Henry VIII: November 1528, 1-8

Pages 2120-2134

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1875.

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November 1528

1 Nov.
R. O.
St. P. VII. 102.
After many inconveniences Campeggio has arrived in England, and has been honorably treated, so far as his disease would allow him. As, in consequence of his illness, he could not visit the King, I have frequently called to see him; and after his first audience his Majesty and I have been often with him. A courier has been sent to you with letters. You shall visit his Holiness, and state the course taken by the King in this matter,—your desire to have the cause referred to Campeggio and Wolsey,—the commission, and the difficulties found in obtaining it, &c.
You shall further say that his Holiness was contented to grant to the Legate a commission for his own instruction and the King's counsellors', not to be used in the process, at which the King was greatly dissatisfied; but Wolsey now grieves to say, after so many indications of candor and kindness, Campeggio has taken a course entirely different from his instructions, and attempts to dissuade the King and Queen from the divorce until he has made a report to the Pope of what he has seen and heard here. What is worse, although I am his colleague, he will not entrust me with his commission; so that the King, who had hitherto assured his Privy Council that the Pope would not fail to do what he could in his cause, now finds himself deceived, and can get no information about the commission; whilst those who asserted that nothing but causes for delay would be invented are right in their judgment.
The King feels his honor touched by this, especially considering what a benefactor he has been to the Church. I cannot reflect upon it, and close my eyes, for I see ruin, infamy, and subversion of the whole dignity and estimation of the See Apostolic if this course be persisted in. You see in what dangerous times we are. If the Pope will consider the gravity of this cause, and how much the safety of the nation depends upon it, he will see that the course he now pursues will drive the King to adopt those remedies which are injurious to the Pope, and are frequently instilled into the King's mind. (fn. 1) Without the Pope's compliance I cannot bear up against the storm; and as often as I reflect on the conduct of his Holiness, I cannot but fear lest the common enemy of souls, seeing the King's determination, inspires the Pope with his present fears and reluctance, which will alienate all the faith and devotion towards the See Apostolic. The sparks of that opposition here, which have been extinguished with such care and vigilance, will blaze forth, to the utmost danger of all here and elsewhere.
It is useless for Campeggio to think of reviving the marriage. If he did, it would lead to worse consequences. Let him, therefore, proceed to sentence. Prostrate at the feet of his Holiness, I most urgently beg of him to set aside all delays. If the divorce be carried, we may expect an alliance between the kings of England and France and the Emperor, who can take no offence at the King's honorable proceedings.
Gives advice respecting the affairs of Italy, which are not so Imperial as the Pope supposes, nor such as to induce him to enter into the league proposed by the Emperor through the Friar General. His Holiness must take care not to give offence to the kings of France and England. If he wishes to preserve the See Apostolic and appease the evils of Christendom, he must look to those potentates who will encourage his efforts. This will be the best way of opposing the designs of the duke of Ferrara; and the King will support him in all ways if he will not oppose his cause. The Emperor, in reply to propositions submitted to him by Silvester Darius in my name, has made so favorable an answer that, with the consent of the king of France, a happy result may be expected. If the Pope is favorable to the King's cause, he is resolved that the glory of it shall be the Pope's; by which he may become the mediator of a most binding alliance between the Pope, the Emperor, and the kings of France and England, and the security of the Church will be preserved.
You shall ask the Pope to send to me and Campeggio jointly a suitable commission, and another to the same effect to him alone, for concluding what is requisite; so that when the King's divorce is finished, I, or he alone, may go to the place appointed for the diet, and settle the terms of universal peace; only he must not protract the time by these vain delays; for, should anything untoward occur, the blame will be ascribed to himself alone. If no attention be paid to my loyalty, words, advice, and judgment, whatever may be the result, the world will be conscious that this King has never failed in his obedience to the Holy See, and that I have omitted no part of my duty.
This only I will add, in conclusion, that if the Pope wishes to preserve his honor, to show his gratitude and his sincerity, to preserve the dignity of the Church and the safety of this kingdom, now is the time. Let him, then, expressly command Campeggio to proceed to sentence, and enjoin him to deliver into the King's hands or mine the decretal commission. You shall assure him it shall not be perused by any one, except by a few privy councillors, whose life will depend upon their fidelity.
No labour will be spared on my part to induce the Queen to enter a nunnery, although much must not be expected. I request that a sufficient commission and authority be sent to Campeggio and me jointly and severally, with the necessary clauses, that, on the Queen's entering a nunnery, the King may marry again, and the offspring of both marriages be legitimate. Take S. Quatuor's advice on this point,—that if the Queen can be induced to comply, she be not compelled to assume the monastic habit, or bound by any other vows than that of chastity; for as she is very charitable and has large possessions, she could do more good in this way than the other. The King trusts they will exert themselves in this matter.
The King has offered me the see of Winchester; but as I have spent a large sum of money in my promotion to Durham and upon my colleges, I have delayed expediting this matter till I know what sum I shall have to pay for holding Winchester in commendam with York and St. Alban's. Begs them to see what can be done. If his request is complied with, the Holy See will be enriched by the bulls required for Durham; but if he retains Durham it will only have the bulls for Winchester. (fn. 2) London, 1 Nov. 1528. Signed.
Lat., in Vannes' hand. Add. Endd.
1 Nov.
Theiner, p. 574.
Wolsey has resolved to despatch this courier, who will depart tomorrow. Today he sent for my secretary, and showed him a letter of 20 Oct., from the king of France to the bishop of Bayonne, his ambassador here, proving that Wolsey, in the name of his King, has used his influence with the French king for the restitution of Ravenna and Cervia. Francis has no doubt the Venetians are willing to act reasonably, and has given particular charge to the bailli of Rouen, whom he is sending to the Pope, to speak authoritatively to the Signory. Wolsey sent the letter by his secretary for me to read. Francis is favorable to the universal peace, provided he can accept it with the advice and consent of this King and the cardinal of York, who have some hope from Spain with respect to this negotiation, and who believe it cannot be accomplished except here, or in some place where it may be conducted from hence. They desire a commission from the Pope to Wolsey and myself, and another to myself separately, to negotiate this peace. This King will have to be the mediator between the two parties. I write all this at Wolsey's request. They have given instructions to the "cavalier" (Casale), their ambassador, to speak on this subject [to the Pope], and desire a speedy and resolute answer.
From the report of the Queen's counsellors I can gather no firm hope that the Queen will take upon her the profession of religion, but I do not utterly despair. In case it should come to this, the King would wish to be sure of having a dispensation or an indisputable licence from the Pope to proceed to a second marriage. Although as yet we have no hope that this will be the case, they wish to have this matter settled beforehand; nor will they on this account cease to insist on the trial. Let me know the Pope's pleasure.
This cardinal (Wolsey) has a grant from the King of the church of Winchester, but has resolved not to accept it until he learns from Rome whether he will be allowed to hold it at only a small expence, because its value is no greater than that of Durham, that is, 300l. (libre di queste).
It is true that it is nearer here, and in the centre of the kingdom, but he would prefer it to the one he now has, provided he be not put to too great expence. As it is not long since he paid for the bishopric of Durham, and as he deserves well of the Pope and the Holy See, which, owing to his vigilance and solicitude, still retains its rank and dignity here and elsewhere, I pray you urge the Pope to content him in this matter, and to let his agents know that I have written warmly in his behalf. London, 1 Nov. 1528.
1 Nov.
Le Grand, III.
I have taken no small pains to speak with the Legate again, who has given me to understand that he has been persuaded to await the arrival of Montpezat before seeing me. I have pressed him so far that at last I have compelled him to save himself in the rampart of the said arrival, after he had exhausted all evasions to my remonstrances, both good and bad, hard and gracious. For these difficulties I think I am partly indebted to my lord of Bath, to whom I found it perfectly useless to go from one end of the town to the other to make suit about this affair; I being a bishop like himself, and, although of not so great a bishopric, ambassador of the king of France. God be praised, I have done nothing that he does not think quite due to himself, and perhaps more. Moreover, I still expect that I shall have money [only] when they think proper, and I assure you I bite the end of my fingers to be obliged to have so much patience. It would be tiresome to tell you all our disputes about it. I ought to return tomorrow or Tuesday; for yesterday evening at my audience Wolsey did not wish me to depart (?) (que depeschasse) with so cold a countenance as I had on leaving him, and desired me to wait till he had made answer of this matter, and of all others, of which I should make him a memorandum. This I did that night, and this morning I sent early to salute him, but I expect that today all the souls in Paradise, and tomorrow all those in Purgatory, will come to his assistance, so that on the days following he may be able to get rid of some business of his master; I have, therefore, set myself to pen you a little despatch about this and other matters. I assure you the Legate will have to do this time with the most impudent beggar that ever carried a wallet. I hope you will take care that before it is time to begin again, another will come to do as much.
I have reported to you at length the Emperor's reply, which arrived, or perhaps was dated, 13th ult., in the long letter (legende) the Legate commanded me to write in answer to yours of the 20th. The purport of it is, that if the king of England will first make peace with him, so that he may have honorable cause to trust him, he will afterwards do marvels. Wolsey thinks it would not be bad if the peace were made on condition that it should not be valid if the Emperor do not pass articles of peace with you such as he shall have approved beforehand. Wolsey and the Council also think that if the overture of Salviati appear favorable it might be followed, though they prefer the other way.
The divorce is at present in this state. After the Queen's answer to the Cardinals, of which I told you, and some remonstrances which they may have made to her on the part of the Pope to enter into religion, it was found that she was determined to stick to her opinion. She has been given the choice of the whole counsel of England, that is, of my lords of Canterbury, Bath, Rochester, Ely, Exeter, and the Cordelier (Standish), the dean of the chapel, and others, with liberty to call an advocate from Flanders, a procureur and a counsellor, but she is not to be at liberty to summon any from Spain, on the ground that they are at war with Spain. Already a safeconduct has been sent into Flanders for the said counsellor and advocate. This is the way the matter stands, but it must be kept perfectly quiet. Rochester and London, I understand, are of the Queen's opinion, and also the dean of the Chapel; but I think they will lose their cause, for I hold the same opinion as when I wrote last. All things considered, I hold that even if all the Cardinals had, both in the past time and the present, approved the marriage, that they could not have [made it valid], it being proved, as they say it is, that the late King (fn. 3) and she have lain together, for God has long ago himself passed sentence on it. (fn. 4)
I make no answer to your letters of the 26th ult., except that I will make the best use I can of the breaking off of Montpezat's mission, of which I wish I had never said a word in England. London, All Saints' Day.
Fr. Add.
1 Nov.
Vit. B. X. 127.
B. M.
Went to his brother Gregory, who had gone to Bologna to recover his health. When Tadeus arrived with Wolsey's letters, went to Rome in his brother's stead to perform his commission. On the day of his arrival, went to the Pope, and gave him the King's and Wolsey's letters. He expressed his pleasure at their kindness, but said that it did not serve him against the obstinacy of the Venetians. Told him that himself and Gardiner had used every means of persuading the Venetians, except declaring war, and that the King and Wolsey would never rest until the matter was settled. As to Wolsey's requests, showed his Holiness the integrity of his intentions toward the Church, the necessity of the reformation of English monasteries (of which when in England I had often written to him, and about which Sir Gregory had had conference with the King and Wolsey), and the suitableness of the present time, when a legate had gone to England, that Wolsey might not be suspected of acting for his own advantage.
Showed him the instructions of Gardiner, which he read through, to the parts relating to public and private matters. Saw that he was only persuaded of the advantage of the erection of the cathedrals, and the reformation of the monasteries, but he thought the desired indulgence for the King of five days "pro qualibet ..." would bring both indulgences and the place where they were granted into contempt. He considered for some time the alleged necessity of suppressing monasteries of any Order. Is sure the matter will be managed with dexterity. Warned him of the danger of adhering to the Emperor, alleging the reasons Wolsey mentions.
He answered that Wolsey's advice always pleased him, and he knows that now he must be on his guard against the Imperialists, but the conduct of the Venetians moves him more than anything else, and he would use the assistance of any one, except the Devil, to avenge their injury. He wishes, first, to have our assistance, and, if that is not successful, the aid of others who are more capable of recovering the cities. Advised him not to ruin everything on account of one injury, and said that letters had already been sent to the kings of England and France and to Wolsey to urge them to see to this.
Will write to Vannes about the negociations with Andrea Doria. Their trouble is wasted now that Savona is lost. Gave the letters to card. S. Quatuor, who will do all he can for the King.
Doria sent letters from the General who has just been created cardinal (Quignones), saying that he had arrived at Rosas, and would soon be at Rome, bringing many commissions from the Emperor, by which he hoped to draw the Pope to his side, the liberation of the cardinals who are hostages, and the restitution of Ostia and Civita Vecchia, which is necessary if the Pope wishes to reside in Rome. Rome, 30 Oct. 1528.
The Pope has proposed to the Consistory the matter of the cathedrals, praising Wolsey. The Cardinals were of opinion that power should be given to Wolsey, and everything confirmed by a Consistory. A minute has been drawn up for dissolving the monasteries, and for the union of the two colleges. Rome, 1 Nov. 1528. Signed.
Lat., pp. 6. Address pasted on.
Vit. B. X. 123.
B. M.
2. Copy of the above letter, incomplete.
Lat., pp. 5. Headed and endd.
1 Nov.
R. O.
On the 24 Oct., Sir Wm. Bulmer, being sore diseased, departed to his own house. Believes he is in great danger. As Bulmer wishes to be discharged of his office in the North, wishes to know what is to be done with Wolsey's castle of Norham, for the garrison have left. Sheriffhutton, All Hallow Day.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: My lord Legate's grace. Endd.
2 Nov.
R. O.
Rym. XIV. 270.
Bull of Clement VII., granting to cardinal Wolsey the faculty of suppressing certain monasteries for the colleges of Windsor and King's College, Cambridge, wherever the revenues of the said houses do not exceed 8,000 ducats. Rome, 4 non. Nov. 1528.
Lat., vellum.
Vit. B. X. 130.
B. M.
2. Contemporary copy. Pp. 6.
Endd.: [Bulla pro] collegio regis de Wyndesore.
2 Nov,
p. 575.
After I had sealed my last, and delivered it to the Cardinal (Wolsey), he received fresh advices touching the universal peace from the French king, who does nothing without the counsel and consent of this King and the Cardinal. While the negotiation for peace is in course, the Pope should endeavor to obtain a general abstinence from war. London, 2 Nov. 1528.
2 Nov.
R. O.
4904. JOHN TAYLER, Master of the Rolls, to BRIAN TUKE.
This day the Chancellor is gone to the King at Fontainebleau. I hear "that Savona is in treaty to yield him to the Jannes, except he be succored shortly. Madame is at St. Germains, where the queen of Navarre has taken her chamber; God make her a glad mother; and there the count of Jeneva, brother to Madame and to the duke of Sabadia, shall marry the sister to the duke De Longa Villa." Paris, 2 Nov. 1528. Signed.
P.S.—Wishes an answer to his letter about Albany.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
2 Nov.
Vit. B. X. 122.
B. M.
4905. ITALY.
Extract from letters of the prothonotary Casale to Vannes, dated Rome, 30 Oct.
Has concluded with the Pope for the bull of indulgence, not without entreaties. Told the card. S. Quatuor of it. He said the King and Wolsey should not exhibit them too much, and that alms should be first of all sent to St. Peter's at Rome, for the foundation of a chapel.
Letters have arrived from St. Pôl, stating that he was unable, from the shortness of the time, to succor Savona; that he was waiting for fresh Germans, who had already arrived at Susa, and he wishes to complete the number of 10,000 foot. Does not know what he can do now winter is approaching.
ii. From letters of Paul Casale to Vannes, Rome, 2 Nov.
Has just returned from the palace. Has obtained the bull for the aggregation of monasteries, to the amount of 8,000 ducats, for the two colleges. Does not send it, as he fears the dangers of the road, but will send it in eight days by Taddeo, with the rescripts and the bull of indulgence.
iii. From letters of John Joachin, 25 Oct., Camerino.
Renzo left on Saturday with all the ships. Yesterday a Venetian galley arrived at Ancona, with news that the first 1,000 foot had arrived in Apulia, where they were received with great joy; but the arrival of Renzo and the prince of Melti was looked for still more eagerly. It is said that the people of Barletta do not fear the Spaniards, but they need a leader. Yesterday 300 infantry embarked, and today 500. The Florentine forces are expected, which the viscount of Turenne, now at Senegaglia, will send to Apulia. Camillus Pardus and Octavius Ursinus are enlisting 100 horse each. The viscount of Turenne has assisted many of the captains by distributing 3,000 cr. among them.
Lat., pp. 2.
2 Nov.
R. O.
Desires his good offices with my lord Cardinal in favor of his kinsman, the bearer. Promises him an ambling nag, if successful. Cambridge, All Souls' Day.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: To the right worshipful Maister Thomas Crumwell, beside the Austyne Freers at London.
2 Nov.
R. O.
Sir Will. Elicar, who hath of the King the castles of Wark and Dunstanbrowgh, lies at the mercy of God, not likely to recover. Wishes to have them of the King, as other wardens have had. Wark is the stay and key of all this country. "Wherffor yff I shall contenw thes rooms I must ahave (?) some thyng to ber houth my charges, and not all way to oon do my selff and have no thank, and put to thes plages and houtbreks besyde." In haste, 2 Nov.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: To my bedfellow Arrundell.
5 Nov.
R. O.
4908. JOHN TAYLER, Master of the Rolls, to BRIAN TUKE.
Divers letters out of Italy have remained in my hands for lack of a messenger. The bishop of Pistoja has been with the Emperor, and is now at Paris, sick of an ague. He has brought divers letters from our ambassadors there. This is the third post I have despatched to Calais. I have visited the Bishop, and he tells me there is no comfort of peace, and that Sylvester could get no answer till 28 Sept., in very general terms. Since the ruin of the French at Naples, the Emperor was so strange that he could get no answer, and our ambassadors are not allowed to come to Court except under custody. The Emperor is much displeased with the King, and will be more so if the divorce proceed. Francis is still at Fontainebleau, where no man can see him. Have heard nothing of Thadeus since he left. Paris, 5 Nov. 1528. Signed.
P. 1. Add. Endd.
5 Nov.
Vesp. C. IV.
B. M.
Wrote on Sept. 26, by the bishop of Pistoja, that he hoped to be despatched by the Emperor in two days. Went accordingly to the Emperor, who told him that he had put his answer in writing, and desired him to ask John Alaman for it, and he might then return when he pleased. Obtained leave to make a reply to the answer. When Alaman gave him the answer, he told him that a special peace between the Emperor and the King must precede the universal peace, for otherwise it was not possible to find a mediator or a person to receive hostages. Said there was no need of a peace, for Wolsey would be a good enough mediator. Alaman replied that if the King did not mediate, the Pope would be the most suitable person. Said that means must be found for concluding the universal peace immediately after the other, for it would not be honorable for the King to abandon the French king. He replied that the particular peace might be made on the condition that, if the universal peace did not ensue, it should be of no effect. Said that if the Emperor would declare his mind, Darius would write to Wolsey, who might desire a more direct method of attaining peace. Alaman replied, that as Darius had no commission to treat in the name of the King, it was not to be hoped that the Emperor would declare his mind to him; and he advised him to ask the ambassadors at Valladolid if they had any commission to treat for the particular peace, and he doubted not that if they had, some good might be done, for the King would then be the Emperor's friend. Now that he is an enemy, he cannot interfere as a mediator, for the Emperor cannot trust him. Said he would gladly write to the ambassadors, but he believed that they had no such commission. Added that he was surprised that they made so much of the defiance, as they knew that the King had committed no hostile acts in consequence; and that the King was of such a generous mind that, if the Emperor trusted him, he would rather lose his kingdom and his life than deceive him; that if they really desired universal peace, as they said they did, they ought to propose methods, as they did not approve of what Darius proposed. Alaman told him to write to the ambassadors; if they had a commission, things would go well; if not, the Emperor would not declare his mind any further.
Immediately sent a courier to ask the ambassadors for advice. They had not yet been allowed to come to Court. Alaman sent to ask him if he wished to reply to the Emperor's answer. Answered that he could not do so until he heard whether the ambassadors had any commission or not. Received in two days an answer from them, saying that they had none, and they sent special letters about the matter, which he might show to the Imperialists. Drew up an answer from their suggestions, which he sent to the Emperor, and of which he encloses a copy. The Emperor expressed wonder at his having answered his proposals. Reminded him that he said that he would be content to conclude universal peace, and to postpone the duel; but these proposals seemed to express a contrary intention. He replied that there was no mediator. Asked whether Wolsey would not be the best mediator. He replied that he was a party. Said that his Majesty knew well that Wolsey did not act as a party, and he might see from the state of affairs when he sent over Darius that he acted as a friend. He then said that he would look at the replies, and answer them, and retired to his chamber.
Went to the Great Chancellor, and expressed wonder at the answer he had received. He said we should have none other. Said that if the Emperor would give him no other answer he must be patient; but he could not help saying that it was hard for the Emperor to expect the French king to fulfil all his obligations, and then to leave the restoration of his children to the Emperor's mere will. (fn. 5) The Chancellor answered that it was no use urging this, for there would never be peace between the Emperor and the French king unless the latter fulfilled all his obligations before the return of either of his sons, and that he must acknowledge that he had spoken ill concerning the duel. Asked whether one son could not be restored in return for the performance of certain conditions, but he said the Emperor would never consent to this. *Tried to persuade the Chancellor that there was no need for the French king to acknowledge his fault in speaking of the duel. He said they must expect the Emperor always to consider his honor. Said that, to speak as himself, not as connected with Wolsey, he thought that they were the more difficult about this peace because they hoped to dissolve the League and gain over the Venetians and Florentines; but he was certain that they could never do this, for they were afraid the Imperialists desired peace with them to crush the French king, and that then they would do the same to them. He replied, if the Venetians will not make peace, there will be war, and they will be the cause of the subsequent evils. Said they could not fairly be considered so, for whatever they did would be in defence, not offence. Said further that the Emperor had hitherto gained nothing from the League, but still the king of England was quiet, and had attempted nothing against the Emperor; but, if he took up arms, in what state would the Emperor's affairs be? The Chancellor answered, why do you talk of the king of England? If we wished, we could expel him from his kingdom in three months. Said he did not believe that the Emperor, with the aid of Flanders, was strong enough to do so. He answered he was not speaking of Flanders, but he knew what he was saying.
In order the better to find out what he meant, said he did not believe that if Scotland were joined with Flanders the Emperor could drive out the King. He asked what men the King had. Answered that the men of his own kingdom were able to resist the Scotch, the Flemings, and any one who attempted to injure them; for the King himself was courageous, and had experience in war, his subjects were strong and bold, and had often made trial of themselves against the Scots and others, and gained the victory. The Chancellor answered that he did not mean Scotland, but that he would be driven out by his own [subjects] in three months. Said he knew for certain that Alaman was mistaken, for all his subjects were obedient and loved him. He answered that they knew well how matters were. Said that if he thought otherwise than what Darius had said, he was mistaken. Said also that if the King did not wish to take up arms, he might still injure the Emperor so much that Darius did not see how he could resist. The Chancellor answered that God would help them because the cause was just. Said he would not dispute about the justice of the cause, but he knew well that the Emperor and he were so prudent that he did not believe they would govern their affairs on the idea that God would help them, for that would be to tempt God. He said that they relied on their own strength also. Darius answered that they knew their inferiority in strength, and that if they contended with their superiors it would be tempting God. The Chancellor asked if Darius meant that the Emperor had no money, and asserted that besides the money granted by his subjects from their affection to him, and besides what he was about to receive from a contract concerning India, he (the Chancellor) had devised a method for raising two millions of gold. Said he supposed that if the Emperor could raise this sum by this means, other powers could raise much more. He said other powers could not use these means. Answered that if they could not, they might find others of no less utility, adding that it would be a good thing if the Emperor would declare his mind, even partially, that some means might be devised for concluding a peace, which was at once necessary and useful to all parties. He said the Emperor would never do that, for it was not usual. Darius said he did not think that the Emperor should consider what was usual in a matter so necessary to Christendom, but all ought to further it with sincerity and alacrity, and he was sure that if the Emperor and he had seen the cruelties of the war, they would rather give up part of Spain than allow it to continue; if the Emperor would not declare his mind, the Chancellor surely could do so, and if he could not to him as Wolsey's servant, he might as Sylvester Darius, and he could then report it to Wolsey, and would promise not to mention it to any one else. He answered that that would be the same as the Emperor doing so. Said that if he, as Chancellor, could not speak, let some one else, either in the Council or outside, and Darius would immediately go to the Cardinal. He answered that they could not otherwise declare their master's intention, and asked if Darius thought the challenge and the words of the French king honorable. Said that they should not be noticed; and reminded him that when pope Julius and the French king called the Catholic king a Moor and a Jew, he only laughed and disregarded it. He replied that the Emperor dismissed all rancor, but could not dismiss what affected his honor, and he had passed over his saying at the time of his election that he was a monster without sense, and that he did not know how to speak. Said that even if these things touched his honor they were only worthy of ridicule, for it was impossible for the duel to take place, as neither a mode of fighting nor a safe place could be found. The Chancellor said the Emperor would go to the middle of France with his army, and there meet the King. Said these things had better be passed over, and the means of making peace considered. The Chancellor said this could not be, for there was no mediator. Suggested Wolsey, but he replied that he was a party, and the king of England had defied the Emperor. Said that the King had committed no hostile actions. He answered that they knew of the money which he was paying to the French against the Emperor. Said he did not believe that he had paid any money to be used against the Emperor, and that he knew if the Emperor trusted the King, the King would rather lose his life or his kingdom than deceive him; he might easily persuade himself of this, for the King could gain nothing by perfidy. He replied that the French king said the same, and then deceived them. Said the cases were not the same, for the king of England had no cause to deceive the Emperor, but the French king had, as the Emperor had so loaded him with severe conditions. The Chancellor said that the king of England should first make peace with them, and then treat for universal peace. Asked if he thought it fair for the King to desert his allies without hope of peace. He answered that the king of England, the Pope, the Venetians, and the duke of Ferrara had deserted them. Said he did not know their reason, but was sure they did not do it without a cause; which he denied; and Darius rejoined that, although neither the Emperor nor he might have given a cause, some other Imperialist agents might have done so. Finally, he said, that he could give no other answer than the Emperor had given, and so dismissed Darius. Three or four days after, John Alaman intimated to him that he ought to ask the Emperor's leave to depart. Went accordingly to his Majesty, who said that he would give no further answer. Thought, from the words in the Emperor's answer, that it is not honorable for the French king's sons to be restored before the King fulfils what may be concluded; that the Emperor will not be content with the treaty of Burgos. Asked him this question, but he replied that he would give no further answer. Said he thought from the answer that his Majesty would not be content with the offers accepted by him at Burgos, and that he wished Francis to fulfil his obligations, but for the return of his children to be still at his disposal, which to honorable men would seem severe. He said he should do what was fitting for honorable men, and those who were displeased with his conduct were not honorable; if the king of England would make peace he would be content, and, in fact, desired nothing more. Asked for licence to send a courier to Wolsey with the answer. He said Darius had better go himself, for now no licence was granted to couriers.
Went to the Chancellor for a licence to depart. He said he was sorry Darius was not returning better contented. Said he must take what they gave, but he was grieved to take back war when he came for peace. Asked whether what was said in the answer about the French king performing his obligations before the restoration of his children, referred to the offers made at Burgos, or to new conditions which were to be made. He answered that it was not his business to explain the Emperor's answer. Said that he could easily explain what he had drawn up. Then he said that the Emperor did not intend to stand to the conditions made at Burgos. Asked if the Emperor intended the French king to perform his obligations, and then leave matters to the Emperor's disposal without his giving hostages as he had promised at Burgos. He answered that he was certain that Francis would never have back one son.
Went to Alaman, and asked him the same questions. He answered plainly that the Emperor would not be content with the conditions of Burgos, nor even with those of Madrid, but that he wanted more; also that he would not give hostages for the French king's security, but would return his sons when he had performed everything.
Went to Nicolas de Pernodi (Perrenot), one of the Privy Council; complained that the Emperor seemed so adverse to peace; tried to show him how far the answers were from what was honorable, and asked him to urge the Emperor and his Council to declare his mind for making peace, and send to him at Valladolid, where he would stay for a few days to recover his health. This he promised to do, but feared it would be of no use.
The Emperor is levying men. It is said that he will send either 1,000 or 5,000 men to Genoa, to go to the defence of Milan. There are also reports that he has written to the prince of Orange to go thither, and that he is expecting 5,000 Germans. The herald sent by the Emperor has returned from France. He reports that the French king would not allow the reading of the cartel, and that he gave him as reward 500 gold pieces, and a robe of cloth of gold. The following day the Emperor summoned several persons, but it is not known what they decided. He blamed the herald for not throwing the cartel at the King's feet, and for receiving the reward. Many persons praise the French king for his answer. At the Court it is thought certain that the Emperor will send 9,000 or 10,000 foot to Italy in the spring. Some think he will go himself, and with these troops and those of Antony de Leva, who is at Milan, attack the Venetian territory. It is said that he has used threats and offers to detach them from the League, and considers that his success depends upon them. Stopped for some days at Valladolid to recover from an illness which he had caught at Madrid. Writes thus fully because he cannot travel fast. Writes also to Clerk, and sends a copy of the answer of the Emperor. Sends to Wolsey letters from the Emperor. Bayonne, 5 Nov. 1528.
Hol., Lat., pp. 22. The passages in cipher deciphered by a modern hand.
Vesp. C. IV.
B. M.
Cannot, without incurring the blame of negligence, refrain from answering the reply which he has received from Alamann.
It is said that the articles brought by him only regard the French king, and therefore do not regard universal peace, and must be disapproved. Wolsey mentioned only the French king, thinking that there would be no difficulty in making peace between the Emperor and other powers, and because he had heard that the Emperor had told the Italian ambassadors that he wished to settle his affairs with Italy without the intervention of the French king or any other. If the Emperor please, Wolsey will persuade the Italians and other powers to send ambassadors to his Majesty, or to settle their affairs with his agents there. Is sure that Wolsey will refuse no labor for the sake of peace. Thinks it would be well if the Emperor would declare his mind, and agree on some method by which, if peace could be made with the other potentates, matters might at once be arranged with the French king, lest, after treating with the former, universal peace should be hindered by the difficulties arising with the latter. Thinks the requiring a commission from him a subtlety of law, for the Emperor must know that whatever is promised by Wolsey, or by him as sent from Wolsey, in the name of the French king, will be inviolably performed. Besides, mediators and amicable negotiators do not usually have commissions, but try to persuade parties to agreement, and discover their intentions so as to bring it about. Thinks it expedient that the method of arranging peace with France should be first concluded, and then a commission should be sought from the King to consent to it, which he does not think that he would refuse, as it would be settled in the name and by the authority of Wolsey, whom the Emperor knows to be acting from a desire to benefit all, and not to deceive any one.
The Emperor thinks the articles should be rejected because they propose the restitution of the hostages before the French king has performed his obligations. Replies that the articles do not say this, but they propose that all the obligations should be performed before the restitution of both hostages. It seems hard that since suspicion has arisen between the Emperor and the French king, his Majesty should demand the fulfilment of all the conditions, and that then the restoration of the Princes should depend solely upon his will. Lady Margaret and Wolsey thought the same, and tried to find some means to mitigate it. She has sent to him on the subject. It is said that the king of England declares by the defiance that he means to act as an enemy, and therefore the Emperor ought not to trust him. To this he replies that no hostile act has been committed since the intimation, and the Emperor knows what was the state of affairs when Wolsey sent him, and can see that no fraud is intended. He knows also that Henry is too generous and upright to break his promises, and in this instance he could gain nothing by perfidy. Both he and Wolsey earnestly desire peace, and know that it could not last unless they kept inviolable their engagements with him. Touching the proposal to settle matters with the king of England, and then, with him as mediator, to negotiate a universal peace; has no commission on this point, but considers that it would be dishonorable of the King to forsake his confederates, especially as there is no need for him to mediate, as Wolsey would be a most fit person. Suggests that all that concerns the universal peace should be first treated, and the means agreed to, so that when peace was made between the King and the Emperor there would be nothing to do but to proceed to execute what had been concluded.
Thinks the Emperor should assemble his Council and devise some method; for when two parties desire to conclude anything, it is not usual for one party to do nothing but confute the proposals of the other.
Hol., Lat., Copy. Endd.: Responsa D. Silvestri Darii.
5 Nov.
R. O.
In returning from Spain, fell in with one who had come from Ireland with three or four falcons and as many dogs, and two Spaniards, going to the court of the Emperor. Afterwards on my road I met with Thomas Bedechoc (Badcock), an Englishman, who told me that he had heard from certain Spaniards in Bilboa that the said Irishman had been sent to the Emperor from the marquis of Desmont, to offer the Earl's service to the Emperor, and promise him that if he would give certain aid and artillery to the said Marquis, the latter would take up arms against the King. I thought it right to inform you of these things. Bayonne, 5 Nov. 1528.
Hol., p. 1. Add. Endd.
5 Nov.
R. O.
4912. LEAD.
Bill indented between Oliver Flynt, vicar of Chesterfield, executor of Edward Basforde and Raphe Alen, whereby the former covenants to deliver to the latter at the Boollhill, Wirkiswurthe, Derb., a certain quantity of lead at 5l. 10s. the folder, Bool weight. 5 Nov. 20 Hen. VIII. Signed.
P. 1.
7 Nov.
R. O.
Has received his loving writings, dated at his castle [of Alnwick, the 3]d inst., showing his good will to peace. Lion herald brought, as the Earl wrote, a safe-conduct for the commissioners, who are now departed, and will keep diet in Berwick. Edinburgh, 7 Nov. 1528. Signed.
Add. Endd.
7 Nov.
S. B.
Cumb.: John Lamplewe, *Sir Wm. Penyngton, Cuth. Musgrave.
Northumb.: Sir Ralph Fenwike, Thos Eryngton, *Sir Edw. Grey.
Yorks.: *Sir Jo. Constable of Holderness, Thos. Strangways, Jo. Norton.
Notts and Derby: *Nich. Strelley, Sir Hen. Sacheverell, Sir Jo. Horsey.
Linc.: *Geo. Fitzwilliam, Sir Rob. Dymmok, Sir Jo. Thymelby.
Warw. and Leic.: Jo. Harrington, Sir Jo. Villers, *Roger Ratcliff.
Salop: Ric. Maynwaryng, *Rob. Nedeham, Thos. Laken.
Staff.: Wm. Bassett, Geo. Gresley, *Edw. Aston.
Heref.: Wm. Clynton, Thos. Monyngton, *Sir Jo. Lyngen.
Glouc.: *Sir Ant. Poyntz, Wm. Throgmerton, Rob. Witney.
Oxon. and Berks: Jo. Brome, *Sir Simon Harcourt, Wm. Stafford.
North'ton.: Sir Wm. Gascoigne, *Sir Wm. Fitzwilliam, Edw. Mountague.
Camb. and Hunts: Giles Alyngton, Thos. Hutton, *Ph. Parrys.
Beds and Bucks: *Sir Jo. Hampden, Sir Edw. Donne, Sir Francis Brian.
Norf. and Suff.: *Sir Wm. Paston, Jo. Tyndale, Thos. Jermyn.
Essex and Herts: Jo. Bollys, Rob. Forster, *Sir Giles Capell.
Kent: *Wm. Kempe, Ric. Fane, Wm. Waller.
Surrey and Sussex: *Sir Nich. Carewe, Ric. Belyngeham, Sir Edw. Bray.
Hants: Sir Wm. Uvedale, *Ric. Andrewes, Rob. Bulkeley.
Wilts: *Jo. Erneley, John Horsey of Marten, Sir John Seymour.
Soms. and Dorset: *And. Lutterell, Sir Edw. Gorges, Sir Nich. Wadham.
Devon: *Sir Piers Eggecombe, Ric. Hals, Andr. Hillersden.
Cornw.: *John Chamond, Wm. Godolghan, Sir Jo. Arundell.
Rutl.: Edw. Catesby, Geo. Makworth, *Sir Everard Digby.
(fn. 6)Worc.: Sir Geo. Throgmorton, Sir Edw. Croft, Roger Wynter.
Cheshire: Sir Hen. D. ..., *Thos. Fulshurst, George Bothe.
Lancashire: (Three names illegible).
Westmor.: *Henry earl of Cumberland.
Del. Westm., 7 Nov. 20 Hen. VIII.
8 Nov.
Le Grand,
III. 197.
Since I wrote to you on the 27th (28th?) ult., I have done all that the most importunate and troublesome fellow in the world could have done to get money, and in spite of all hindrances presented myself three times to the Legate. On one of these occasions he kept talking to me a long time about the great letters I sent, the second time he asked to see them (l'autre à les voir), and each time I pressed the matter of the money as much as I could. My cause being well pleaded my good right prevailed, with the good will which I believe Wolsey really feels, though he never spoke frankly to me till yesterday, when he went to the King expressly about this matter, and, so far as I can see, had some discussion about it. I know he took with him all the letters and papers which could be of use to show the expences you have been at in Italy. Mark that in this, as will be the case in everything in which we shall have to do with him, matters have turned out quite according to the long letter to which I have so often referred you. I had written one word, finding myself so much hindered, to my lord of Bath, and spoken to some others who might have helped to lay the evil wind. Finally, Wolsey has assured me on his life that I shall be despatched in three or four days.
Wolsey told me yesterday the King and he approve of your proposal for "practising" the peace by means of the Pope. To say the truth, I used to see clearly that Wolsey preferred his own, and no wonder, but now I see he frankly agrees to the Pope's plan, and, in fact, is already thinking of sending some one to Rome to join with your ambassadors that they may negociate in good earnest; for which they desire to know the intentions of Francis as soon as possible. I fancy they are beginning to see that in the present state of the divorce question they must not wait assurance of it on their side, and as the Pope much desires this honor, they are willing to gratify him. And really Campeggio preaches so continually of the Pope's great good will, and what he is resolved to do and endure for this end, that I can hardly help believing something of it.
Yesterday Wolsey, after being very angry at my importunity about the money, (though we afterwards came to agreement,) asked me if I had thought about what he one day before had requested me to consider, viz., if I could find that the King's marriage never was valid, the Pope never having had power to dispense. Mark, Monseigneur, that after many disputes that very day we came upon this subject of the divorce, he showing the great rupture with the Emperor which will come of it, and the perpetual confirmation of our amity, which will be quite according to his plan. And he desired me, as one of my master's most faithful councillors, whom he regarded as his friend and brother, to consider the state in which they were, sc. what I wrote to you on the 29th, for I had learned it on good authority. He had also heard that I was a great theologian, and was anxious for my opinion on this point, as it was that on which they chiefly relied. Although I told you four days before what I thought of this, after some excuses of my age and little knowledge I said that I had never thought well about it, and could not easily answer. However, he pressed me much to think over it, and declare my mind simply according to Scripture, apart from the opinions of doctors. In the end I could not refuse, and told him my conscientious opinion, which, if I had thought otherwise, I would have withheld. I will send it you next time, for I have not had time to copy it, having had but one day of term. M. de Bourges will understand it better than you, and will translate it to you. This last time I was with the Legate, so far as he had had leisure to look at it he seemed pleased, and, after many thanks and praises, prayed me, in behalf of his master, to write surely and secretly to Madame, as I am doing. His reason for making this request to her, he says, is to convince Campeggio that not only the English but learned men abroad also agree in this opinion; for he has no doubt that when the matter has taken the form I wrote to you, the Queen, who has demanded counsel, will make great remonstrances to Campeggio, especially as he understands she has long been prepared for it. He has therefore asked me to take an opportunity, in conversation with Campeggio, to show him the arguments which occur to me in this matter, knowing that the Cardinal would value my opinion; and that he may see that what is sent from France is genuine. Wolsey would like it to be signed by those who draw it up (des ouvriers). I paused to think what could make him say this to me. It is certain that some of those here who do not like the business say, that in any case he who marries the Princess will be king of England hereafter; and I suspected, for all his apparent frankness, he wanted to get us by indirect means to acknowledge the marriage as null, in case the marriage of Mons. d'Orleans should go further. This you will have to consider about. For my part I thought I must satisfy him. I have signed nothing; and, even if I had, my opinion is quite informal, not being founded on a commandment or will of the master; so I delivered to him my conscientious judgment.
That you may be able to form a judgment I give you full information of what I see. They are certainly much perplexed, as I wrote before, especially because few of their doctors agree in their opinion, "et si ne sont pour y condescendre, encores qu'ils pensassent le povoir faire et devoir, pour les causes qu'aultrefois vous ay mandées." The Cardinals have full power to take cognizance of it, and, I think, with the clause jointly or separately; but even if the English cardinal can do it, he would never do it without the other; for, the matter being so far advanced, it would be a great injury to the cause hereafter, if the other on some pretext had not likewise given sentence; and of him they do not hold themselves sure, for he maintains he will follow the judgment of his conscience, and only if he can acknowledge that the divorce is lawful will he take the leap. This may be the cause why they ask your aid. If there be any other hidden reason, I do not know it. In any case, if you wish to please the King and Wolsey, keep the matter secret. I believe you know what they say they will do with the Princess if the divorce proceed, viz., give her a good marriage, leaving her, as far as they can, no claim to the succession. I enclose the articles on which you must get the opinions.
Wolsey has asked me to write to you to make arrangements for the passage of couriers in Lombardy. I believe that one has been killed, which is an obstacle to the common affairs. As to the colors you asked for, there are some of two kinds. I suppose you do not want the common ones. Those most liked are black, yellow and violet. I do not say yellow gilt. I would have sent them sooner, but did not like to make a dispatch without better assurance of money. This is why I kept the King's great letters so long to show to Wolsey. I showed them to him on the morrow of All Saints. I send you a copy of the last letters received from Viterbo. There is a report here of a great mutiny at Milan, in which the Spaniards have been illtreated, and Anthony de Leva killed. The Imperial ambassador told it to some one yesterday in secret, but the King got wind of it, and made great rejoicings at it. I assure you he makes greater demonstration of friendship than ever. Nothing is yet known of the man Babou wrote about. They spoke of sending him to Spain. London, 8 Nov.
Fr. Add.
8 Nov.
R. O.
Various reports were spread here about Cromwell, which he is glad proved false. Gregory is well, et reliqui tui have now got cloaks to shield them from the cold. They have also a blazing fire to keep them comfortable. Little Gregory is becoming great in letters. Christopher (fn. 7) does not require much stirring up. Acknowledges a bundle of cloth received yesterday from Cromwell. Pembroke Hall, 8 Nov.
P.S.—The plague which sent us into the country has nearly consumed our money.
Hol., Lat., p. 1. Add.: Suorum studiorum nequaquam vulgari patrono, D. Thomæ Crumwello, viro ut claro ita multis nominibus inclyto. Ex Cantabrigia.
8 Nov.
R. O.
Bargain and sale by Sir George Throgmerton to Wolsey, of the manor of Ravenston, Bucks, of the clear yearly value of 38l., for 20 years' purchase. Wolsey at the same time covenants that he and the dean and canons of Cardinal's College, Oxford, will grant a 21 years' lease of the premises and of the late priory of Ravenston to Robert Throgmerton, son and heir apparent of Sir George. Dated—May 20 Hen. VIII. Signed: Per me, George Throkmorton.
Pp. 5, large paper. Draft in Wriothesley's hand, with corrections by Cromwell.
R. O. 2. Another draft, dated 8 Nov. 20 Hen. VIII., in which the covenant for the lease to Robert Throgmerton is struck out.
In Wriothesley's hand, pp. 6, large paper.


  • 1. Qu. by Anne Boleyn?
  • 2. A paragraph at the close of this letter has been carefully obliterated in the original, and part of it cut off.
  • 3. Of course the writer meant the late Prince, i.e. Arthur.
  • 4. "Et quant tout est compté, je tiens qu'encores que le Pape et tous les Cardinaulx eussent, et par le passé et par le present, approuvé le mariage, qu'ils n'ont peu ne pourroient faire, estant prouvé, comme l'ont dit qu'il est, que le feu Roy et elle ont couché ensemble, car Dieu en a piecza luy-mesmes donné sa sentence."
  • 5. These passages are marked in the margin by Wolsey.
  • 6. None of the names in Worcestershire is pricked.
  • 7. Wellfed?