn, late Governor of Flint-Castle, and the Governor and others in Denbigh-Castle, at the Surrendering thereof, shall have Liberty to compound for their Delinquencies, at such Rates as if they had come in before the First of December last: And that this Liberty shall extend to all, but such as, being under the First and Second Exception, are exempted from Pardon.

Resolved, &c. That Colonel Thomas Mitton shall have Power to offer reasonable Conditions to all the Castles in North-Wales, that yet hold out: And that, if they shall not surrender within a Fortnight after such Signification of Conditions unto them, that they shall expect no Mercy.

A Letter from Denbigh, of 14 Octobris 1646, from Colonel Thomas Mitton, was this Day read; and ordered to be referred to the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland: Who are to consider of the Sending over of Colonel Mitton's Forces, or so many of them as can be ready, for the Service of Ireland: And this House doth declare, That they will account the Going over of the said Forces, or any of them, into Ireland, a very acceptable Service.

Ordered, That Mr. Recorder do prepare a Letter, to be signed by Mr. Speaker, and directed to Colonel Mitton, to convey unto him the Votes aforesaid, inclosed.

Sir Robert Harley brings Answer, That the Lords will grant a free Conference, by Committees of both Houses, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Matter of the last Conference concerning the Great Seal, presently.

Ordered, That the Committee, Yesterday appointed to prepare Heads for the Conference, be Managers and Reporters of this free Conference.

A Letter from the Commissioners of Scotland, from Worcester-House, of 20 , Octobris 1646, was this Day read.

The House being informed, That the Sheriffs of London had given Order to their Under-Officers not to arrest any Persons privileged from Arrests by the Articles of Oxford, or otherwise; and that, notwithstanding such their Directions, their said Under-Officers do arrest those that are within those Articles, or otherwise privileged; and that one * Hawkes, a Serjeant in the Poultry-Compter, and * Woolley, a Yeoman in Woodstreet-Compter, had arrested one Mr. Francis Simpson, upon an Execution; and did detain him Prisoner, although the said Mr. Simpson shewed unto them a Pass under the Hand and Seal of Sir Thomas Fairfax, General, dated the Four-and-twentieth Day of June 1646, declaring the said Mr. Simpson to be a Person who is to have the full Benefit of the Articles for Surrender of the Garison of Oxford;

It is Resolved, &c. That * Hawkes, one of the Serjeants of the Poultry-Compter, and * Woolley, one of the Yeomen of Woodstreet-Compter, be forthwith sent for, as Delinquents, by the Serjeant at Arms attending on this House, or his Deputy, for Arresting of Mr. Francis Simpson, who hath the Benefit of the Articles of Oxford.

Ordered, That the humble Petition of Benjamin Hyde, Servant to Edward Birkhead Esquire, Serjeant at Arms to the House of Commons, concerning his being arrested, notwithstanding his being the Serjeant's Servant, be referred to the Committee for Complaints.

Mr. Thorpe reported, from the free Conference, the Lords Sense upon the said Conference, in Writing.

The which was read, first by the Reporter, and then by the Clerk; and was in hæc verba; viz.

As to the Number of Three; my Lords do not conceive it a competent Number, the Houses having formerly put it into Six: Which they would not have done, if Three would have served.

I. That, having so long since sent the Ordinance to them, the Lords agreed to add their Three, with those named by them, as being the fairest Invitation to accord the Houses in the naming the Commissioners; especially there being no Exception against the Persons named by their Lordships: And this being the only Way (as they conceive) in such Cases, they hope, their Agreement of their Names will not otherwise be made use of, especially the Ordinance remaining with that House so long.

II. As to the Charge of having Seven; their Lordships think (so Justice be duly administred) the Cost is well bestowed: Yet, if the House of Commons think the Number of Seven too many, they may take the Four Persons named by the Lords only.

III. As to the Proviso; my Lords adhere, not to admit it; which doth put an Incapacity upon the Commissioners for being Assistants in the Lords House: Which though it be more than probable it will not be, yet they understand not the Inconvenience, if they were; the Great Seal having been, in former Times, by the Chancellors of England, or the Keepers thereof, residing in the Lords House, and all the Judges of the Realm assistant there: Whereby Justice hath not been obstructed, but furthered.

Nor can their Presence be wrested further than the Nature of Assistants are, having yielded to the Lessening of their Power in Justices of Peace, and Presentations: Wherefore my Lords desire the Dispatch of this Business; that, having yielded to the Persons named by them, as abovesaid, to the Limiting of their Powers (those named by them having no Exception against them), that no further Obstruction of the Seal may be: Wherein the Lords have acquitted themselves in Time and Matter.

The Question was put, That the Orders for disabling Members of either House to be Commissioners for the Custody of the Great Seal be vacated.

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Sir Martin Lumley, Tellers for the Noe: 56.
Sir Robert Pye, With the Noe,
Sir Arthur Hesilrig, Tellers for the Yea: 67.
Sir Michael Livesey, With the Yea,

So as the Question passed with the Affirmative.

Resolved, &c. That an Ordinance be brought in, for committing the Custody of the Great Seal of England to the same Four Members of this House, and to the same Two Members of the House of Peers, to whom it was formerly committed, until the First Day of March next.

Mr. Hill is appointed to bring in this Ordinance Tomorrow Morning.

A Message from the Lords, by Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath;

The Lords do agree to a Vote for Mr. Pierepoint; with an Addition: To which they desire your Concurrence. They have commanded us to bring you this Report from the Committee of the Admiralty, concerning Captain Batten: To which they desire your Concurrence:- An Ordinance for the Heralds: To which they desire your Concurrence. By reason of the approaching Solemnity of the Funeral, wherein their Attendance is necessarily required, the Lords have named a Committee of Twelve Lords, and desire you to name a proportionable Number, about the Matter in the Scotts Paper; to meet upon it To-morrow at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon. The Seal of the Marches of Wales, brought from Haberdashers-Hall by the Lord Edward Howard: The Lords do desire, it may be kept with the other Seals. They desire to put you in mind of the Lady Marchioness of Winchester's Petition: She is near her Time: And they desire she may have some Allowance: And do recommend unto you Mr. Mortimer, to attend the Committee of the Revenue.

The Amendments to the Vote for Mr. Pierepoint was read; and, upon the Question, assented unto.

The Report from the Committee of the Admiralty, concerning Captain Batten, was read: And

It is thereupon Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree with the Lords; and doth approve of Captain Batten to continue Vice-Admiral and Commander in Chief of the Fleet, in the Ship Leopard, for this Winter's Expedition.

Resolved, &c. That Captain Henry Bethell be especially recommended to the Committee of the Admiralty and Cinque-Ports, to be employed, in the Service of the Parliament, in one of the Ships to be set forth for the WinterGuard.

An Ordinance, sent from the Lords, for Making of Arthur Squib Esquire Clarencieux King at Arms, and William Ryley Esquire Norroy King at Arms, was this Day read the First and Second time.

And the Question being put, For concurring with the Lords, and passing the Ordinance;

The House was divided.

The Yeas went forth.

Mr. Bainton, Tellers for the Yea: 53.
Mr. Ashurst, With the Yea,
Lieut. Gen. Cromwell, Tellers for the Noe: 48.
Mr. Morley, With the Noe,

So that the Question passed with the Affirmative.

Resolved, &c. That this House doth nominate, appoint, and constitute, Edward Bishe Esquire, a Member of this House, Garter King at Arms; and doth order, That an Ordinance be, To-morrow, brought in, to that Purpose.

And Mr. Erle and Mr. Bond are appointed to bring in this Ordinance.

Ordered, That it be especially referred to the Committee for Heralds, to take speedy and effectual Care for regulating the Fees of that Office; and to make their Report thereof on this Day Fortnight.

Ordered, That the House do meet, in a Committee, To-morrow in the Afternoon, to take into further Consideration the Ordinance for Assessments for Maintenance of the Army.

Ordered, That the Papers, this Day delivered into the House from the Scotts Commissioners at Worcester-House, be read To-morrow Morning, the first Business, after Mr. Speaker comes to the Chair.

Answer returned by the same Messengers;

The House has considered their Lordships Message: And, as to the Amendment to the Vote concerning Mr. Pierepoint, the Report concerning Captain Batten, and the Ordinance for Appointing of Mr. Squib, and Mr. Ryley, to be Kings at Arms, they do agree: And, as to the rest, they will send Answer by Messengers of their own.