Coal Trade: Minutes of evidence, 12 June 1830

Die Sabbati, 12 Junii 1830.

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The Lord President in the Chair.

Mr. Walter Coffin is called in, and examined as follows:

Where do you reside?

At Landaff Court, in Glamorganshire.

Have you had Opportunities of becoming acquainted with the working and shipping of Coal?

I have, for more than Twenty Years.

How do the Coast Duties on Coal affect the Consumer?

In the first place, they add Fifty per Cent. to the first Cost at the Place of Shipment.

Do you apply that to any particular Place?

It applies generally; but to the Place where I ship my Coal, at Cardiff, I speak most particularly.

Are you acquainted with the Coal Trade in other Places, or only at Cardiff?

I am acquainted with the Price of Coal at other Places.

Have you only known Cardiff as a Place of Shipment?

I have only known Cardiff as doing Business at it myself.

What is the Amount of the Waste of small Coal in your own Collieries?

About One Fourth of the Coal that is worked.

How do you form that Calculation?

The Restrictions and Restraints imposed by the Collection of the Duties produce an Advance in the Price to an Amount not easy to calculate. They produce a Waste of small Coal equal to One Fourth Part of all the Coal worked for domestic Uses, thereby greatly enhancing the Price of large Coal. The most economical Mode of working and selling Coal is entirely prevented by the Duties; for were these Duties repealed, the whole Produce of the Coal Mines would be brought to the Place of Consumption together, thereby greatly diminishing the Attrition of the large Pieces of Coal against each other, and preventing the great Quantity of small Coal which this Attrition occasions; and the Coal Merchant would divide his Coal, when landed, in the following Manner:- 1st, Large Coal for the rich;-2d, Large and small Coal together as it comes from the Mine, for those to whom Economy was an Object;-3d, Small Coal for burning Lime, for Manufactures, for Gas, for Smiths, and for Steam Engines. The following Calculation will shew to what an Extent the indirect Operation of the Coast Duties affect the Price of Coal; being Twenty-five per Cent. added to the Fifty per Cent. which the Tax directly adds to the Cost of the Article:

The Coast Duties operate as a heavy Bounty against Collieries depending on Carriage by Sea, and also against all the Ships employed in the Coasting Trade; and this Evil is daily increased by the Improvements in the Transport of Goods over Railways by Steam Engines. Sea-borne Coal is now excluded from many of its accustomed Markets by this Effect of the Duties. One remarkable Instance is the Extent to which Canal Navigation is pushed from the Port of Bridgewater; which Place, as well as Bristol, is allowed to import Coal from Newport, in Monmouthshire, Duty-free. Canals are made or making which will soon exclude Newcastle Coal from the whole Extent of Country lying between Bridgewater and Exeter; and the same Cause is producing the same Effects to within a short Distance of the Port of London. The pernicious Effects of the Duties confine most of our Manufactures to particular Spots where there is no Duty, and cause such a Waste of small Coal as will in future Years be severely felt in the increased Price of the Commodity on which our Pre-eminence as a Manufacturing People entirely rests. They also produce great Frauds; for the small Duty at which Culm is shipped brings a great deal of Coal to Market nearly Duty-free, which ought to pay the full Amount of the Tax.

Are you a good deal acquainted with the Trade in Coals in the West of England and Ireland?

I am; I ship almost all my Coal to Ireland.

Complaints arise more particularly from Ireland, where Coal is much less burthened than in England, from the Duty imposed upon that Article; do they not?

The Evil is much more felt in Ireland, because Money is much more scarce in Ireland than in England, though the Duty is not half so heavy.

Is there any Cause which tends more to keep down the Manufactures in Ireland, or throws a greater Impediment in the Way of the Establishment of any Manufacture in that Country, than this Check on the Supply of Coal?

Certainly, there is not.

To what Part of Ireland do you chiefly ship?

Mostly to Waterford and Cork; some little to Dublin, but not a great deal.

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Is the Market for Coal in those Places ever glutted?

Yes, at certain Periods of the Year, particularly at this Period of the Year; when the Freights are very low, and Ships are not employed in the Corn Trade, they seek Employment in carrying Coal, which creates a Glut.

There is no regular Supply sent to those Ports?

The Ships employed in the Coal Trade are generally employed in the Coal Trade all the Year round; but there are other Ships which are employed in the Corn Trade or other Trades, which, when not so employed, get into the Coal Trade as a last Resource.

With reference to what you have stated as to the Loss sustained by the Collieries by small Coal, would not that Loss be in a great measure remedied if the Duty was taken on Weight instead of by Measure?

No; I apprehend that would make no Difference whatever. By changing the Mode of assessing the Duty, the Four Shillings would still be to be paid, whether it was assessed by Weight or by Measure. From all the Consideration I have given to the Subject, I am afraid it would be open to still more Fraud if assessed by Weight than by Measure, for I am afraid Water would be added to the Weight of Coal in its Way over.

You imagine the wetting the Coal would add very much to its Weight?

Yes, no doubt it would.

What Per-centage do you imagine the wetting the Coal would add to its Weight?

A wet Coal would weigh more by nearly One Half, I imagine, than dry Coal; it would depend upon the Quantity of Wet they threw over it, and the Quantity the Ship would carry.

Would not that increase the Amount of Duty to be paid?

That would depend upon where the Duty was paid; if it was paid at the Port of Delivery, as it is now, it would increase the Duty; but if it was paid at the Port of Shipment, it would not increase the Duty.

The Proportion by which the Weight of Coal would be affected by Wet, supposing the Coal to be wetted on purpose, would depend on the Time within which the Coal was sold after such wetting?

Certainly.

Have you visited many other Ports yourself in order to conduct your Trade?

I have visited some of the Ports in the West of England, and I am particularly well acquainted with the Sales of Coal in Cork and Waterford.

Do you find the Complaint pretty general in those Places you have visited?

The Coal Trade has been affected from the Time Parliament met, under the Idea that the Duty would be taken off; and that has had an Effect on the Coal Trade in South Wales, for the People, believing for the last Two or Three Years that the Duty was about to be taken off, were very unwilling to purchase Coals until they saw whether that was the Case.

The Coal coming free to Bridgewater is in consequence of a Clause in the Act of Parliament?

Yes; of a Clause in the Monmouthshire Canal Act; which says, that all Coal carried to Bristol and Bridgewater shall go to those Two Places free of Coast Duty.

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In consequence of that Exemption, you conceive that the Supply of Newcastle Coal to the Southern Coast of Devonshire has been affected?

Exceedingly affected. The Newcastle Coal used to supply Exeter entirely, and used to be sent from Exeter to the interior Part of the County of Devon; it is not so sent now; and when the new Canal they are projecting, which will be finished soon, is finished, there will be no Newcastle Coal sent there; the Fourshilling Duty will carry it a good Way on a Canal.

What Coal is generally used at Cork?

The Newport Coal almost exclusively; we are sending a little from Cardiff now. Whitehaven Coal used to supply Cork and Waterford; but the Welch Coal has beaten the Whitehaven Coal almost entirely out of those Markets.

Is it not beginning to compete with it in the Port of Dublin?

There is some sent from Wales to Dublin; but there is none can compete with the Whitehaven for Use in Houses.

Are you intimately acquainted with the County of Devon?

I am acquainted with most of the Ports of the County of Devon.

Have you not heard that the Quantity of Wood in Devonshire is very much decreased by being used for Fuel?

No, I have not heard that; being a Collier, I have thought of Coal only as an Article of Consumption for Fuel.

Do you imagine the Number of Collieries has increased in England very much within the last Twenty Years?

I have no Knowledge of England at all, but in Wales they have much increased; in Newport there was hardly any Coals shipped Twenty Years ago, perhaps not a Thousand Tons in the course of the Year; and now they ship Fifteen hundred Tons a Day.

Do not you conceive that if the Duty was taken off there would be a much greater Quantity of Coal sold in Devonshire?

Yes.

Would not there be a greater burning of Lime in consequence?

Yes, a good deal. A great deal of small Coal would be used for the burning of Lime which is not now used for any Purpose.

Is it your Opinion that if the Duty were taken off it would be in the Power of the Coal Owners to raise their Prices on the Consumers?

I think the taking off the Duty would have directly the contrary Effect; whatever reduces the Capital necessary for carrying on the Trade must have that Effect.

You feel no Doubt that if the Duties were taken off the Effect would be a real Relief to the Consumer, and the Profit would not go into the Pockets of the Owner?

I am quite satisfied of that. The Profit of all Capital will find its Level; and if there was an increased Demand for Coal, more Collieries would be opened; for Coal is quite inexhaustible.

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Do you not conceive that the increased Consumption of Articles of Luxury that would naturally arise from the greater Cheapness of the Coal, those Articles of Luxury paying Duty more or less to the Government, would go far to compensate the Government for the apparent Loss of Revenue by giving up the Coal Duty?

I think there is no Doubt of that; for Coal being a Necessary of Life, whatever a poor Man gained from that he would lay out in some Article of Comfort.

You say there would be a greater Quantity of Coal consumed in consequence of taking off the Duty; would not that compensate for the Decrease of Price?

The Fact would be, that the whole of the Four Shillings per Ton Coasting Duty, instead of going into the Exchequer, would go into the Pockets of the Consumer.

You would be able then to send Coal to the Interior where you cannot now send it?

Yes; Seaborne Coal would go farther into the Interior in the Proportion that Four Shillings per Ton would carry it, and that would carry it over a Railway at least Fifty Miles. The Computation made, when Mr. Gurney was down in South Wales with his Steam Carriage, was, that all the Expence of making a Railroad and the Expence of Conveyance would not amount to a Penny a Ton per Mile.

Then you would be able to supplant the Inland Collieries, by the taking off the Duty, to the Extent of the Duty?

No; but they would not be able to take our Trade from us.

If you send it more into the Country, it would supplant the Inland Collieries who are now supplying it?

I apprehend that the Effect would be this: Railways have not been made many Years, and Steam Engines applied to the Conveyveyance of Goods on them; I believe the Effect would be, that by throwing the Trade open every one would be able to take it on equally fair Terms, and that no one would have an Advantage over another.

Do you not consider that the Owners of Collieries supplying Seaborne Coals have in point of fact been driven out of the Markets which they formerly supplied by Coals, both by Railways and Canals; and that the Effect of taking off the Coast Duties would only be to restore in some measure to them those Markets which they have recently lost by the Effect of the Coast Duty?

I am not aware that there are at present any Railways supplying the Inland Counties with Coals; but on the Canals, as I have mentioned, the Quantity of Coal which excludes Seaborne Coal from Consumption is very great indeed.

In Yorkshire it has been found that to a very considerable Extent the Northern Coal Owners have been excluded from the Markets of Yorkshire by the Effect of Railways and Canals?

I have no doubt that is the Case there; but the Fact does not come within my own Knowledge.

In what Way do you imagine that the Shipping is affected by the Coastwise Duty on Coal?

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I imagine that the Shipping is affected by the Coastwise Duty on Coal by its diminishing the Consumption of Coal, and its creating Disadvantages in the Employment of Ships; and besides that, by its giving a Bounty on the Coal carried by Railways and Canals, it excludes them from many Markets they would otherwise supply.

One great Advantage that would probably be derived to the Country from the taking off the Coast Duties would be a great Extension of Shipping?

No doubt the Employment of Ships would be greatly increased by it.

And the Coasting Trade in every Way?

The Coasting Trade would no doubt be exceedingly increased.

Would not the Extension of the Coasting Trade arise, not only from the Quantity of Coal which would be carried along the Coast, but also from the more extended Carriage of other Articles that might be expected to arise from the Consumption of Articles of Luxury which would follow from the Facility of obtaining Coals?

In fact there are so many Trades indirectly connected with the Coal Trade, in Hemp, Iron and Cordage, and Chain Cables, and so on, which would be benefited, that it is impossible to specify them all.

It is a Question which enters into the Consumption of every Article in the Preparation of which Fuel is used?

Yes, no doubt; for almost the whole Cost of Coal consists in the Price and Labour expended in getting it; and the Price of the Coal is expended in Purchase of the Necessaries of Life; so that not only the Trade in Iron and Cordage, and Articles of that kind, would be increased, but the Trades in Articles the Colliers consume would be benefited in the Proportion to which the Trade was increased.

Do you ship your Coals exclusively to the Ports of Ireland?

We had a small Trade to the Ports of the West of England, from which we are now excluded by the Clause in favour of the Newport Canal. We go to Barnstaple and Biddeford, and to some Ports in Cornwall.

To which Places there is a very small Portion of Northern Coal comes?

No; hitherto we have had but a very small Trade there. Ships in that Trade depending on Swansea for a Freight of Copper Ore for Back Freight, Swansea must have the entire Supply of Coals for their Engines, because they have it as a Back Carriage.

In answer to a Question put to you, you said that it is preferable, in your Opinion, to sell Coals by Measure instead of by Weight?

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I think it is a very nice Question. It is impossible in an Article of that Description entirely to prevent Fraud; but as far as I have considered the Subject, I think it would be prevented by continuing to sell by Measure rather than by Weight; for the Temptation would be so great, adding the Duty and Freight together, to wet it in the Way over, that I think more Fraud would take place in that Way than would in the present. They cannot wet the Coal now. It has occurred in my own Case, once or twice, that for the Temptation of the small Irish Duty and the Freight I have had the Coal wetted in its Way over; that Temptation would be then much increased. We consign to particular Persons in Ireland, and all they can get is the Six Shillings per Ton; now if they were to have to pay the Duty upon it, the Duty being assessed upon the Weight, they would gain, by the wetting of Coal, the Duty, the Cost and the Freight; and I am afraid they would be induced to do it.

At the Port of Delivery, would it not be very easy for the Factor or other Person to ascertain that they had been wetted, and that that had been done for the Purpose of increasing the Weight?

It would depend on so many Circumstances. If they taxed the Captain with it, he might say it was very wet Weather when they were put on board, and they had imbibed all the Moisture, and so on.

You do not mean to say that the Consumer would not be aware of the Coals being wetted?

He might be aware that the Coals were wet, but he would not be aware whether the Coals were fairly or unfairly wetted; it might be very hard Rain when they were brought down in the Keels or the Boats, and then they might be fairly wetted; but if they were wetted at Sea, by pumping Water over them, which is sometimes done, it would be very prejudicial to the Consumer.

Can you speak from actual Experiment of the Effect produced in the Weight of Coal by wetting?

I cannot; only that I know that the wetting of the Coal adds exceedingly to its Weight. I know that when it is very wet Weather, and the Coal is exceedingly wet by being brought down from the Collieries, that there is a Complaint of a considerable Loss of Weight when it has become drained in the Passage, but I cannot speak to the exact Proportion of the Difference.

Do you imagine there are some Coals that absorb more Wet than others?

Small Coal will absorb Ten Times more than the large; rubbley Coal will not absorb much; whereas small Coal will absorb a great deal.

Is there not a Difference in the sort of Coal as to its Absorption of Wet?

Yes; a soft Coal will absorb much more than a hard Coal. It is quite easy, as to Coal of one particular sort, to make exact Experiments and exact Deductions, as to that particular Coal; but I apprehend that it is quite impossible to make any general Deduction on the Subject, because Coals differ so exceedingly in their specific Gravity; one Coal will imbibe a great deal more Moisture than another, where it is all equally large Coals; one Coal breaks more into rubbley Coal, the other into what we call Coal Dust. As to the Coal of particular Collieries, it is quite easy to be done. I apprehend, from the long Attention I have given to the Subject, the Legislature would be very much disappointed in supposing that the Coal Trade will be at all benefited by any Measure of that sort-weighing instead of measuring. The only Chance of benefiting the Consumer is to make it so entirely free, as between the Buyer and Seller, that they should be permitted to sell by Weight or by Measure, or however they pleased, without the Intervention of other Parties, who make it so difficult to conduct the Trade, from its being taken out of the usual Rules by which Men regulate their own Trade. I am satisfied that any Measure short of making it quite free will not do any permanent Good.

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You apprehend that there is a great Difference in the specific Gravity of Coals?

Yes. In the Port of Waterford all Coal is sold by Measure; the Custom House Officers, in order to ascertain the Duty, have a Scale with the specific Gravity of all the Coals of all the Ports which come to Waterford; the Difference is very great indeed.

Does the Difference in specific Gravity bear any Ratio to the Difference in the Quality of Coal, as to its Power?

Generally speaking, I think heavy Coal is a slow burning Coal; free burning Coal is a light Coal.

You would say that the more bituminous the Coal, its specific Gravity would be rather the less in proportion to heavy Coals?

Yes.

Do you conceive that from the Quality of various kinds of Coal, so much Alteration could be made by their imbibing Moisture or Wet, accidentally or designedly applied, as to make a serious Difference in the Measure of the Coals by Weight?

I certainly do.

You have stated that you think other Trades would be benefited by greater Facilities in getting Coal; that those Trades would be benefited in proportion as the Taxes are taken off Coal?

No doubt, the more the Consumption of Coal was increased, the more the Interest of every Trade connected with the Coal Trade would be promoted.

Are you not of Opinion that the Six Shilling Duty levied by Government on Coal is an enormous Disadvantage to that Trade?

No doubt it is; I think that it is the greatest Disadvantage that attaches to the Trade.

Can you state any other Necessary of Life that is so highly taxed?

I do not immediately remember any now, certainly; because in the Answer I have given to your Lordships I meant only that the direct Effect of the Tax was Fifty per Cent., and the indirect Effect of the Tax was Twenty-five per Cent. making together Seventy-five per Cent. as an Addition to the Cost Price.

Is there any other Necessary of Life that can be substituted for Coal as Fuel?

No; I am not aware that there is any other in point of Cheapness or in point of Quality.

You have stated that Coal at Waterford is sold by Measure; have you not heard it stated from Waterford, and all other Towns where Coal is sold by Measure, that there are frequent Complaints that Coal Merchants will break the Coal so as to make the Coal they receive spread out to a greater Extent, so as to measure more than the Quantity supposed to be put on board?

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Every Exertion is made by Persons who sell by Measure to place the Coal in the Barrel in which it is sold at Waterford as lightly as possible, and a very great Difference in the Measure of the Barrel takes place; if it only accidentally touches the Hold in coming up they are obliged to send it down to be filled again; but yet I apprehend all those Circumstances are well considered by the Persons who buy it; they get it proportionably cheap, so that the Price of Coal at Waterford, as compared with the Price of Coal at Cork, where it is sold by Weight, comes as nearly as possible to the same thing. I have Vessels of my own in the Trade to both Cork and Waterford, and those Circumstances arrange themselves so as to make a very slight Difference when the Charges are taken into Consideration. I sold from 15,000 to 20,000 Tons last Year at Cork, where it is sold entirely by Weight, under a late Act of Parliament.

Do you think Coal itself imbibes Water?

I have no doubt of it.

The Question refers to Coal unbroken?

I have no doubt that Coal in the largest Lumps would imbibe Water, and that exactly in proportion to the Hardness of the Coal; Newcastle Coal would imbibe very little, and some of the softer Coals would imbibe much more.

The Witness is directed to withdraw.

Ordered, That this Committee be adjourned to Wednesday next, One o'Clock.