House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 13 November 1644

Pages 62-63

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 7, 1644. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

This free content was digitised by double rekeying. All rights reserved.

Page 62
Page 63

In this section

Die Mercurii, 13 die Novembris

Prayers, by Mr Gouge

Ds Grey de Warke, Speaker

Comes Kent
Comes Bolingbrooke
Comes Rutland
Comes Stanford
Comes Nottingham
Comes Denbigh
L Viscount Say & Seale
Ds North
Ds Willoughby
Ds Mountague
Ds Dacres
Ds Howard
Ds Bruce
Ds Berkley
Ds Maynard

Answer from the H C

Sir Rob't Rich and Mr Page return with this Answer from the House of Commons

That they agree with their Lordships in the Alterations in the Ordinance, concerning the Mitigation of a Clause in the Ordinance which gives Power to the Commissioners of Martial Law (Here enter)

Ordinance concerning Rutland

Ordered, That the Committee for the Ordinance for Rutlandshire shall meet To morrow Morning

Jennings and Dawes

Ordered, That the Cause between Mr Jennings and Sir Thomas Dawes shall be heard, by Counsel, at this Bar, the next Friday after the End of this Term

Message from the H C with a Letter and Order.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons by Mr Stroude and others

1 To desire their Lordships Concurrence in a Letter, for the quickening the collecting of the Assessments, and desire that this and other Letters of the like Nature to other Countes may be signed by the Speakers of both Houses (Here enter it)

Read, and Agreed to, and such other Letters of this Nature be signed hereafter

2 To desire Concurrence in an Order for paying Five Thousand Pounds, for the Affairs of the West

(Here enter it)

Read, and Agreed to

The Answer returned was


That this House agrees to the Two Orders now brought up

Symonds, Ld. Hunsdon's Servant, Privilege

Upon reading the Petition of Wm Symonds, com plaining, "That he, being Servant to the Lord Huns don, and hath a Protection from him, as arrested, contrary to the Privilege of Parliament," and upon read ing also the Letter of the Lord Hunsdon, acknowledging him to be his Bailiff employed by his Lordship in all Services of that Nature It is Ordered, That the said Wm. Symonds shall enjoy his Privilege, as his Lordships Servant

The Lord Viscount Say & Seale reported a Letter from the Committee of both Kingdoms, sent to them from the Earl of Manchester, &c

Letter from the E. of Manchester &c that the King a Forces are gone from Newbury to Marlborough

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"According to your Commands, we hold it fit to give you a constant Account of the Enemy's Motions.

"Yesterday they marched to Lamborne and Wantage, they carried with them but Two Pieces of Ordnance out of the Castle, and have left Ten there, for Want of Draughts to carry them so suddenly away We hear this Day, that they are marched from Lamborne to Morleborough Some of out Intelligence is, that a Part of their Army is gone by Wantage As we hear more certainly of the Enemy's Motions, we shall give your Lordships an Account of it, and expect your Orders and Directions, which we shall obey, is

"Your Lordships most humble Servants,

Newberry 11th Nov 1644

"E Manchester
"W Balfore
"Wm Wailer
"Arthur Hesilrici

"For the Committee of both King doms sitting at Derby House

Proposal from the Committee of both Kingdoms to avoid Disputes about Precedency among the Persons who are to present the Propositions to the King

The Lord Viscount Say & Seale acquainted this House, "That he was appointed, by the Committee of both Kingdoms, to propound something to the Lords Consideration, for preventing any Scruple as may rall out, which is, that whereas this House hath nominated Two Barons, to join with a proportion able Number of the House of Commons, to present the Propositions to the King, the House of Commons having named the Lord Viscount Wenman, who is an Irish Viscount, and the Scotts Commissioners have appointed a Peer of Scotland, they desire that all oc casional Question of Precedency in this Business may be avoided, when they come to present the Proposi tions to the King The Committee desire their Lord ships further Resolution in this Particular"

Hereupon this House, taking this Business into Con sideration, named the Earl of Denbigh, Lord Viscount Say & Seale, the Lord North, and the Lord Howard, to draw up the Sense of the House upon this Debate, that so it may be returned to the Committee of both Kingdoms for their Directions.

Authority for Committees of both Houses, and One of the Scotch Commissioners, to present the Propositions to the King.

Next, the Lord Viscount Say & Seale presented to this House a Paper from the Committee of both Kingdoms; which was read, as followeth:

"Whereas the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament have nominated and appointed (fn. 1) Francis Lord Willoughby of Parham, Wm Lord Maynard, Members of the House of Peers, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzell Holles Esquire, Wm. Pierrepont Esquire, and Bulstrode Whitlocke Esquire, Members of the House of Commons; and the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, residing near the Parliament, have appointed John Lord Maitland, Sir Charles Erskine Knight, and Mr. Robert Barclay, to present the Propositions of both Kingdoms for a safe and well grounded Peace to His Majesty: The said Lords and Commons do nominate and appoint, and do hereby give Power and Authority unto, the said (fn. 2) Francis Lord Willoughby, Wm. Lord Maynard, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzell Holles Esquire, Wm. Pierrepont Esquire, and Bulstrode Whitlocke Esquire, as a joint Committee with the beforementioned Commissioners, to go unto His said Majesty, and to deliver unto Him the Propositions agreed upon by both Kingdoms for a safe and well-grounded Peace; and to desire of His Majesty, that they may receive His Answer in Writing; and, upon Receipt of the said Answer, to return back to the Houses with all convenient Speed."

Ordered, That this House Agrees to this Paper; and that the Concurrence of the House of Commons be desired herein.

Answer to the Committee of both Kingdoms, about the Precedency of the Persons who are to deliver the Propositions.

The Earl of Denbigh reported what the Committee had prepared in Answer to what was moved from the Committee of both Kingdoms; which was read, as followeth:

"The Lords conceive it fit, as what hath been used in all Addresses to the King from both Houses, that the Members of the House of Peers, who represent that House, in the Presentation of the Propositions of Peace to the King, are in all Public Audiences to precede: In other Private Meetings, the Lords are left to the Rules of usual and common Civility."

Ordered, That this House approves of this Answer; and that it be delivered to the Committee of both Kingdoms, as the Sense of this House.

Circular Letter to several Counties, to quicken the Collection of Assessments.


Whereas the City of London have, at the Request of both Houses of Parliament, lent the Sum of Fifty Thousand Pounds, for the Public Service of the Kingdom; and the Money to be raised upon the Weekly Bill of Assessment for Two Months was assigned unto them for Re-payment: The Lords and Commons in Parliament, having received Information that there is much Money arrear and unpaid in your County upon that Weekly Assessment, which tendeth not only to the Disappointment of that City, but to the Prejudice of the Public, whose Faith is engaged there; you are therefore hereby required forthwith to pay in the Monies already by you collected, to the Treasurers appointed to receive the same; and that you use all Speed and Diligence to collect what is in Arrear, and to pay in the same accordingly; and you are further required to collect and pay in all the Arrearages due or uncollected upon the Bill of Four Hundred Thousand Pounds, and to give Account of your Proceedings herein to the Committee of Lords and Commons for Advance of Money at Habberdashers Hall; whereof you are not to fail. 13 Novem. 1644."

Order for 500l. for the West.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Five Hundred Pounds be forthwith paid, out of the Monies that come in at Habberdashers Hall, to the Committee for the West, to be disposed of as they shall direct, for the Advance of additional Forces to be sent into the West."

Ordinance to mitigate a Clause in the One for Martial Law.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Articles of War concerning Soldiers Departures from their Colours without Leave, referred to be proceeded upon by the Commissioners for Martial Law, and, according to Command, lately published by Sound of Trumpet and Beat of Drum throughout the Lines of Communication, shall, touching Offences of that Nature committed before the said late Publication, be thus interpreted and enlarged, ["That it shall be in the Power of the said Commissioners to punish the Offenders with Death, or other Corporal Punishment, at Discretion"]."


House adjourned till 9a cras.


  • 1. Basil E. of Denbigh.
  • 2. Basil E. of Denbigh.