House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 21 May 1675

Veneris, 21 die Maii, 1675.

Prayers.

Frederick Moers de Blewenstein did this Day take the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, in order to his Naturalization; and brought in a Certificate of his having received the Sacrament: And his Name being twice read;

Ordered, That the Name of Frederick Moers de Blewensteine be inserted in the Bill of Naturalization.

Privilege.

Complaint being made of a Breach of Privilege, committed by John Martin and Francis Billingsley, in serving the Agents and Servants of Sir John Stonehowse, a Member of this House, with an Injunction, out of Chancery, to restrain the Felling and Carrying away of Wood;

Ordered, That it be referred to the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to examine the Matter; and to report the State of it, with their Opinions therein, to the House.

Insolvent Debtors.

Ordered, That the Committee, to which the Bill for Relief of poor Prisoners, was committed, be revived; and do sit on Wednesday next, in the Place formerly appointed.

Privilege- Lords Jurisdiction in the Case of Mr. Onslowe.

Resolved, &c. That the House will, on Thursday Morning next, proceed in the Consideration of that Part of the Lords Answer to the Message of this House, in the Case of Mr. Onslowe, which relates to Appeals from inferior Courts.

Conference desired with Lords.

Ordered, That Sir Trevor Williams do go up to the Lords, to desire a Conference with the Lords, upon the Privileges of this House, contained in the Lords Answer to the Message of this House, in the Case of Mr. Onslow.

Papists not to sit in Parliament.

The Bill for hindering Papists to sit in either House of Parliament, was read the Second time.

Resolved, &c. That this Bill be committed to Mr. Eyres, Sir John Birkenhead, Mr. Garraway, Sir Nich. Carew, Mr. Crouch, Sir Tho. Littleton, Sir John Hotham, Sir Tho. Lee, Sir Leoline Jenkins, Sir Anth. Irby, Sir John Talbott, Mr. Hobby, Sir Cha. Wheeler, Sir John Moreton, Sir Fr. Drake, Mr. Serjeant Maynard, Mr. Vaughan, Mr. Stockdale, Lord O Bryan, Mr. Sacheverall, Sir Eliab Harvey, Sir Ja. Smith, Sir Trevor Williams, Sir Edw. Masters, Mr. Sawyer, Mr. Powle, Colonel Birch, Mr. Swinfen, Sir John Newtoun, Sir John Trever, Mr. Newport, Mr. Hopkins, Sir John Dawney, Sir Wm. Killigrew, Mr. Daniell, Mr. Bartie, Mr. Waller, Mr. Serjeant Rigby, Sir John Barnaby, Sir Robert Southwell, Sir Baynham Throgmorton, Colonel Whitley, Colonel Titus, Mr. Hall, Sir John Mallett, Mr. Mallett: And all that shall come are to have Voices: And they are to meet on Wednesday next, at Two of the Clock in the Exchequer Chamber: And to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Deane Forest.

Ordered That Sir Wm. Bassett, Mr. Herbert, Sir John Talbott, Mr. Daniell, Sir John Burlace, Mr. Sawyer, Sir John Ernley, Mr. Thynn, Sir Gilbert Talbott, Sir Gilb. Gerrard, Mr. Bartie, Mr. Duncombe, Sir Rich. Wiseman, Mr. Pitt, Sir Ralph Bancks, Colonel Fox, Sir Fra. Drake, Sir Edw. Hungerford, Sir Jos. Tredenham, Sir Edw. Harley, Mr. Wm. Harbord, Sir John Mallett, Sir Cha. Wheeler, Mr. Cooke, Sir Wm. Coventry, Mr. Newport, Sir Wm. Bassett, Sir John Morton, be added to the Committee, to which the Bill for the Preservation of the Wood in the Forest of Deane, was committed.

Privilege-Lords Jurisdiction in the Case of Mr. Onslowe.

Sir Thomas Lee reports from the Committee appointed to draw up a Clause for further Instruction to the Managers of the Conference with the Lords upon the Privileges of this House, contained in the Lords Answer to the Message of this House, in the Case of Mr. Onslowe, a Clause agreed by the Committee: Which he read, with the Coherence, in his Place; and afterwards, delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: And the same being twice read, and agreed to, is as followeth; viz.

But, before we proceed any further in this Conference, we are commanded to acquaint your Lordships, that we are to insist upon the Matter of Privilege only; the House of Commons not having yet fully debated that Part of your Lordships Message, which concerns receiving and determining Appeals from inferior Courts, in Cases where Privilege of the Members of the House of Commons is not immediately concerned.

Sir Trever Williams reports from the Lords, that he had attended, and desired a Conference with the Lords, on the Privileges of this House, contained in the Lords Answer to the Message of this House, in the Case of Mr. Onslowe; and that the Lords will return Answer by Messengers of their own.

Conference concerning Warrant for apprehending Shirley.

Mr. Powle reports from the Conference had with the Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the former Conference, upon the Lords Message concerning the Warrant for apprehending Dr. Shirley, that the Lords had returned an Answer to the Reasons of this House delivered at the former Conference; and are as followeth; viz.

The Lords have appointed this Conference, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference; and have commanded us to give these Answers to the Reasons, and other Matters, then delivered by the House of Commons.

To the First Reason, the Lords conceive, that the most natural Way of being informed, is by way of Question; and, seeing a Paper here, which did reflect upon the Privileges of the Lords House, their Lordships would not proceed upon it till they were assured it was owned by the House of Commons: But the Lords had no Occasion at that time, nor do they now think fit, to enter into the Debate of the House of Commons being, or not being, proper Judges, in the Case concerning the Privilege of a Member of that House; their Lordships necessary Consideration, upon Sight of that Paper, being only how far the House of Commons ordering, if that Paper were theirs, the Apprehension of Dr. Shirley, for prosecuting his Appeal before the Lords, did intrench upon their Lordships both Privilege, and undoubted Rights of Judicature, in the Consequence of it, excepting all the Members of both Houses from the Judicature of this the highest Court of the Kingdom; which would cause a Failure of that supreme Justice not administrable in any other Court; and which their Lordships will never admit.

As to the Second Reason, the Lords answer, That they do not apprehend, how the Matter of this Message is any Reflection upon the Speaker of the House of Commons.

To the Third Reason, The Lords cannot imagine, how it can be apprehended, in the least, to reflect upon the House of Commons, for the House of Peers, upon a Paper produced unto their Lordships, in Form of a Warrant of that House, whereof Doubt was made among the Lords, whether any such thing had been ordered by that House, to inquire of the Commons, whether such Warrant was ordered there or no; and, without such Liberty used by the Lords, it will be very hard for their Lordships to be so rightly informed, as to preserve a good Correspondence between the Two Houses, which their Lordships shall endeavour, or to know when Warrants, in the Name of that House, are true or pretended: And it is so ungrounded an Apprehension, that their Lordships intended any Reflection in asking that Question, and not taking notice, in their Message, of the Complaint of the House of Commons owning that Warrant, that the Lords had sent their Message, concerning that Paper to the House of Commons, before the Lords had received the said Commons Complaint.

But their Lordships have great Cause to except against the unjust and strained Reflection of that House upon their Lordships, in asserting, that the Question in the Lords Message, could not be for Information, as we affirm, but tending to interrupt the mutual Correspondence between the Two Houses; which we deny, and had not the least thought of.

The Lords have further commanded us to say, That they doubt not, when the House of Commons have received what we have delivered at this Conference, they will be sensible of their Error, in calling our Message strange, unusual, or unparliamentary; though we cannot but take notice, that their Answer to our Message, that they would consider of it, was the first of that kind that we can find to have come from that House.

The Question being put, Whether the House be satisfied with the Reasons delivered by the Lords at the last Conference;

It passed in the Negative.

Resolved, &c. That a free Conference be desired with the Lords, upon the Matter delivered at the last Conference: And that the former Managers do attend and manage the free Conference: And that these Members following be added; Sir Robert Howard, Sir Robert Carr, Sir Wm. Coventry, Mr. Secretary Coventry, Mr. Garraway, Mr. Waller, Sir Edw. Deering, Mr. Weld, Mr. Secretary Williamson, Mr. Stockdale.

Bills sent up to Lords.

Ordered, That Sir John Trever do go up to the Lords with these Bills; one intituled, An Act to preserve and regulate the Fishing in several Rivers of this Kingdom; the other, intituled, An Act for enabling Trustees to sell Lands for Payment of the Debts of Alexander Davyes deceased.

Duke of Lauderdale.

Resolved, &c. That the adjourned Debate, touching his Majesty's Answer to the Address of this House concerning the Duke of Lauderdale, which was ordered to be taken up this Day, be further adjourned to this Day Sevennight.

Solemnization of 29th May.

Resolved, &c. That this House will solemnize the Nine-and-twentieth Day of this Instant May, being the Day af his Majesty's Birth and happy Restoration, in St. Margarett's Church Westminster; and will meet first in the House for that Purpose.

And then the House adjourned till Wednesday Morning, Eight of the Clock.