House of Lords Journal Volume 64: 17 July 1832

Die Martis, 17° Julii 1832.

DOMINI tam Spirituales quam Temporales præsentes fuerunt:

PRAYERS.

The Earl of Shaftesbury sat Speaker by virtue of a former Commission.

Marqs of Londonderry's Estate Bill, Standing Order 94 dispensed with, & Bill read 2 a, & committed.

The Order of the Day being read for taking into Consideration the Standing Order, No. 94, directing that no Committee shall sit upon any Private Bill until Ten Days after the Second Reading thereof, in order to its being dispensed with upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act for settling certain Manors and Estates in the County of Durham to the Uses of the Marriage Settlement of The Most Honorable Charles William Vane Marquis of Londonderry and The Most Honorable Frances Anne Vane Marchioness of Londonderry his Wife; and for other Purposes therein mentioned;" and for the Lords to be summoned;

And Consideration being had thereof accordingly:

Ordered, That the said Standing Order be dispensed with on the said Bill.

Then the said Bill was read a Second Time.

Ordered, That the said Bill be committed to the Consideration of the Lords present this Day:

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet on Monday next, at Ten o'Clock in the Forenoon, in the Prince's Lodgings, near the House of Peers; and to adjourn as they please.

Mangel Wurzel Distillation Bill reported:

The House (according to Order) was adjourned during Pleasure, and put into a Committee upon the Bill, intituled, "An Act to permit the Distillation of Spirits from Mangel Wurzel."

After some Time, the House was resumed:

And The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Committee, "That they had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to the House, without any Amendment."

Order for 3 a.

Ordered, That the said Bill be read the Third Time on Thursday next.

Cuninghame's Estate Bill:

Hodie 3^a vice lecta est Billa, intituled, "An Act for exchanging certain detached Parts of the Entailed Estate of Craigends, in the County of Renfrew, belonging to William Cuninghame Esquire, for certain other Lands held by him in Fee-Simple."

The Question was put, "Whether this Bill shall pass?"

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Message to H.C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Cross and Mr. Trower;

To carry down the said Bill, and desire their Concurrence thereto.

Dr. Lee's Estate Bill Specially reported.

The Earl of Shaftesbury reported from the Lords Committees appointed to consider of the Bill, intituled, "An Act for vesting the Fee-Simple of Part of the Freehold Estates devised by the Will of William Lee Antonie Esquire, deceased, in strict Settlement, in his Nephew John Lee Esquire, Doctor of Laws, subject to a Term of Five hundred Years, as an Indemnification against a Sum of Ten thousand Pounds and Interest, and for substituting Part of the Fee-Simple Estate of the said John Lee in lieu thereof; and also for appointing new Trustees of the said Settled Estates;" "That the Committee had met, and considered the said Bill, and examined the Allegations thereof, which were found to be true; and that all the Parties concerned in the Consequences of the Bill had appeared and consented thereto, except William Edward Fiott Esquire, a Lieutenant in the Royal Navy, (One of the Persons in Remainder under the Will of the said William Lee Antonie mentioned in the Bill,) who was proved to be at Brussels, in the Kingdom of the Netherlands; but that Thomas Lys of Took's Court, Chancery Lane, in the County of Middlesex, Esquire, appeared and consented to the Bill on the Behalf of the said William Edward Fiott, by virtue of a special Power of Attorney for that Purpose, which was produced to the Committee, and duly proved; and that the Committee had gone through the Bill, and directed him to report the same to their Lordships, with some Amendments."

Which Report, being read by the Clerk, was agreed to by the House.

Then the Amendments made by the Committee to the said Bill, being read Twice by the Clerk, were agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed by The Lord Chancellor.

Bills passed by Commission.

The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House, "That His Majesty had been pleased to issue a Commission to several Lords therein named, for declaring His Royal Assent to several Acts agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament."

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Then Three of the Lords Commissioners, being in their Robes, and seated on a Form placed between the Throne and the Woolsack, The Lord Chancellor in the Middle, with The Duke of Richmond on his Right Hand, and The Earl of Shaftesbury on his Left; commanded the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod to signify to the Commons, "The Lords Commissioners desire their immediate Attendance in this House, to hear the Commission read."

Who being come, with their Speaker;

The Lord Chancellor said,

"My Lords, and Gentlemen of the House of Commons,

"His Majesty, not thinking fit to be personally present here at this Time, has been pleased to cause a Commission to be issued under the Great Seal, and thereby given His Royal Assent to divers Acts which have been agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament, the Titles whereof are particularly mentioned; and by the said Commission hath commanded us to declare and notify His Royal Assent to the said several Acts, in the Presence of you the Lords and Commons assembled for that Purpose: Which Commission you will now hear read."

Then the said Commission was read by the Clerk as follows; (vizt.)

"WILLIAM R.

"William the Fourth, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith; To Our right trusty and right well-beloved the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and to Our trusty and well-beloved the Knights, Citizens and Burgesses, and the Commissioners for Shires and Burghs of the House of Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, Greeting: Whereas in Our said Parliament divers and sundry Acts have been agreed and accorded on by you Our loving Subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and the Commons, in this Our present Parliament assembled, and endorsed by you as hath been accustomed, the Titles and Names of which Acts hereafter do particularly ensue; (that is to say,) "An Act to amend the Representation of the People in Scotland:" "An Act to provide for the Conveyance of Premises, the Property of the Crown, situate between the Tower of London and London Bridge:" "An Act to amend an Act of the Seventh and Eighth Years of the Reign of His late Majesty King George the Fourth, relating to the Union of Parishes in Ireland:" "An Act for the more effectual Prevention of Trespasses upon Property by Persons in Pursuit of Game in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland:" "An Act to amend and enlarge the Powers of an Act for establishing Portman Market, within the County of Middlesex:" "An Act to invest a Part of the Entailed Estates of Brodie and others, in the Counties of Elgin and Nairn, in Trustees in Fee-Simple, for the Purpose of selling the Lands so vested, and of applying the Price thereof, or the Securities to be granted thereon, towards satisfying Debts, Provisions and others contracted by the Entailer, and for Money laid out by the Heir of Entail in the Improvement of the said Entailed Estates:" "An Act for exchanging Fee-Simple Estates of Sir Thomas Slingsby Baronet, situate at Scriven, Scotton and Farnham, and in the Parishes of Knaresbrough and Farnham, in the County of York, and not in Settlement, for a Part of his Settled Estate situate at Wollas otherwise Woolhouse, in the Township of Appleton Roebuck and Parish of Bolton Percy, in the County of the City of York; and for charging the Estate taken in Exchange with a Portion for Emma Louisa Catharine Slingsby, the infant Daughter of Charles Slingsby Esquire, deceased:"

"An Act to confirm certain Leases granted by James Weller Ladbroke Esquire of Land and Premises at Nottinghill, in the County of Middlesex; and for other Purposes." And albeit the said Acts by you Our said Subjects, the Lords and Commons in this Our present Parliament assembled, are fully agreed and consented unto, yet nevertheless the same are not of Force and Effect in the Law without Our Royal Assent given and put to the said Acts; And for as much as for divers Causes and Considerations We cannot conveniently at this Time be present in Our Royal Person in the Higher House of Our said Parliament, being the accustomed Place for giving Our Royal Assent to such Acts as have been agreed upon by you Our said Subjects, the Lords and Commons, We have therefore caused these Our Letters Patent to be made, and have signed the same, and by the same do give and put Our Royal Assent to the said Acts, and to all Articles, Clauses and Provisions therein contained, and have fully agreed and assented to the said Acts; Willing that the said Acts, and every Article, Clause, Sentence and Provision therein contained, from henceforth shall be of the same Strength, Force and Effect, as if We had been personally present in the said Higher House, and had openly and publicly, in the Presence of you all, assented to the same: And We do by these Presents declare and notify the same Our Royal Assent, as well to you the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons aforesaid, as to all others whom it may concern; Commanding also by these Presents Our well-beloved and faithful Councillor Henry Lord Brougham and Vaux, Our Chancellor of that Part of Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland called Great Britain, to seal these Our Letters Patent with Our Great Seal of Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; and also commanding Our most dear Brothers and faithful Councillors Ernest Duke of Cumberland, Augustus Duke of Sussex, Adolphus Duke of Cambridge; Our most dear Cousin and faithful Councillor William Frederick Duke of Gloucester; The Most Reverend Father in God and Our faithful Councillor William Archbishop of Canterbury, Primate and Metropolitan of all England; Our well-beloved and faithful Councillor Henry Lord Brougham and Vaux, Chancellor of that Part of Our United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland called Great Britain; Our most dear Cousin and Councillor Henry Marquess of Lansdowne, President of Our Council; Our wellbeloved and faithful Councillor John George Lord Durham, Keeper of Our Privy Seal; Our most dear Cousins and Councillors William Spencer Duke of Devonshire, Chamberlain of Our Household; Charles Duke of Richmond, George William Frederick Duke of Leeds, William Henry Duke of Portland, Arthur Duke of Wellington, Richard Duke of Buckingham and Chandos, Richard Marquess Wellesley, Steward of Our Household; Charles Marquess of Winchester, John Jeffreys Marquess Camden, Henry William Marquess of Anglesey, John Earl of Westmorland, George Earl of Carlisle, Cropley Ashley Earl of Shaftesbury, George Earl of Aberdeen, William Earl Fitzwilliam, George John Earl Spencer, John Earl of Chatham, Henry Earl Bathurst, Charles Earl Grey, John Earl of Eldon, John William Earl of Dudley, William Viscount Melbourne, Robert Viscount Melville, Henry Viscount Sidmouth, Frederick John Viscount Goderich; Our well-beloved and faithful Councillors Henry Richard Lord Holland, William Wyndham Lord Grenville, Edward Lord Ellenborough, Nicholas Lord Bexley, John Singleton Lord Lyndhurst and Charles Lord Tenterden, or any Three or more of them, to declare and notify this Our Royal Assent in Our Absence in the said Higher House, in the Presence of you, the said Lords and Commons of Our Parliament, there to be assembled for that Purpose; and the Clerk of Our Parliaments to endorse the said Acts with such Terms and Words, in Our Name, as is requisite and hath been accustomed for the same, and also to enrol these Our Letters Patent, and the said Acts, in the Parliament Roll; and these Our Letters Patent shall be to every of them a sufficient Warrant in that Behalf: And finally, We do declare and will, that after this Our Royal Assent given and passed by these Presents, and declared and notified as is aforesaid, then and immediately the said Acts shall be taken, accepted and admitted good, sufficient and perfect Acts of Parliament and Laws, to all Intents, Constructions and Purposes, and to be put in due Execution accordingly, the Continuance or Dissolution of this Our Parliament, or any other Use, Custom, Thing or Things to the contrary thereof notwithstanding. In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent.

"Witness Ourself at Westminster, the Seventeenth Day of July, in the Third Year of Our Reign.

"By the King Himself, signed with His own Hand.

"Bathurst."

Then The Lord Chancellor said,

"In obedience to His Majesty's Commands, and by virtue of the Commission which has been now read, We do declare and notify to you, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in Parliament assembled, That His Majesty hath given His Royal Assent to the several Acts in the Commission mentioned; and the Clerks are required to pass the same in the usual Form and Words."

Then the Deputy Clerk of the Crown, at the Table, read the Titles of the Bills to be passed, severally, as follow; (vizt.)

1. "An Act to amend the Representation of the People in Scotland."

2. "An Act to provide for the Conveyance of Premises, the Property of the Crown, situate between the Tower of London and London Bridge."

3. "An Act to amend an Act of the Seventh and Eighth Years of the Reign of His late Majesty King George the Fourth, relating to the Union of Parishes in Ireland."

4. "An Act for the more effectual Prevention of Trespasses upon Property by Persons in Pursuit of Game in that Part of Great Britain called Scotland."

5. "An Act to amend and enlarge the Powers of an Act for establishing Portman Market, within the County of Middlesex."

To these Bills the Royal Assent was pronounced, severally, by the Clerk Assistant, in these Words; (vizt.)

"Le Roy le veult."

6. "An Act to invest a Part of the Entailed Estates of Brodie and others, in the Counties of Elgin and Nairn, in Trustees in Fee-Simple, for the Purpose of selling the Lands so vested, and of applying the Price thereof, or the Securities to be granted thereon, towards satisfying Debts, Provisions and others contracted by the Entailer, and for Money laid out by the Heir of Entail in the Improvement of the said Entailed Estates."

7. "An Act for exchanging Fee-Simple Estates of Sir Thomas Slingsby Baronet, situate at Scriven, Scotton and Farnham, and in the Parishes of Knaresbrough and Farnham, in the County of York, and not in Settlement, for a Part of his Settled Estate situate at Wollas otherwise Woolhouse, in the Township of Appleton Roebuck and Parish of Bolton Percy, in the County of the City of York; and for charging the Estates taken in Exchange with a Portion for Emma Louisa Catharine Slingsby, the infant Daughter of Charles Slingsby Esquire, deceased."

8. "An Act to confirm certain Leases granted by James Weller Ladbroke Esquire of Land and Premises at Nottinghill, in the County of Middlesex; and for other Purposes."

To these Bills the Royal Assent was pronounced, severally, by the Clerk Assistant, in these Words; (vizt.)

"Soit fait comme il est desire."

Then the Commons withdrew.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Matter of Complaint against James Allison:

The Order of the Day being read for the Attendance of James Allison, to answer the Complaint made to the House Yesterday;

It was moved, "That the said James Allison be now called in."

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

James Allison was accordingly called in; and the Evidence of Joseph John Wright, taken at the Bar of the House Yesterday, was read; and the said James Allison, having been sworn, was examined as follows:

"You have heard what has been now read to you?"

"Yes, I have, my Lord."

"Have you any other Account to give of the Transaction than what has been given in the Evidence of Mr. Wright?"

"I conceived that Mr. Wright in his Speech to their Lordships imputed to me Falsehood, and when I met him in The King's Entrance, he appeared to me then to look on me with Scorn, and I took him by the Nose. I beg Pardon for having committed so enormous a Breach of the Privileges of your Lordships House; and I rely on your Lordships Mercy in looking over it, if it may please your Lordships."

"Was it your Intention in doing so to insult Mr. Wright?"

"It certainly was, my Lord."

"Have you any thing further to state?"

"I was not aware that I was committing a Breach of Privilege at the Time; I am exceedingly sorry for having done so, and I rely on the Mercy of your Lordships."

"Did you act under the Influence of Irritation arising from what had passed in the Committee?"

"I was under strong Excitment at the Time I passed Mr. Wright?"

"Was it under the Influence of Irritation arising from a Recollection of the Remarks made on you by Mr. Wright in the Committee?"

"It certainly was."

"That Irritation being increased by what you thought you observed in the Expression of his Countenance as you passed?"

"It certainly was."

"Have you since that taken an Opportunity of expressing any Regret to Mr. Wright personally?"

"No, I certainly have not. I am exceedingly sorry for what I have done. I am sorry to say that my Feelings got the better of my Judgment."

Then the said James Allison was directed to withdraw.

It was moved to resolve, "That the said James Allison, by his Conduct, has been guilty of a gross Breach of the Privileges of this House."

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

James Allison committed to the Custody of the Black Rod.

Then it was moved, "That the said James Allison be, for his said Offence, committed to the Custody of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod."

The Question was put thereupon?

It was resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordered, That the said James Allison be, for his said Offence, committed to the Custody of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod."

Further Complaint of a Breach of the Privilege of the House on Sunderland Dock Bill:

Complaint was made to the House, by a Lord, "That a Challenge had been sent by Mr. Abbs, Solicitor for a Bill depending in this House, intituled, "An Act for making and maintaining a Wet Dock on the North Side of the River Wear, at or near the Entrance of the Port of Sunderland, in the County Palatine of Durham," through Mr. Thorpe, to Joseph John Wright, Solicitor for the Opponents to the said Bill, for his Conduct in the Business before the Committee on the said Bill."

Then Joseph John Wright was called in; and having been sworn, was examined as follows:

"Besides the Circumstances which you gave Evidence of Yesterday, has any thing else passed of a personal Nature between you and any other Individual in the Course of the Sunderland Dock Committee, or subsequent?"

"On Saturday gone a Week I met Mr. Abbs, One of the Solicitors for this Bill, in Parliament Street; he stated to me, that when the Business was over, alluding to the Business of the Committee, he meant to call on me for an Explanation of a serious Nature. I replied, "If you require any Explanation from me, you had better let me know what it is." We parted, and nothing further passed. When I was present before the Committee I took a Part in a Discussion which arose respecting some Lime Duties. Mr. Abbs came up to me, and said, "I mean, when the Business is over, to call on you for an Explanation of a Publication you have circulated among their Lordships." I said, "If I have circulated any Publication among their Lordships affecting your Honor, you ought to call on me immediately." That was all that passed on that Occasion. At Twelve o'Clock on Monday Night gone a Week, a Gentleman called at my Lodgings, and wished to see me; he was told by the Servant that I had been in Bed a long Time. I was awoke at Twelve o'Clock by a violent Knocking at my Lodging Room Door; I asked Half a Dozen Times who was there, without receiving any Answer. At length a Gentleman said, "My Name is Thorpe; I come with a Message from Mr. Abbs." I opened the Door immediately, and requested he would sit down. He produced a printed Statement, which myself and my Colleague, by the Instruction of our Clients, had printed and given to their Lordships, in Answer to a Statement we had understood had been told, and had seen published on the other Side; that Statement alleged, that the Excitement prevailing in the Town of Sunderland on the Bill had been produced by Misrepresentation on the Part of the Solicitors opposing the Bill. We thought it right, in order to contradict that Statement, in the printed Statement of our Case to your Lordships to repudiate the Charge, and, as near as I can recollect, the Passage was this - I did not expect to be called on, or I would have brought the Papers.- The Passage was this, "The Promoters of this Measure, with that Degree of Misrepresentation that has characterised all their Proceedings, have alleged that the Excitement prevailing in the Town of Sunderland has been occasioned by the Solicitors to the South Side Dock Bill." In answer to that Charge we state, "that the Excitement was not produced by the Solicitors, but by Feeling entertained in Sunderland, that the Bill, if it passed, would be most injurious to the Prosperity of the Town." The Gentleman laid that Statement before me, and said, "I have been requested by Mr. Abbs to ask you whether you mean to allude to him, to Mr. Allison, or to any one of the Promoters of the Measure, in the Passage wherein you say "with that Degree of Misrepresentation that has characterised all their Proceedings." I said, "I deny the Right of Mr. Abbs, or any other Person, to call on me for an Explanation of this Matter." I said, "You have come to me at an improper Time of Night. I have seen in the Conduct of Mr. Abbs, for the last Two or Three Days, a Wish to raise a Quarrel with me in a Matter purely of Professional Business. I shall give you no further Answer Tonight, than to say, you shall hear from me To-morrow by Letter, or I will request a Friend to call on you." I consulted my Colleague, Mr. Kidson, on my rising in the Morning, and he advised me to write to the Gentleman, to request that the Message given to him might be put in Writing before I gave an Answer. I received an Answer to say, he inclosed me a Copy of a Letter, which were his Instructions from Mr. Abbs, in which Mr. Abbs demanded an Apology, or Disavowal of all contained in the Statement. I wrote to him to say, that I must know more specifically what was the Message he was instructed to deliver. The Receipt of my Letter, he said, shewed a Subterfuge to get off giving an Explanation, and he would expect to hear from me, or something of that kind, forthwith. He put the Question in Writing. I wrote an Answer, to say that I thought Mr. Abbs had no right to call on me for an Explanation of the printed Statement published on the 12th June, at the Request of my Clients; that I observed, from the Conduct of Mr. Abbs, that he meant to raise a personal Quarrel with me, and I begged to say, I would not be irritated in a Matter of Professional Business by any thing he might say or do. He wrote an Answer to say, that I had no right to shelter myself under my Professional Character, and that as soon as the Matter was over it should be properly adjusted. Since then I have had no further Intercourse with the Parties."

"Was the Origin of this Offence taken by Mr. Abbs a Print that you circulated among the Members of this House?"

"It was."

"It began with that?"

"I am quite certain Mr. Abbs was fully aware of the Matter; I think it was in consequence of alluding to him in my Statement of the Case to the Committee."

"In a printed Statement, or the Statement to the Committee?"

"The printed Statement was what he alleged as the Cause of it."

"Circulated by you?"

"Yes, among their Lordships; to the Effect I have mentioned to your Lordships."

"How do you know that the Solicitor sent you the Message?"

"The Gentleman stated so, and shewed me a Copy of the Letter which contained his Instructions from Mr. Abbs."

"Was not the Gentleman Mr. Abbs?"

"No; a Mr. Thorpe."

"Was the Letter signed by Mr. Abbs?"

"It was a Copy of a Letter; Mr. Abbs' Name was written to it by the Gentleman who had copied it."

The Witness was directed to withdraw.

R. S. Thorpe to attend.

Ordered, That Richard Swarley Thorpe do attend this House To-morrow.

Adjourn.

Dominus Cancellarius declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque ad et in diem Mercurii, decimum octavum diem instantis Julii, horâ undecimâ Auroræ, Dominis sic decernentibus.