House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 25 December 1643

Pages 353-355

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 6, 1643. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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Page 353
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DIE Lunæ 25 die Decembris.


Lords present this Day:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Stamford.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby de Parham.

Answer from the H. C.

Mr. Serjeant Fynch and Dr. Aylett sent on Saturday to the House of Commons with a Message return with this Answer:

That they will take the Earl of Stamford's Paper and the Business of the Garrison of Alsebury into their Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own; and that the House of Commons intends to sit this Day.

The Lord Wharton acquainted this House with a Letter which he received from the Earl of Manchester, dated at Cambridge, the 22d December 1643; which was read, as followeth:

E. of Manchester's Letter, that he had not received further Directions from the Lord General how he should proceed.

"My Lord,

"I have received your Lordship's Letter from the House of Peers. I shall beseech your Lordship to offer my Service to the House; and to let them know, that, according to my Lord General's former Orders, I have commanded Six Hundred Foot to march to Newporte Pagnell; and I have likewise sent a Regiment of Foot, to lie at Bedford, with Five Troops of Horse, and Two Troops of Dragoons: The greatest Part of the rest of the Force that is under my Command is yet in Lyncolneshire, and at this present engaged before Gaynsburgh. I have no particular Directions from my Lord General whither to march with the rest that I have with me, which at this present do guard St. Needs and Huntingdon, and this Town of Cambridge. I am ready to my utmost to be serviceable to [ (fn. 1) the Commands of] the Houses; but am in some Trouble, because I have no particular Orders, being that the Letter from the Houses do refer me to his Excellency's Orders and Directions. My Lord, I am

Cambridge, 22 Decembris, 1643.

"Your Lordship's

"Most humble Servant,

"E. Manchester."

Sir Peter Killegrew to attend the French Ambassador.

(fn. 2) Not agreed to by the H. C.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Sir Peter Killigrew shall attend and accompany Monseigneur Prince De Harcourt, Peer of France, and Ambassador Extraordinary from the Queen Regent and Crown of France to His Majesty of Great Brittaine; to require from both Houses, that all Persons whom it may concern do, upon all Occasions, give not only free Passage to the said Ambassador, his Retinue and Carriages; but also that Respect and Accommodation in his Journey to His Majesty as is fit and becoming a Person of his Quality and Eminency; and the said Houses of Parliament do expect from all Persons whatsoever a due and full Obedience to this Order: It is further Ordered, That the said Sir Peter Killegrew do carry with him no Letters or any other Matters that may be prejudicial to the Parliament."

Sent to the H. C.

Ordered, That this Order be sent to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein; which accordingly was sent down to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page.

The Earl of Denbigh, upon his Return, presented to this House a Letter which the Lord General desired him to deliver to the Speaker of this House; which was read:

Lord General's Letter, about the Differences between the Earl of Denbigh and the Committee at Coventry.

"My Lord,

"According to your Lordship's and the House of Commons Commands, I did send to my Lord of Denbigh to come hither, being the Head Quarter at this present; and likewise I wrote to the Committee of Coventry, to send some of their Committee hither, to see whether I could end those unfortunate Distempers that happened there: They being now come, and finding the Questions that have arisen between my Lord of Denbigh and the Committee (many whereof have a double Capacity, as Officers and Committees), and (fn. 3) the Business to consist much of Ordinances of Parliament, and Commissions which are all at London, and also finding it to be a Business not suddenly to be composed, I thought it fitter to be referred to the Wisdom of both Houses of Parliament, it being a Business so highly concerning those Parts: However, I shall with all Readiness submit to your further Commands.

St. Albans, 23 Decembris, 1643.

"Your Lordship's Humble Servant,


Lord General's Reason, for not giving the Earl of Manchester further Directions.

The Lord Wharton acquainted this House, "That he received a Letter from the Lord General, which was read in this House, to desire him to acquaint this House, That the Reason why he hath not given Directions to the Earl of Manchester for disposing of his Forces, was, because that he knew he was upon a Design at Gaynsburgh."

Dispute between the E. of Denbigh and the Committee of Coventry.

Next, a Letter from the Committee of Coventry to the Earl of Denbigh was read, and likewise an Answer of his Lordship's to the said Letters: And his Lordship desired, "That the Examination of this Business may be put into such a Way as the Houses shall think fit, some from the Committee being sent up for that Purpose: And his Lordship submitted himself to what this House shall please to do for the Righting of his Honour herein; and desired that this Business may be dispatched with what convenient Expedition may be, to prevent the Distractions as may else be in those Counties, to the endangering the Loss of them, the Forces of the King's being near those Parts."

Hereupon this House thought it fit to send these Papers to the House of Commons; and desire that a Committee of both Houses may be nominated, to examine this Business between the Earl of Denbigh (fn. 4) and the Committee of Coventry; and endeavour to compose the Differences between them, to the Honour of his Lordship, and the settling the Peace of those associated Counties, and for the Safety of them.

And this House nominated these Lords following:

Comes Kent.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Grey de Warke.

Any Three, to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings, with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, and afterwards when they please.

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

That the House of Commons will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, concerning the Pass for Sir Peter Killegrew.

Message from thence, with an Order;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Walter Earle Knight, and others:

To desire Concurrence in an Order concerning Clerks of Courts of Records. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

and for a Conference about Ld. Denbigh, and about Sir Peter Killegrew attending the French Ambassador.

2. To desire a Conference, touching some Letters they received from the Lord General, touching the Earl of Denbigh; and also concerning the Order for Sir Peter Killegrew to attend the French Ambassador, Prince De Harcourt, to Oxford.

The Answer returned was:


That this House agrees with them in the Order now brought up; and their Lordships will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message to the H. C. that the Lords may communicate some Papers about the E. of Denbigh.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire, at the next Conference, this House (fn. 5) may communicate unto them some Papers delivered to this House this Day by the Earl of Denbigh.

The Speaker, at the next Conference, was only to deliver to the House of Commons the Papers concerning the Earl of Denbigh and the Town of Coventry.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:


That they are willing to receive the Letters concerning the Earl of Denbigh, at the next Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, this House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about Sir Peter Killegrew going with the French Ambassador to Oxford;

The Speaker reported, "That, at this Conference, they did not agree to this Order for the French Ambassador to go to Oxford, because it doth not appear to them that he is an Ambassador; and they desire that it may stand upon the former Pass. And touching Sir Peter Killegrewe's going with Prince De Harcourt, they do not give Way to it, because of a Letter lately intercepted from Mr. Henry Jermyn for conveying of Letters from hence to Oxford; therefore they hold him an unfit Person to be employed for such a Business.

and about the E. of Denbigh's Dispute with the Committee at Coventry.

"2. That they have received a Letter from the Lord General, concerning the Earl of Denbigh and the Committee at Coventry; and they desire that the Examination of that Business may be referred to a Committee of both Houses."

Message to the H. C. about these Matters.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Rich and Mr. Page:

To let them know, that this House agrees with them for the Staying of Sir Peter Killegrewe from (fn. 6) going to Oxford with Prince De Harcourt; and that their Lordships have appointed a Committee of Seven Lords to meet, with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, in the Prince's Lodgings, to examine the Business between the Earl of Denbigh and the Committee of Coventry; and desire that they will appoint a Committee of their House, and enjoin such Members of theirs whom the Business concerns to be at the same Time at the Committee.

Order for discharging all Officers of Courts of Record, that have assisted the King against the Two Houses.

"Whereas divers Officers and Clerks of or belonging unto His Majesty's several Courts of Record at Westm. have (to the great Hindrance of the Administration of the Public Justice of this Kingdom) absented themselves from their due Attendance in the Execution of their Offices and Places, and have betaken themselves to the Forces raised against the Parliament, and have, with their Persons and Estates, contributed to the making or maintaining of this unnatural and bloody War now levied in this Kingdom against both Houses of Parliament: The Lords and Commons now assembled in Parliament (taking the Premises into their Consideration) do Order, Ordain, and Declare, That all the several Estates and Interests in the several and respective Offices and Places, of all and every such Officers and Clerks (who have taken up Arms against the Two Houses of Parliament, or have been resident in the Armies raised against the said Two Houses, or have voluntarily contributed any Money, Plate, Horse, Arms, Munition, or other Assistance, towards the Maintenance of any such Forces raised as aforesaid, or have joined in any Oath or Act of Association against the said Two Houses), are and shall be absolutely determined, and become utterly void, to all Intents and Purposes whatsoever, as if such Persons, Officers, and Clerks, were naturally dead."


House adjourned till 10 a cras.


  • 1. Bis in Originali.
  • 2. This Marginal Note is in the Original.
  • 3. Origin. that the.
  • 4. Origin. of.
  • 5. Origin. was.
  • 6. Origin. go.