House of Lords Journal Volume 13: 20 December 1678

DIE Veneris, 20 die Decembris.

REX.

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas sat Speaker this Day, in the Absence of the Lord Chancellor.

E. Rutland excused.

Francis Pack and Edward Remington, Servants of the Earl of Rutland, deposed upon Oath, at the Bar, "That his Lordship is so lame, that he is not able to go or stand; and therefore they think him not able to give his Attendance on this House, without Danger of his Life."

Which the House allowed of.

Supply Bill, for disbanding Forces from Abroad.

The House was put into a Committee, to proceed in the Consideration of the Bill for granting a Supply to His Majesty, for disbanding the Army.

The House being resumed;

The Earl of Aylesbury reported, "That the Committee have considered the said Bill, and have made several Amendments and Alterations therein, which are offered to the Consideration of the House."

The Alterations were read Twice; and an Alteration was offered to the Clause concerning the Officers and Soldiers disbanding after their being paid; which, being read, was Agreed to, with the Addition of the Penalties mentioned in the Bill.

The Amendments were these:

"6 Skin, 30 Line, The Clause beginning ["And be it enacted"] to be left out, to the Word ["and"] in the 1st Line of the 7th Skin.

"7 Skin, 2 L. & 3d, Instead of ["every"], read ["the"]; and after ["Receiver General"], insert ["to be appointed by His Majesty"].

"23 L. Instead of ["Gerall"], read "[General"].

"8 Skin, 12 L. After ["into"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the First ["and"] in the 16 Line; and instead thereof read ["the Receipt of His Majesty's Exchequer"].

"9 Skin, 10 L. After ["received"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Word ["and"] in the 14th Line, and instead thereof read ["to the Receipt of His Majesty's Exchequer"].

"14 L. Instead of ["said Chamberlain"], read ["Lord Treasurer"].

"23 & 24 L. Instead of ["the said Office of the Chamberlain"], read ["the King's Remembrancer's Office in the Exchequer"].

"10 Skin, 34 L. After ["aforesaid"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Words ["the several"] in the 3d Line of the 11th Skin.

"11 Skin, 22 L. Leave out ["Chamberlain and of the"].

"23 L. Instead of ["either of their"], read ["his"].

"12 Skin, 6 L. Instead of ["Office of the Chamberlain of London"], read ["Receipt of His Majesty's Exchequer"].

"7 L. After ["have"], insert ["a Tally of Loan for the same and"].

"12 L. After ["Principal"], leave out the Words in the Bill to ["and"] in the 35th Line.

"13 Skin, 4 L. Instead of ["Warrants"], read ["Bills or Notes"].

"11 L. Instead of the First ["Orders"], read ["Talley respectively"].

"17 L. After ["their"], instead of ["Orders"], read ["Tallies"].

"14 Skin, 5 & 6 L. Leave out ["the Chamberlain of London his"], and instead thereof insert ["any of Your Majesty's Officer or Officers their"].

"8 L. Instead of ["Chamberlain"], read ["Officer"].

"10 & 11 L. Leave out ["Chamberlain by himself, or any Person by him thereunto deputed"], and instead thereof insert ["Lord Treasurer"].

"20 L. Instead of ["Chamberlain he"], read ["Officer or Officers then they"].

"23 L. After ["his"], add ["or their"].

"28 L. After ["Office"], add these Words ["And in case the Auditor shall not direct the Order; or the Clerk of the Pells record, or the Teller make Payment, according to each Person's due Place and Order, as afore directed, then he or they shall be adjudged to forfeit; and their respective Deputies and Clerks herein offending shall be liable to such Action, Debt, Damages, and Costs, in Manner as in this Act are expressed"].

"29 L. Instead of ["Chamberlain"], read ["Officers of the Exchequer"].

"30 L. Instead of ["his"], read ["their"].

"15 Skin, 1 L. Instead of ["Orders"], read ["Tallies].

"6 L. Instead of ["Chamberlain"], insert ["Anditor direct, and the Clerk of the Pells record, and the Tellers do"].

"25 L. Instead of ["Chamberlain"], read ["Auditor of the Receipt aforesaid"].

"16 Skin, 21 L. Instead of ["Chamber of London"], read ["Receipt of His Majesty's Exchequer"].

"26 L. For ["dispanded"], read ["disbanded"].

"17 Skin, 15 & 16 L. Instead of ["the Chamber of London"], read ["His Majesty's Exchequer"].

"18 Skin, 23 L. After ["Dunbarton"], add ["of the Kingdom of Scotland"]; and after ["Morpeth"] add ["Eldest Son and Heir apparent of Charles Earl of Carlile"]; and after ["Allington"], add ["of the Kingdom of Ireland"].

"24 L. After ["Douglas"], add ["One of the Sons of Marquis Douglas of the Kingdom of Scotland"].

"28 L. After ["Obrien"], add ["late Eldest Son of the Earl of Thomond in the Kingdom of Ireland"].

"20 Skin, 16 L. After ["Morpeth"], add ["aforesaid"].

"22 L. Before ["the Company"], insert ["so many of"].

"23 L. After ["Pendennis"], add ["as were raised by Way of Recruits since the 29th of September, 1677"].

"26 L. After ["Portsmouth"], insert ["so many of"].

"27 L. After ["Plymouth"], "as were raised by Way of Recruits since the 29th of Sept. 1677"].

"21 Skin, 18 L. Leave out ["Colonel"], and after ["Birch"] insert ["Esquire"].

"22 Skin, 18 L. Instead of ["Warrants"], read ["Bills or Notes"]; and before ["Treasurer"], insert ["said Lord"].

"23 Skin, 4 L. Instead of ["Warrants"], read ["Bills or Notes"]; and before ["Treasurer"], insert ["said Lord"].

"24 Skin, 8 L. Instead of ["Warrant or Warrants"], read ["Bill or Note, Bills or Notes"]; and before ["Treasurer"], add ["said Lord"]; and leave out ["or his Deputy, for the paying any of the Forces now to be disbanded"].

"18 L. The Clause beginning ["That"] to be left out, to the Beginning of the 24th Line.

"25 Skin, 29 L. Leave out ["Colonel"], and after ["Birch"] add ["Esquire"].

"34 L. Before ["Treasurer"], add ["said Lord"]; and after ["Treasurer"], leave out ["or his Deputy, for the aforesaid Money"].

"36 L. After ["accordingly"], leave out the Words in the Bill to ["that"] in the 6th Line of the 26th Skin.

"26 Skin, 16 L. After ["That"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Words ["he or they"] in the 28 Line; and instead thereof read these Words ["upon Payment, the respective Officers and Soldiers shall be immediately disbanded, and all Commissions of such Officers are thereupon hereby declared to be void and of no Effect; and that, upon Payment as aforesaid, the said Officers and Soldiers are hereby required immediately in a peaceable Manner to disperse, not going together above Ten in a Company, and that in a private Way, without any Arms save Swords only; and if any Person or Persons shall offend contrary hereunto"].

"39 L. After the Words ["to his own Use"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Word ["And"] in the 3d Line of the 27th Skin.

"27 Skin, 3 L. After ["And"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Word ["be"] in the 13 Line.

"14 L. Leave out ["such"].

"15 L. After ["Soldiers"], add ["whatsoever"]; and after ["them"], add ["and all other Persons"].

"18 L. After ["Offences"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the Word ["and"] in the 21th Line; and instead thereof read these Words ["had, made, committed, done, or suffered by them, or any of them, relating to the disbanding of the Army, contrary to an Act made in the 30th Year of His Majesty's Reign, intituled, An Act for granting a Supply to His Majesty, of Six Hundred Nineteen Thousand Three Hundred Eighty-eight Pounds, Eleven Shillings, and Nine Pence, for disbanding the Army, and other Uses therein mentioned"].

"21th L. After ["Soldiers"], add ["or other Persons"].

"23 L. After ["for"], instead of ["any Thing by them done, or executed, contrary to the last recited Act"], read ["or by reason of the same"].

"24th L. After ["such"], add ["respective"].

"26 L. After ["Act"], leave out the Words in the Bill to the last ["And"] in the 30th Line."

Protest against the Amendments to it.

The Question being put, "Whether to agree with the Committee in these Amendments, with this Addition?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Dissentientibus,

Buckingham.
Winchester.
Leycester.
Kent.
Essex.
"Shaftesbury.
Clare. Grey.
Bedford.
Halifax.
T. Leigh.
C. Cornwallis.
"Delamer.
P. Wharton.
Grey Werke.
"Howard.
J. Lovelace.
Poulett.
Chandos.
Holles.
Rockingham."

ORDERED, That the Bill for granting to His Majesty a Supply, for disbanding the Army, be read the Third Time To-morrow Morning, the First Business.

Whitaker to be brought to the Bar.

Upon reading the Petition of Edward Whitaker, now a Prisoner in Newgate, submitting himself to the Judgement of this House, and begging Pardon, and praying his Enlargement:

It is thereupon ORDERED, That the Keeper of Newgate do bring the said Edward Whitaker to the Bar of this House To-morrow, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon: And this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To the Keeper of Newgate, his Deputy and Deputies, and every of them.

Stannion's Petition, against E. North'ton's Protection to Robinson, dismissed.

Whereas, upon the Petition of John Stannion and others (presented to this House on the 16th Instant), complaining of a Protection granted by the Earl of Northampton to John Robinson, an Attorney or Clerk of the Court of Common Pleas (as in the Petition is alledged), and praying, "That they may proceed in the Courts in Westminster Hall against the said John Robinson," it was left to the Petitioners to make their humble Application to the Earl of Northampton concerning this Matter:

It appearing this Day, that the said John Robinson is not an Attorney of the said Court of Common Pleas, but a Servant to the Earl of North'ton, and thereby ought to enjoy the Privilege of Parliament due to the said Earl and his Servants; it is thereupon ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Petition of John Stannion and others be, and is hereby, dismissed.

Maccarty, a Priest, to be examined by Lords Committees.

Whereas Daniell Maccarty, a Romish Priest, was, by Order of the 29th of November last, brought from the Gaol at Thetford, in the County of Norfolke, by the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, and is now in his Custody here:

It is this Day ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Lords Committees for examining Persons and Papers for Discovery of the horrid Design against His Majesty's Person and Government shall examine the said Daniell Maccarty; and if their Lordships find that he is not charged with any Particulars relating to the said Design, he is to be remitted and left to the Law; but if otherwise, their Lordships are to report to the House what they find concerning him.

Thorne to attend To-morrow.

ORDERED, That Henry Thorne, who was Yesterday examined before the Lords Committees, be, and is hereby, required to attend this House To-morrow, at Ten of the Clock in the Forenoon.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees for Examinations, an Examination of Henry Thorne; which was read, as followeth:

"The Examination of Henry Thorne, of Ipswich, in Suffolk, taken upon Oath, the 19th Day of December, 1678, before the Lord Chief Justice of England.

H. Thorne's Examination, about Arms in Tasbrough's House in Suff. and Men exercising there, &c.

"This Examinant faith, That, the Day before St. George's Day last, he went from Capell; and on St. George's Day in the Evening he came to Mr. Tesbrough's House, called Flixen Hall, to see his Brother Thomas Thorne, then Butler to the said Mr. Tesbrough; and, at his coming thither, he met with the said Mr. Tesbrough, who bid him go into the Kitchen, where his Brother came to him, who carried this Deponent into the Pantry; where he told him, that his Master asked him, "What the Devil he came for?" But his Brother answered his said Master, "That he came to see him, not having heard from him since his Mother and he were there." Whereupon his Master replied, "What the Devil in Hell comes he for? for he was sure he comes for no Good." This Deponent further faith, That his said Brother charged him, not to go to Supper with the Servants; whereupon he locked him in the Pantry, where he kept him Two or Three Hours; and after he came to him again, told him, "He would have him to a House, where he should have Bacon and Eggs;" and then carried him to Mr. Manclark's House, a Mile and Half from the said Mr. Tesbrough; where he lodged that Night, and the next Morning brought him back to the said Mr. Tesbrough's, and gave him cold Meat to eat; and after that had the Deponent into the Pantry, and fetched him a Pot of Beer, and bid him "stay there, while he went to rowl a Back Yard, and he would come to the Deponent again." But his Brother going into the said Back Yard, the Deponent followed him: His said Brother bid him, "for the LORD'S Sake, not come in here; for, if his Master saw him, he would be ready to kill him his said Brother." Whereupon the Deponent desired to come in, to look into the brave Rooms. His Brother replied, "That nobody comes into that Yard, in a Twelvemonth, except their own Company." But, when his Brother's Back was turned, to rowl the said Yard, the Deponent looked in at some Windows, where he saw nothing; but, going to another Part of the said Yard, to look into another Window, his Brother called to him, "for the LORD'S Sake, not to go that Way; for, if his Master should see him, his (the Deponent's Brother's) Life would not be worth a Farthing." But, notwithstanding this, when his Brother's Back was again turned, the Deponent looked into a Room on that Side of the Yard, where he saw, as near as he can guess, about the Number of Four or Five Hundred Muskets and Pistols, very bright, their Muzzles stopt with Paper, and a great Number of Swords and Belts fringed with Blue, and Bandoleers agreeable, as he thought, to the Number of the Muskets. He saw there likewise a Chest open, made with Deal Boards, about a Yard and Half long, and a Yard over, full of new-made Bullets. He further faith, That his Brother, perceiving what the Deponent had seen, said, "for the LORD'S Sake, do not speak a Word of what he had seen; for, if you do, my Life is not worth a Farthing." Whereupon his Brother had him into the Pantry, where they drank together; and afterwards his Brother went about Three Miles on the Way Home with him, where, discoursing upon the Way, this Deponent asked him, "What is the Intent of those Muskets and Pistols?" But he told him, "He must not tell, unless he would promise not to tell again." And the Deponent promising not to tell, his said Brother told him, "That he carried him away last Night, because there were Soldiers to be exercised there that Night." Then the Deponent asking him, "What do you do exercising?" He replied, "He must not tell him; but I would have you know, that we spend more Beef, besides small Meat, in our House, than you do in all your Town." And, after some other Words, he told the Deponent, "That they spent Two or Three and Twenty Score Pound of Beef, at least, a Week;" and thereupon he gave the Deponent a Shilling, and bid him say nothing of what he had seen or heard. Then the Deponent asking his Brother again, "What their Intent was by those Arms?" He answered, "That there is but One God; and there should be but One King, and One Religion; and him that you call our Pope, we hope shall be our King before Michaelmas Day." Whereupon, clapping his Hands together, he said, "He was sworn to be true to their Religion (he being a Papist); and these Hands of his must help to cut off the King's Head, and to cut Him into Four Quarters." Whereupon they parted. And the Deponent, being troubled in Mind, related within Two or Three Days after to several People what he had seen and heard, except what relates to the Murder of the King; and he desired his Neighbours to whom he related it, that they would have him before a Justice of Peace, to be examined.

"The Mark of (†) Henry Thorne."

Capt. & jurat. 19 Decemb. 1678, coram me,

Will. Scroggs.

and Withipoll's.

"John Withipoll, of Topcraft, in the County of Norff, Gentleman, maketh Oath, That, in August last past, being hawking in the Park of Richard Tasborowe of Flixon, in the County of Suff. Esquire, and not far from the Mansion House of him the said Richard, situate in the aforesaid Park, in Flixon aforesaid, he this Deponent did see a Waggon, tilted over with White Cloth, standing just by the Stairs leading to the aforesaid Mansion of the said Richard; out of which said Waggon a certain Person, to this Deponent unknown, delivered to certain Gentlemen then and there present (whose Names this Deponent knoweth not) about Seven or Eight Muskets or Carbines, Five or Six Gorgets, Six or Seven Back and Breast Plates coupled together, and a Bunch of Javelins or Leaders Staves bound together, and wrapt up, so that this Deponent could not tell how many there was of them: And further this Deponent faith, That, he riding up nearer to the said Waggon, One of the Gentlemen then and there present, then first seeing him this Deponent (as he verily believeth), sware "God damn me, what Son of a Whore is youder?" and said, "That he would shoot this Deponent." And thereupon he, being in Fear, did ride away, and did not see the said Waggon fully unloaden. And further this Deponent faith, That he spoke of what he had seen, the same Night and afterwards, to several Persons, no Regard being had to the same by any Man till after Michaelmas last past, though the said Richard is a notorious Recusant, and also of a great Estate (as this Deponent believeth): But that, about Michaelmas aforesaid, the said Richard arrested this Deponent, by a Warrant from Sir Peter Gleane, One of His Majesty's Justices of the Peace of the County of Norff', and carried him this Deponent before the said Sir Peter, where he offered to make Oath of the Premises; but it was refused by the said Sir Peter, and this Deponent required to find Sureties for his Appearance at the next Sessions to be holden at Norwich for the said County of Norff.; which he this Deponent did accordingly, and was, and still stands, bound over by the said Sir Peter; which tends to the utter Ruin of this Deponent, he being indebted to several Persons, and therefore afraid he should be arrested and imprisoned upon his said Appearance.

"John Withipoll."

Jurat' coram me Edmundo Bohun, uno Justiciariorum Domini Regis ad Pacem in Comitat. Suff. prædict. conservandum, assignat. &c. Septimo die Mensis Decembris, Anno Regni Domini Nostri Caroli Secundi, &c. Tricesimo Anno Domini, 1678, apud Westhall, in Comitat. prædict.

Edmund Bohun.

T. Thorne to be brought up from Bury.

Upon Information given to this House, upon Oath, "That Thomas Thorne, now or late Servant to Richard Tasbrough Esquire, hath uttered dangerous and treasonable Words, and that he is at present in Custody in the Gaol at Berry, in Suff':"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, or his Deputy or Deputies, shall forthwith repair to Berry, and bring thence the Body of the said Thomas Thorne in safe Custody to the Bar of this House, to answer thereunto: And this shall be a sufficient Warrant on that Behalf.

To Sir George Charnock Knight, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, and to the Keeper of the Gaol at Berry, and their respective Deputies, and every of them; as also to all His Majesty's Officers Civil and Military, to be aiding and assisting in this Service.

Sir P. Gleane, a Justice in Norff. to attend, for refusing to take Withipoll's Examination.

Upon Information given to this House, "That Sir Peter Gleane, One of His Majesty's Justices of Peace for the County of Norff. about Michaelmas last past, refused to take the Deposition of John Withipoll, for the Discovery of Arms conveyed into the House of Richard Tasbrough Esquire, a notorious Recusant; but bound the said John Withipoll to appear at the next Sessions at Norwich, at the Suit of the said Richard Tasbrough:"

It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That the said Sir Peter Gleane be, and is hereby, required to appear at the Bar of this House within Four Days next after Notice given him of this Order, to answer to the said Information; and hereof he may not fail.

Jennison dismissed.

Mr. Jennison gave the House an Account, "That he hath been with his Son Thomas Jennison, a Prisoner in Newgate, and hath pressed him what he can, to discover what he knows concerning the horrid Design against the Person of His Majesty and His Government; and he finds him to be a Madman, and so cannot give any Account of any Thing."

Hereupon the House dismissed Mr. Jennison from any further Attendance.

L. Darcy excused.

Francis Wilks and Anthony Bincks, Servants of the Lord Darcy, deposed upon Oath, at the Bar, "That his Lordship is so ill, and aged, that he is not able to come up, and give his Attendance on this House, without Danger of his Life."

Which Excuse the House allowed.

Tasborough to be brought to the Bar.

ORDERED, That the Serjeant at Arms do bring Richard Tasbrough to this Bar To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock.

Adjourn.

Dominus Capitalis Justiciarius de Commun. Placit. declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Sabbati, 21^um diem instantis Decembris, hora nona Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Hitherto examined, this 4th of Jan. 1678, by us,

J. Bridgewater.

Clarendon.

T. Bath & Wells.

Thomas Lincolne.

Tho. Exon.