House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 6 April 1643

DIE Jovis, 6 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester was appointed to be Speaker this Day.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference, about the Prisoners committed for the Riot at Lambeth.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Baynton:

To desire a Conference, as soon as it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, touching the Prisoners as were committed about the Disorder at Lambeth, about a Month since.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will give them a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Baynes, Lord Morley's Servant's Privilege.

Upon hearing the Parties, Wm. Bridges, and Thomas Spalding, and also John Baynes, a Servant of the Lord Morley's, who is arrested for Debt; and it appearing that the said John Baynes is a convicted Recusant, and outlawed for Recusancy, and that the Debt will be lost if the said Baynes should die: It is Ordered, That the Speaker of this House do speak with the Lord Morley, that he would please to take some Course that Baynes may pay the said Debt.

Maxwell, a Pass.

Ordered, That George Maxwell shall have a Pass, for himself and a Horse, to go to Oxford, and return again to London.

St. Thomas, Southwark.

Ordered, That the Order shall be enlarged, for the Churchwardens of St. Tho. Church in Southwarke, to attend this House on Monday Morning next.

Orders from the H. C. concerning Ireland, for Concurrence.

Next, was read and passed these Orders concerning Ireland, formerly (fn. 1) brought up from the House of Commons:

1. An Order to pay One Hundred and Fifty Pounds to Leonard Towers, for Cloth. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. An Order to pay Seventy Pounds to Mr. Dayment, for Herrings, for Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order to pay Sixteen Pounds, Eight Shillings, to Mr. Dayment, for Herrings, for Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order to pay One Hundred and Fifty Pounds to Mr. Hodder, for Beef, for Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Report of the Instructions to the Committee at Oxford, concerning the King's Answer.

The Earl of Holland reported to this House, from the Committee, what they conceive fit to be sent to the Committee at Oxford, concerning the King's Answer concerning the Cessation brought Yesterday:

"We shall acquaint you, that we have considered of His Majesty's Answer to our Reasons concerning the Cessation, wherein though we find some Expressions that reflect much upon the Honour of the Houses, and might thereby occasion particular Replies unto them, yet at this Time we desire to decline all Disputations; our Wishes and Endeavours being only to seek the Ways of an Accommodation, which we conceive will be in such as are most ready and clear; and therefore, since there are some Expressions from His Majesty, concerning the Cessation, so doubtful as may not be resolved suddenly, and your Time already so much passed and consumed, both Houses believe it necessary, as the Time limited by His Majesty (fn. 2) will not exceed above Five or Six Days, and cannot produce any considerable Advantage to the Kingdom, that He will be pleased to proceed with such Speed in Answer to our First Proposition, as we may be both satisfied, and the Kingdom blessed in His Consent to a Disbanding, which will not only be a Rest, but such a Putting-up of the Sword as will take from this whole Kingdom the fearful Object of the bloody Dye which is upon it; which is not only our Prayers that it may be thus shadowed, but that it may never again appear, to the Destruction (fn. 3) of the People of this Kingdom: That this may be effected, they have resolved to enlarge your Power, that, if you shall not have fully agreed upon those First Propositions before Friday Night, that you may, notwithstanding any Restraint, proceed to treat and agree upon them, according to the Instructions formerly given you."

Ordered, That this House approves of these Directions, to be sent to the Committee at Oxon; and to communicate the same to the House of Commons, at a Conference, and desire their Concurrence therein.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about them.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire, at the next Conference, to impart unto them something concerning Directions to be sent to the Committee at Oxon, touching the King's Answer concerning the Cessation.

The Answer was:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference, about the Ordinance for taxing those who have not already contributed.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Cornelius Holland:

To desire that, at the next Conference, they may have Liberty to impart to their Lordships some Reasons for the passing of the Ordinance formerly brought up to their Lordships, for the speedy levying of Money, for the Relief of the Commonwealth, by taxing such as have not at all contributed or lent, or not according to their Estates and Abilities.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Conference, as the House of Commons desires.

Mr. Howard, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Thomas Howard shall have a Pass, to (fn. 4) go into France.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and, the Conference being ended, the House was resumed.

Conference reported.

The Speaker reported, "That One Part of this Conference was, to offer to their Lordships some Reasons, which moved them to pass the Ordinance for taxing and levying those that have not contributed, or been rated or taxed according to their Estates:

Reasons for passing the Ordinance for taxing those who have not already contributed.

"1. In regard of the Public Safety and Condition of the Kingdom, which cannot be without a large Sum of Money.

"2. In regard of the Parties that have Relation to this Ordinance, being such as have not contributed at all, and thereby the whole lies upon the wellaffected Party.

"3. It will prevent the giving of that Assistance to the King as they now give.

"Therefore they desire their Lordships to take the same into Consideration."

Words, by Mr. Marten, derogatory to the Lords Privileges.

There were some Words spoken by Mr. Marten at this Conference, which this House conceived to be derogatory to the Privileges of this House: The Words are to be set down by the Lords, and then to be taken into Consideration.

The Second Part of this Conference is to be reported To-morrow Morning, which is touching the Prisoners committed for the Disorder at Lambeth.

To be set down, and considered.

Prisoners committed for the Riot at Lambeth.

Ordered, That this House will take into Consideration To-morrow Morning the Words spoken by Mr. Marten, and that Part of the Conference concerning the Prisoners that are committed for the Disorder at Lambeth; and that their Lordships will resolve what to do therein, before they do any other Business.

Ordered, That this House shall be adjourned till Five a Clock this Afternoon.

Message to the H. C. to sit P. M.

A Message was [ (fn. 5) sent to] the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To let the House of Commons know, that this House intends to sit this Afternoon, at Five of the Clock.

Order for 150l. to Leonard Towers, for Cloathing for Ireland.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do, out of those Monies, pay, the 16th Day of August next, unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, or his Agents here, the Sum of One Hundred and Fifty Pounds, to be by him or them paid over unto Leonard Towers, dwelling near Algate, London, for Four Hundred Yards of Cloth, by him delivered to George Wood, Commissary for cloathing of the Soldiers in Ireland, to be by him sent towards the Furnishing of the Magazine at Carrickfergus in Ulster, and to be defalked out of the Pay of the Soldiers that shall take the same."

Order for 70l. to Mr. Dayment, for Herrings.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the Sum of Seventy Pounds, to be by him paid over unto Mr. Peter Dyment, or his Assigns, the One Half thereof upon the 20th Day of June next, and the other Half upon the 20th Day of September next after, being for Seventy Barrels of Herrings by him delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Dublin, as appeareth by the Certificate of Sir Phillip Percivall Knight, Commissary General of the Victual for His Majesty's Army in Ireland, dated the Second Day of January last, testified by Sir Adam Loftus Knight, Vice Treasurer and Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, and according to the Ordinance of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print."

Order for 16l. 8 s. to Mr. Dyment for D°.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do forthwith pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the Sum of Sixteen Pounds, Eight Shillings, to be by him forthwith paid over unto Mr. Peter Dyment, of Dublin, Merchant, or his Assigns, for Eighteen Barrels of Herrings, by him delivered into His Majesty's Stores there, as appeareth by the Certificate of Sir Phillip Percivall Knight, Commissary General of the Victual for His Majesty's Army in Ireland, testified by Sir Adam Loftus Knight, Vice Treasurer and Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, and according to the Ordinance of Parliament in that Behalf in Print."

Order for 150l. to Hodder, for Beef.

"Whereas it appeareth, by the Certificate of John Hodder Esquire, Commissary of Victual in the City of Corke, in Ireland, bearing Date the 13th Day of January last, testified under the Hand of the Lord Inchiquine, and presented to the Committee appointed to take Care of the Affairs of that Kingdom, that William Hodder Tanner, hath delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Corke, One Hundred Barrels of Beef, at Thirty Shillings the Barrel, amounting to One Hundred and Fifty Pounds, to be paid unto the said William Hodder, or his Assigns, within Thirty Days after Sight of the said Certificate (the Second not being paid), out of the Chamber of London, according to the Order of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money for Ireland do pay unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the said Sum of One Hundred and Fifty Pounds, to be by him paid over unto the said John Hodder (as Assignee of the said Will'm Hodder), or his Assigns, upon the Fifth Day of April next, in full Satisfaction of the said Beef so delivered, as is certified, and according to the said Order of Parliament in that Behalf."

Adjourn.

Adjourned till 5^a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester was appointed to be Speaker this Afternoon.

Sir Theodore Mayherne, a Pass.

Ordered, That Sir Theodore Mayherne, Doctor of Physic, and Physician, shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, to the King, and return back again, quietly.

Dr. Frayzer, a Pass.

Ordered, That Dr. Frayzer, Physician to His Majesty, shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, and return again to London.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference, about the Instructions for the Committee at Oxford;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Oulsworth:

1. To desire a present Free Conference, concerning the Instructions that are to be sent to the Committee at Oxford.

and about the Ordinance for seizing Delinquents Estates.

2. Whereas the Quorum of the Committee for to consider of the putting the Ordinance for seizing the Estates of Delinquents into Execution is too many, the House of Commons desires that the Quorum may be reduced to any Five.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Free Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired; and concerning the Quorum of the Committee, their Lordships will send them an Answer, by Messengers of their own, in convenient Time.

This House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about Instructions to the Committee at Oxford.

The Speaker reported the Effect of this Conference; which was, "To acquaint their Lordships, that they have drawn up some Instructions, to be sent to the Committees at Oxon, being the Substance of that Draught which their Lordships communicated unto them this Morning; which (fn. 6) they offer to their Lordships Consideration."

The Instructions were read, as followeth:

Latter Part of the Instructions to be left out.

Ordered, To let the House of Commons know, that their Lordships do think it fit to leave out the latter Part of these Instructions.

Commons desire the Letter to be signed by both Speakers.

And further, "That the House of Commons have desired, that the Letter sent to the Committees may be signed by both Speakers, as hath been heretofore usual."

Rights of this House to be considered.

Ordered, That this House will advise better of this what the Rights of this House (fn. 7) are in this Particular.

Committee to to send Advice how the Treaty goes on.

"And that the Committees be enjoined to send Word to both Houses, by Saturday Noon next, what shall pass in the Treaty by Friday Night next."

Agreed to.