House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 9 December 1643

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 6, 1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 9 December 1643', in Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 6, 1643, (London, 1767-1830) pp. 332-335. British History Online [accessed 1 March 2024]


In this section

DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 9 die Decembris.


Lords present this Day:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Sarum.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Kent.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Wharton.

Pettus and Ayliff.

Ordered, That the Cause between Pettus and Ayliff shall be heard on Wednesday next, by Counsel on both Sides; and Notice to be given to the Parties.

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons on Thursday return with this Answer:

That they will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, concerning the examining of Mr. Pym touching the Lord Wharton's Business.

Provisions and Necessaries for the Fleet.

The Earl of Warwicke, Lord Admiral, moved this House, "That their Lordships would please to take into their present Consideration how to make Provisions of Flesh, Ammunition, and other Necessaries, for setting forth the Navy for the next Year; that this Month is to be spent in the providing of all Necessaries, or else it is impossible to have a Navy set forth to Sea the next Year, there being too much Time already omitted for to further the Service.

"That, upon Advice, it is thought fit to have at least Forty-six Ships to guard the Seas, and Three Score Thousand Pounds is required to be presently advanced, for the providing of Flesh and other Provisions, as appeared by a Paper of Estimations read. (Here enter it.) Therefore his Lordship desired, that a Conference might be had presently with the House of Commons, to communicate this unto them, and desire that some Course may speedily (fn. 1) be taken to procure Monies and other Provisions, that no Time be lost to expedite this Business."

Hereupon this House Ordered, To have a present Conference with the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild and Mr. Serjeant Fynch:

To desire a present Conference, concerning setting forth the next Year's Fleet.

"The Certificate and Estimate of the Charge of the Fleet, sent to the Lord Admiral, (fn. 2) from the Commissioners of the Navy.

Estimate of the Charge of the Fleet.

"According to your Lordship's Order, we have seriously debated what Number of Men are requisite for a Fleet for the next Year's Service; and do humbly conceive, that there cannot be less than Five Thousand allotted for the Fleet, if the State resolve to keep the Seas in Safety.

"These Five Thousand Men will supply Forty-six Sail of Ships; videlicet, Two of the Second Rank, Nine of the Third Rank, Twenty of the Fourth Rank, Ten of the Fifth Rank, Five of the Sixth Rank: Of these Forty-six Ships there are Twenty-six of His Majesty's that may be fitted for the Service; the rest, videlicet Twenty, must be taken up in the River from the Merchant.

"We also conceive, that those Forty-six Sail of Ships may be distributed as followeth; videlicet,

"Eight to the West.
"Sixteen for Ireland and Seaverne.
"Eight for The Downes.
"Eight for the Scottish Coast, according to the Parliament's Agreement.
"Six for the North Coast of Ireland.

"We also conceive, that Three Thousand Men, in Thirty of His Majesty's and the Merchant Ships, will be a competent Winter Guard for the next Year.

"If your Lordship shall resolve to fix upon this Number of Men and Ships for the next Year's Service, we humbly desire your Lordship to represent to the House the State of the whole Navy for this and the next Year's Service, in the Heads following: videlicet,

"For the Charge of Five Thousand Men in the [ (fn. 3) Twenty-six of His Majesty's] and Twenty Merchant Ships, for Eight Months Service, in the Year 1644, 130,000
"For the Charge of Three Thousand Men, in the Thirty Ships for the next Year's Winter Guard, for Five Months, 60,000
"For the Ordinary Expence of the whole Navy in Harbour for the Year 1644, 18,000
"For the Charge of the Extraordinary and Ordinary Expence of the next Year's Service, in the Office of the Ordnance, per Estimation, 20,000
"For the Victuals of Four Thousand Men for Six Months, in Forty Ships, supposed to be set to Sea as Reprisals, according to a late Ordinance, 24,000
"For the Payment of the Ordinary for this Year, the Winter Guard now at Sea, the Freight of sundry Merchant Ships already discharged, and for divers other Provisions, arrear and due to sundry Men in this and the last Year's Service, the Sum of 140,000
"Total is £ 392,000

"Which said Sum of Three Hundred Ninety-two Thousand Pounds, we desire may be settled out of the Revenues of the Customs and Excise, to be paid to the Treasurer of the Navy before your Lordship proceed in the Service.

"We are confident, little or nothing can be abated with Safety; yet, if the House shall not think it fit to allow so great a Number of Men or Ships, we desire your Lordship, that, whatever they shall think fit to order, the Money may in the First Place be assigned to be paid in to the Treasurer of the Navy, before the Service be undertaken; for we are not able to wade any further in the Service, unless our Credits be preserved by current Payments.

"The Payment of the aforesaid Sum of Three Hundred and Ninety-two Thousand Pounds may be seasonably supplied as followeth:

"For Victuals and Stores for the Summer's Fleet, 50,000
"For Victuals of Merchant Ships, supposed to be set forth as Reprisal, 10,000

"The rest as the Service may require, and the State shall be enabled.

"We have propounded the Business of the Victuals to Mr. Alcock, who absolutely refuseth it by Way of Contract; but yet offers his Endeavour in it by Way of Accompt, provided he may be enabled with Monies to proceed chearfully therein, and have some other able Man joined with him in the Manage of that Service: We believe we shall not be able to get any Men to undertake the Business by Contract; and therefore desire your Lordship to send unto Mr. Alcock, and settle the Business upon him as your Lordship shall think fit, that the Service may not suffer for want of settling that Office.

"All which we leave to your Lordships Wisdoms, and remain

5 Decem. 1643.

"At your Lordships Command,

"Ric'd Cranely.
"Jo. Morris.
"Jo. Holland."

Earl of Carnarvan's Petition, that the Sequestration on his Father's Estate may be taken off.

Next, a Petition of the Earl of Carnarvon was read; shewing, "That whereas there was a Sequestration upon all his Father's Lands in Bucks, Bedford, and Hertford, his Lordship's Father being dead, and he being now a Ward, (fn. 4) submits himself to the Protection of the Parliament, (fn. 5) and desires that the said Sequestration may be taken off."

And this House taking into their Consideration that the said Sequestration is fallen of itself, and the now Earl putting himself under the Protection of the Parliament, Declared (fn. 5) it fit and just, That the said Sequestration be taken off and vacated: And it is Ordered, To send to the House of Commons, to desire them to join with their Lordships herein, for the taking of it off.

Message to the H. C. about it.

And presently a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Doctor Ayliff, to this Effect.

Order for Restitution to be made to the well-affected in Lynn, sent to the H. C.

Next was read the Order concerning Lynn Regis; to which this House agreed, with Two small Alterations; and it was sent down to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Dr. Ayliff, to desire their Concurrence in the said Alterations.

Sir John Meldrum's Order.

Also an Order was read, to pay Four Hundred Pounds to Sir John Meldrum. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Earl of Kent added to the Committee of Safety.

Ordered, That the Earl of Kent shall be added to the Committee for the Safety of the Kingdom; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons is to be desired therein.

Eastham Poor and Lady Kempe.

Next, this House heard Counsel on both Sides, in the Cause between the Poor of Eastam, in the County of Essex, and the Lady Kempe.

The Certificate of Sir John Brampston Knight, late Lord Chief Justice, was read. (Here enter it.)

Ordered, That this House will take this Cause into Consideration on Monday next.

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Sir Rob't Rich and Doctor Ayliff return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own, concerning the Petition of the Earl of Carnarvan; and that they agree to the Alterations in the Order concerning the Town of Lynn. (Here enter it.)

Message from thence, that the Sequestration is off the Earl of Carnarvon's Estate;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Lewis, Knight, and others;

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Orders following:

1. That the Sequestration upon the Estate of the Earl of Carnarvan is discharged and dissolved, the Earl of (fn. 6) Carnarvan the Father being Tenant for Life.

for the Earl of Pembroke to compound for his Wardship;

2. That the Earl of Pembrooke shall be admitted to compound for the Wardship of the Earl of Carnarvan.

Left to the ordinary Course of the Court of Wards.

about the Differences between the E. of Denbigh and the Committee at Coventry;

3. That the Lord General be desired to send to the Earl of Denbigh, to come to his Excellency's Quarters, for composing of Differences between his Lordship and the City of Coventry.

Agreed to.

for Baker to be High Sheriff of Sussex;

4. That John Baker of Mayfeild, in the County of Sussex, Esquire, is hereby nominated and appointed to be High Sheriff of the County of Sussex.

Agreed to.

for his Patent to pass the Great Seal;

5. That the Commissioners of the Great Seal be desired to pass the Patent, for Mr. Baker to be High Sheriff of the County of Sussex, and all other Writs incident thereunto.

Agreed to.

for Middleton to be High Sheriff of Essex;

6. That the like Desire is for Tymothy Middleton Esquire, to be High Sheriff for the County of Essex.

Agreed to.

and with an Order.

7. An Order to give Power to the Committee for the Ordinance of Fourteen Thousand Pounds, to sit in London, and adding some other Persons. (Here enter.)

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agrees to all the Particulars of this Message, excepting to that of the Earl of Pembrooke's compounding for the Earl of Carnarvan's Wardship, which this House thinks (fn. 7) fit to be left to the ordinary Course in the Court of Wards.

Tin seized by the Navy, intended to be exported from Cornwall to France, contrary to the Ordinance of both Houses.

The Lord Wharton reported, "That the Committee of Lords and Commons at Haberdashers Hall desired that their Lordships may be made acquainted with some Matters of Fact which were before them there, as being fit for their Lordships Consideration; and the Committee of the House of Commons have made a Report thereof to that House: The Effect of the Business was this, That, about December last, an Ordinance of Parliament was made, against the transporting of Tin out of the County of Cornwaile, to any other Ports saving to London or Amsterdam; yet the Tin Farmers have got Leave of the King (contrary to their Bonds) to trade in Tin there, and have sent much Quantity of Tin into France; and Return hath been made in Arms and Ammunition, to supply the Rebels in the County of Cornwaile against the Parliament; and that now there is in The Thames a great Quantity of Tin, to the Value of Twenty-five Thousand Pounds, taken by the Navy, which Tin is conceived to be forfeited (the Farmers having broken the Ordinance of Parliament); and the said Tin is fit to be employed for the Public."

Hereupon this House appointed

The Earls of Northumberland,
Warwicke, and
The Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and
The Lord Wharton.

To join with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to meet on Monday next, and send for the Farmers, and examine this Business, and state it, and make Report thereof to the Houses, that so further Directions may be given herein.

Message to the H. C. for Committees to meet about it.

And accordingly a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Whitfcild and Serjeant Fynch:

To desire their Concurrence herein; and that they would appoint a proportionable Number of their House to meet, as is desired.

Doctor Vane, a Pass.

Ordered, That Doctor Thomas Vane shall have a Pass, for himself and his Son, to travel into Holland, with such Necessaries as are fit for their Journies.

Clotworthies Cause.

Ordered, That the Cause of the Clatworthies shall be heard on Saturday next.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Eastham Poor and Lady Kempe.

Ordered, That it is hereby referred (upon Consideration of the Cause of the Poor (fn. 9) Alms-men of Eastham) to the Judges and the King's Counsel, to consider whether, by the Statute of Charitable Uses, a Decree made by the Lord Keeper in Chancery is, by virtue of that Statute, not reversable in the High Court of Parliament, but by a Statute made for that Purpose, more than any other Decree made in Chancery; and a Report hereof to be (fn. 8) made by the said Judges, and the King's Counsel, on Monday next.

Order for 400l. to Sir John Meldrum out of the Excise at Bury.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, That the Commissioners of Excise in London shall allow, upon Accompt, unto the Subcommissioners in Bury, Four Hundred Pounds, which is to be paid to Sir John Meldrum, for his present Dispatch to my Lord Fairefax: And the former Order of the House of Commons, for Payment of Four Hundred Pounds to Sir John Meldrum out of Sir Charles Grosse and Mr. Cattline their Estates, shall be a Security to them for the Re-payment of the same; and Colonel Walton is desired to put the same Order in Execution for the present raising the said Monies, and to cause the said Money so raised to be paid to the said Committee at Bury of Excise; and, upon Receipt of the same, they shall return it to the Committee of Excise at London."

Certificate concerning Eastham Alms house and Lady Kempe.

"May it please your Lordships,

"I have heard the Grievances mentioned in the Petition of the Alms-men of Eastham, in the County of Essex, according to your Lordships Order of the 5th of June last, in the Presence of their Counsel; and I find the Case to be as followeth:

"Giles Breame made his last Will in Writing the 1st of May, in the Sixteenth Year of the Reign of King James, and did appoint thereby that Six Houses should be built, for Six poor Men, in the Parish of Eastham, within One Year after his Decease; and did devise divers Lands in Eastham towards the Maintenance of Six poor Persons, to be placed in the same Houses, for ever; and made Sir Giles Allington Executor of his last Will; and gave unto Sir Giles and his Heirs his Manor of Eastham, which, as he did recite by his last Will, he had formerly assured upon him by Fine and Recovery, that he might have wherewithall to perform his Will; which Assurance appeareth to have been to the Use of Mr. Breame in Tail, the Remainder to Sir Giles Allington and his Heirs.

"Afterwards, 29 Martii, 1621, Mr. Breame made a Codicil, in these Words following:

"Imprimis, I intreat Sir Giles Allington to purchase Forty Pounds per Annum, for and towards the Maintenance of those Six poor Men in the Alms-houses, expressed in my Will.

"Also, I would have him purchase it in Soccage Tenure, and let that Land which I have bequeathed in my Will for that Intent remain still unto the Lordship, as it hath been heretofore.

"The Houses were built by Sir Giles Allington; but, before any Lands were purchased of the Yearly Value of Forty Pounds, according to the Codicil, Sir Giles Allington sold the Manor and Lands in Eastham to the Lady Kempe, for valuable Consideration, and left Six Hundred and Sixty Pounds in her Hands, until the Purchase of Lands of the Yearly Value of Forty Pounds; and it was agreed between Sir Giles Allington and the Lady Kempe, that the said Lands in Eastham should stand charged with the Charitable Use, until Lands of Forty Pounds Yearly Value should be purchased; and then those Lands in Eastham to be discharged.

"No Lands were purchased in many Years after the Death of Mr. Breame.

"But afterwards there being a Decree made by the Commissioners for Charitable Uses, and Exceptions taken to that Decree before the Lord Keeper Coventry, his Lordship did Decree, That Eight Hundred Pounds should be paid by the Lady Kempe and Sir Giles Allington, to certain Feoffees, towards the Purchase of Lands of the Yearly Value of Forty Pounds, to the Use of the said Alms-men; which said Eight Hundred Pounds hath been since laid out in the Purchase of Lands, in Braintree, in Essex, which is more than Thirty Miles from the Alms-houses.

"And whether the Alms-men may have the Lands in Eastham first devised by the Will, or are to accept of the Lands purchased in Braintree, being of a lesser Value than the Lands in Eastham, and further from the Alms-houses, is the Question between them, wherein they are humble Suitors to your Lordships Judgement and Direction; which I also humbly submit unto, being not otherwise able to reconcile the Differences between them.

2 die Agusti, 1641.

"John Bramston."

Order for the Committee that sit at Gresham College, to sit any where within the City.

"Whereas in the Ordinance of the Three and Twentieth of October last, for the better collecting of the Arrearages of the Four Hundred Thousand Pounds, the Weekly Assessments, Fifty Subsidies, and other Payments granted by Ordinance of Parliament within the City of London and Liberties thereof, the Committee in the Ordinance mentioned are appointed to sit at Gresham Colledge: It is hereby Ordained by the Lords and Commons, That the said Committee may sit at any other Place within the said City, as they or the major Part of them from Time to Time shall think fit; and that Henry Coles, John Everet, Robert Dawlman, and Thomas Stocke, shall be of that Committee; any Thing in the said Ordinance notwithstanding."

Order for Restitution to be made to the well-affected in King's Lynn out of the Malignants Estates.

"Forasmuch as the Earl of Manchester, in his Articles of Agreement with the Town of King's Lyn, remitted their Offence in reference to himself and his Army while he lay before the Town, but touched upon no private Injuries done by the Malignants to the well-affected: It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, That such Persons as did take any of the Goods of the well-affected, by themselves or such as they appointed, or did any Damage to their Houses or Mills, or any other Ways, shall make Restitution to all such well-affected Persons as have been damnified, according to the Greatness of their Losses; and that Colonel Walton Governor of King's Lynn, Mr. Percivall and Mr. Toll Members of the House of Commons, shall examine what Damage hath been done to the well-affected, and appoint such as have done them Injury to make them Reparation accordingly; and if any of them shall refuse to make such Reparation, that the said Governor, Mr. Percivall, and Mr. Toll, shall have Power to sequester so much of the Estates of such Malignants as will make them Reparation, and assign it to those that have been damnified."


House adjourned till 10 a , Monday next.


  • 1. Deest in Originali.
  • 2. Origin. for.
  • 3. Origin. Twenty-sixth of His Majesty.
  • 4. Origin, and submits.
  • 5. Deest in Originali.
  • 6. Origin. Carnavan.
  • 7. Origin. it fit.
  • 8. Deest in Originali.
  • 9. Origin. Almes.