House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 18 February 1646

Pages 174-176

Journal of the House of Lords: Volume 8, 1645-1647. Originally published by His Majesty's Stationery Office, London, 1767-1830.

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In this section

DIE Mercurii, 18 die Februarii.

Prayers, by Mr. Harris.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.
Comes Kent.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Nottingham.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Essex.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. North.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Bruce.

Sir R. Carr to attend.

Ordered, That Sir Rob't Carr shall attend this House this Day, to be a Witness in the Business appointed to be heard this Day, concerning the Complaint of Rob't Carr Gentleman.

Heads for a Conference about the Propositions.

The Lord Roberts reported from the Committee, what was to be offered at the Conference with the House of Commons this Day, concerning the Propositions; which was read, and approved of.

"1. That it is necessary that the Demands to the King should be clear, and such as may so appear to the World.

"2. That, Religion being a main Part of our Desires, we should therein be certain and determinate; which, as the Proposition came from the House of Commons, appears not so evident: And therefore my Lords have thought it necessary to adhere unto these Words ["in Pursuance of what is already agreed unto by both Houses"], which shews what Kind of Reformation in Religion both Houses of Parliament do desire.

"3. That my Lords find no Objection against their additional Clause, unless there be a Doubt of prosecuting that Kind of Church Government, into which both Houses of Parliament have already made some Progress; wherefore, to prevent such Ambiguities in this Particular as may be picked out of the Stile, or objected to our Meaning, my Lords do insist upon their Amendment of this Proposition."

Message from the H. C. with an Order, and a Declaration about Ambassadors, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Ashurst;

To desire Concurrence in these Particulars:

1. An Order for a Collection for the Soldiers at Chester. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. A Declaration concerning Ambassadors and Foreign Agents.

The Answer returned was:


That this House agrees to the Order for the Collection; and as concerning the Order concerning Ambassadors, their Lordships (fn. 1) will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

James's Cause, an Appeal from the Court of Admiralty.

The Earl of Warwicke reported from the Committee of Foreign Affairs; which was read, as follows:

"The Right Honourable the Earl of Warwicke is desired to make Report unto the House of Peers, That this Committee, by virtue and in Pursuance of their Order, have proceeded in the Examination of the Petition of John James; Merchant, of South'ton; and find that there are a Primum & Secundum Decretum passed in the Court of Admiralty against the Spanish Hull at the Isle of Wight, which the Petitioner saith he will by Law maintain to be void; but we have no Power to hear the same, and that it is to be determined before their Lordships."

Ordered, That the Counsel of the said John James shall be heard, at this Bar, on the First Tuesday in March next; at which Time the Primum & Secundum Decretum shall be brought to this House, for the further Information of this House.

Major Willet and Squire.

Edward Willett was brought to the Bar, by a Habeas Corpus; he being in Execution at the Suit of John Squire.

And in regard he is in Execution; it is Ordered, That it be referred to the Earl of Denbigh and Earl of Stamford, to call the said Edward Willett and John Squire before them, and see whether the said Squire will be contented to accept of an Assignment of his Debt out of the Arrears which the State owes him for his Service; and to report the same to this House on Friday Morning next: And an Order that John Squire be brought before the said Committee, he being in Prison.

Declaration concerning Ambassadors, &c.

The Declaration concerning Ambassadors and Foreign Agents was read, and committed to the Consideration of these Lords following:

Comes Warwicke.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Lyncolne.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. North.
Ds. Howard.

Any Five, to meet on Friday Morning next, at Nine of the Clock.

Ewers & al. to pay Mr. Harris, Minister of St. Buttolph's Bishopsgate, his Dues.

This Day the Persons that refuse to pay Tithes to Mr. Harris, who officiates the Living of Buttolph's Bishopsgate, were at the Bar, with their Counsel.

And they being demanded by the Speaker, "What the Reason is, that they refuse to pay their Tithes to the said Mr. Harris?"

And the Answer was, "Because they conceive that there is no Law for the Payment of Tithes; but they have offered so much as a Gift to Mr. Harris as formerly their Tithes came to."

Hereupon this House, upon Consideration, Ordered, That the said Persons shall pay forthwith to Mr. Harris his Dues; and that the Lord Mayor of the City of London is desired to see this Order performed, if they refuse speedily to pay their Dues to Mr. Harris; and that they pay their Dues in Arrears to Mr. Vincent, who officiated that Cure before Mr. Harris came there.

Sir R. Carr to attend.

Ordered, That Sir Rob't Carr shall attend this House on Friday Morning next, to be present at the Hearing of the Cause upon the Petition of Rob't Carr Gentleman, and to (fn. 2) be examined as a Witness on the Behalf of the said Mr. Carr; and that the Gentleman Usher attending this House do give Notice to the said Sir Rob't Carr.

Ld. Dacres and the E. of Arundel.

The Answer of the Lord Dacres to the Petition of the Servant of the Earl of Arrundell was read, concerning the putting of his Servants of Possession in a House of his in the North, by Force.

(Here enter it.)

Ordered, That this House thinks it fit (the Earl of Arrundell and the Lord Dacres waving their Privileges) that the Matter of the Title in the Land be left to the Decision of the Law.

Ordered, That the Certificates concerning this Business and the Petition shall be sent to the Governor of Carlile, who is desired to certify his Answer to this House concerning that Business.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer to the Message sent to the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Alterations in the Ordinance for making Sir George Vane Sheriff of the County Palatine of Durham: To the rest of the Particulars, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

(Here enter it.)

Message from the H. C. with Instructions for Persons going into the West.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Earles, &c.

To desire Concurrence in some Instructions to be sent to some Persons as are to be sent into the West.

The Answer returned was:


That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Ld. Dacres's Answer to Orfeur's Petition in Behalf of the E. of Arundel.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in Parliament.

"The humble Answer of Francis Lord Dacre to the Petition of Cuthbert Orfeur;


"This Respondent saith, That he hath a just Title to the Barony of Burghe, in the County of Cumberland, whereof the Demesnes of the dissolved Castle of Dunboughe are Parcel; but this Respondent knoweth not by whose Demise, or for what Time, the said Cuthberd held the same: Neither can the Pretence of long Possession any Way prejudice this Respondent's Title, inasmuch as this Respondent is intitled by virtue of a Remainder that hath fallen to this Respondent few Years since, by virtue of an Act of Parliament made Anno 12° Ed'ri Quarti.

"This Respondent further saith, That, in Prosecution of his just Title to the Premises, this Respondent did give a Warrant of Attorney to John Hodgson, to make an Entry, and by due Means to take Possession of the said Demesnes, as was lawful for him to do.

"And this Respondent believeth that the said John Hodgston did enter upon the said Demesnes in the Respondent's Right; but believeth that he used no unlawful Force, as in the said Petition is pretended, as well for that he had no such Commission from this Respondent, as also for that there is no House upon the Premises that is capable of any Strength or Force.

"And as touching the Proceeding and Certificate of the Committee of Cumberland, this Respondent conceiveth the same will not weigh much in your Lordships Judgements, because it appeareth to be made only upon the Information and Complaint of the Petitioner, and for that, as this Respondent conceiveth, they had neither Power to determine, or Warrant to certify upon the said Complaint; but saith, that the Premises are determinable by an ordinary Course of Law: And because it is pretended by the said Petition, That the Petitioner is not relievable by an ordinary Course in respect of this Respondent's Privilege; this Respondent saith, That, in case those who pretend Title to the said Barony and Lands will be content to do the like, this Respondent shall submit both his Title, the Manner of his Entry, and the Proceedings of his Servants, to the ordinary Course of Justice, without taking Advantage of his Privilege, for the Protection either of the one or the other against the Course of Law, that so both Parties may proceed upon equal Terms to the settling of the said Differences: And forasmuch as the Pretence of a forcible Entry is a Matter determinable in ordinary Course of Justice without troubling of this High Court therewith, and forasmuch as this Certificate is without Warrant or Authority, the Respondent prayeth that the said Petition be dismissed."

Order for a Collection for the Soldiers at Chester.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That a Public Collection be made, in all Churches and Chapels within the Cities of London and Westm. and Lines of Communication, upon Thursday next, being a Day appointed for a Public Thanksgiving for the reducing of the City of Chester; and that the Money that shall be so collected be paid, by the Churchwardens and other Officers of the said several Churches and Chapels, on the Monday following, the 23th of this Instant February, unto Thomas Stone, Citizen of London, at the Sign of The White Horse in Catteaten-Streete, for the Use and Relief of the sick and maimed Soldiers of the late Leaguer of Chester, and other miserable poor Persons there; and the Lord Mayor of London is desired to give timely Notice hereof to the Ministers of the several and respective Places accordingly."

"An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, whereby Sir George Vane is appointed and authorized to be High Sheriff of the County Palatine of Duresme and Sadberge; and for regulating of some other Things concerning the said Office, and Supply of Justice in that County.

Ordinance for Sir G. Vane to be Sheriff of Durham.

"The Lords and Commons, taking into Consideration the Necessity of appointing an High Sheriff for the County Palatine of Duresme and Sadberge, for that heretofore all Writs and Process out of the Exchequer, and some other Courts at Westm. were directed to the Bishop himself, who made a Mandate thereupon to the Sheriff, to proceed therein according to the Command and Direction of such Writ or Process; and Writs and Process issuing out of the Chancery at Durham, and other Courts there, were directed immediately to the Sheriff of that County, which Sheriff was heretofore appointed by the said Bishop of Durham for the Time being, and not in such Course as other Sheriffs of other Counties of this Kingdom are; and for that no Sheriff hath of late been appointed for that County; do think fit to Order and Ordain, and be in Ordained by the said Lords and Commons, That Sir George Vane Knight shall be, and is hereby authorized and appointed to be, Sheriff of the said County; and do commit unto him the said Sir George Vane the Office of Sheriff, and the Custody of the said County Palatine of Duresme and Sadberge, to have and execute the same for and during the Space of One whole Year next after the passing of this Ordinance, in as large and ample Manner as any other Sheriff of any other County of this Realm may or ought to do.

"And the said Lords and Commons do further Ordain, That the Commissioners of the Great Seal of England shall issue out a Commission, under the Great Seal, unto Christopher Fulthropp, Thomas Bowes, Richard Lilburne, George Lilburne, Esquires, or to any Two of them, thereby commanding and enabling them, the said Christopher Fulthropp, Thomas Bowes, Richard Lilburne, and George Lilburne, or any Two of them, to minister unto the said Sir George Vane the Two usual Oaths; to wit, the Oath for the due Execution of the Office of the said Sheriff, and the Oath of Supremacy; and the said Commissioners are hereby authorized and commanded to return in the said Commission to them directed, and the Execution thereof, into the Chancery of England, there to remain of Record; which shall be a sufficient Discharge to them the said Commissioners, and every of them, in that Behalf.

"And whereas, by a Statute made at Westm. the 4th Day of February, in the 31th Year of the late Queen Elizabeth of Famous Memory, Proclamations upon all Writs of Exigent, against any Person or Persons dwelling within the County Palatine of Durham, are to be directed to the Bishop of Durham for the Time being, and, during the Vacation of the Bishopric, then to the Chancellor of the said Bishopric or County Palatine for the Time being, and not to the Sheriff of any other Shire next adjoining to the said Bishopric or County Palatine: It is hereby Ordained, That all Proclamations upon Exigents, against any Person or Persons dwelling within the said County Palatine, shall be directed immediately to the said Sheriff; and the said Sheriff is hereby required and authorized to cause Proclamation to be made of the same Writs of Proclamation according to the Tenor of the same, and shall make true Returns of the same, in such Court and Courts, and before such Justices, as the Tenor of the same Writ and Writs of Proclamation shall require and demand; the said Statute of Queen Elizabeth, or any other Matter or Thing to the contrary thereof, in any Wise notwithstanding.

"And it is further Ordained, by the Lords and Commons, That all Writs of special Capias Utlagatum, single Capias Utlagatum, Non molestando, and all other Process and Writs issuing out of any the Courts at Westm. for or against any Person or Persons resiant within the said County Palatine, shall and may from henceforth be directed from Time to Time to the said Sheriff immediately, who shall do therein, and make such Returns thereupon, as other Sheriffs of any other County not being County Palatine have heretofore used or might do.

"And be it further Declared, That this Ordinance, nor any Thing therein contained, is to be construed otherwise than by Way of Provision, until some further Course for settling of the said County Palatine of Duresme shall be taken by the Parliament; and that this Ordinance, nor any Thing therein contained, shall be of Force beyond One Year only next after the Date hereof, and no longer.

"And it is lastly Ordained and Declared, That as well the said Sheriff in the Execution of his said Place and Office, as also all other Officers and Persons that shall do any Thing by virtue or in Execution and Pursuance of this Ordinance, and of the Power therein contained, and according to the Direction of the same, shall be kept and indemnified by the Authority and Power of both Houses of Parliament."


  • 1. Deest in Originali.
  • 2. Deest in Originali.