Henry VIII: October 1530, 16-31

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530. Originally published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1875.

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, 'Henry VIII: October 1530, 16-31', in Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530, (London, 1875) pp. 3013-3026. British History Online https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp3013-3026 [accessed 30 May 2024].

. "Henry VIII: October 1530, 16-31", in Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530, (London, 1875) 3013-3026. British History Online, accessed May 30, 2024, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp3013-3026.

. "Henry VIII: October 1530, 16-31", Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530, (London, 1875). 3013-3026. British History Online. Web. 30 May 2024, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp3013-3026.


October 1530

16 Oct.
R. O.
I have warned my clergy, according to your commandment, to appear at your convocation at York on 7 Nov. next; but as Parliament has been prorogued till 22nd of Oct., and men doubt "whether that day do hold or not," and as the old custom has been to see what the province of Canterbury first assented to, and then for the province of York to consent or dissent, as the case may be, I thought best to send to your Grace to know whether you will prorogue the day or not. If you determine on the 7th, I beg you to license me to be absent till St. Andrew's Day, after which I must repair to York for the King's commission. Before St. Martin's Day I shall not be furnished with any money, and was never so badly supplied before. Auckland, 16 Oct.
Hol., pp. 2. Add.
17 Oct.
R. O.
Delivered, as instructed, Wolsey's letters to my lord of Norfolk, with as lowly recommendations as he could devise. After reading them the Duke walked in the park of Hamtuncorte, and asked for his credence. Declared all Wolsey's "good fashions and manner of living," and tried to persuade him how little you aspired to any authority; but the Duke could refrain no longer, and said no man should make him believe that, "and the more that I spake to the contrary, the more out of frame I found him. For, after many contradictions on both sides, he showed me, though I list to be blinded, I should blind no man here; for he said, he had both your Grace's hand to the contrary, and knew three messages sent by three divers persons of your Grace to the King, whereby it might well appear that ye desired as much authority as ever ye did." The messengers were Brertun, Laytun, and a third unknown to Arundell, whose name he has forgotten. Wolsey had reminded each of them of the benefits he had conferred on them and their families. All these messages are taken in the worst sense, and it is almost impossible to remove their mistrust. "I beseech your Grace on my knees that ye will not be known that I have sent you word of these persons' names, nor of the matter, which might do me great hurt, and your Grace no good." By making long suit has got Norfolk to promise "that in all your reasonable causes he will be as good friend to your Grace as I can desire; and as for Strangwyche's matter, look what reason, conscience or law may do for your Grace, and ye shall be sure thereof, as he sayeth." Has moved my lords Chancellor and Chief Justice in that matter, who are to determine the cause along with Norfolk. In four or five days they will hear what Strangwyche has to say about "this new matter that maketh for your Grace," and make an end thereof. Is sure master Secretary is willing to do Wolsey pleasure, "always regarding that by means of setting forth your Grace's suits he be not perferid to mosche one youre parte." He favors Wolsey's college more than any other. Knows he has lately spoken with the King, and got him to instruct the judges and counsel to devise for the surety of the college. The King will, however, take some of the lands of the college. Wolsey's restitution is considered "not available by the law," but he need not fear the King or any other. "As concerning the estate that ye be now in, and again, if all men would persuade the King to the contrary hereof, I think assuredly they could not prevail; wherefore, your Grace need not doubt but that that is now done shall shortly be done to your Grace's comfort." Master Secretary advises Wolsey not to send up master Provost as yet. Cannot see that his pension of Winchester is sure to be paid at this time, but his friends hope well. London, 17 Oct.
Hol., pp. 3. Add.: [My] lord Cardinal.
17 Oct.
Vit. B. XIII. 124. B. M.
6689. [CROKE] to CRANMER.
This book, printed before my lord (Stokesley) left Venice, the last day of August, would not have been printed if Stokesley had not forced him to deliver it, and a copy he had made, to Cassalis. Told him that Raphael said he had no more copies, and on the receipt of this, he would begin his work in the Queen's favor; but, nevertheless, Stokesley said that unless Croke delivered it, he would [complain of him] to the King. Has informed the King of the result. On the 24th or 25th of August, Stokesley s[howed] Croke a letter from Raphael; to which Croke wrote an answer, and sent it to Stokesley, to be forwarded or not, as he thought best.
Stokesley retains it, for two reasons:—to p[rove that] Raphael wrote his work against the King because Croke would not return his copy;—but the [date] of the book, compared with the date of Croke's letter, it being St. B[artholomew's] Even when Stokesley first spoke of it, will show that this is untrue; and, secondly, to prove that Croke had divers things procured by him a[nd others] out of their hands, and ascribed them to his own labor. They thus try to prevent him [furthering] the King's cause. For this reason he left all the money with ... and none with Croke, and commanded the friars whom he had got, [to deal] no more with him, but with Cassalis, as appears by the letters of Leonicus, of whose gravity Pole can tell him. Friar Ambrose writes that Stokesley has made so many promises, and [not] performed them, that he has done much hurt to the King's cause. He ha[s caused] the King and the realm such shame, that the King had be[tter have] spent 10,000l. than have sent him hither. "[And as for] what I had done for the King, or ye went to Rome, ye[a, and what] I have done since, it were pity that I should lose my t[hanks, and others] have them that utterly have let the matter and shamed ... [I pray] you therefore to be suitor for me. Sir, I sent unto yo[u] ... courier, dwelling without Temple B[ar] ... a letter certifying ... and a copy of the instrument and determination of Ferrara," a letter to the King, and copies of others. Begs him to be good solicitor for him, and to keep nothing from the King. Venice, 17 Oct.
Hol., draft, pp. 2, mutilated.
17 Oct.
Add. MS. 28,581, f. 259. B. M.
As the Emperor has always desired him to send him full information about the affair of the queen of England, hopes he will not be annoyed at his frequent writing, although he is not always correctly informed. On the 1 Oct., as your Majesty knows, began the council of England. Reports some rumors about it, which he cannot well believe. Makes some comments of his own on the case. It is said the Pope dares not despatch the brief of the judges to punish these villanies, for fear of losing the friendship of France, though, if he would do right, he need fear no one but God. Paris, 17 Oct. 1530.
Sp., pp. 6, modern copy from Simancas.
18 Oct.
Add. MS. 28,581, f. 262. B. M.
* * * Reports a conversation with the duke of Milan's ambassador, in which he acknowledged it was intended to send an ambassador to England to ask for a loan (a pedille dineros prestos), who was commissioned to treat for a marriage with the king of England's daughter. Remembered that twenty days ago, talking with the English ambassador, he asked him, "What will the king of England do with his daughter if you go on with this wicked intention ?" He replied that the King wished her to marry. I said that whoever married her would expect the succession. He said, for this there would be good means. These things make me suspect that there is to be some talk about it. Should not be surprised if Henry were to give his daughter to him, although he has neither feet nor hands (aunque le faltan pies y manos). It would be not nearly so bad as what he is doing to her mother. * * * Venice, 18 Oct. 1530.
Sp., pp. 16, modern copy from Simancas.
19 Oct.
Add. MS. 28,581, f. 270. B. M.
Touching a MS. that he had sent to the Emperor a year ago before his coronation at Bologna with reference to the question of the queen of England's divorce. Account of arguments employed. Five Councils are appealed to in the King's favor; but their sentence does not contradict what we maintain, for they only award a temporal penalty. They do not say those who have so married should separate. Paris, 19 Oct.
Sp., pp. 10. Modern copy from Simancas papers now at Paris.
18 Oct.
Le Grand, III. 511.
The cardinal de Grammont had taken leave of the Pope, and was preparing to depart when the messenger came about the affair of England. The King's intention has been followed in presenting, showing, and withdrawing that which you understand, and in all other things. The Pope is wonderfully well pleased, and has followed the despatch in every point; and I trust that in spite of the ambassador Mayo's obstinacy, the bishop of Grammont will have a word more with his Holiness, taking leave of him today or tomorrow; so that the king of England will have tangible proof (touchera avec le doigt) that the Pope has done something in his behalf for the sake of Francis. Tuesday, 18 Oct. 1530.
19 Oct.
Vit. B. XIII. 127. B. M.
6694. [CROKE to HENRY VIII.]
The 19th [Oct.] gave to Edmond Herwell, to be sent to the King, excerpts in corroboration of his cause, from a Greek book, and from the Epistles, and Panorm[ia Ivonis] episcopi, and certain subscriptions from friar Thomas, but not of much authority or learning. Delivered also the same day unto the [courier] letters of Dr. Brianus, vicar to the chancellor of the university of [Padua], the King's case printed by Casale, a copy of his own letters from Ferrara and Venice, stating that for lack of money, and by means of a friar [sent about] Italy by Sir Gregory with the King's own book and other writings in his favor, the [determi]nation of the divines of Ferrara was got from him; and the college of lawyers, who had promised, by Cœlius' procurement, to determine for the King, were forbidden to do so.
For 150 cr. in deposito the determination would have been given immediately under their common seal, and afterwards a counsel signed and sealed by them all, being 72 in number. Asks for a letter of credence for the duke of Ferrara, and a letter of thanks to Cœlius. Does not understand why the King's cause should have been printed, and copies sent to Augustin de Philibertis, cousin to friar Vincentius, our enemy, and to Padua, Bonony, and Ferrara, except to noise it abroad at Pavia, Milan, Mantua, and Turin, and make men more dangerous and costly. Intended to practise secretly in these places with the bishop of London.
Brianus' letter will show the King that his cause has not nor shall be proposed in the college of lawyers at Padua; for their chief, Parisius, not only refuses to write for the King, but goes about, by the procurement of the ambassador, to hinder those who would write. Sends a copy of a letter from him, dated Padua, 3 Sept. 1530, dissuading Hannibal from writing, for fear of offending Casale, and of a letter from Hannibal, showing that the ambassador is concerned in it. Campeggio's secretary, Florianus, and his fellows, have gone from town to town reporting that their master has the King's own handwriting affirming that the Queen was a maid when he married her; and he therefore will not accept an oath to the contrary,—on which oath the Queen has often offered to be content that her matter should be settled. The worst mischief is what has arisen from this book of Rhaphael Comensis, which Croke again sends to the King. He is the greatest solicitor that the Emperor has for the Queen in Italy. He caused his works for the King and the Queen to be printed and set forth together, that he might declare his affection for the Emperor, to the greater detriment and derision of the King. In the Queen's part, he plainly declares that the other was written as an exercise, but that this is his true opinion;—which words the Imperialists brag abroad to the King's great detriment. From the example of this book, by the labor of the Imperial ambassador, and by persuasion of the King's "most regal facility ad ignoscendum," all the friars and others whom he had attained now swerve and practise collusion with the Emperor's ambassador. Some have promised him to procure as much for the Queen as for the King. Friar Thomas says the ambassador "had sore labored him in this behalf," and he and others are much fainter than they were. Both he and Dionysius, who practises for friar Francis, daily resort to the Imperial ambassador, and the ambassador to friar Thomas. Hopes by his next letters to tell the King who is faithful, and who not. To excuse Raphael's wilful error, the King's ambassador has procured a letter from Rhaphael "unto [your Highness]...set forth a book the 19 day of this present month, printed in the...cause. Howbeit the titles and ends of both books compared togy[der in my] judgment compared together, will prove that this latter nothing an[swers]... made unto your Highness in the other, but manifestly declareth ... hath written for your Highness he will nothing sustain and ... somever he writeth against your Highness that to be his opinion and my[nd]... truth by him to be sustained." Thought himself bound to write concerning this, lest the King might be deceived by the letters of others.
The bishop of London writes to him [from Lyons] on 23 Sept; that the King desires him to send copies of the counsels to the ambassador in Rome. Has reserved no copies, which he would have done if the Bishop had advertised him in time. Gave the Bishop [copies] of the instrument of Padua, and all other counsels and subscriptions. Sent an index of them by Cranmer, and subscribed all the counsels with the words tradidit Londoniensi, but he was in too great haste to give Croke a bill. Some of the friars say that they have orders from my lord of London to meddle only with him and Cassalis, not with Croke. Does not know how he could do so, for he knows that he was deceived by Cyprian Berges, the dean of the lawyers of Padua, and others. He must have known also that this would not amend the negligence and infidelity of Cassalis, but put all the King's secrets in a hazard of being better [known] to the Emperor and the Pope than would be good.
Begs pardon for his importunate asking for money, of which he is ashamed. By the account sent to Tuke, has spent 640 cr., and will lack 50l. of his diets. Everything is four times dearer than it was eight weeks ago, in consequence of the great rains here and in the marches of Mantua, whereby 300 miles in compass are drowned. Beseeches him to order Tuke to send him money.
Hol., draft, pp. 4, mutilated.
Ib. f. 125.
B. M. Records of the Reformation, II. 27.
2. Another draft, slightly different from the above, from which a few omissions have been supplied. Venice, 19 Oct.
Hol., draft, pp. 4, mutilated.
19 Oct.
Vit. B. XIII. 126 b. B. M. Records of the Reformation, II. 25.
6695. [CROKE to HENRY VIII.]
Sundry great impediments and slanders cause him to wish the King to hear his other long and tedious letter read, or to take the report thereof from Cranmer only. Has hired the bearer to go through Antwerp, by means of Edmond Harwell. Light cloisterers like Rhaphael would be afraid of attempting like folly, if the Pope executed against him the sentence threatened in his brief. He would certainly be convicted of having written against his conscience.
Sends excerpts and subscriptions given him by friar Thomaso. They are nothing to those he was wont to give, and, except two, are rather number than authority.
He has asked Croke to forward letters to the King. Asks the King to stay credence until there is better proof of what he (Croke) has written.
Would rather die than the King should be abused or deceived by anything sent. Venice, 19 [Oct.]
Hol., copy, p. 1, mutilated.
Vit. B. XIII.
130. B. M.
6696. [CROKE] to CRANMER.
Has written to him three times that he must speak ... for Mr. Kingston's stuff, for the letter of bank which he sent was never paid, he being dead, but was returned by Cynami to Bonvise against Mr. Kingston's books, ... hundred marks still remain, as Harwell says, in Pandulphu[s' hands, and] Bonvice hath commanded that they shall be conveyed to him, wherefore Cranmer can help himself better with Antony Bonvice than Croke can do here. Wrote by Harwell on 19 Oct., "for which ye must [send to the] Stathus in Milk Street, beside Cheap, and in my letters from Ferrara ta[ke out one from] Dodo to Genyn, the courier, dwelling without Temple Bar, and by my lett[er sent] by Pandulphus Cynamye, the which ye must ask of Antony B[onvice, with] the which letters I sent letters and duplicates unto the King's hig[hness], of the instrument of the determination of Ferrara, and also two books p[rinted for the] King only. And th'other having two works, th'on with the King and th'oth[er against the] King," in which the author protested that the former was merely a declamation and the other his real opinion. Caused these books to be brought from Antwerp in post. Wishes to know when he receives them; whether these gear be [come to the] King's hand, and by whom; how the King taketh all things con...and other, and how he liked Croke's diligence at Bologna; how my Lo[rd] has done with Croke at the King's hands; what the ambassador has w[ritten of] him, and what works he has sent to England, and by whom subscribed, especially if by Thomas, friar Dionysius, friar Francis, or his cousin Dominico. Found prior Thomas one day reasoning against th[e]... conclusion, on the Queen's part with a friar, who, he says, t[ook the] contrary opinion. Sees that all is not sound. And thus fare ye well. A[t Venice.]
Friar Thomas told him that he could find a me[an whereby he] might well enough write a work against the King, which in ... Grace's matter, and cause that all that he had done should stand in ... his Grace. Doubts not that he means to follow Raph[ael's] example.
This is the good Stokesley has done by bidding them meddle no more with Croke but with Cassalis, to save the money which ought to have been paid for his commons. The friar Marcus Janua, whose subscriptions Cassalis sends to the King, subscribed before [to] Francis' book. Hears that friar Thomas now sends h[is book to] the King. If so, he plays the false friar with Croke. "...me on warke and sendeth another for the warke he shew...hand, and he hath therein altered many things to" * * * Encloses a billet for the King, to be delivered at his discretion. Sends a copy of Cœlius' letter, showing that for money we may have all the lawyers of Ferrara. Advises the King to write him a letter of thanks. He is doctor utriusque juris, learned in Greek and Latin, and wrote De Libero Arbitrio against Luther. His other name is Calchagninus; he is an earl born, and of great lands. Wishes the King to send him letters of credence to the duke of Ferrara, with privy instructions, but never to express this matter in letters to the Princes of this country.
Sends today to the Prothonotary for the counsels which the bishop of London bade him ask for. He bade Croke's servant tell him, that if he were not a patient man, Croke would repent writing letters against him, which he said he had in Croke's own hand.
Hol., draft, pp. 2, mutilated.
20 Oct.
Le Grand, III. 512.
As I hoped, card. de Grammont has had another word with the Pope about England. The English ambassadors, on receipt of letters from England of the 8th, "eurent refery du contenu en leursdites responses assez froidement;" but Grammont got his Holiness to consent finally to grant the delay, according to such form and conditions as I believe he will write, when he is with the King, to Madame and you. The Pope acted as well as could be, and told the ambassadors he granted the delay for the sake of Francis, against the wish of the Imperial ambassador. He twice answered them that he would do the utmost in his power, and even more, in consideration of the close alliance between England and France. He told me yesterday evening that he would despatch an express today, and write with his own hand to the Emperor, to get his approval of what had been done, as done for the best; which, he said, he had some hope of obtaining, as the Emperor had taken very well what the bishop of Vaison had written to him, and had asked time to consider it. Moreover he had acted well towards the card. Confessor and the ambassador Mayo, to remove all occasion of suspicion. Rome, 20 Oct. 1530.
20 Oct.
6698. JOHN PLANDON, late Clerk of the Lands of Wolsey's College at Oxford, to CROMWELL.
Reminds him of his request about the clerkship of the lands of the college at Ipswich. Master Dean settled for him to leave Oxford at Michaelmas, but he will stop till the court of Pipoudre for St. Frideswide's fair, which will be ended by the Feast of SS. Simon and Jude. Oxford, 20 Oct.
Hol., p. 1. Add.: To his right worshipful and singular good lord, Master Crumwell, Esquire. Endd.
21 Oct.
Cott. App. XLVIII. 110. B.M.
* * * "lyen three monethis in the Chaunserye; howbeit your Grace shalbe so provydyd for that ye shalbe owt of all dowtts for all the Kynges offycers in the meane season." Asks for some office under Wolsey for his kinsman Dr. Karbott. Though somewhat simple in appearance, believes he will do well if put in trust. I hope you will also be good lord to your servant Nic. Gyfforde, when anything falls that may do him good. Though young and somewhat wild, he is disposed to truth, [hone]ste, and hardyness, and will love your Grace with all his heart. "If anything fall, I beseech your Grace to remember my scholars in Cambridge, and both they [and I sha]ll pray to our Lord Jesu Christ to preserve [you] in long life, good health, with increase of [honor. The] Emperour will be at Colayn in the Feaste of ... without faylle. The parliament ys prorogyd [until the] vj. daye of January. The prelatts shal not appere [in the] premunire. Ther ys another way devysyd in [place thereof], as your Grace shall ferther know. The prynces of [Almayne] can ne wyllnot agree to Emperour. Written for lack of ... [in] haste, the xxj. of October."
Hol., p. 1, mutilated.
21 Oct.
Add. MS. 28,581, f. 286. B. M.
6700. MAI to CHARLES V.
Wrote on the 15th about the card. of Agramonte, and the delay he asked for in the matter of the Kings (de los ser. Reyes) of England. The Pope endeavored to get me to agree to a suspension of twenty days, but I opposed it. The card. of Osma then made a similar request to me by the Pope's desire, suggesting that in the interval the king of France, who had written in favor of England, might be brought to reason, or at least his mouth would be shut. Replied by showing the delays that had already occurred, and the unreasonableness of continually putting the Emperor off; to which both the Cardinal and Muscettola, who was present, agreed, so that the Pope had nothing to say in answer. Letters have since come from the king of England. Has not yet been able to discover their effect, but thinks from some information sent him from Bologna, whither Gregory Casal had gone to fetch his wife, that the King wishes them to give a promise not to take any new step during January. The enclosed from the baron Del Burjo, who is nuncio in England, will show the good results that have been obtained there.
I think I told you the English ambassadors would not give up to the Pope the letters they had from their King, when they demanded the three points of which I wrote. Tarbes (fn. 1) gave that of the French king, but afterwards got it back, saying that although Francis had full confidence in his Holiness, we were all mortals, and it might come into hands he would not like. I forbore to tell the Pope this was not an honorable way for kings to negotiate. I have every lay solicited the two points that remain of the memorial that I sent you, and yesterday they promised that card. Ancona. to whom it is committed, would give his vote in presence of the English ambassadors; and the Pope has promised to call them for that purpose today. Rodrigo Ninyo says that he will not write in this matter without the Pope's consent. It is not true, as the English pretend, that they have got a strong brief (un breve rezio), except that of which I wrote to you.
At Ferrara they have made the same diligence as at Bologna and Padua. The Duke's officers have promised to get the doctors to give a candid opinion, and not consult simply in the King's interest (y no quisieron sino que aconseiassen en fabor del Rey). These are vain diligences, for they themselves know quite well the cause is to be determined according to justice and canon law; and yet these men go troubling the world with theologians. The Pope wishes to make the French king a mediator to persuade the king of England to submit to his judgment, which every one says he will not submit to. On this matter I have been more yielding, as there is little danger; but, as I told card. Osma, my great fear is that one delay may lead to another. Rome, 21 Oct. 1530.
Sp., pp. 3, modern copy from Simancas.
23 Oct.
Vit. B. XIII. 130 b. B. M.
6701. [CROKE to CRANMER.]
The King's matters, by the bishop of London's handling, cannot prosper as much in Croke's hands as they ought to do. The friars whom Croke only attained, he has ordered to resort to Cassalis; whereof he hopes no harm will come, for good cannot. Knowing Cranmer's perfect zeal to the King's most rightful cause, encloses to him his letters to the King open, which he desires him to read and ponder whether it is better to deliver them or not. Thinks that, if my Lord has lessened Croke's credence by misreport, there is no way to put him to the rebuke for his untruth and covetousness in saving the money he would have paid to the Prothonotary for his meat and drink, but to show the King this letter, with Leonicus' enclosed; "in likewise if ye see the friar Thomas to send any work to the King." Leaves all to his discretion and friendship. 23 Oct.
Hol., draft, p. 1.
23 Oct.
Harl. MS. 416. f. 21. B. M. Records of the Reformation, II. 35. Ellis, 3 Ser. II. 167.
6702. CROKE to [HENRY VIII.]
Since the 28th Aug. has given friar Thomas 23 cr., since which time he hath got the King but seven subscriptions, which Croke sent by Harwell, 19 Oct. Only two of them are worthy thanks. Calls upon him often, but he answers that there are no more doctors to be got, which Croke knows to be untrue. He will give Croke no receipt for 47 cr. he has had from him, fearing it might be showed to the King's adversaries, but says that at the end of the cause he will either make him a bill or return the money. Has found him twice stiffly reasoning on the Queen's side with a Florentine friar, who he always assured Croke was of the King's opinion, but now he says he has become his utter enemy. He told Croke that the Emperor's ambassador said to him, Quod si velit procurare pro regina, merces ejus non staret intra paucula scuta; and he added these words, Crede mihi, Croce, posse me efficere, si velim facere quod alii velint et faciunt, ut quicquid hactenus fecerunt pro rege illi magis obsit quam prosit. This comes of Rhaphael's printed book, of which he has already written. As he can get no more subscriptions either from friar Ambrose or friar Thomas, fear compels him to tell the King that all these friars were first attained by him. Ambrose had, for getting the determination of Padua, 20 cr.; Thomas, 47 cr.; and Francis, for himself and Dionysius, 77 cr. In spite of this, can get nothing from any of them, except Dionysius. Ambrose says that the bishop of London told him to do only what Casale enjoined him. Encloses a copy of letter of Leonicus, mentioning a worse point. Such an order must be prejudicial to the King's cause and to Croke's labor, and also cause the loss of the money which he has laid out upon the friars. If it be true, does not see that he can do any more good in Venice and the parts round. The Bishop knows that his importunate labor has been the principal cause of the success of the King's cause here. Venice, 23 Oct.
Hol., pp. 2.
Vit. B. XIII.
132. B. M.
2. Copy by Croke.
P. 1, mutilated.
23 Oct.
R. O.
6703. HENRY VIII. to JOHN SALISBURY, Seneschal of Denbigh.
To certify the misdemeanors of Robert ap R[ise], clk., John Wyn' Gruff[ith], Richard ap John ap Mad', Rinalt ap Gruff[ith] ap R[ise], Rytherch ap Mered[ith], Hugh ap [Davi]d ap Mered[ith], John Gruff[ith], clk., and about 50 others. Westm., 23 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.
Lat., p. 1.
24 Oct.
R. O.
6704. RECORDS.
Indenture, dated 24 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII., certifying that Thos. Mascy and Clement Whitebred, deputies to the earl of Salop (Shrewsbury) and Sir Harry Guldeford, chamberlains of the Exchequer, have received from Wm. Popley, servant to Sir Thos. More, the following writings:—A commission, subscribed by Charles V., elect emperor of Rome, and sealed, directed to the lady Margaret, dated Barcinona, 30 June 1529; another, signed by him and under his great seal, to Peter Equitis, lord of Rosimbos, his chamberlain, dated Genoa, 29 Aug. same year; a treaty between Charles and Henry, signed and sealed by Charles, with the same date. Signed by Popley.
P. 1.
27 Oct.
Add. 25,114, f. 36. B. M.
Alexander, the courier, arrived on the 3rd, by whom he received a packet from Wellsborn, the King's ambassador in the French court; with it the King's letter to my lord of Worcester, Mr. Gregori, and himself. Also a copy from the French king to the Pope; and his instructions to his ambassador at Rome. The same day cardinal Tarbe took leave of the Pope, who next morning departed to Hostia, before the instruction had reached the French ambassador, much to our discomfort, as he has great authority with the Pope. Consequently the writer and Worcester, on receiving the said copies, resolved to confer with cardinal Tarbe, and communicate their instructions, that in the morning before the Pope's departure he might of himself tell the Pope how he had an inkling that the French king had fully resolved to join with Henry in his great cause, and if the Pope would satisfy Henry, Francis would be greatly obliged; if not, he would take it for an injury, and study to revenge it. Further, the Cardinal was to say that, considering the importance of it, he thought it his duty to urge the Pope to satisfy both Kings, and keep them in devotion to the Holy See; for otherwise he would lose both. De Tarbe did this, as he said, effectuously. The Pope said he thought it was likely, and was sorry he could not remediate it, by satisfying the King's desire; but he would not go beyond the law. On the 5th the French courier arrived, one day before Tarbe had appointed to leave, with a letter commanding him immediately, if he had left, to return, and present his master's letter to the Pope and the instructions contained, with no less diligence than if it touched his own person. On the 8th the Pope returned from Hostia to St. Agatha, at Rome, not being able to reach his palace, "for the great inundation of Tiver, which was so great that it ran through every street in Rome, and in many streets it was above two fathoms deep." On the 10th the water had fallen, so that men might ride in the streets. Then the Cardinal, the bishop of Worcester, conte de Ponte-Rimola, the French ambassador, and the writer went to the Pope to present the French king's letter. The Pope said he perceived by the letter that Francis looked upon this cause as his own, and he would act in it as such, and desired the Pope to grant such expedition as De Tarbe should desire. Hereupon De Tarbe proposed the 1st degree, viz., a commission to my lords of Canterbury, London, and Lincoln. The Pope said that had been asked before, except that another was named instead of the bishop of London. De Tarbe answered it was the bishop of Exeter; but, if the Pope liked, he would take Exeter instead. The Pope said he spake it not for that purpose. De Tarbe said, in his opinion it was a very reasonable petition, considering the extreme age of the Archbishop, his sincerity, good conscience, great learning, and chiefly that he is chief of the Queen's council, more likely to favor the Queen than the King; "your Highness, therefore, axing the cause to be committed to him, declareth to all the world the sincerity of your conscience, and that your trust resteth only in the justice of your cause." He praised the learning of London and Lincoln, and urged reasons why the cause should be committed to them. The Pope replied, he could give no other answer than what he had given already to this petition;—that "as the Queen had alleged the place suspected, he could not commit it thither again without her consent." If she consented, the Pope was ready to do so. They would get no other answer from him.
Tarbe then proceeded to the 2nd degree:—for a commission to the clergy of the province of Canterbury, showing their learning, and that the chiefs of them, Rochester, Ely, Bath, St. Asaph, and many inferior prelates, were of the Queen's council, and had openly defended her cause;—that the Archbishop, who was at the head of the Convocation, was of her council, and therefore the King did not desire it out of any partiality to himself. The Pope answered, this had often been urged before, and he must make the same reply as to the 1st degree. "Then," said Benet, "your Holiness considers nothing but that the Queen hath alleged the place to be suspected;" which, he urged, was not so; nor could the Queen allege in support of her assertion anything but the King's power in his own realm, and it ought to be showed that there was some act of injustice agains the Queen, whereas no man living could show that the King had displayed any displeasure against those who had taken the Queen's part, rather the contrary; and he mentioned the bishop of Durham. That the Pope could not with reason or justice hear the cause at Rome, or commit it to any other place than England, because of the privileges and customs of the realm, which allow no man of the realm to be convented out of it for any cause, and that all appeals to Rome are remitted thither again; and, undoubtedly, the King would not suffer a violation of those prerogatives he was sworn to maintain. The Pope answered, if Benet would allege the same, he should be heard, and have as much as the law allowed. In the end, the Pope said he would do nothing in this matter but what the law allowed, neither for your Highness, the French king, nor the Emperor.
De Tarbe then proceeded to the 3rd degree; viz., if the King should provide a remedy for this great cause, and should follow such means as were approved by learned men and universities in all Christendom, whether the Pope would forbear, directly and indirectly, from molesting him by censures, &c. To this, the Pope said he would consult with his Council. De Tarbe told him it was necessary he should satisfy the King in some of these degrees, or he would see a greater ruin in Christendom than he had seen hitherto. The Pope replied he would be most sorry for that, and would do all he could to prevent it; and if any such ruin did follow, he had liever it should follow for doing his duty than for omitting to do it, and he was unalterably determined to proceed in this matter according to law and justice. He said this in a great fume; but at last asked for a copy of the instructions. The bishop of Tarbe replied, it was not usual to give copies, and he had no special commandment for that purpose. The Pope desired a copy, that he might consult with his Council. De Tarbe said he was willing to read them at any time to his Holiness. On the second day appointed for their answer, the Pope declined one, as they had refused a copy. Then De Tarbe read the instructions and next day cardinal Ancona made answer in the Pope's presence, stating that as the points consisted in law, he spoke as for the Pope;—that if the Pope could persuade the Queen's proctors, then at Rome, to commit the cause as the King desired, it might be done without grieving any party. They replied, if the Queen consented they should have had no need to solicit the Pope. For the 2nd point, he answered we should come to the signature or consistory, and be heard there. They answered they had no such proxy. He replied they might come as orators with a protestation. They answered they had no such command. Then he repeated that as the cause had been committed to Rome by order of the law, it could not be revoked. They said the advocation was made without the King being called to it, and therefore was ineffectual; but without effect. To the 3rd he said the Pope could not refuse the Queen asking process according to law, except he denied her justice, which he would not do in a case of matrimony, being a sacrament of the Church, and affecting the souls of both.
As they could gain nothing in these degrees, they practised with Tarbe for a further delay, urging him to persuade the Pope, and the Emperor's and king of Hungary's ambassadors, alleging the Queen's health, and stating that if any process was made at her suit, the King would be greatly irritated, and expel her from his company. This was urged by Tarbe so effectually that the ambassadors admitted it, but said they did not dare to delay;—they had written to their masters, and expected an answer. The Pope told De Tarbe he could not delay the process without the consent of the adverse party, but, at his urgent request, suspended it for three weeks, in which time an answer will come from the Emperor. This took place on the day Francis, the courier, arrived. On visiting the Pope the next morning, he asked if they had received any instruction from the King, that in case of suspension of process nothing should be attempted against the Queen in England. They answered they had no such commands, but would write. De Tarbe then spake with him a good while apart, as he said, to urge the Pope to a longer delay, but ineffectually. They urged that the time was too short to obtain an answer from England. Two days after, De Tarbe left for France. After his departure they again went to the Pope to urge the custom of England, and that if the Pope sought to examine it after it had been so long established, he would not do well; for how grievous it would be if a man should ask of him the reason why he, being bishop of Rome, should have jurisdiction in all other churches. He said he saw to what end this matter would flow, and he would prove his jurisdiction better than the King could his custom; adding, in a great fume, he would give them no further audience, except in the presence of his Council. Benet urged him to ponder it well; for there was nothing in law so certain but by seeking the reason of it might be made doubtful. He made his usual answer, that if the world fell to ruins he would rather it did so while he was doing his duty. Seeing his displeasure they proceeded no further, knowing that if he is once brought to an obstinacy, he cannot easily be brought from it. Threats and hard words are of no use, unless the King had an army there, like the Emperor.
The Pope will proceed only according to law; and so far will he favor the King. The Pope has committed to Tarbe certain things for the French king touching the King's cause; what they are he will not say. Shortly after Benet's coming there, the Pope spoke to him of a dispensation for two wives, but so doubtfully, that Benet suspects he spoke it for two purposes; one was that he should break it to the King, and see if it would be accepted, "thereby he should have gotten a mean to bring your Highness to grant that if he might dispense in this case, which is of no less force than your case is, consequently he might dispense in your Highness' case." The other was to entertain the King, and defer the cause. Benet asked the Pope whether he was resolved that he could dispense in that case. He said "No;" but he had been told by a great doctor he might, for the avoidance of a greater scandal; but he would advise further with his Council. Lately he has said plainly, that he cannot do it. Will not omit, with Dr. Carne, to make search for those things the King commanded. Urged the King to use his influence with the Nuncio to get the bishop of Worcester made cardinal, as the bishop of Tarbe has left, and there is none of equal authority to promote the King's causes. Rome, 27 Oct.
Hol., pp. 25. Endd. by Wriothesley with date 1530.
27 Oct.
R. O.
Asks him to be good to his friend, Rocwoode, under-marshal of Calais, "in the suits this bearer, his servant, shall sue unto [you] for bringing them to as short conclusion ... as ye may; in your which so doing" he will deserve thanks for helping a poor gentleman, sore charged with wife and children, who has done the King good service. Desires to be recommended to his father Palmer, his gossip, and his other friends. Calais, 27 Oct. Signed.
P. 1. Add.
31 Oct.
R. O.
Ordnance lacking between the vie[w] taken by Simon Dygby and John Redyng, 13 Hen. VIII., and that by Sir Ric. Cholmeley, Sir Sampson Norton, and Oliver Turnour, 31 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII., in the Tower of London.
Pp. 11, mutilated by damp.
R. O.
6708. ROBBERY.
Examination of James Bagge, at the Lord Treasurer's chamber at Westminster, Mich. term, 22 Hen. VIII.
Deposes that John Chace, jun., of Exminster, was robbed about two years ago, at Christmas time, at Exminster town end, and, from the dress and horse of the robber, suspected that it was James Ferrour, servant to Sir Giles Straungwysshe. Being near kinsman to Ferrour, went with one Snow to him at Evershot. He finally confessed, and gave Bagge 3l., which Bagge gave to a priest in confession, to be redelivered to Chace.
Ferrour, examined by the Council, confessed to the robbery, as above.
Signed by T. Nevyle, William Fitzwilliam, Edmund Walsingham, and Thomas Lucas.
P. 1.
Oct./GRANTS. 6709. GRANTS in OCTOBER 1530.
1. Thos. earl of Wiltshire and Ormond. Licence, on account of his services about the King's person, to absent himself from Ireland, notwithstanding the statute against absentees. Hampton Court, 24 Sept. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 1 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 22.
1. John Broune and Etheldred his wife. Licence to alienate a third part of the manor of Hardewyke, Northt., to Humph. Broune, serjeant-at-law, Philip Parys, Thomas Dalyson, clk., John Huntyngdon, Leonard Leventhorp, and Ric. Lyndesell, to hold to them and the heirs of the said Philip for ever. Westm., 1 Oct.—Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 9.
7. Jas. ap Griffith ap Howell.—Warrant addressed to Walter lord Ferrers, as justice in South Wales, to apprehend Jas. ap Griffyth ap Howell, who has fortified himself in the castle of Emlyn, South Wales. Del. Westm., 7 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.—S.B.
10. Staple of Bristol. Assent to the election of Thos. White as mayor, and John Shipman and John Hutton as constables, of the staple of wools, hides, fleeces, and lead at Bristol.—Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 2, m. 8.
10. Alice Symonds, of Barstable, Devon. Reversal of outlawry, having been sued for debt, in the Common Pleas, by Christina Monke, of Westminster. Westm., 10 Oct.—Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 8.
10. Sebastian Salvagio, Genoese. Licence to export 1,000 quarters of beans. Ampthill, 2 Sept. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 10 Oct.—P.S.
11. Ralph Warner, of Dedham, Essex, clothmaker. Protection; going in the retinue of Sir Robt. Wingfield, deputy general of Calais. Calais. Signed by Wingfield. Endd.: Hampton Court, 11 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.—P.S. writ.
11. Wm. Smyth of London, draper. Protection; going in the retinue of Sir Robt. Wingfield, deputy general of Calais. Calais. Signed by Wingfield. Endd.: Hampton Court, 11 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.—P.S. writ.
12. John Joachin de Passano, lord de Vaulx. Licence to export 1,000 quarters of beans, 1,000 quarters of oats, and 200 quarters of pease. Hampton Court, 12 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. same day.—P.S. Enrolled on the French Roll.
13. John Tomson, native of Laneland, alias a native of Germany, beer-brewer. Denization. Chertsey, 3 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 13 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 13.
14. Hen. Clarke of Sowthehampton, merchant alias waterman. Protection; going in the retinue of Sir Robt. Wingfield, deputy general of Calais. Waltham Abbey, 20 Sept. 22 Hen. VIII. "Teste," 14 Oct.—P.S.
15. Sir Anthony Fitzherbert and Thos. Englefield. Writ of error in a suit for debt between John Huse, chamberlain of London, and Robt. Bayley, mercer, London. Westm., 15 Oct.—Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 4d.
15. John Aras, clk. Presentation to the parish church of Stokegoldington, Linc. dioc., vice Ric. Birdsall, resigned. Hampton Court, 13 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 15 Oct.—P.S.
16. John Hardwike, tailor, of London. Protection; going in the retinue of Sir Robt. Wingfeld. Hampton Court, 16 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.—P.S.
17. Wm. Carter, clothmaker, of London. Protection; going in the retinue of Sir Robt. Wingfield, deputy of Calais. Hampton Court, 17 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII.—P.S.
17. Rouland Ruggeley, page of the Wardrobe of Beds. To be beadle of Dene forest, Glouc., and doorward of St. Briavel's castle, in the said forest, with the usual fees, vice Thos. Garton, deceased. Hampton Court, 7 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 17 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 13.
17. Thos. Alforde and Wm. Hale. Grant, in survivorship, of the office of spigurnel or sealer in Chancery; on surrender of patent 30 Sept. 13 Hen. VIII., granting the same to Alforde alone. Hampton Court, 10 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 17 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 18.
17. Thos. Alverd, gentleman usher of the Chamber. To be keeper of the King's garden and orchard near Yorke Place, in Westminster, with 6d. a day. Hampton Court, 6 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 17 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 18.
17. Robt. Litle, groom of the Wardrobe of Beds. Custody of the forest of Pamber, Hants, vice Thos. Garton. Hampton Court, 7 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 17 Oct.—P.S.
17. Ric. Biawoir, chaplain, of Normandy. Denization. Hampton Court, 2 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 17 Oct.—P.S.
18. Margaret lady Grey, servant to queen Katharine. Annuity of 20l. Hampton Court, 17 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 18 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 31.
19. Wm. Jenkyn, clk. Presentation to the parish church of St. Petrocius, in the lordship of Stakpole, St. David's dioc., vice Lewis Rede, deceased. Hampton Court, 12 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 19 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 13.
24. John Frebody. To be keeper and bearer of the books, rolls, appeals, and other memoranda in the receipt of Exchequer, in the same manner as Wm. Gilbert held the said office. Hampton Court, 19 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 24 Oct.—P.S. Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 7.
24. Leonard Hutchinson, S.T.P. Presentation to the parish church of Croughton, Linc. dioc., in the King's gift by the minority of Eliz. d. and h. of Thos. Ramsey, deceased. Hampton Court, 23 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 24 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 7.
25. Hugh, s. and h. of Morgan Hollande, deceased. Grant of all lands and tenements which John ap Howell Holland formerly held in the vill of Rethelyn, in the commote of Ughdulas, in the lordship of Denby, N. Wales, not exceeding the annual value of 60s. Hampton Court, 20 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 25 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 22.
25. Hugh Howell of London,"kalandyer," alias "pouchyng maker," alias founder. Licence to keep two "covenant servants," strangers and aliens of whatsoever nation, besides the two alien servants allowed by statute 14 & 15 Hen. VIII. (cap. 2), notwithstanding the said statute, and an order of the Star Chamber, 20 Feb. 20 Hen. VIII., commanding the enforcement of the same, upon a bill of complaint by the artificers of London, and likewise an Act of Parliament 21 Hen. VIII. (cap. 16), confirmatory of the previous act and order. Guildford, 27 July 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 25 Oct.—P.S. Pat. 22 Hen. VIII. p. 1, m. 30.
25. Sir John Gage. Grant, in tail male, of the manor of Stewton, Linc., &c. as inrolled under date 23 June 1530;—which see. Hampton Court, 15 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 25 Oct.—P.S. (mutilated and defaced).
27. Stephen Garard, the King's chaplain. Grant of the perpetual chantry in the parish church of Flamsted, Herts, of the annual value of 7 marks, vice Chris. Wentworth, resigned. Hampton Court, 14 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 27 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 27.
28. John Myre and George his son. Grant, in survivorship, of the office of clerk of the courts in Inglewood forest, called "le Foster Mutes," with the usual fees; on surrender of pat. 5 Mar. 5 Hen. VIII. granting the said office to John alone. Hampton Court, 25 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 28 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 6.
28. Thos. Badcok. Licence to export every year 40 qrs. of wheat, 15 qrs. of beans or oats, 6 qrs. of peason, and 40 doz. tallow candles. Chertsey abbey, 6 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 28 Oct.—P.S.
29. John Tyrell, of Little Warley, Essex, sen. Exemption from serving as sheriff or escheator, or on juries, &c. Hampton Court, 16 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 29 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 2, m. 18.
29. Peter Egerton. To be bailiff of the hundred of Bulkeley, Cheshire. Hampton Court, 16 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 29 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 8.
29. Sir Wm. Fitzwylliam, of Mylton, Northt. Exemption from serving on juries, and from being made sheriff or escheator, &c. Greenwich, 27 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 29 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 8.
29. Ric. Manchester, clk. Presentation to the free-chapel of St. Blaise, within the manor of Sutton Colfeld, Warw. Hampton Court, 26 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 29 Oct.—P.S.
29. John Newman, clk., M, A. Presentation to the parish church of Wytham, London dioc., void by death, and at the King's disposal by the temporalities of the see of London having lately been in the King's hands. Greenwich, 28 Oct. 22 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 29 Oct.—P.S. Pat. p. 1, m. 30.


  • 1. "Farba" in transcript.