Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 17, 1701-1705. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.
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DIE Lun, 20 Martii.
Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales prsentes fuerunt:
Insolvent Debtors who will serve the Queen, Bill:
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the Discharge out of Prison such insolvent Debtors as shall serve, or procure a Person to serve, in Her Majesty's Fleet or Army."
The House was resumed.
And the Lord Granville reported, "That the Committee had gone through the said Bill; and think it fit to pass, with One Amendment."
Which was read Twice, and agreed to.
Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the Discharge out of Prison such insolvent Debtors as shall serve, or procure a Person to serve, in Her Majesty's Fleet or Army."
The Question was put, "Whether this Bill, with the Amendment, shall pass?
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Message to H. C. with an Amendment to it.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Legard and Sir Rich'd Holford:
To return the said Bill, and desire their Concurrence to their Lordships Amendment made thereto.
Message from thence, with a Bill.
A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Tredenham and others:
Who brought up a Bill, intituled, "An Act for the further recompensing of John Baker Gentleman and his Family, for the Services of Colonel Baker, at London-Derry in Ireland; and for stating the Accompts of the late Receivers of the Rents and Profits of the forfeited Estates in Ireland;" to which they desire the Concurrence of this House.
Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the further recompensing of John Baker Gentleman, and his Family, for the Services of Colonel Baker, at London-Derry, in Ireland; and for stating the Accompts of the late Receivers of the Rents and Profits of the forfeited Estates in Ireland."
Message from H. C. to return Fermor's Bill.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Mathew Dudley and others:
To return the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the setting aside a voluntary Settlement made by Mary Fermor Widow; and for ratifying a Partition made of the Manors of Mersham and Pett, and divers Lands in the County of Sussex, between her and Bartholomew Walmesley Esquire, and others;" and to acquaint this House, that they have agreed to the same, without any Amendment.
Bank Annuities, 3 per Cent. Bill.
Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for the better and more regular paying and assigning the Annuities, after the Rate of Three Pounds per Centum per Annum, payable to several Bankers and other Patentees, or those claiming under them."
The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"
It was Resolved in the Affirmative.
ORDERED, That the Commons have Notice, that the Lords have agreed to the said Bill, without any Amendment.
Recruits for Land Service and Marines, Bill.
ORDERED, That this House shall be put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for raising Recruits for the Land Forces and Marines; and for dispensing with Part of the Act for the Encouragement and Increase of Shipping and Navigation during the present War," To-morrow, at Twelve a Clock, and that all the Lords be summoned to attend.
Justices of Peace, Lancaster.
It is ORDERED, by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, That a List of the Justices of Peace for the County of Lancaster be laid before this House To-morrow, at Eleven of the Clock.
Public Accompts for taking, &c. Bill.
The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee again upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for the examining, taking, and stating, the Public Accompts of the Kingdom."
After some Time, the House was resumed.
And the Lord Ferrers reported, "That the Committee had gone through the said Bill; and think it fit to pass, with some Amendments."
Which were read Twice, and agreed to; and ORDERED, That the said Amendments be engrossed.
List of Justices of Peace turned out, delivered.
The Clerk of the Crown (pursuant to Order) delivered in a List of all the Justices who have been put out of the Commission of the Peace in the several Counties of this Kingdom, since Midsummer One Thousand Seven Hundred.
Scotch Conspiracy, Report about.
The Duke of Somerset reported from the Lords Committees appointed to examine into the Scotch Conspiracy, the several Examinations taken by them.
Which were read, as follow; (videlicet,)
"The Committee, appointed, by your Lordships Order, of the 22th of February, to examine farther into the Scottish Conspiracy, in Obedience to the Order of the House, proceeded to read the Papers referred to them, the better to enable them to examine the several Persons who appeared to be concerned; and afterwards they did proceed to take the Examinations, which are hereunto annexed.
"The House was also pleased, by an Order of the Sixth of March, to refer to the Committee Two intercepted Letters, whereof the One was sent to Mr. Keyth; by the Name of Mr. Smyth; and the other to Mr. Campbell; by the Name of John Moncriffe. The Committee did examine severally Mr. Keyth and Mr. Campbell thereupon; and the Committee desire to refer to their respective Examinations, as to what they have said in relation to those Letters.
"Sir John Macleane's Paper, delivered in to the Committee, February 26th, 170.
Sir John Maclean's Paper.
"In July 1702, the Lord Lovat, arriving at Paris, sent to Sir John Macleane, to let him know, "He wanted to see him;" and, upon his meeting with him, told him, "He had Matters of great Importance to communicate to the late Queen; but, before he would give an Account of them, he desired Her Promise, not to reveal them to any of Her Ministers." Sir John told him, "He had no Call to meddle in any Business, all Negotiations at that Court passing through the Hands of the Ministers; and that all that he could do was, to carry his Message, and give him whatever Answer he received?" The Lord Lovat told him, "He was more particularly concerned in this, because the Propositions were from the Chiestains of Clans, as he would give the Queen an Account, according to the Answer She should send him." Sir John delivered his Message to the Queen; who agreed to see him, and gave Her Promise, "to keep from Her Ministers whatever he should say to Her;" but, since it was absolutely necessary She should trust somebody about Her with it, She desired to know, "if he would condescend it should be my Lord Perth;" which he agreed to; and the Lord Lovat had a private Audience of the Queen, where my Lord Perth and Sir John were present; in which he told Her, "That he was commissionated from the greater Part of the Chiestains of the Highland Clans, that they would rise in Arms, with 10,000 Men, if they were assisted from France with Money, Arms, and Troops to support them; that he had been with them, and spoke to them, upon the First Account of K. William's Death, looking upon it, and the War breaking out, as a fit Opportunity." The Queen told him, "She would send to the French Minister, Mr. De Torcy, to communicate it to him; and then he should hear from Her." Some Days after, my Lord Perth desired Sir John to acquaint the Lord Lovat, "That the Queen had spoke to Torcy; and that he had appointed to meet him next Day at Paris, to have his Proposals." My Lord Perth, (fn. 1) the Lord Lovat, went the next Day to Paris, from whence they found Torcy had been called to Court, but (fn. 2) left M. de Callieres (whom he entrusted) to hear what Lovat had to say; and that he would acquaint the Q. in a few Days, when Lovat might see him privately at Marlye. Lord Lovat gave Mr. de Collieres the same Account he had given the Q.; "which, he said, he would report to Torcy, who would commune with him upon it at Marly." In some Days, my Lord Perth acquainted Sir John, "That Torcy had appointed next Day, to meet with Lovat at Marly; and that, lest it might give some Umbrage to the Ministers, from whom it was concealed, that he should be seen going often to the French Court, the Ministers having formerly desired of the Q. that he should not meddle in Business, because of his Relation to Melfort, then in Disgrace; that therefore Sir John should carry him to Mr. Dc Torcy."Sir John replied, "That he was as little known to Torcy as the Lord Lovat, having never spoke to him in his Life." Upon which, he told him, "He would have the Queen's Orders to write to Torcy;" which he did accordingly, and gave the Letter to Sir John, to be given Lovat; which he delivered to Torcy, who told him, "Mr. de Collieres had acquainted him with the Proposals he had made: That for Money and Arms, he believed his Master would condescend to; but He was so straitened as to Men, that the Difficulty would stand there: That he desired, in the mean Time, he would draw up a Memorial of the Names of those who had commissionated him, what Men they would raise, and what Number of Troops they desired; and that, since he had more Time at Paris than at Court, he gave him a Day, which he would acquaint the Q. of, to meet him; and, since She had informed him Her Ministers were not trusted with the Secret, he thought it were best they should meet at the Pope's Nuncio's at Paris, where he used to be frequently." The Lord Lovat returned, and met privately with Perth, to whom he gave an Account, to be given to the Queen, of what passed with Torcy. The Lord Lovat, at his Return, having drawn up his Memorial, desired Sir John to translate it into French. Sir John, in reading it, told him, "He found some Men named there, whom he inquired after some Days before, and whom he had told him he had not seen, but heard they were well; and that he thought he ought to name nobody but those he had Assurances from." He said, "He knew their Inclinations, and he would take it upon himself." Sir John told him, "That, besides this, he found in the List he made, that he had set down some of the Chiestains for Twice the Number they could raise." The Lord answered, "That he must make the Number sufficient, otherwise the Court of France would never engage." Sir John told him, "That, for his Part, he would never impose on any body; and that, if ever the Queen should disclose to Her Ministers the Project in Hand, finding a Part false, they would not fail to say, the Whole was supposed." The Lord was so displeased at Sir John's Freedom, that he put up his Memorial, carried it to Perth, who put it in French, and went to Paris without him. The Number of Men desired of the French were 5,000, who were to land on some Place near Dundee, where they might easily march to the Foot of the Hills, where the Highlanders might join, being secured by them from any Forces then in the Kingdom. Those Troops were to be transported from Dunkirke, and at the same Time 500 Men from Brest, to Fort William, to take in that Fort, and free the Highlanders from its Inconvenience at Home, when they were to take the Field. The Difficulty as to sending and transporting the Men stuck still with the French Court; so that the Lord Lovat went afterwards frequently to Paris alone, where he met with Torcy at the Nuncio's, and Callieres, to press the Affair. My Lord Perth, some Time after, meeting with Sir John, told him, "He had a Letter from Callieres, desiring him to go next Day to Paris, and bring Lord Lovat with him, for he hoped Torcy would come to a Conclusion; but that, it being impossible for him, Perth, to go next Day, he desired Sir John would acquaint Lord Lovat, and go along with him, to be present at the Conference;" which Sir John did, and found Torcy and Callieres, who told Lord Lovat, "That his Master had agreed to the Proposals; but he desired to have more essential Assurances from the Chiestains of Clans." Torcy proposed, in sending back Lovat, to send a French Commissary; but the Difficulties arising from his Want of the Language, from his being easily imposed upon, being a Stranger, made him lay it aside. But Callieres proposing some Scotsman in the French Service, whose Dependance on the French Court would make them secure; Captain John Murray, who had served there several Years, was pitched upon, as being known to Callieres. The Lord Lovat and Captain Murray went afterwards frequently to Versailles and Paris, communicating very little to Sir John, because of the Diffidence Lovat had of him, which had increased by a Refusal of a Commission of Major General he had asked of the Queen, and which he attributed to him. Sir John had Occasion of speaking to the Queen about a Part of his Pension that was owing. She took the Occasion to tell him, "That Lovat asked the said Commission;" and desired to have his Thoughts. Sir John told her plainly. "That he apprehended, giving him a Commission over the Heads of the Chiestains who were able to raise more Men than he, might disgust them; and that, since She spoke to him of that Affair, he was obliged to give his Sentiments of the Whole; that he was afraid the bad Circumstances Lovat was in at Home, with the natural Heat of his Temper, would push him to advance more than he could make good; and that, though those Gentlemen he named were willing to rise in Arms, yet, if She had not Assurances from some considerable Part of the Nobility in The Low Country, yet the Event would only be, that the French might make a Diversion for themselves, without any other Effect, as to Her Affairs, than the Ruin of the Gentlemen engaged; and though nobody wanted more than Sir J. a Handle for changing his Circumstances, that he would rather suffer still, than expose his Friends and Relations: But that She was best Judge of what She might expect from The Low Country, into which he did not presume to enter." She told him, with some Heat, "That She had sent several Messages to Duke Hamilton, but could have no Return; that he was so shy, She knew not what to make of him: That She sent lately to him by Captain James Murray; and that, if She was to have any Answer, it would be before the Return from The Highlands; that the Business in the mean Time was, to dispatch Lovat, and She would judge best at their Returns." The Lord Lovat and Captain Murray were for about Three Weeks from Paris to Versailles, that Sir John did not see them when they received their Dispatches. From the French Court they returned to St. German's, where Lovat had his last Instructions, which he did not communicate to Sir John, though lying at his Lodgings; but Sir John, coming into his Room when he was in Bed, looked them over; which, it seems, he perceived; and in the Afternoon, read them to Sir John. What he remembers of the Contents of them is, "That he was to assure the Chiestains, that they should be supported with Money, Arms, and Men; that he should return positive Assurances from them, of what Number they could raise, with an Account of the State of the Nation in general, and of their Inclinations in the present Parliament; and to return with the Account." The Lord Lovat and Murray were about Three Weeks more at Versailles and Paris before they went off, that Sir John did not see them. He went to Paris Two Days before their Departure, where Lovat told him, "That he would scarce have as much Money left him as would perform his Journey." On which, Sir John asked him, "What Sum he had got?" He told him, "400 Pistoles;" which he had said nothing of to him, though he had received it a con- siderable Time before. At his Departure, he pressed Sir John to write by him to some of the Chieftains, who were his Relations, and to the Gentlemen of his own Family; which Sir John shunned, telling him, "That those who had trusted him before, would trust him again; and that, if Sir John found it necessary to write to those of his own Family, he would send his Letters to him to Brussells, where, he said, he was to make some Stay." Sir John had a Letter from him from St. Omer's, where he sell ill, complaining of not sending him Recommendations to his Friends, with some four Expressions. Sir John never wrote to him since he went from Paris, nor designed no farther Communication with him; neither did Lovat let him know where he was to take his Passage. Major Frazier, who went with him, was only as of his Family and Relation. Murray was the only Entrusted from the French Court. Some little Time after Lovat's Departure, there came an Account of the Queen's Act of Grace to Her Scots Subjects, a Promise of which had come before he went off. Those of the Scots Nation at St. German's asked, and easily obtained, Leave to return; that Court never refusing it to any: Those who returned (as Sir John remembers) were, Colonel Buchan, Captain Midleton, Colonel Grahme, Captain Deane, David Lindsay, and Captain Meares. Sir John went immediately to the Q. and put Her in Mind, "That, some Years before, the late King James had given him Leave to return, if he could procure a License; that he hoped She would give him Leave, as She did to the rest of his Countrymen, to take Hold of this Opportunity to live amongst his Friends, who, on the former Occasion, had promised him their Assistance to subsist him." She easily condescended to his Proposal. Sir John went about his Journey, in which he had great Difficulties, having a Family to carry with him, being resolved to leave nothing behind he had any Relation to. Finding the Passages to Holland stopped, he sent to Calais, to know when the Packet Boats for Exchange of Prisoners was expected, which was the only Passage left: Having an Answer, "that its Return would be in 15 Days;" he prepared himself, but it did not arrive till Two Months after. Sir John immediately took Post, but arrived Two Days too late, the Ship returning without any Prisoners a Fortnight sooner than its ordinary Time, by a Dispute which happened betwixt the Governor of Calais and the Master of the Ship. Sir John staid Two Months there, in Hopes of its Return, where he found some English Gentlemen Prisoners there, waiting for the same Occasion, till, the Governor sending them out of Town, believing, by the Delay of the Ship, that the Commerce was entirely broke off, Sir John hazarded in a little open Fisher-boat, which had been released, and with the Hazard of his Wife, who was but Eleven Days brought to Bed, and of his Children, landed in England, where there must be Two Hundred People to draw up the Boat, asked for the Magistrate, delivered himself, and told him who he was. The late Q. as Sir John took Leave of Her, told him, "She hoped he would have no Resentment of any Neglect he had met with there; that, as to Lord Lovat, She believed he would be returned before he could be well in Eng'd; that She recommended to him to found D. Hamilton, from whom she had no Answer; but not to communicate any Thing of Lovat's Affair, if he did not find him disposed for her Service. She recommended to him to speak to Athol, if he should find him disposed as to Marshall."
"What Sir John knows of David Lindsay is, That he had been sent from St. German's to England, and returned with the Earl Midleton, which was before Sir John went to France. He knows nothing of any real Errand he now has, nor ever had any Communication with him whilst there.
B. Sir John Macleare's farther Examination.
"Sir John Macleane, being brought to the Committee, was told, "The House of Lords had been informed, that he had been promised a Pardon, in case he should make an ingenuous Confession; but that the House was not satisfied that his Confession was full, and had ordered the Committee to examine him farther."
"Sir John Macleane said, "He understood that he had an absolute Promise of Pardon; but, he said, he did not insist upon it, and was ready to tell all he could recollect." Whereupon the Lords of the Committee ordered him to set down in Writing, in his own Hand, what he could remember; and then they would examine him farther.
"On the 26th February, he delivered to the Lords the Paper marked A.
"Being farther examined, he declared, "That, upon the Queen's Accession to the Crown, he had applied himself to the Earl of Cromarty, by Sir neas Mackferson his Father-in-law, for a License to come over; but had received no Answer.
"That he was willing to take the Opportunity of coming away, upon the publishing the Indemnity in Scotland.
"That, upon his coming away, the late Queen at St. German's procured for him 2000 Livers from the French Court, as for a particular Service of Her own. His Allowance, whilst he staid in France, was about 900 Livres per Annum.
"When he took his Leave of the late Queen, She told him, "She had sent to D. Hamilton by divers Persons, and had no Answer from him; but that She had lately sent James Murray to him, by whom She hoped for an Answer."
"The late Queen gave him in Charge, to use the discreetest Measures he could with D. Hamilton, to sound him. He was not to speak to D. Hamilton at first as from the Queen, but was to discourse him as of himself; and if he found him well disposed to enter into the Business of France, then he was to tell him, "He knew of James Murray's Message to him, and to use the Queen's Name; but he was to break Frazer's Business by Degrees, the Queen apprehending he would be averse to it, by reason of his Conjunction with the Athol Family, who hated Frazer."
"The Queen did not give him any Credentials to the Lords She employed him to; She knowing that he was related to D. Hamilton, and knew him, and the Knowledge of James Murray's Message was a Credential.
"The Queen knew it was very well between the Families of Macleane and Athol and Marshall. The Queen told him, "The Lord Athol had a great Interest in The Highlands, and She knew what great Animosities there were between him and Lovet; and that, if Sir J. Macleane could find any Way to mitigate Things between them, he would do Her a great Service."
"They looked on the D. of Athol as One rather engaged by D. Hamilton. It is on the latter they depended principally; as having been entrusted by K. James, and who never meddled with any Employment under the late Government, which the D. of Athol had done.
"As to the Earl of Marshal, the Lord Perth pretends an Interest with him, as being his Son-in-law. The Earl of Marshal and his Father were always looked upon as Creatures of K. James's.
"The Lord Perth said to Sir John Macleane, at parting, "That he was privy to James Murray's being sent to D. Hamilton, and he hoped the Duke would trust him."
"The Lord Perth also told Sir John Macleane, "He had given Instructions to John Murray, to speak with the Earl of Marshall."
"He never talked of the D. of Athol with any Confidence or Friendship; their Families having been never well together.
"One Bell, who had been a Captain in Buchan's Regiment, and had lived at St. German's from the Conclusion of the Highland Business, was sent for Scotland last Winter, but died in Holland in his Way thither. Sir J. Macleane was with the Lord Perth, when the News of his Death came; who expressed himself to be much troubled at it, because Bell was One whom D. Hamilton entirely trusted, and who he hoped would have done Good with him; and then he told Sir J. Macleane, "That was the Business about which Bell was sent to Scotland." Afterwards Sir Adam Blair told him the same Thing.
"As to what Sir John Macleane had formerly said of Stevenson's Message to D. Hamilton, he had it no otherwise than by common Report.
"Nevill, Paine, and Colonel Parker, and a Club at Paris (who are in Opposition to the Earl of Middleton, and pretend to have License from the French Court to keep Intelligence), said, "That Stevenson was sent to D. Hamilton by the Earl of Middleton; and when, about a Fortnight after Stevenson's Return from Scotland, he was put into The Bastile, they said, "He had not been trusted by D. Hamilton; and that Word had been sent privately, that he should be clapped up."
"Sir J. Macleane, being asked, "Who was to command the Troops which France was to send to Scotland?" made Answer, "That, in the Discourse between the Lord Perth and Mr. Torcy, Mr. Callieres, and himself, together with Frazer, it was agreed, That, if D. Hamilton would engage, he should have the Chief Command: That D. Hamilton was looked upon in France as an Officer; but they intended to send a Frenchman, to take Care of the Troops, and act under him; but they did not then seem to think of sending the D. of Berwick, because, if the great Men in Scotland engaged, they would not be willing to be commanded by him."
"Being asked, "How they came to have so great an Opinion of D. Hamilton at the Court of France?" Sir John Macleane said, "He was looked upon as the most popular Man, being at the Head of that great Number of Lords and Gentlemen who protested against the Sitting of the last Parliament." Upon the Sitting of this present Parliament, the Court at St. German's thought it their Business to obstruct the declaring the Succession to the House of Hanover; and approved of the Acts and other Things brought into the Parliament, as tending to that Point.
"The Council at St. German's consists of the D. of Berwick, the Lord Perth, the Earl of Middleton, and the Lord Carryl.
"The Queen at St. German's had promised Frazer not to discover his Design to any of the Ministers besides the Lord Perth; but, after France had agreed to the whole Matter, She directed the Lord Perth to tell Sir J. Macleane, "That She desired to speak with Frazer; and that She hoped he would be brought to consent it might be communicated to the whole Council, for they had got an Inkling of it, and it would be better She should tell it them Herself, than that it should be known without Her."
"Sir J. Macleane gave an Account of this to Frazier; who went to wait upon Her, and, at his Return to his Lodgings, told Sir John Macleane, "That he had consented to it, and that he thought it in vain to do otherwise, for he believed She had told them of it before." Frazer said, "She had ordered him to wait upon them." Frazer first sent Sir Alexander Macleane to the D. of Berwick, to know when he would be attended; and a Time being appointed, Frazer and Sir Alexander (as they both told Sir John Macleane) went to him, and discoursed with him of the Number of Men, and Provisions, and how they could make up their Magazines, and about the Situation of the Country; and he brought out Maps to them.
"The D. of Berwick told them, "That the Court of France had already concluded D. Hamilton the fittest Man to command in Chief, if he would be engaged; and that there was no Occasion for him, since he could not serve under D. Hamilton; but, if D. Hamilton did not engage, and if, upon Frazer's Return, he saw the Affair turn more general, then, if the Two Courts gave him any Orders, he would be ready to obey."
"Frazer said, "The D. of Berwick would not be acceptable to the Scots Nation; all the Scots Officers in France being discontented with him, for having favoured the Pretensions of the Irish Officers, in order to their being provided for in the Irish Regiments; for they all knew it was the D. of Berwick's doing, though the Commissions were given out by the French Court." Sir J. Macleane did suppose this was told by J. Murray to Frazer.
"Frazer told Sir J. Macleane, "That he had been with the Earl of Middleton, and John Murray had gone along with him." The Earl of Middleton said, "The Queen had given him an Account of the Design; and he was well satisfied with it, and approved of the Project, and bid Frazer take Care of himself; and said, it was incumbent on Frazer to be very particular in the Accounts returned or brought back."
"Sir J. Macleane was with Frazer when he took Leave of the E. of Middleton; who expressed a Resentment, that the Project had been kept so long from him.
"Frazer desired to speak in private with the Lord Middleton in his Closet, and did so. At Night, he told Sir J. Macleane, "What he said to the Earl of Middleton then, was to desire a Pardon for himself, as to the Business which concerned the Athol Family; because he foresaw, if D. Hamilton should engage, he would have the great Sway; and being so much in the Interest of the Ashol Family that was bent against him, he thought it securest for him to get a Pardon by the Lord Middleton's Interest at this Time."
The Lord Middleton's Answer was, "That there was no Scots Lawyer about the Court who knew how to draw a Pardon, which must be nicely done; but that, if Frazer would get one prepared in Scotland, it should be passed upon his coming back."
"The Earl of Middleton is not looked on to be a Friend to D. Hamilton; the Earl of Melfort was thought to be his principal Friend.
"The Earl of Hume is thought to be the Top of the Party that depends on the Lord Middleton; and it is generally thought, at St. German's, that he is the Man most relied on by the Lord Middleton, and whose Interest he supports.
"When Mr. Frazer and Jo. Murray went away, they agreed with the Lord Perth, to settle a Correspondence in Scotland for him.
"They pretended they would go by the Way of Holland, and pass through the French Army; but Sir Alex'r Macleane wrote Word to Sir Jo. Macleane afterwards, "that they had not passed that Way."
"Sir J. Macleane said, "He had often discoursed with the Lord Perth about Frazer's Affair; the Lord Perth was the First that was entrusted with it:
"The last Directions the Lord Perth gave Sir John Macleane was, to press Frazer and Jo. Murray (if they were not come away before Sir John Macleane came to Scotland) not to fail to bring authentic Proofs of what Frazer had said; for that otherwise his Friends would suffer at the Court of France, and his Enemies would take Advantage at the Court of St. German's. He proposed, in particular, "That, when they returned to France, if it were possible, they should bring over one of the Highland Chiestains with them."
"The Lord Perth was the Person with whom Sir Jo. Macleane was to hold Correspondence. He told Sir J. Macleane, at parting, "That, if he found Frazer and Jo. Murray in Scotland, they would tell him how that Correspondence was fixt, and what Address was to be used; but, if they were come away, then he was to know it from Rob't Murray, John's Brother, who was generally in Edinburgh; but, if he chanced to be absent, he might be heard of at his Elder Brother's House, in Perthshire."
"He said, "He gave an Account of this intended Correspondence to the E. of Nottingham."
"The Reason of trusting Jo. Murray to go along with Frazer, and observe what he did, was, not only because he had served long in the French Troops, but because he was also well known to Monsieur Cailleres.
"The Time proposed for Action in The Highlands, is just between Harvest and the Beginning of Winter.
"The Money desired for this Expedition was One Hundred Thousand Crowns, and the Arms were for Twenty Thousand Men; both which were promised: But the Arms were not sent when Sir J. Macleane came away; nor was there any of the Money to be sent, till the Security of Things appeared upon Frazer's Return, and then it was to be sent by a French Commissary."
"Sir J. Macleane was asked, "What Persons left France upon the News of the Indemnity in Scotland, and what was their Character, and upon what Designs they came?" He named Major General Buchan, Captain Deane, Patrick Grahme, Captain Middleton, Captain Meers, and David Lyndsay.
"He said, "As to Major General Buchan, he believed he was not trusted with the Highlands Business, because he knew he was the most ungrateful Man living to the Highlanders; so that, if he was employed in any Thing, it must be with respect to The Lowlands; but that it was kept as much from them, as their Design in The Highlands was from others, though he did not doubt but other Men were employed in other Places."
"He said, "He knew that formerly, when he was in The Highlands, Major General Buchan kept Correspondence with the then Earl of Arran and the E. of Hume; and that the E. of Arran remitted Money to him.
"As to Patrick Grahme, Sir J. Macleane said, he was very low at St. German's: He believed Captain Murray, who is his Sister's Son, has communicated to him all Frazer's Affair. They went together from Paris.
"He looked upon Captain Middleton as superannuated; it was One of his Sons, who kept The Bass for King James. He believes him to be very hearty in the Cause of St. German's.
"Captain Deane and Mr. David Lyndsay went off together. Sir J. Maclean said, "Captain Deane was Governor of my Lord Middleton's Children for about Two Years." Sir J. M. was present when Deane came to take his Leave of Sir Randolph Macdonald; who asked him; "What he would do in Scotland? he would starve there, as well as at St. German's." But Captain Deane made Answer, "He had a Brother, or Relations, who might help him." Deane has no Estate in Scotland.
"What Orders or Instructions Deane had, he believed, were from the E. of Middleton. Deane was One of the Officers concerned in the Mutiny of Dunbarton' Regiment, at the Beginning of the Revolution: He has the Reputation of a very good Officer."
"Sir John Macleane said, "David Lyndsay was the Person most likely to be entrusted by the E. of Middleton; he came away about the same Time with Frazer.
"He continued in the Secretary's Office till the Time that he came away: He had the least Pretence of any body for going for Scotland; for he had no Estate there, and had a good Salary of 12 or 1400 Livres per Annum for his Office, besides Perquisites.
"As to Mrs. Fox, Sir J. Macleane said, she had formerly been a great Friend of the E. of Melfort's, and was looked upon as One that had all the Secret of his Correspondence in Engl'd, whose Agent she was.
"She lived some Time with the Lord Chief Justice Herbert and the Lady Philips, and some others; but they fell out, and parted, upon Occasion of my Lord Melfort; she endeavouring to sustain his Interest after his Disgrace. Then she lived in a Monastery for some Time; and since that, in a Pension, at One Mrs. Conn's."
"She told Sir J. Macleane, "She had been piqued at some ill Usage she had met with from the Lady Melfort and Lady Perth; and, by making a Friendship with my Lady Middleton, she came at last to be entirely trusted by my Lord and Lady Middleton."
"She pretended to Sir J. Macleane, "that she came over about Law Business of her own;" but he believes she comes entrusted and employed by the E. of Middleton. She being vain and passionate, he hoped to have got the Matter out of her, but could not do it; but she owned to Sir J. Macleane, "That she was to return to France, when her Business was over;" and gave as a Reason for that Pretence, "That she could not live, where she must see her Husband live with another Woman." She said to Sir J. Macleane, "That they who were now in the Government here were not inclined to use any Severity to those who had been under Vexation before."
"The Lord Perth told Sir J. Macleane, "That the Lord Middleton had employed Mrs. Fox, to inquire about Sir J. Maclean's House, where Frazer lodged, to learn what she could of him. After Frazer had been with Lord Middleton, he asked Sir J. Macleane to carry him to Mrs. Fox; but he declined it. There- upon he applied himself to Jo. Murray, who brought them together."
"Sir J. Macleane believed, that, as soon as the E. of Middleton was acquainted with Frazer's Business, Mrs. Fox knew of it.
"He said, "That, Mrs. Fox and the Lady Maclcane being warm in Dispute together; Mrs. Fox said, in his Hearing, "We laugh at your Highland Projects; my Lord Middleton and I know more solid Things."
"Sir J. Macleane heard Mrs. Fox say, "That Peter Cook had been sent over to France, and was sent back again from thence."
"Being asked about the Four Lords named in the Paper given in to the House by the E. of Nottingham, who are therein mentioned to have desired to see King James:
"He said, "He was told, by divers of King James's Servants, that the Lord Montross had been at Fountainbleau for a Fortnight together, when King James was there."
"That the Lord Perth, who is Uncle to the Lord Hay, told him, "He had acquainted King James, that the Lord Hay desired to see him; but King James would not consent unto it, for it might do them Harm, and would do King James no Good."
"Sir J. Macleane faith, "He never heard, or said, that the Lord Roxburgh, or the Lord Seaton, desired to see King James; nor did he ever see those Two Lords but at Paris, during the Peace; but he heard some of King James's Servants say, "That those Two Lords took Occasion Once to go into the Field upon an Hunting-day, which they apprehended might be with an Intent to see King James."
"The Reason of his naming the Four Lords was upon a general Question, asked him by the E. of Nottingham, "Which of the Lords (amongst a great many that he had named to have been at Paris,) were thought to be disposed towards the Court of St. German's?"
"The E. of Errol Father to the Lord Hay, and the E. of Wington Father to the Lord Seaton, are thought, at St. German's, to be well affected; and so is the Lord Sinclear."
"Sir J. Macleane has heard Bouchan say, "He had Correspondence with the Lord Aberdeen, when he was in The Highlands; the Lord Aberdeen is looked upon, at St. German's, generally as well affected to their Interest."
"Being asked, "If he knew that any Liberty had been granted to People, to take the Oaths to this Government?"
"He said, "That, upon the Capitulation with the Highlanders in 1692, when Terms were offered them upon taking the Oath of Allegiance, one Captain Minnis and Sir Geo. Berkeley were sent into France, to know King James's Mind in that Particular. Minnis returned, with an Answer, "That the King said, He would never order any body to swear; but that He left every one to judge for himself what he could best do, and to do as they thought fit." Minnis declared, "He understood this for a tacit Compliance." He said, "He knew nothing of this Kind since that Time."
"Being examined about the intercepted Gibberish Letters; he said, "There was an Account at Paris, from the Dutch Gazette, that such Letters had been intercepted;" but he affirmed, "That he never knew any Thing of them, or how to interpret them."
"Sir J. Macleane, being asked the Meaning of the Paper, marked N 5, which was given in to the House by the E. of Nottingham, said, "It did contain the Names of the Heads of the Clans, which Frazer named to the French Ministers, as engaged with him, and for whom he would answer, so far as Sir J. Macleane could remember them; and the First Numbers put to those Names, are the Numbers Frazer gave in, as what they would bring into the Service.
"The 2d Numbers are not of Sir J. Maclean's setting down, nor does he know by whom they were set down; nor does he think that Reducement is rightly done."
"Sir J. Macleane said, "He saw the Master of Oliphant at Paris, and looked upon him to be a Papist; but does not know of what Religion he is. He saw him at Paris Twice. He told Sir J. Macleane, "He had Directions from his Father to return to Scotland, and intended to go through the French Army in Flanders." He says, "That Sir Alex'r Macleane wrote him Word, that the Master of Oliphant came down to the Army to pass into Holland; and he was recommended, by the D. of Berwick, to the Marshal Villeroy, to have a safe Conduct to go to the D. of Marlborough's Camp; and he went thither accordingly."
"Sir J. Macleane said, "There was no Intimacy between Sir Alexander Macleane and the Master of Oliphant; that Sir Alexander is a very prudent and cautious Man." And Sir J. Macleane said, "He was fully persuaded, that he would not have used any Sort of Freedom, in talking of any secret Design, or any Thing he would not have had every body know, to One he was so little acquainted with, or with One of the Master of Oliphant's Character; who, by his indiscreet Talking, had like to have brought himself into Trouble both at Paris and in the Army.
C. Lady Maclean's Examination.
"The Lady Macleane, being examined by the Committee, said, "She remembered a Discourse that was between her and Mrs. Fox; and that Mrs. Fox said to her, when Sir J. Macleane was present, "We laugh at your Highland Projects; my Lord Middleton and I know better Things;" or to that Effect."
"She said, "That Mrs. Fox, in her Discourse, was used to despise all that could be done in Scotland;" and to say, "That if any Thing considerable was done, it must be done in England."
"Mrs. Fox used to say, "That she had great Friends here in England, and that she feared nothing." She used to say, "That King James had good Friends in England."
"My Lady Macleane said, "Mr. Frazer desired her several Times to introduce him to Mrs. Fox; but she refused to do it." She said, "The Reason of his desiring it, was in Hopes to be well with the E. of Middleton by her Means."
"She said, "She had seen Mrs. Fox several Times very familiar with the Countess of Middleton; but she has never seen her with the Earl of Middleton."
"The E. of Perth said, "Before the E. of Middleton was acquainted with Frazer's Business, that Mrs. Fox was sent to be a Spy upon Frazer, and to observe what he did; but, she says, she believes Mrs. Fox knew of Frazer's Business, before Frazer himself was introduced to her."
"The Lady Macleane has heard Mrs. Fox complain of the Lord Melfort's Ingratitude to her, though she was a great Support to him, by Means of her great Friends in England; and that he had never done any Thing for her, in recommending her to King James or His Queen; and particularly, she mentioned One Passage, which Mrs. Fox complained of, "That she had given very considerable Intelligence from England to the Lord Melfort, to be laid before King James in her Name; and that the Lord Melfort gave an Account of it to King James, without naming her to Him, which she took very ill."
"The Lady Macleane said, "That when they landed at Folkston, and were giving in their Names to the Mayor, that Mrs. Fox said, "Her Name was Foscue," or some such Name; and said, "She was the Lady Macleane's Sister." The Lady Macleane asked, "Why she said so, since it was not true?" Mrs. Fox said, "Then she would say, she was Cousin to the Lady Macleane; for she was desirous to pass for One of Scotland, that she might have the Benefit of the Indemnity." The Lady Macleane saying, "That it would be inquired into, and the Truth found out;" Mrs. Fox said, "She was afraid to give her right Name of Fox, because she had been named in Sir John Fenwick's Business, and she apprehended that would bring her into Trouble."
D. Mr. Campbell's Examination.
"Mr. Campbell was examined several Times by the Committee.
"Being asked, "Who were the Persons in The Highlands, that he says, in the Beginning of his Narrative, marked N 2, were not necessary to be named?" He answered, "That they were several little Gentlemen of that Country, of the Name of Cambron and Macdonald; and that they were not particularly named to him by Frazer."
"Being asked, "Who Captain Alex'r Macleane was, who is mentioned in his Narrative?" He said, "He was made a Knight in Ireland; and that he is now in the French Army, a Captain in the Irish Guards."
"He said, "Frazer told him, that the Lord Drummond was engaged in the whole Affair of the Insurrection."
"He said, "Captain John Marray told him, during the Session of Parliament, that he had seen the D. of Gourdon, and the Earls of Errol and Marshall; but he could not tell what to make of them, People were so very cautious of saying any Thing while the Parliament was sitting."
"Being asked the Meaning of what is wrote in the Margent of his Narrative, That as to Glengarie's being sent, he discovered that to be false, he going strait to the North, to his own House?"
"He said, "He meant no more, than that he discovered that he did not go directly from Edinburgh to France, but that he went first into the North: But he knows not where he now is, or has been since he left Edinburgh; nor knows not but that he did go into France." Mr. Tucker came to him, and said, "He was come to add to his Paper, what he had said to the Lords;" and thereupon he added that Marginal Note.
"Frazer told him, "The Lord Cromarty had a Person at Paris, who corresponded with the Court at St. German's; his Name was Mackinny, whom he represented as a Spy to Monsieur D'Torcy, and got him into The Bastile."
"Campbell said, "He came Post to Town in October last, in Expectation of having a Company by the Favour of the E. of Cromarty, being recommended to him by the E. of Bredalbain and Arbuthnot."
"Being asked, "Who Captain Morhar, that is often named in his Narrative, was?" He said, "He meant Captain James Murray; and that he observed the Mistake upon the reading the Narrative, and told the E. of Nottingham of it. It was by the Mistake of Mr. Tucker, who wrote his Narrative for him by the Lords Order." This James Murray is Stanhope's Brother. Frazer told him, "That James Murray was in the Interest of D. Hamilton and the D. of Athol; but he never spoke with him himself."
"Being examined as to Clarke; he said, "Clarke himself told him of all Frazer's Designs; and he heard Frazer and Clarke talk together of the whole Affair; and Clarke was looked upon as a Man fit to be trusted in all Things."
"He also said, "He shewed the Commission, as well as the Picture, to Clarke." He says, "Frazer told him, that it was Clarke who got the Case of the Picture engraved for him." Clarke said, "The sooner the King comes, the better."
"He also said, "That Keith and Frazer advised together of the whole Matter. He found, by their Discourse, that Frazer had made Keyth acquainted with the Design, before he went into Scotland."
"It was Frazer told him, "that Keyth was an Enemy to the D. of Queensberry." Campbell said, "That as soon as he was examined about the Pass, he began to suspect Keyth." He said, "That Frazer trusted Keyth entirely."
"He being asked, "If Frazer knew of Keyth's Acquaintance with the D. of Athol; and if so, how he came to trust him so much?" Campbell said, "That Frazer did know of Keyth's depending upon the D. of Athol; and that he hoped to be Secretary Depute by the Duke's Means, which Keyth told both to himself and to Frazer: But Keyth made Frazer believe, he loved Frazer better than the D. of Athol; and Frazer thought by his Means to know all that Athol was doing.
"Frazer did not only tell Keyth of the Highland Affair, and of all his Business Abroad; but also told him, "That the D. of Queensberry was to procure a Pass for him." Keyth's Scheme, which he shewed Campbell, wherein Notice was taken of the D. of Marlborough's and the Lord Treasurer's Design to bubble Perth and Middleton, was written with an Intent to prevent that Design of theirs; and therein he said, "That he thought the most effectual Means to do it was, to send the young King into Scotland."
"Keyth told Campbell, "That he shewed Frazer the Paper." But Keyth said, "It was not so perfect at that Time; but he told Frazer, that his Opinion was, that Frazer should not enter into the Business of Scotland, unless King James came in Person."
"Campbell being asked, "Where Frazer's Instructions were?" He said, "They were left with Tom Frazer, to be shewed up and down in The Highlands; he had seen those Instructions; and that by them, Frazer had Power to renew all the Commissions formerly sent by King James, when he was in Ireland, to the Highlanders, if he saw Occasion. There was also in them, a Promise and Assurance, that the Highlanders should be supported with Men, Arms, and Money."
"Campbell said, "That, after he had been examined about the Pass, he thought it necessary to see Ferguson, with whom Frazer had advised him to consult on all Occasions, as being very intelligent; though he cautioned him not to trust him too far, because, he said, he knew he had a Pension from St. German's; and he did not know but he might have a Pension from the Court here. Thereupon he spoke to Clarke, "to appoint Ferguson to meet him at The Vine Taverne, in Holborne, in order to advise with him, how he was to act upon the present Occasion." Accordingly Camp- bell, Clarke, and Ferguson, met at that Place; and Ferguson told Campbell, "He would certainly be re-examined, and put in Custody; and therefore bid him take Care of himself, for, if he was brought to a Trial, Ferguson thought he would be in very great Hazard." Campbell understood the Meaning of his Discourse to be, that it was adviseable for him to get out of the Way; and thereupon he said, "He did not apprehend the Danger to be so great as Ferguson expressed it."
"Ferguson told Clarke also, "That he would be put into Custody." Clarke made Answer, "That he had a Family, and would abide by it."
"Ferguson said, "It was discoursed, that Frazer was gone into France, as a Spy for the D. of Queensberry; and that, if that was so, Frazer would be certainly put into The Bastile. And then he proceeded to insinuate to Campbell, "that it was his wisest Way to strike in with the D. of Athol; for that, Frazer being a Spy for the D. of Queensberry, and the D. of Queensberry not so well affected to the Interest of St. German's as the D. of Athol was, it would be better for him to join with Athol."
"Campbell said, "He could not remember his very Words; but that he expressed himself in such a Manner, that he found that to be his Meaning, and that nothing else could be understood by what he said." "He said, "The D. of Athol was more truly engaged to that Interest they were engaged in, than the Duke of Queensberry was."
"Campbell told Ferguson, "That he was upon too ill Terms with the D. of Athol, to comply with that; and that, if the D. of Athol sent for him, he would not go to him."
"Campbell said, "Ferguson, Clarke, and he, met at The Vine Twice; and their Discourse was to the same Effect both Times.
"Campbell said, "That, after he had been examined about the Pass, he met the Lord Tullibardin at the Earl of Cromartye's Office; and the Lord Tullybardin told him, "His Father desired him to come to speak with him; and that he would forgive Campbell for getting Frazer's Pass, because he knew Frazer was of Kin to him." He thinks this was about the Beginning of December. The D. of Athol afterwards sent a Servant to Campbell, to desire Campbell to come to him; but he declined it."
"The Committee shewed Campbell the intercepted Letter, dated 24th February, as from Liege. He said, "It was Frazer's Hand-writing; and that he believed it came from Paris, though it was mentioned to come from Liege."
"March 11th, 1704.
"Mr. Campbell, being farther examined as to Frazer's Letter of the 24th February, said, "That, by the Words my good Friend N, Frazer meant Captain Macloud, whose Christian Name is Neil.
"That by To. in the Letter, was intended Tom Frazer, his Servant, who is employed in his Business in The Highlands."
"Being asked, "What is meant by the Words in the Letter, You tell me that K. betrayed me to A. and now we hear of his Sufferings for me?" He said, "The First Part related to the Letter Campbell wrote to Frazer, wherein he told Frazer, that Keyth had betrayed him to the D. of Athol." And as to the latter Words, that he believed some other body had sent Word to Frazer, that Keyth was in Prison upon his Account; and he could not but wonder, why the same Person did not give him an Account of Campbell's own Imprisonment.
E. Mr. Keith's Examination.
"The Committee had Mr. Keyth before them; and acquainted him with the Vote of the House, which passed upon his Refusal to explain his Uncle's Letter; and desired him to be more ingenuous. But he persisted in pretending that he could not tell the Meaning of the dark Expressions in the Letter.
"Being desired by the Committee to make a full Discovery of his Knowledge, relating to the Conspiracy; and being told, "That no One, who read his Narrative of the 3d of January, could believe he had been ingenuous;" and also representing to him the Danger he was in:
"He made Answer, "That he put all into his Narrative that he knew;" and frankly told the Committee, "That what was against him, could amount to no more than Misprision of Treason; and even that was impossible to be proved against him."
"He said, "About Five Days after he had been committed to Newgate, he proposed that he might be brought before the Lords of the Committee of Council; and he was so; and he desired, "he might have their Word of Honour, that nothing he should say, should be made Use of against him:" That, the Day after, he was brought before them again, and was then told, "That the Queen had said, that what he discovered should not turn to his Prejudice:" He then told the Lords, "That a Friend of his, nearly related to him, had given him an Account of the Conspiracy; and that, if he had a Promise that that One Person should be secure of his Life, he would make a full Discovery of all that was told him; but that he asked nothing for himself, for he was innocent."
"He said, "The next Day he was brought again before the Lords; and was then told, "They were allowed to let him know, that the Queen promised, that the Person should have his Life;" and after that Promise, he gave in his Narrative."
"Being asked, "What he had done towards bringing his Uncle John Murray to surrender himself, or procuring him to be taken?" He said, "He wrote a Letter to his Uncle, advising him to come into England, which he shewed to the Earl of Nottingham, who gave it him back again; and he said, "That afterwards he enclosed that Letter in a Letter to his Mother, and gave it into the Post-house."
"Being asked, "If any body saw what he wrote to his Mother, or if he had any Witness that the Letter was delivered into the Post-office?" He said, "No."
"Being asked, "What was the Meaning of the Letter he wrote to the E. of Nottingham, dated the 29th of January, which denied what he had before owned in his Narrative?" He said, "He went to the Earl of Nottingham, and told him, That he heard he was to be sent for to the House of Lords; and desired of him to know, what he was to say to them." That the Earl of Nottingham told him, "He should know when the Papers were to be laid before the House;" and accordingly he had Notice of it: And that the Queen had not thought fit to lay his Narrative before the Lords at that Time; and thereupon he wrote that Letter to the Earl of Nottingham, being what he said upon his First Examination, as containing all that he could say."
"He thought fit to deny to the Committee, that he had received Frazer's Letter, directed to Hill, from Clark's Hand.
"The Committee sent again for Mr. Keyth, to shew him the intercepted Letter, directed to him, by the Name of Smith, at The Marine Coffee-house, dated from his own House, the 22th February.
He said, "The Letter was the Hand-writing of a Brother of Captain John Murray's, whose Name is Robert Murray: That he lived in Perthshire, about Twelve Miles from Perth, at an House of his Wife's, called Auchter Ardow; but that he had Lodgings in Edinburgh; and that he was bred a Lawyer." Keyth said, "By his Comrade, in that Letter, he understands his Uncle John Murray to be meant."
"Campbell having told the Committee, "That Mr. Keyth had said to Frazer, and also to himself, that he expected to be Secretary Depute of Scotland;" the Committee asked him about that Matter: And Mr. Keyth said, "That, by the Favour of the D. of Athol, he had, about Four or Five Months since, a Promise made to him, that, when the Affairs of Scotland were regulated, he should be employed."
F. David's Lindsay's Examination.
"The Committee had David Lyndsay Twice before them.
"He said, "He left St. German's the First of June, and took Shipping at Rotterdam, and landed at Leith in Scotland." He owned, "that he had been Secretary to the E. of Middleton; and that no other Person was in that Employment at the Time he left St. German's."
"That his Salary was 1000 Livres a Year (besides such small Perquisites as happened), which was continued till his coming away; and he acknowledged he was in good Friendship with the Lord Middleton to the last.
"That he was entitled to an Estate in Scotland, in Right of his Wise, of about . 60 per Annum; but his Wife's Mother had the One Half of it during her Life, and his Wife and Children lived on the other Half; so that he had no Part of it returned to him into France."
"He said, "He came to lay Hold of the Indemnity, and to see to get an Employment by the Help of his Friends.
"He procured Mr. Stanhope to write to Mr. Secretary Hedges, to know if he might pass through England, to go to Scotland; and Mr. Secretary wrote Word, he might not."
"Being shewed the Paper, brought into the House by the Earl of Nottingham as his Narrative, marked N 9; and asked, "How he came to write such a Paper?" He said, "He was directed, by the Lords of the Committee of the Council, to give an Account of what had passed at St. German's, from the Time of the Death of King James, till he left France."
"Being asked, "How he came to begin his Narrative with what passed before the Death of King James?" He answered, "That it was all he had to say; and that there was no Fault found with him by the Lords of the Council, for any Thing in his Paper."
"Being shewed Frazer's Commission, which he owned to be counter-signed by the Earl of Middleton; and asked, "How that could consist with what he had said in his Narrative, of the Earl of Middleton's opposing all Designs, and particularly that of Frazer's?" He answered, "That he was not acquainted with that Commission."
"Being asked about the Three intercepted Gibberish Letters, which were sent in a Cover, directed to him: He said, "He knew nothing of them; and that there was another Person of his Name; and that, if they had come to his Hands, he could not tell to whom they were to be delivered."
"He refused absolutely to give the Committee an Account of any other Thing whatsoever, that had passed during the Time of his being in France or in Scotland.
"He said, "He did not know of any Correspondence that was kept by the Lord Middleton, either in Scotland or in England, from the Time he went into France.
"He denied he was sent into England, to persuade the Lord Middleton to go into France."
Lun 24 die Aprilis, 1704.
Hitherto examined by us,
"The Committee being informed, "That a Bill of Indictment was found against David Lyndsay;" they thought fit to send for him again, and acquaint him with it, in order to make him sensible of his Condition; and asked him several Questions, in relation to his Knowledge of the Conspiracy, and of Correspondence between France and Scotland and England, and particularly in relation to the Gibberish Letters. But he still continued obstinate, and refused to give the Committee any Satisfaction."
G. Mrs. Fox's Examination.
"The Committee examined Mrs. Fox Twice.
"She said, "She went over into France, about Twelve Years since, by the Earl of Nottingham's Pass; and had never since been in England."
"She was asked several Questions, and charged in particular with what was said against her by Sir J. Macleane and others; but she behaved herself very obstinately, and peremptorily, and refused to answer any Thing materially."
H. Thomas Clark's Examination.
"The Committee had Thomas Clark before them.
"He said, "The First Time he saw Frazer, was in June last; he then lay at Ipswich Arms, in Cullam Street; he lay there about Ten Days. He sent for Clark, to give him Physic.
"In October last, Frazer sent for him to The Hart's Head, in Smithfield; and came back with him to lodge at his House, and staid there about a Fortnight. The Company that came to him were Keyth and Campbell, and Ferguson Once. Campbell gave Clark a Pass for Frazer, which he carried to him to Graves End, and had only his Charges borne. He received only One Letter from Frazer, with Three Letters enclosed; One for Hill, another for Ferguson, and a Third for Campbell. Keyth called for the Letter directed to Hill, which he delivered to him.
"Ferguson read Frazer's Letter to Clarke. He sent a Letter from himself, One from Campbell, and another from Ferguson, to Frazer. He acknowledged that he met Ferguson and Campbell Twice, at The Vine Taverne in Holborne; but would not own what was said there. He owned he saw the Picture taken out of the Box, but denied he saw the Commission.
"The Committee asked him several Questions, in relation to what was charged upon him by Campbell and others; but he obstinately refused to own any Thing, nor would make any Discovery of his Knowledge of the Conspiracy."
"The Committee sent for Mr. Corbusier.
I. Mr. Corbusier's Examination.
"He owned, "He had seen Frazer about Two or Three Years since, upon Occasion of a Bill of Exchange.
"That he saw him again, about May or June last, when he lodged at The Ipswich Arms, in Cullam Street; and was with him several Times, upon Account of Money and other Business: That, when Frazer returned out of Scotland, he lodged in Smithfield, where Corbusier saw him, at Clark's Request.
"That afterwards Frazer came to lodge at Clark's House, where Corbusier was several Times with him."
"He owned, "He saw Keyth with Frazer, before he went to Scotland, in Cullam Street, Three or Four Times, and saw them often together after Frazer's coming back from Scotland; and that, for the most Part, they discoursed privately between themselves; but they did not talk before him of any Thing relating to the Plot."
"Corbusier would not own that, when he was in their Company, he ever heard them discourse of Matters relating to any Design in Scotland; but said, "His Business with them was only paying or returning of Money; and their Talk before him was only on indifferent Subjects."
K. Capt. Meers' Examination.
"Captain Meers, being examined, owned himself to be a Papist, and confessed he came out of France in May last, where he had been for Ten Years: That he came over in the Transport Ship to Harwich; he telling Captain Gibson, "that he intended to take the Benefit of the Act of Indemnity;" upon which he immediately took him on Board, without saying any more to him, than, "If you will hazard yourself, I will carry you over; but I will tell the Earl of Nottingham of it." He said, "He only gave Captain Gibson Two or Three Louis-d'ors for his Passage." He said, "He was not stopt at Harwich; and that he surrendered himself to the Earl of Nottingham the Day after he came to Town." He said, "He had no settled Pension in France; but the late King James gave him Money at several Times.
"He said in Scotland for some Time after the Revolution, but was not engaged with the Highlanders. He followed King James into France; but, being looked upon as a great Friend of the Lord Melfort, who soon fell into Disgrace, the Earl of Middleton would not suffer him to have any Employment."
"He said, "He had about 100 Crowns given him, for his Journey, some short Time before he came away. He saw the Lord Perth about a Week before he came away." He would not own any Knowledge of the Conspiracy; nor that he ever knew of any Design against England, unless at the Time of the Calais Business; and all that he knew of that was, that, One Night after Supper, King James declared, "He was just going to embark for England;" and that he was confident the Government there knew nothing of the Design."
L. Mr. Patrick Oliphant's Examination.
"Mr. Patrick Oliphant, being examined, said, "He turned Protestant before he went into France." Being asked, "Why he went to France, after he had changed his Religion?" He said, "He went thither to see the Country, and to learn his Exercises." Being asked, "Why he staid in France, after the War was declared?" He did give no Account of it. He owned, "That he had been with the Lord Perth and Lord Middleton, to desire their Protection; and that he saw the late Queen at St. German's, and the King there, and kissed both Their Hands; and that he had seen Sir John Maclean and Sir Alexander Macleane, at Paris, several Times;" but said, "He could remember nothing that had passed between them there, nor that had been done or said in France by any body:" But he pretended to remember a Discourse that he had with Sir Alexand'r Macleane, as he came through the French Army; and referred himself to what is set down in his Deposition, N 4. Being asked, "What gave Occasion for that Discourse between Sir Alexander Macleane and him?" He said, "Nothing at all; but Sir Alexand'r Macleane began with saying, "That Frazer was a great Rascal, and so was John Murray, for they had promised to come through Flanders, when they went to Scotland;" and so he proceeded with the Discourse in the said Deposition."
"He said, "He surrendered himself, when he came to London, to the Lord Cromarty; and that he asked him "If he were concerned in the Plot?" And he answered, "He was not."
M. Mr. Ogilshy's Examination.
"The Committee did send for Mr. Ogilby; who had been formerly examined by them.
"He said, "He knew nothing relating to the Scottish Conspiracy." He said, "He went to the Court of St. German's, in May last, in order to get a Pass; but it was refused to him, although Passes were granted to the other Scottish Officers, at the same Time, to go for Scotland."
"He said, "He had several Times reflected on this Refusal, since he has heard of the Plot in Scotland; and he could never think of any Reason for it, but only because he was not trusted with that Plot."
"He said, "He could not add any Thing material to what he had owned upon his former Examination, which has been already reported."
"He mentioned to the Committee some Things that he was capable of doing for the Queen's Service, and which he was willing to undertake; but, that not being the proper Business of the Committee, the Committee did not think proper to insert it in their Report, unless the House be pleased to order it.
"Mr. Ogilby mentioned again, what he had said in his former Examination, of one Mackensey, a Scottish Man, who was sent for by Monsieur De Torcy, and forbidden to go to St. German's any more; but it was discovered that he went asterward privately to St. German's; whereupon he was committed to The Bastile, where he believed him to be a Prisoner still."
N. Sir Thomas Stewart's and Ferguson's Examinations.
"The House having been pleased to order (upon a Motion from the Committee), "That Richard Boucher, Jackson, and Sir Thomas Stewart, should be taken into Custody;" and the Two former have hitherto absconded: And Sir Thomas Stewart was apprehended Two Days after the Order was issued; and, being brought before the Committee, made great Difficulties of saying any Thing at first; but afterwards he insisted, "That what he should say should not hurt himself, nor any body he accused, in case they ingenuously owned what he charged them with; and that he should not be made Use of as a Witness, nor his Confession used as Evidence at any Trial." The Committee told him, "They had no Power of themselves to make any Engagement of that Sort; but they promised to represent to the House of Lords what he insisted on."
"Sir Thomas Stewart told the Committee, "He had been acquainted with Major Boucher about Twelve Months, with Ferguson since the Year 1692, and with Jackson for some Time."
"Sir Thomas Stewart said several Things to the Committee, concerning Ferguson, Boucher, and Jackson; but the Committee did not think it proper to set them down here, because he afterwards delivered in a Pa- per of his own drawing, in which he had set down all that he had said before, which he affirmed to be all he knew concerning them; which Paper is annexed, marked O.
"Sir Thomas Stewart was very confident, "that, if he was confronted with Ferguson, Ferguson would own all that he should charge him with; and, on the other Hand, if he did not, then, Sir Thomas said, he would make no farther Difficulty of declaring his Knowledge."
"The Lords of the Committee thereupon sent for Mr. Ferguson; and examined him first alone, as to what Correspondence he had with Frazer and others concerned in the Conspiracy.
"Ferguson referred himself to what he had said in his Narratives to the Cabinet Council.
"The Committee told him, "They should take no Notice of those Narratives; but expected he should give an Account what Correspondence he kept in France." He denied he kept any.
"Being asked, "If he had not wrote to Frazer?" He said, "Frazer was then in Holland, not in France."
He said, "Clarke, who brought Frazer's Letter to him, would not deliver it to him, nor tell him from whom it came, nor how to direct an Answer, unless he would first promise to write to the Person: Which at last he did; because, as he said, he was desirous to know the Manner of the corresponding, in order to discover it to the D. of Athol; being sensible that there was some Design against the Queen, or some other Person, on Foot."
"He said, "As soon as he knew how this Correspondence was, he sent one Mr. Mason to the Duke of Athol, with an Account of it." Ferguson said, "He saw Frazer but Once; and then Frazer told him, he had been introduced to St. German's; but, Ferguson said, he had forgot by whom."
"He said, "He saw Campbell Twice, and advised him to tell all he knew."
"Being asked, "(If he meant the Preservation of the Queen and Government by what he did), why he did not stop Frazer while he was here?"
"He made Answer, "It would have signified little; and he did not suspect him, till he was conveyed away by a Pass, in a sham Name."
"Being thereupon told, "That he had owned before, that he knew this Pass was obtained for him by a Secretary of State of Scotland;" and being thereupon asked, "How he came to think ill of Frazer upon that Account, or to suspect the Pass was not given by the Privity of the English Secretary?"
"He only made Answer, "That, about a Week after Frazer was gone, he knew the English Secretary was not acquainted with it."
"Ferguson affirmed, "That Frazer never told him of any Commissions he had from France, or to Scotland; and that they never had any Discourse together about Correspondence between France and Scotland, nor of any Designs of Insurrections in The Highlands, or in any other Place; but he pretended, that Frazer said, "That he was under the Protection of the Duke of Queensberry;" but said nothing of his other Business."
"He said, "He never had but One Letter from Frazer."
"Being asked, "If he had not seen another Letter that was intended for him?" He said, "He thought he had."
"Thereupon the Committee produced a Copy of that Letter, directed to Raphson; and asked him the Meaning of the Expression in that Letter, that he must begin his Journey to his Garrison?" He said, "He supposed he meant St. German's."
"Being asked, "What was meant by General?" He said, "He supposed the Prince of Wales was meant; but he never made Use of that Expression to Frazer."
"Being asked, "What was meant by the Expression, that he would lay Ferguson's Demands before them, in the most advantageous Terms he could?"
"He pretended not to know, "unless Frazer meant to involve him in a supposed Guilt; and he thought that Men's Lives and Liberties did not depend upon Construction and Supposition."
"The Committee reading to him that Part of the Letter, wherein Frazer took Notice of the Advice which Ferguson had written to him, "not to be transported to particular Resentments, in Prejudice of his General's Interest:" He denied he had said any Thing in his Letter, that might give Occasion for Frazer to write to that Purpose.
"Being asked, "If he knew Captain Meers?" He said, "Yes; and that he called to see him, the Day after he had delivered himself to the Secretary."
"Being asked, "If he did not see him before he surrendered himself?" (which Sir Thomas Stewart had affirmed to the Committee) He said, "He could not tell; but he was sure that, if he had, he persuaded him to surrender himself." He said, "Meers advised with him, if he could not have the Benefit of the Indemnity in Scotland, without going thither; and Ferguson told him, "He could not."
"Being asked, "If he had not endeavoured to procure a Pardon for Clarke;" (which was also mentioned to the Committee by Sir Thomas Stewart) He said, "Clarke was a poor weak Creature, and, as he believed, did not know the Danger of these Things; and therefore, having made Use of him to get Light into the Correspondence, he thought it became him to endeavour to get his Pardon; for his Part, he did not inquire into Clark's Principles."
"He owned, "He knew Jackson and Boucher; Jackson he met at the Coffee-house; Boucher was his near Neighbour; but he never talked with them about Business."
"Ferguson refusing to own any Thing; the Committee sent for Sir Thomas Stewart, to confront him, according to his own Proposal.
"Sir Thomas, when called in, put Ferguson in Mind, that he had said, "He had been a great Rebel, but never had been a Traitor;" and advised him to persist in that Resolution, in Respect to the Queen, by telling the Lords his Knowledge.
"Sir Thomas Stewart then said to the Effect of what is set down in his Paper, relating to Sir John Maclean's Letter to Sir neas Mackferson, and what Ferguson had said thereupon, as to the giving Notice of it at St. German's.
"Ferguson, at first, said, "He remembered nothing of it." Afterwards he said, "He might perhaps say, that it was likely Care would be taken to give Notice of it at St. German's."
"Ferguson owned, "He believed he might tell Sir Thomas Stewart, that he had procured Letters of Frazer's to be taken; and that he had informed the Lord Nottingham where Papers were lodged; and that by his Means those Papers were seized."
"He said, "He believed he might tell Sir Thomas Stewart, that it was odd to let Frazer go about with a Commission from King James in one Hand, and the First Minister's Pass in the other; so that he made Use of the Pass to carry him from one Place to ano- ther, in order to make Use of the Commission to inveigle People."
"Upon this, Sir Thomas Stewart fell into great Compliments to Ferguson, in order to prevail with him to be ingenuous. He put Ferguson in Mind of his having often said, "That if King James came back, he would put a Rope about his Neck, and fall down at His Feet to ask His Pardon;" and advised him now, that they Two should join, and both together fall down in the same Manner at the Queen's Feet, and beg Her Pardon, and deserve it by an ingenuous Confession. But Ferguson being too obstinate to be prevailed upon, and Sir Thomas Stewart only proceeding in the same Way, and declining to go on to say farther what he knew of Ferguson, which he had before told the Committee he would say to his Face, the Committee sent them both away; requiring Sir Thomas Stewart to set down, in Writing, what he had more to say relating to the Conspiracy; which he afterwards did, and is contained in the Paper following, marked O:
O Sir T. Stewart's Paper.
"I do affirm, that Mr. Robert Ferguson does know that Mr. Frazer did make such Interest with the Pope's Nuncio in France, or by some others at the Court of St. German's, in Concert with the Nuncio, as to get himself recommended and introduced to the French King and His Court; and that the Nuncio, by himself, or in Concert, as aforesaid, did prevail with the King to order one or other of His Ministers, or some other about His Court, to cause to be given to Frazer 3000 Livres, or Louis-d'Ors, which of the Two I do not remember; and that afterwards it was agreed between the Two Courts of Versaills and St. German's, by Intervention of the Nuncio, or some others of the Court of St. German's, that Frazer alone, or some others in Conjunction with him, should be entrusted with Commissions, Credentials, Instructions, or with some such like Power and Authority, to go into Scotland, and feel the Pulse of the Kingdom, how they are inclined and disposed towards joining what Forces they could with such Troops and Forces as the French King should send thither, with all Sorts of necessary Warlike Stores and Ammunitions; and from thence to return, and make Report to the French King and the Court of St. German's, betwixt (fn. 3) and such a limited Time, or as soon as he could, of the Success of that his Negotiation: And that, pursuant to those Measures concerted between the Two Courts, Mr. Ferguson does know, that Frazer did repair into Scotland last Summer, and went into The Highlands through Argyleshire, as I suppose he has heard; and there did use his utmost Endeavours to meet and converse with such of the Heads and Chiefs of the respective Clans, and whom other he could get there, to engage, conformable to the Commissions, Credentials, Instructions, or some such like Power and Authority, Frazer had from the Court of France. And I do vouch, that the said Mr. Ferguson does know that Frazer returned from Scotland, into London, about the Beginning of last Winter; and that he did meet and converse with the said Frazer some Weeks, or thereabouts, before his Departure from hence; and that Frazer did tell the said Mr. Ferguson what is but now mentioned, at least the Substance of it. And I do say, that Mr. Ferguson did ask Frazer, "How he durst venture to go into Scotland, where he stands convicted of heinous Crimes; and that a Commission of Fire and Sword (as it runs in the Style of that Kingdom) was issued, to apprehend and seize him, dead or alive; and that, on account of these odious Crimes, he had made himself justly obnoxious to the utmost Resentment of several Great Men there, and to that of their Friends and Families?" Whereunto Frazer answered, "That he had as many great Men and Families in Scotland, who would be his Friends, as those who were his Enemies:" And that Mr. Ferguson knows, that in some short Time afterwards, it was talked about the Town, "That Frazer had procured a Pass, or Passes, for going beyond Sea, by the Way of Holland, under seigned Names, for himself and some others; particularly for One that went by the Name of Major Monrowe (who, as it was said, did come from France with him); as also for a Brother and Servant of Frazer's;" under Covert of which Pass, or Passes, Mr. Ferguson knows, that Frazer and his Companions went accordingly into Holland, in their Way to France, to make Report to the Two Courts what Success he had met with in Scotland, and especially in The Highlands thereof; and that Mr. Frazer has writ several Letters from Holland hither, under false Names; and, I suppose, Mr. Ferguson knows to whom some of those were directed and addressed. And I affirm, that Mr. Ferguson did regret, that the Court of St. German's, or any Person there, should have had any Hand in reposing such a Trust in so ill a Man as Frazer; and when it was suggested to him, "That such a treacherous Conduct should be made known to the Court of France," he answered, "That Care would be taken for so doing;" or Words to that Effect and Purpose; the greatest Part of all which, in Substance, I believe Mr. Ferguson does know.
"In the Months of November, December, January, and February, in the Years 1702 and 1703 last past, I did see and hear Sir neas Mackferson read several Letters, at divers Times, in the Quarter of Lincolne's Inn next to Chancery Lane, and in Spring Garden, or near to it; which, he said, came from Sir John Macleane, who was then at St. German's in France, as Sir neas told me; in several of which Letters, Sir John writes to Sir neas, with utmost and repeated Earnestness, "That he would employ all the Interest he had here, to obtain License, of the Queen, for him to come over into England;" and that, in divers of these Letters that Sir neas read in my Hearing, were Sentences or Expressions to the following Effect and Purpose: "That those there (videlicet, at St. German's) were now come to that seeming Resolution, as to pretend to put little or no Value upon Scotland, or the People thereof; for they made Account to do their Business otherwise." I do not think, or remember, that England was so much as hinted in any of these Letters. There were likewise contained, in several of them, Sentences and Expressions in Irish and the Highland Language, as Sir neas did affirm to me: Upon which I told him, "I did not understand that Language;" whereunto he made no Answer, nor did I in the least desire him to explain the Meaning thereof. And I do affirm, that Sir neas has a just and true Copy of what I wrote to Sir John about the Beginning of the last Spring, which he read in my Hearing. In some few Days after, I delivered him the Principal; which was sent to Sir John, as Sir neas told me. This is the Substance, to the best of my Memory and Knowledge, of what, Sir neas said to me, was contained in the aforesaid Letters. And it being told to Mr. Robert Ferguson, the Substance of what is above recited, as to the Contents of these Letters, and how hurtful they might prove to the Interest of St. German's; it was insinuated to the said Mr. Ferguson, "That Advice thereof might be sent thither, but with great Caution, that Sir John Macleane might not be brought to suffer thereby at that Court, he being the best able to explain and give the true Meaning of what he wrote, and that without Prejudice to