House of Lords Journal Volume 12: 23 November 1667

Pages 145-146

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 12, 1666-1675. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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Page 145
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DIE Sabbati, 23 die Novembris.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

Epus.St. David's.
Epus.Litch. et Cov.
Epus.St. Asaph.
Sir Orlando Bridgman, Miles et Bar. Ds. Custos Magni Sigilli.
Dux Cumberland.
RobertusComesLyndsey, Magnus CamerariusAngliæ.
EdwardusComesManchester, Camerarius Hospitii.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Aylsebury.
Comes Burlington.
Vicecomes Mountagu.
Vicecomes Say & Seale.
Vicecomes Conway.
Vicecomes Mordant.
Ds. Arlington, One of the Principal Secretaries of State.
Ds. Berkeley de Berk.
Ds. Sandys.
Ds. Windsor.
Ds. Eure.
Ds. Paget.
Ds. North.
Ds. Chandos.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Arundell de Warder.
Ds. Howard de Charlt.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard de Esc.
Ds. Powis.
Ds. Newport.
Ds. Byron.
Ds. Vaughan.
Ds. Ward.
Ds. Lucas.
Ds. Bellasis.
Ds. Rockingham.
Ds. Gerard de Brand.
Ds. Holles.
Ds. Cornwallis.
Ds. Delamer.
Ds. Ashley.
Ds. Arundell de Trerice.


Heads for a Conference about the Commons desiring a Conference, when previously desired by the Lords on the same Subject.

The Lord Chamberlain reported the Reasons prepared by the Committee to fortify the Resolves of this House made Yesterday.

Which Reasons were read, as follows:

"Reasons of the First Resolve:

"First, The House of Lords have no Way of communicating their Consent or Dissent to the House of Commons, but by Conference or Message, either of which they may use as they think fit.

"2dly, Without this Liberty, there can be no Prevention (or deciding) of Differences in Opinion between the Two Houses, for preserving a fair Correspondence.

"3dly, There appears no Precedent in Parliament of the like Proceeding from the House of Commons towards the Lords.

"4thly, It was very unequal for the House of Commons to desire or expect that from the House of Lords, which they declined the granting them.

"5thly, For aught known to the House of Commons, the Conference desired might be to consent to their Desires; and therefore, upon meer Apprehension of the contrary, it is not proper for the House of Commons to wave a Conference with the Lords.

"Reasons of the Second Resolve.

"1st. After Reasons given by the House of Commons against an Answer of their Lordships to the Desires of that House, the constant Practice in Parliament hath been, either to declare Agreement and Consent by Conference or Message, or to offer Reasons to balance or answer the Reasons of the House of Commons, in order to a Free Conference if desired; or, in Cases not admitting a Free Conference, to deliver a positive Resolution.

"2dly, There being no standing Rule when a Free Conference is to be desired, it cannot be unparliamentary at any Time not to desire it; but that House which finds Occasion for it, may desire the same.

"3dly, The Proceedings of the Lords stand justified by constant former Practice.

"4thly, Without this Liberty in either House, it would be in the Power of either House to bring the other to a Free Conference at great Inequality, and before the Subject-matter were ripe for it.

"5thly, Upon any Nicety or Advantage that might be taken in Circumstances, the Lords have never nor will refuse a Free Conference, where the Matter is capable of it."

These Reasons being approved of, the House resolved, they should be offered, with the Two Resolves, to the House of Commons, at a Conference.

Message to H. C. for a Conference.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Justinian Lewin and Sir William Glascock:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject-matter of the last Conference.

E. North'ton's Privilege. French & al. to make their Acknowledgements to him for arresting Capes his Servant;

This Day Richard French, and Richard Gibbons, and Robert Barret, were brought to the Bar of this House, and charged with their Offence, of arresting Arthur Capes, Servant to the Earl of North'ton, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament.

They confessed, "That, they being assigned by the Under Sheriffs special Bailiffs, they did arrest the said Arthur Capes, the 10th of October last, at the Suit of Sir Peter Wentworth; but did not know the said Capes to be Servant to the Earl of North'ton."

Sir Peter Wentworth sent for about it.

Hereupon the House ORDERED, That the said French, Gibbons, and Barrett, shall make their Acknowledgment of their Offences to the Earl of North'ton; and then this House will take their Releasement into Consideration: It is further ORDERED, That Sir Peter Wentworth shall be summoned to attend this House on Monday Morning next, at Ten of the Clock.

Prizing Wines Bill.

ORDERED, That the Committee for the Bill concerning Prizing of Wines do meet on Wednesday next, in the Afternoon.

Bill for taxing the Fens.

ORDERED, That the Bill concerning taxing the Fens shall be read the Second Time on Monday Morning next.

Answer from H. C.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons with the Message return with this Answer:

That the House of Commons will give a Conference, as is desired.

The same Lords are appointed to manage this Conference, as prepared the Reasons for it.

Conference about Conferences being demanded by the Houses.

Then the House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

The Earl of Anglesey gave the House an Account, That he and the rest of the Lords that were appointed to manage this Conference have performed their Lordships Commands, in acquainting the House of Commons with the Two Resolves, and the Reasons thereupon."

Mangy, D. of Bucks' Servant, in the King's Bench, a Habeas Corpus.

Whereas, upon an Order of this House, dated the 21th of November, Instant, directed to the Keeper of the King's Bench Prison, for the Discharge of George Mangy, menial Servant to the Duke of Bucks, a Peer of this Realm, being under Restraint in the said Prison, occasioned by his being arrested, in the Beginning of November, 1665, within the Time of Privilege of Parliament contrary to the Privilege of Parliament, Sir John Lenthall Knight, Marshal of the said Prison, hath, by his Petition, shewed to this House, "That the said George Mangy is since charged with several great Actions and Executions, to the Satisfaction whereof the said Sir John Lenthall is liable, as he is informed; and therefore prays that he may be indemnified in such Manner as this House shall think meet:"

It is thereupon ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That His Majesty's Writ of Habeas Corpus cum Causa be awarded, and directed to the Marshal of the King's Bench Prison, commanding him to bring the Body of the said George Mangy before the Lords in Parliament, on Friday the Twentyninth Day of this Instant November, at Ten of the Clock in the Morning.

Order to accommodate the Lords sitting in the Painted Chamber at Conference s.

ORDERED, That it be referred to the Committee for Privileges, to consider of some Way how the Lords of this House may be better accommodated in their Sitting in the Painted Chamber than formerly, during the Times of Conferences with the House of Commons; and to report to the House what they shall think fit to be done therein.



Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Lunæ, 25um diem instantis Novembris, hora decima Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Hitherto examined by us,

J. Bridgewater.
Jo. Duresme.
Joh. Roffen.