House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 3 March 1671

Veneris, 3 die Martii, 1670.

Prayers.

Grocers Company.

ORDERED, That the Bill concerning the Grocers company be read To-morrow Morning.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir George Reeve have the Leave of this House to go into the Country, for the Recovery of his Health.

Hemp and Flax planting.

Mr. Birch reports from the Committee to which the Bill to encourage the planting of Hemp and Flax was committed, that the Committee had made no further Alteration to the Bill, save only, had agreed, that the Bill should be made temporary, for Eleven Years: And a Clause, to that Purpose, was agreed at the Table.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill, with the former Amendments, and Clause agreed to, be ingrossed.

Employment of the Poor.

Sir John Birkenhead reports from the Committee to which the several Petitions of Saint Giles' in the Fields, Saint Martin's in the Fields, Saint Paul's Covent Garden, Whitechapel, and the rest of the Parishes within the Bill of Mortality, in the County of Middlesex, were committed,

1. That this Committee is of Opinion, That a Bill be brought in for Repeal of the Clauses of the Act, constituting the Corporation for setting the Poor on Work, in the Parishes within the Bill of Mortality, within the County of Middlesex:

2. That there be a Proviso, for excepting Saint Margaret's, Westminster, out of the said Bill:

3. That the Committee is not satisfied with the Account given in from the Governors of the said Corporation:

4. That this Committee conceives it best, that the said Governors be accountable to the Barons of his Majesty's Court of Exchequer.

Which Report being debated;

Resolved, &c. That it be referred to the former Committee, to consider of the Debates of the House, and of the Clauses in the former Act, for the raising of Monies upon the Parishes within the Bills of Mortality; and, upon the whole Matter, to prepare and bring in a Bill for regulating the Workhouses, and taking an Account of the Monies raised by virtue of the former Act, as they shall find necessary: And, for that Purpose, the Committee is revived; and to sit this Afternoon, in the Place formerly appointed.

Poor Laws.

Ordered, That the Committee formerly appointed to inspect the Laws concerning the Poor, be revived; and do sit To-morrow in the Afternoon: And all that shall come are to have Voices.

Privilege.

Information being given of a Breach of Privilege committed against Sir Bainham Throgmorton, by arresting Thomas Stevens, his menial Servant, and detaining him Prisoner in the Poultry Compter, at the Suit of one William Yard;

Ordered, That it be referred to Mr. Speaker, to examine the Matter, to give Order for Discharge of the said Thomas Stevens, if he find Cause.

Ditto.

Ordered, That these Members following be added to the Committee to which the Petition of Sir John Prettyman is committed; viz. Sir Edm. Pooley, Col. Edw. Phillipps, Mr. Mallet, Mr. Mervill, Sir Bain. Throgmorton.

Supply Bill; foreign Commodities.

The Bill of additional Impositions upon foreign Commodities, being opened by Mr. Speaker, and debated;

Resolved, &c. That the said Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House, upon the Debate; and that the House resolve into a Committee thereupon To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock.

A Message from the the Lords, by Sir William Child and Sir Tho. Estcourt;

Supply Bill; Subsidies.

Growth of Popery.

Mr. Speaker, We are commanded to acquaint you, that the Lords have agreed with this House for leaving out of that Proviso, in their Amendment to the Bill of Subsidies, concerning Distresses to be made in their Lordships Houses: And likewise, that their Lordships desired a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Address to be made to his Majesty, for preventing the Growth of Popery.

The Messengers being called in, Mr. Speaker acquainted them, that the House agreed to a present Conference.

Ordered, That Mr. Attorney General, Sir Trevor Williams, Sir Thomas Meeres, Mr. Vaughan, Sir John Earnely, Sir Thomas Dolman, Mr. Coleman, Sir John Coventry, Mr. Cheney, Sir Rich. Temple, Mr. Whorwood, be appointed to manage the said Conference.

Conference on Bill of Subsidy.

Ordered, That the Reasons, Yesterday deliverd at the Conference, upon the Lords Amendments, by way of Proviso to the Bill of Subsidy, concerning Distresses to be made in the Lords Houses, be entered in the Journal of this House.

Which are as followeth; viz.

I. It is a Privilege demanded against the King, and against the Execution, for his Duty; which ought not to be clogged with any unnecessary Circumstances, it being itself a Non omittas propter aliquam libertatem.

IIly, The Privilege demanded is not due to their Lordships, in point of Right; nor can it be insisted upon, as a Point of Honour.

1st, Because there is as much Reverence paid to their Lordships Privileges in this Bill, as ever was seen in any Bill of Supply.

1st, There is a Proviso, that the Taxes to be collected for the Personal Estates and Offices of the Peers, shall be collected by a Collector of their own.

2ly, The Amendment is agreed to, "that nothing herein contained shall be drawn into Example, to the Prejudice of the ancient Rights belonging to Peers; so no Danger of any ancient Right.

3ly, Their Lordships are certainly the best Judges of their own Honour: But, in the Bill of the Royal Aid, there is the very same Clause, in Syllables, as in this Bill; yet their Lordships did not then think fit to add such a Qualification to that Clause then.

4ly, 'Tis true, the Commissioners were named in that Act: But that can make no Difference in the Case, unless their Lordships be afraid where the Nomination is trusted to the King.

5ly, It were a Dishonour to their Lordships to have this Clause stand in the Bill; for it doth not concern the Tax upon personal Estates or Offices, but supposes a Lord taxed for his Land, and not a Hoof left upon the Land to destrain; and that, after all this, a Lord barricados up his House, to resist a Distress: Is it fit to suppose such a Case? Or should it be treated with Ceremony, when it happens?

6ly, If a Lord be returned into the Exchequer, the meanest Bailiff of the Sheriff may break open the House of a Peer, without more Ceremony: Why should a Commissioner be appointed to attend in This Case, unless all Exchequer Process be intended to be barred by this Clause too; and then, that is a further Exception?

7ly, No Distress can be upon a Peer, without a Warrant under the Hands of Two Commissioners, which is Caution enough.

IIIly, The Lords have no Privilege above the Commons, as to Execution against their Estates; and therefore we hope this Occasion shall not be taken to create Precedents for new Privileges, in Payment of Money.

IVly, It would discourage Persons to be Commissioners, if they must be Officers to attend the Distress; and no Man will be willing to serve.

Vly, The Act of Printing leaveth the Lords and Commons as to the Privilege of Houses; and no Bill of Money did ever distinguish them.

VIly, The whole Duty may be avoided; for, in Truth, there lies no Obligation upon any Commissioner to go with any Officer; and so the Matter may be wholly neglected.

VIIly, If a Distress be wrongful, why should a Lord have a better Man to bring his Action against, than a Commoner? And who will ever go to subject himself to the Action of a Peer, if he be displeased with the Distress?

Conference on Growth of Popery.

Mr. Attorney General reports the Conference had with the Lords, upon the Address, sent up to the Lords, to be made to his Majesty, for preventing the Growth of Popery; and that their Lordships were not satisfied, as to Matter of Fact, in several Particulars therein; viz.

In the Second Cause of the Growth of Popery, concerning Chapels, and Places used for saying Mass, in the great Towns, and many other Parts of this Kingdom, besides those in Ambassadors Houses, &c.

In the Third Cause of the Growth of Popery, concerning Fraternities, or Convents of English Popish Priests and Jesuits at Saint James's, and at the Combe in Herefordshire, and in other Parts of the Kingdom, &c.

In the Tenth Cause of the Growth of Popery concerning Peter Talbot's exercising his Function of Archbishop of Dublin.

Resolved, &c. That it be referred to the Committee that prepared and brought in the aforesaid Address, and the Committee to whom the Bill for preventing the Growth of Popery is committed, (who are both joined together) to consider of the said Address; and further to examine those Matters of Fact wherein their Lordships are not satisfied; and to report their Opinions therein to the House: And the said Committee are therefore revived, to sit this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber: And have Power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.