Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 11, 1660-1666. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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In this section
- DIE Mercurii, 14 die Maii.
- Report of the Conference concerning the Bill for Money for Officers who served the King during the late Troubles.
DIE Mercurii, 14 die Maii.
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:
Le Pla & al. Nat. Bill.
The Lord Ashley reported, "That the Committee have considered of the Bill for naturalizing Mark Le Pla and others, as fit to pass as it is, without any Amendments."
Hodie 3 a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for the Naturalization of Mark Le Pla and others."
The Question being put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Bill to provide Carriages for the Navy and Ordnance.
Hodie 1 a et 2 a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act for providing Carriages, by Land and by Water, for the Use of His Majesty's Navy and Ordnance."
ORDERED, That the Consideration of this Bill is committed to these Lords following:
Their Lordships, or any Five; to meet To-morrow Morning, at Eight of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings.
Message to H.C. about a Conference on the Norwich Stuffs Bill.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Childe and Sir Moundeford Brampston:
To let them know, that, according to their Desire Yesterday, their Lordships are ready to give them a Conference, concerning the Bill for regulating the making of Norwich Stuffs; and do appoint the same to be presently, in the Painted Chamber.
The Lord Wharton reported from the Committee, the Bill for mending the Common Highways, with certain Alterations and Provisos; which were read Twice.
And, upon Debate of that Clause concerning the Penalty, the House directed the Penalty to be distributed, Twenty Shillings to the Use of the Poor, and Twenty Shillings towards the amending of the Highways.
And the Lord Wharton and the Lord Mohun were appointed presently to withdraw, and mend the said Clause according to the Direction of the House.
Then the Proviso for exempting the County of Cornwall was read, and ordered to be rejected.
Also the Proviso concerning the Peers was considered.
And the Question being put, "Whether this Proviso, to exempt the Peers and the Clergy out of this Bill, shall be left out ?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Then the Question was put, "Whether the Proviso for One Parish to help (fn. 1) one another shall be inserted into the Bill?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
The Lord Wharton reported the (fn. 1) amending in the Clause concerning the disposing of the Penalties; which were read, and Agreed to.
The Earl of Portland, Earl of Anglesey, and the Lord Ashley, were appointed to report this Conference with the House of Commons.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.
Report of the Conference concerning the Norwich Stuffs Bill.
The Earl of Anglesey reported the Effect of the aforesaid Conference: "That the House of Commons agrees to all the Amendments which their Lordships made in the Bill concerning the regulating the making of Norwich Stuffs; only they have added a Saving on the King's Behalf, to preserve His Title of Aulnage and Customs for the Sealing of Stuffs; to which they desire their Lordships Concurrence." The which Saving being read Thrice, was Agreed to.
Heads for a Conference concerning the Militia Bill.
Next, the Duke of Bucks reported, "That the Committee have considered of some Reasons to be offered at the Conference with the House of Commons, why their Lordships do think fit to leave out the Word ["Lord"] in the Bill for the Militia:
"1. That their Lordships do not conceive that from the adding the Word ["Lords"], there be any natural Influence of abridging the King's Power; nor of giving any Exclusion to Commoners from being Lord Lieutenants, since the same Title is given to many Officers; as Lord Chancellors, Lord Chief Justice, Lord President, and the like, who most commonly are Commoners: That their Lordships thought the Word ["Lord"] sitted to be added for the Dignity of so great a Military Command, since it was admitted even in many Dignities inferior to it, both Civil and Military; Lords Lieutenants being in Effect His Majesty's Generals. Now Generals are always called Lords Generals.
That, though there were no Precedent for it, yet the Reason alone might serve to require it. But there is the Example in divers Acts, and particularly in the Petition of Right, where they are named Lord Lieutenants.
But the powerfulest Motive with their Lordships to the putting in this Word ["Lords"] was, that of Respect to those Commoners, who, by their Merit and His Majesty's Grace, should arrive to so great and honourable Employment, and be dignified in it also by this Title of Lord; which indeed is the Concernment of the Commoners, and not the Peers, whose Birth in what Place soever they are do adorn them with that Title: But, since the Commons have not been pleased to understand this Design of their Lordships to their Advantage, their Lordships do not insist to press upon them a Respect not understood as they wisht it might have been; and do content themselves by agreeing with them, against their own Reasons, to shew their true Desires of complying with them in every Thing that possibly they may, without wounding deeply their most essential Privileges."
His Grace further reported several other small Alterations; which were all Agreed to by the House, and ordered to be communicated to the House of Commons at a Free Conference.
Message to H.C. for this Conference.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir William Chylde and Sir Nathaniell Hobart:
To desire a present Free Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Bill for settling the Forces of this Kingdom.
The same Committee of Lords as were appointed Yesterday to prepare the aforesaid Reasons are appointed now to manage this Free Conference with the House of Commons.
Report of the Conference concerning the Bill for Money for Officers who served the King during the late Troubles.
The Lord Mohun reported the Effect of the late Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the Amendments to the Bill concerning the Distribution of Threescore Thousand Pounds to the truly indigent and loyal Commissioned Officers:
"And the Commons do adhere to the Title of ["Right Honourable"] given to Sir Hugh Pollard; and they do agree to the Amendments in the other Titles of Foreign Nobility, named as Commissioners in that Act.
"But to the First Part of the Proviso concerning Peers to be assessed for their Offices by Peers, the Commons do not agree."
Hereupon the Lords agreed to the leaving out that First of the Proviso; and Resolved, That the naming of the Commissioners for rating the Peers Offices should be left to the King, to name the Commissioners, being Peers, within a Month. And the Earl of Portland and the Lord Mohun were appointed to withdraw presently, and prepare a Proviso to this Purpose. To all the rest of the Particulars, the Lords do concur with the House of Commons.
The Earl of Portland reported a Draught of the said Proviso; which, being read, was Agreed to, and ordered to be communicated to the House of Commons for their Concurrence therein.
The Messengers return with this Answer:
Answer from H. C.
That the House of Commons will give a present Free Conference, as is desired.
Bill to prevent Stoppages in the Streets of Westm.
The Lord Wharton reported from the Committee, the Bill against Stoppage of the Streets by Carts, as fit to pass, with some Alterations and Provisos; which being read Twice, the House ordered the Provisos to be rejected, but ordered the Bill to be engrossed.
Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, 15um diem instantis Maii, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.