House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 30 November 1643

Pages 317-318

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 6, 1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.

Page 317
Page 318

In this section

DIE Jovis, 30 die Novembris.


Lords present:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Essex, Lord General.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Nottingham.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Howard.

Serjeant Finch's Absence excused.

Ordered, That Mr. Serjeant Fynch, being sick, is excused for his Attendance on this House.

Committees to meet, and consider how the French Ambassador may offer Propositions to the Two Houses.

The Earl of Northumb. reported to this House, "That the Prince De Harcourt hath visited his Lordship; and by Discourse it appears that he is satisfied with the Answer returned him from both Houses; but he complains, that he knows not how to present any Proposition to the Houses of Parliament in such a Way as is fit for him to do, in regard of the Declaration of both Houses lately, he being come for the Good of the Kingdom:" Hereupon this House thought it fit to have a Conference with the House of Commons, to desire that Committees of both Houses may be appointed to meet, and consider of some Expedient how Prince Harcourt may make his Addresses to this House, with such Propositions as he shall offer from the Crown of France; and to report the same to this House.

Hereupon this House appointed

The Earl of Northumb.
Earl of Sarum,
Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and
The Lord Howard,

To join with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Doctor Aylett:

To desire a Conference, concerning something touching Prince Harcourt.

The Earl of Northumberland is appointed to make the Narrative of the Discourse between him and Prince Harcourt.

Sea Officers Petition for Pay when not in actual Service in the Fleet.

Upon reading the Petition of Colonel Wm. Davies, Captain Ric'd Owen late Rear Admiral, John Bowen, Wm. Somaster, John Stanisby, and Ric'd Blyth, Captains under the Right Honourable the Earl of Warwicke; shewing, " That, in their several Commands at Sea, (fn. 1) they have faithfully performed their Duties, having Allowance according to the Rates of their Ships during their being at Sea; yet are bound (uncapable of other Employments) continually to attend the Service of the State at Land, in the Cessation of the Sea Service, without any Allowance; that most Officers (unless Captains) have in the King's Ships continued Pay, as well out as in Employment, whereby, and by reason of their unavoidable Charge at Sea, which their Pay will hardly necessarily defray, but by incurring Debts and Inconveniences: (fn. 2)

"For the better Animation and enabling them to do the State Service, and to support themselves according to their Quality, which without some further Allowance, they are disabled (fn. 1) to perform;

"They humbly (fn. 3) pray, that as Land Commanders receive Reformadoes Pay, so the Petitioners may be allowed some additional Exhibition for their Attendance at Land (if their Lordships shall so think fit they may be employed in Land Service), wherein some of them have had former Command, rather than appear unnecessary Members, that can contribute nothing to the Benefit of the general Good; and that, being granted to the Petitioners, will not charge the State above Six Hundred Pounds a Year, or thereabout."

The Earl of Northumb. gave good Testimony of the Abilities and Honesty of the Petitioners.

Likewise the Earl of Warwicke gave a good Testimony of them; and that they stuck to him in the Service of the Parliament at first, when others forsook him.

Hereupon it is Ordered, That this Petition shall be recommended to the House of Commons, at the next Message.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett reported an Answer to the Message sent to the House of Commons on Tuesday last:

1. That they agree to the Form of the Oath to be given to the Commissioners for the Great Seal, as it came from this House.

2. That the House of Commons agree to the nominating of the Earl of Kent to be, in the Place of the Earl of Rutland, a Commissioner for the Great Seal.

3. They will take the Petition of the Lady Chandois into Consideration.

Vaneinden's Cause.

Ordered, The Cause between Mr. Vannenden and others shall be heard on both Sides, by Counsel, at this Bar, on Monday next come Sevennight.

Clotworthies and Middleton.

Ordered, That the Cause between Middleton and the Clottworthies shall be heard on Monday next, by Counsel on both Sides, at this Bar.

Message to the H. C. with the Petition of the Sea Captains, and about the Earl of Nottingham's.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To put them in Mind of the Petition of the Earl of Nottingham formerly (fn. 4) sent down, and recommended to them from this House; also to recommend unto them the Petition of the Sea Captains.

Message from thence, with Ordinances;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Philip Stapilton Knight, and others:

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Particulars following:

1. In an Ordinance for putting a Regiment of Hartfordshire into Newport Pannell, for a Time. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

2. An Order to advance Two Thousand Pounds, to be sent to Sir Wm. Waller, out of the Office of Excise.

(Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

and about bringing up the Great Seal.

3. To desire their Lordships would please to appoint a Time when the House of Commons shall come up with the Great Seal, and the Commissioners sworn in pleine Parliament.

Ordered, That the Commissioners shall be sworn (fn. 5) presently.

The Answer returned was:


That their Lordships have Agreed to the Two Ordinances now brought up; and have appointed that the Great Seal be brought up presently, and the Commissioners sworn.

The Lords ready to receive the Great Seal.

Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod shall go to the House of Commons, and let them know, that this House is ready to receive the Great Seal, and swear the Commissioners, if they will come up presently with their Speaker.

Scandalous Papers to be burnt, and the Authors to be punished.

The Lord General presented to this House a Paper, which was taken, with other Papers, about Sir Henry Anderson, at Lecyester; which Paper being a scandalous Paper, much to the Dishonour and Prejudice of his Excellency, being pretended Propositions for Accommodation with his own Conceit upon them, was kept secret, and private Particulars of it were divulged abroad, to the great Disparagement and Dishonour of his Excellency, and other Persons of Honour: Hereupon, this House thought fit to have a Conference, and propound unto them the passing of an Ordinance to this Effect, That all Papers scandalous to any Persons of Honour may either be burnt, or publicly put into a speedy Way of Examination, whereby the Person may be brought to condign Punishment if guilty, else not to be kept secretly to be made Use of to his Prejudice."

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Vane Junior, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance for putting Ships to Sea, to seize the Goods of such as are in Arms against the Parliament.

The said Ordinance was read; and this House agreed to this Ordinance with some few Alterations.

Great Seal of England brought up by the Commons.

This Day the House of Commons, with their Speaker, brought up the Great Seal of England; and the Speaker made a short Speech, to this Effect:

"That whereas the Great Seal of England was, by Order of the House of Commons, appointed to be kept in his Custody, without being made Use of until it was settled and disposed of by Authority of Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament; and it being settled by Ordinance and Authority of both Houses of Parliament, he (fn. 6) is commanded, by the House of Commons, to deliver the same to the Speaker of this House, that so the Commissioners may be sworn, and the Great Seal delivered to them in full Parliament."

Then the Speaker of this House went down from his Place to the Bar, and received the Great Seal from the Hands of the Speaker of the House of Commons, and brought it to his Place on the Woolsack; and then the Earl of Kent and the Earl of Bollingbrooke, Peers, Two of the Commissioners, came to the Clerk of the Parliament's Table; and the said Peers took their Oath, the Speaker of this House reading the Oath to them severally, as follows:

Oath taken by the Commissioners.

"Whereas, by Authority of Parliament, given you by Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament, you are made a Commissioner of the Great Seal of England, you shall swear, that well and truly, according to your Skill and Knowledge, you will perform your Duty, in the Execution of the Office."

Next, the Four Commissioners, Members of the House of Commons, videlicet, Oliver St. Johns Esquire Solicitor to His Majesty, John Wylde Esquire Serjeant at Law, Samuell Browne Esquire, Edmund Prideaux Esquire, severally took the same Oath as the Two Peers Commissioners aforesaid did, the Clerk of the Parliaments reading it unto them.

The Seal delivered to them.

This being done, the Speaker of this House brought down the Great Seal to the Bar, and, in full Parliament, delivered it to the Commissioners of both Houses.

Then the House of Commons, with their Speaker, went to their own House.

Answers from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett returned Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired, concerning Prince Harcourt.

Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page returned this Answer from the House of Commons:

That (fn. 7) they will take the Petitions of the Earl of Nottingham and the Sea Captains into Consideration, and will return an Answer, by Messengers of their own.

Message to them, that the Lords agree to the Ordinance for fitting out a Fleet.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett:

To let them know, that their Lordships do agree in the Ordinance for setting forth Ships to Sea, with the small Amendments, and desire their Concurrence therein.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Message from thence, to fit To-morrow.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, and others:

To let their Lordships know, that, in regard of some important Occasions, the House of Commons are Resolved to sit To-morrow; and they desire their Lordships would please to sit likewise, if it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency.

Ordered, That this House shall sit To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock.

The Answer returned was:


That their Lordships do agree to sit To-morrow Morning, at Ten a Clock.

Sir Thomas Dawes's Counsel not to be heard.

Ordered, That this House will not hear the Counsel of Sir Thomas Dawes, so long as he continues in his Contempt to the Orders of this House.

"Resolved, &c.

Hertfordshire Regiment ordered into Newport Pagnel.

"That the Hertfordshire Regiment, lying near Luton, shall be forthwith sent into Newport Pannell, for the Defence and Safety of that Garrison, until the Garrison can be otherwise settled, according to the Ordinance; and that the said Regiment shall be paid by the associated Counties, according to the Ordinance for the settling the said Garrison; and that, if that Regiment shall not be sufficient, that then so many Forces out of Bedfordshire shall be sent into the said Garrison as shall be thought by my Lord General to be sufficient for the Safety of that Garrison."

Order for the Commissioners of Excise to re-pay themselves 2000l. advanced to Sir Wm. Waller.

"Whereas the Commissioners of Excise in London have, upon Ordinance of Parliament, dated the 27th present, advanced Two Thousand Pounds of the Five Thousand Pounds thereby assigned unto Sir William Waller out of the Excise, and received an Ordinance of both Houses of Parliament, dated the 28th present, for their Reimbursement; and whereas the said Commissioners are ready and willing to advance Two Thousand Pounds more, upon the said Ordinance of the 27th present: Be it hereby Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That John Towes Esquire Alderman of the City of London, and the rest of the Commissioners of Excise, shall and may re-pay themselves out of such Monies as shall first come in upon the Receipt of Excise, over and above such Monies as by former Ordinances are assigned unto the Merchant Adventurers, or advanced by them the said Commissioners of Excise upon a former Ordinance or Ordinances, and to pay themselves after the Rate of Eight per Centum Interest, for so long Time as the said Commissioners shall be out of the same Sum of Two Thousand Pounds, or any Part thereof; and John Trenchard Esquire is hereby authorized to receive the said Two Thousand Pounds for the Use of Sir William Waller as aforesaid."

House adjourned till 10 a cras.



  • 1. Deest in Originali.
  • 2. Sic.
  • 3. Deest in Originali.
  • 4. Origin. send.
  • 5. Origin. and presently and.
  • 6. Bis in Originali.
  • 7. Origin. the.