House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 4 June 1675

Veneris, 4 die Junii, 1675.

Prayers.

Repairing Highways.

A BILL for enlarging and repairing the common Highways, was read the Second time. And several Matters being moved, and debated;

Resolved, &c. That the Bill be committed, upon the Debates of the House, to Sir Lanc. Lake, Sir Anth. Irby, Sir Robert Holmes, Sir Wm. Doyley, Sir Jeoff. Shackerley, Sir Thom. Stringer, Colonel Sands, Sir Courtney Poole, Mr. Westfaling, Mr. Serjeant Maynard, Sir John Knight, Mr. Crouch, Sir Edw. Deering, Sir Eliab Harvey, Sir John Covert, Sir Tho. Allen, Sir Hen. Ford, Sir Tho. Williams, Sir John Elwayes, Sir Trever Williams, Sir John Morton, Sir Robert Barnham, Sir Edw. Masters, Mr. Price, Colonel Strangwayes, Colonel Birch, Sir Tho. Clergis, Sir Adam Browne, Mr. Serjeant Rigby, Sir Cha. Harbord, Sir John Holland, Mr. Harbord, Lord Angier, Mr. Swinfen, Mr. Clerke, Mr. Cholmondly, Mr. Spry, Mr. Roberts, Sir Fr. Russell, Sir Geo. Reeve, Sir Robert Holt, Sir Wm. Coventry, Sir John Robinson, Sir John Talbott, Sir John Pettus, Sir Ni. Slaning, Sir John Mallett, Sir John Brampston, Mr. Sacheverell, Sir Cha. Wheeler, Colonel Werden, Sir Sam. Bernerdiston, Mr. Robert Wright, Mr. Prideaux, Colonel Strode, Sir Tho. Dolman, Sir Winston Churchill, Mr. Cheney, Sir John Stapeley, Sir Fra. Drake, Sir John Werden: And all that come are to have Voices: And they are to meet on Monday next, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Exchequer Chamber: And to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Mr. Speaker thanked.

Ordered, That the Thanks of the House be returned to Mr. Speaker, for causing Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, formerly committed, by Order of this House, to the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, for a Breach of Privilege, to be seized, and taken into Custody, in Westminster Hall, for his Breach of Privilege.

Apprehension of Persons escaped.

The House being informed, That Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serj. Peck, and Mr. Charles Porter, who were ordered to be taken into the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, are now in Westminster Hall;

Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms now attending this House do go with his Mace into Westminster Hall, and do execute the Order of this House, and the Warrant of Mr. Speaker thereupon, for seizing and bringing in Custody Mr. Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, and Mr. Charles Porter, for their Breach of the Privilege of this House.

The Serjeant returning, gave an Account, That he had executed the Order of this House, and Mr. Speaker's Warrant thereupon; and had brought the said Mr. Serjeant Peck, Sir John Churchill, and Mr. Charles Porter, in Custody, into the Speaker's Chamber.

The Question being put, That Sir John Churchill be sent to the Tower, for his Breach of Privilege, and Contempt of the Authority of this House;

The House divided.

The Yeas go forth.

And so it was resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That Mr. Serjeant Peck, for his Breach of Privilege and Contempt of the Authority of this House, be sent to the Tower.

Ordered, That Mr. Serjeant Pemberton be sent to the Tower, for his Breach of Privilege, and Contempt of the Authority of this House.

Ordered, That Mr. Charles Porter be sent to the Tower, for his Breach of Privilege, and Contempt of the Authority of this House.

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Lieutenant of the Tower, to take into his Custody the Bodies of Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serjeant Peck, Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Charles Porter, for their Offence in breaking the Privileges, and contemning the Authority of this House; there to remain in safe Custody during the Pleasure of this House.

Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Serjeant at Arms now attending this House, to convey Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serjeant Peck, Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, and Mr. Cha. Porter to the Tower, there to be kept in safe Custody during the Pleasure of this House, for their Offence in breaking the Privileges, and contemning the Authority of this House.

Proceedings in Lords Journals on Ouse Navigation.

Mr. Hampden reports from the Committee appointed to peruse the Lords Journals; and to see what Proceedings there were there concerning the making the River Ouse in the County of Bedford navigable, A Petition, exhibited by the Earl of Bullenbrook, on Behalf of himself and others; and an Order of the Lords House, dated the Twenty-eighth Day of May last: Which he read; and the Petition relating to an Act of Parliament, for making the River Ouse navigable;

Resolved, &c. That it be referred to the former Committee, to inspect the Act of Parliament; and to examine what Proceedings there hath been thereupon, or concerning the making the said River navigable; and to state the whole Matter, with their Opinions, to the House.

Post Meridiem.

Serjeant at Arms to be protected.

ORDERED, That Mr. Speaker do issue out a Warrant to John Topham Esquire, Serjeant at Arms now attending this House, to authorize and require him, that, if any Person or Persons shall attempt or go about to arrest, imprison, or detain him from executing his Office, or from his Attendance upon this House, to apprehend such Persons, and bring them in Custody, to answer their Breach of Privilege; and to require and authorize all Persons to be aiding and assisting to him therein.

Resolved, &c. That John Topham Esquire, Serjeant at Arms now attending this House, shall have the Privilege of this House.

Clitheroe Election.

Sir Thomas Meres reports from the Committee of Elections and Privileges, that Sir Ralph Ashton's Petition came in within Fourteen Days: And that the Committee were of Opinion it came regularly.

Ordered, That the Committee do proceed upon the Petition, to examine the Matter touching the Election for Clitheroe, between Sir Ralph Ashton, and Sir Thomas Stringer; and report the state of the Case, with their Opinions, to the House.

Conference desired with Lords.

Resolved, That Sir Henry Capell do go up to the Lords, to desire a Conference upon the Matters delivered at the last Conference.

Conference on Commitment of Counsel.

Sir Thomas Lee reports from the Committee, the Reasons agreed to be offered at the Conference to be had with the Lords, upon the Matters delivered at the last Conference: Which were twice read; and, with some Amendments made at the Table, severally agreed; and are as followeth; viz.

YOUR Lordships having desired the last Conference, upon Matters of high Importance, concerning the Dignity of the King, and the Safety of the Government; the Commons did not expect to hear from your Lordships at that Conference, Things so contrary to, and inconsistent with, the Matter upon which the said Conference was desired, as were then delivered by your Lordships.

It was much below the Expectation of the Commons, that, after a Representation in your Lordships Message of Matters of so high Importance, the Particular upon which the Conference was grounded, should be only the Commitment of Four Lawyers to the Custody of their own Serjeant at Arms, for a manifest Violation of the Privileges of their House.

But the Commons were much more surprized, when your Lordships had introduced the Conference, with an Assurance it was in order to a good Correspondency between the Two Houses, that your Lordships should immediately assume a Power to judge the Order of the House of Commons, for the Imprisonment of Mr. Serj. Peck, Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serj. Pemberton, and Mr. Charles Porter, to be illegal and arbitrary, and the Execution thereof a great Indignity to the King's Majesty, with many other high Reflections upon the House of Commons, throughout the whole Conference; whereby your Lordships hath condemned the whole House of Commons as criminal: Which is without Precedent, or Example, or any Ground of Reason so to do.

'Tis not against the King's Dignity for the House of Commons to punish by Imprisonment a Commoner, that is guilty of violating their Privileges, that being according to the known Laws and Custom of Parliament, and the Right of their Privileges, declared by the King's Royal Predecessors in former Parliaments; and by Himself in this.

But your Lordships claiming to be the supreme Court, and that his Majesty is highest in his Royal Estate in the Court of Judicature there, is a Diminution of the Dignity of the King; who is highest in his Royal Estate, in full Parliament; and is derogatory to the Authority of the whole Parliament, by appropriating it to yourselves.

The Commons did not infringe any Privileges of the House of Peers, but only defend and maintain their own: On the other Side, your Lordships do highly intrench upon the Rights and Privileges of the House of Commons, denying them to be a Court, or to have any Authority or Power of Judicature; which, if admitted, will leave them without any Authority or Power to preserve themselves.

As to what your Lordships call a transcendent Invasion of the Rights and Liberty of the Subject, and against Magna Charta, the Petition of Right, and many other Laws; the House of Commons presume, that your Lordships know, that neither the Great Charter, the Petition of Right, nor any other Laws, do take away the Law and Custom of Parliament, or of either House of Parliament; or else your Lordships have much forgotten the Great Charter, and those other Laws, in the several Judgments your Lordships have passed upon the King's Subjects, in Cases of Privilege.

But the Commons cannot find, by Magna Charta, or by any other Law or ancient Custom of Parliament, that your Lordships have any Jurisdiction, in Cases of Appeal from Courts of Equity.

We are further commanded to acquaint you, that the Enlargement of the said Persons imprisoned by Order of the House of Commons, by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod; and the Prohibition, with Threats to all Officers and other Persons whatsoever, not to receive or detain them, is an apparent Breach of the Rights and Privileges of the House of Commons: And they have therefore caused them to be retaken into the Custody of the Serjeant at Arms, and hath committed them to the Tower.

As to the Parliament Roll of 1st Hen. IV. caused to be read by your Lordships at the last Conference, but not applied, the Commons apprehend it doth not concern the Case in Question; for that this Record was made upon Occasion of Judgments given by the Lords, to depose and imprison their lawful King; to which the Commons were unwilling to be made Parties: And therefore the Commons conceive it will not be for the Honour of your Lordships, to make further Use of that Record.

But we are commanded to read to your Lordships the Parliament Roll of the 4th of Edward the IIId, N 6; which if your Lordships please to consider, they doubt not but your Lordships will find Occasion to apply it to the present Purpose.

Lords Answer as to Conference.

Sir Hen. Capell reports, That he had attended the Lords, to desire a Conference: And that the Lords made Answer, That they would return Answer by Messengers of their own.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.